Bus Eireann routes 109/109A Changes

redser77

The problem with the fuller buses from Navan might also be contributed to the fact that the buses in Kells have gone to the dogs so a lot of us in order to actually get to work on time are stuck taking the bus to Navan & change to either the 7.05 or 7.20 (dependent on what slow coach driver we have that morning).

There is supposed to be an overflow express to cover the Virginia-Carnaross-Kells route but it has stopped showing up. Not sure how true it is but I've heard reports that it's now full before Carnaross so it skips Kells leaving us to the mercy of the 6am "express" from Cavan which on any day can be full, nearly full or loads a room. But we won't know till it shows up approx 15 mins late at 7am in which case all other local express buses are gone for that hour so either way if you are on the wrong end of the queue you will be very late for work.

Part of the problem seems to relate to college students there is way way more of them commuting from my end this year - I'm not taking a dig at them but it's obviously linked to the crazy rental market in Dublin. We all predicted it would happen over the summer. I've emailed Bus Eireann but just got a long faffinf reply about demand. Will probably email the NTA also

I'm so fed up of this service that I'm seriously thinking of exchanging my monthly bus ticket to rail from the M3 Parkway & drive there daily as between the cost of the bus ticket (for a woeful service) weekly parking in Kells plus the additional bus fare in Dublin to get to work (I'm based out in Ballsbridge & going via Navan cuts it v fine so need to get out there pronto) then the Dart fare to get into Connolly to make the express evening bus that goes by the tunnel - I'm convinced that even with the fuel & tolls I'll actually save money

tom23

redser77 wrote: »

The problem with the fuller buses from Navan might also be contributed to the fact that the buses in Kells have gone to the dogs so a lot of us in order to actually get to work on time are stuck taking the bus to Navan & change to either the 7.05 or 7.20 (dependent on what slow coach driver we have that morning).

There is supposed to be an overflow express to cover the Virginia-Carnaross-Kells route but it has stopped showing up. Not sure how true it is but I've heard reports that it's now full before Carnaross so it skips Kells leaving us to the mercy of the 6am "express" from Cavan which on any day can be full, nearly full or loads a room. But we won't know till it shows up approx 15 mins late at 7am in which case all other local express buses are gone for that hour so either way if you are on the wrong end of the queue you will be very late for work.

Part of the problem seems to relate to college students there is way way more of them commuting from my end this year - I'm not taking a dig at them but it's obviously linked to the crazy rental market in Dublin. We all predicted it would happen over the summer. I've emailed Bus Eireann but just got a long faffinf reply about demand. Will probably email the NTA also

I'm so fed up of this service that I'm seriously thinking of exchanging my monthly bus ticket to rail from the M3 Parkway & drive there daily as between the cost of the bus ticket (for a woeful service) weekly parking in Kells plus the additional bus fare in Dublin to get to work (I'm based out in Ballsbridge & going via Navan cuts it v fine so need to get out there pronto) then the Dart fare to get into Connolly to make the express evening bus that goes by the tunnel - I'm convinced that even with the fuel & tolls I'll actually save money

A lot of this is on the money. There is a huge amount of Students taking the bus this year, more so in my twenty years commuting. As someone else pointed out there is a huge uptake in demand and like a lot of other things in this country the system breaks down very easily. Talk about breaking down there was a hairy moment on the 07:05 on the Navan Road where it stalled for a least 5 minutes. Those LD Buses are like a game of Russian Roulette. They need two staff, one for driver and holding the front door shut!

redser77

I was on that bus. Counted to 40 to avoid going nuts

munchkin_utd

lxflyer wrote: »

The problem is though, that such an operation would require payment of two fares, one for the bus and one for the train - which I suspect people are less likely to pay than pay for a direct bus.

If the combined Bus Eireann / Irish Rail ticket due to be launched on the Dublin / Mullingar route were to be extended to facilitate such a service, then that might change things. However, someone would have to pay for the bus to/from M3 Parkway and at the moment the State ain't increasing the subsidy.

didn't hear of the pilot scheme (ticketing aspect, but was aware the timetables were being inter-meshed) so looked it up.

Turns out that Navan or Trim is the same cost for Bus eireann services as Enfield, which has the following prices for the new fanged (but existing till recently as the Long hop???) tickets, which would be the fare you'd think applicable for Navan should ever integrated ticketing mean integrated ticketing! (and integrated services, which is another alien concept, but anyhow)

Iarnród Éireann only Bus Éireann only Integrated Bus Éireann / Iarnród Éireann tickets
Dublin /Enfield €2,100.00 €2,538.00 €2,664.90


from : http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Determination-No-1.pdf

LXFlyer

The tickets didn't launch last year after all.

There's more about it in this year's fare determination reports.

tom23

lxflyer wrote: »

The tickets didn't launch last year after all.

There's more about it in this year's fare determination reports.

Anyone know if the regular driver on the 07:20 private express is on holidays? This commuter is missing him! One does not realise how exceptional of a driver he is till he is absent.

tara83

The journey times in the evening are becoming a total joke. Nearly an hour and a half to Dunshaughlin

CVH24

tara83 wrote: »

The journey times in the evening are becoming a total joke. Nearly an hour and a half to Dunshaughlin

Why?
Where are the pinch points, it is crazy to be far, traffic seems to be up overall.

tara83

CVH24 wrote: »

Why?
Where are the pinch points, it is crazy to be far, traffic seems to be up overall.

It's taking around 40mins to get to the Halfway House, maybe 15 mins to cross the M50 queue from Auburn Ave turn, then delay up Blanch slip road and again up Clonee slip

CVH24

tara83 wrote: »

It's taking around 40mins to get to the Halfway House, maybe 15 mins to cross the M50 queue from Auburn Ave turn, then delay up Blanch slip road and again up Clonee slip

Does any one remember the timetable befor this current one? Any thoughts

The 109 Cavan used to go Port Tunnel, Airport, Blanchardstown and then usually express to kells, this fell due to people wanting it to serve the mater point and st. peters church.

Would it have been economic to undertake the route your bus did, in other words did pick up many between Busaras and Blanch?

munchkin_utd

CVH24 wrote: »

Does any one remember the timetable befor this current one? Any thoughts

The 109 Cavan used to go Port Tunnel, Airport, Blanchardstown and then usually express to kells, this fell due to people wanting it to serve the mater point and st. peters church.

Would it have been economic to undertake the route your bus did, in other words did pick up many between Busaras and Blanch?

from memory of comments here, there was very few picked up at the airport and busses lost plenty of time spinning around the place (possibly also through T2 building works) which in combination by the (non fare paying, non working, non commuting, non tax paying*) vulnerable needing services every 15minutes passing the matter hospital - everything was sent back by the Cabra road.

*- because pensioners are more important than working people when it comes to public transport in Ireland aparantly.

CVH24

Well I can understand where you are coming from but can people think of ways to try to keep all sides happy?

horseburger

CVH24 wrote: »

Well I can understand where you are coming from but can people think of ways to try to keep all sides happy?

Between May 2011 until October 2011, certain services on the 109 timetable from Navan stopped at the airport before going to the city centre.

It was not satisfactory for people from Navan going to Dublin City Centre because at certain times during the day the bus would be delayed very considerably after it left the airport going to the city centre, often along the quays heading down from between the Point Theatre heading towards Customs House Quay.

From 23rd October 2011, Bus Éireann improved both the 109 and 109A timetables as a result of feedback from customers.

http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1012&month=Oct

"Following customer feedback, Bus Éireann will introduce a number of improvements on its Route 109 Cavan-Dublin service, Route 109A DCU-Navan service, Route 187 Kells-Oldcastle service, Route 107 Dublin-Kingscourt service and its Route 108 Dublin-Bailieboro service on and from Sunday 23rd of October".

"Customers are advised that on route 109 Cavan-Dublin services to/from Cavan will no longer operate via Dublin Airport and the Port Tunnel. These services will now operate via the Navan Road and the Mater Hospital.
All weekday services to/from Cavan will now operate via Navan and then operate via the M3 Motorway to Dublin. This excludes the 6am and 7am ex Cavan and the 4.30pm and 5.30pm ex Dublin, which will not serve Navan offering customers quicker journey times."

"There will be a bus every 30 minutes from Dunshaughlin to Dublin during off peak times. Some off peak services to and from Navan will now operate via Johnstown Road and the Kentstown Road."

"Customers from Cavan and Virginia wishing to travel direct to Dublin Airport should take the Route 30 service or interchange with other Bus Éireann network services such as the Route 109A at Kells."

"On the route 109A service, customers should be aware that the route has been extended to Kells offering customers a wider network of services and providing a direct service to Dublin Airport and Dublin City University. Service frequency will remain the same."

"The number of services between Oldcastle and Kells on route 187 will be doubled with some changes in service times."

"Services will no longer operate direct to Dublin on route 107. The route 107 will now terminate at Navan. Customers travelling to Dublin will now have to change to the 109 service at Navan."

"The number of services between Kingscourt and Navan will be doubled offering customers more availability with a greater choice of services.
The number of services between Bailieboro and Kells on the route 108 service will remain the same, but there will be some changes in scheduled times."

“Bus Éireann is always looking at ways to improve our services and meet customer needs. Following local consultation and a review we decided to implement these changes on the M3 Corridor Routes. This will allow customers to enjoy the comfort and convenience of travelling by high-quality coaches without the worries and hassle of car parking, toll charges and fuel costs,” said Joe Kenny, Regional Manager East Bus Éireann.
All of these timetable changes are in response to local customer requests.
These changes have been sanctioned by the National Transport Authority (NTA)."

Customers on routes where alterations come into effect from Sunday the 23rd of October 2011 will be informed of the change to their service. Monday, 10th October, 2011,"

You will notice that I have highlighted the section of the document that states that Bus Éireann want people from Virginia and Cavan to use the number 30 bus to the airport.

By your logic, - of not being too concerned about inconveniencing a whole other section of bus users who are not going to Donegal or Ballyshannon - if they get a return ticket on the 30 bus from Virginia or Cavan to the airport, that on the way home they should be satisfied with taking the 109A to Kells instead, on the way home from the airport, in cases where there are more passengers for Donegal waiting at the airport for the next 30 bus to Donegal.

AlekSmart

munchkin_utd wrote: »

from memory of comments here, there was very few picked up at the airport and buses lost plenty of time spinning around the place (possibly also through T2 building works) which in combination by the (non fare paying, non working, non commuting, non tax paying*) vulnerable needing services every 15minutes passing the Mater hospital - everything was sent back by the Cabra road.

*- because pensioners are more important than working people when it comes to public transport in Ireland aparantly.

DO bear in mind,munchkin,that persons of Pensionable Age make up less than 50% of the c.748,000 Free Travel Scheme members.

The 109 issue continues to be Irish Public Transport policy in microcosm...."Never quite sure what it's role is"

CVH24

In the past Horseburger, you seemed to think I want to inconvenience people I do not, I want people to have alternative, choice and above all the freedom to move to where they need to when they need to.

109A to kells and onward 109 is far from satisfactory in it current form, in fact it could be slower than the next 30 to virginia. If there was joined up thinking of allowing a connection from 109A to a reliable 109 it would offer the alternative for people to Virginia and cavan, not the first choice during period of unexpected peak loading. It would also be joined up so people from like Ashbourne can connect with buses to Cavan in kells.

Also then virginia and cavan passengers can at peak periods only offered an alternative to go via kells on 109A, with a proper bus shelter and a minimal wait, this way no passengers have to wait, two hours. some passengers would be asked to delay by 20-30 minutes in the warmth of a bus instead of at a cold airport bus stop.

horseburger

CVH24 wrote: »

In the past Horseburger, you seemed to think I want to inconvenience people I do not, I want people to have alternative, choice and above all the freedom to move to where they need to when they need to.

But you still wouldn't mind, if, in order to get home from Bus Aras, if Cavan and Virginia passengers had to pay a higher fare on the 30 bus which would pretty much equal the price of the fares from Bus Aras to Donegal, on the same bus, even though Cavan is halfway along the route.

It would seem that you don't consider forcing people to pay extra for a ticket from Bus Aras to Virginia and Cavan on the 30 bus - in order to make them use the 109 - as being an inconvenience.

CVH24

Horse Burger are we talking at 1530 or midnight?

But where i moved to was build a viable alternative and then give people choice in which they use. But they may pay for that choice. Its the model almost all ticketing schemes are based, you use price to to reduce demand, usually during peak times, its using a carrot not a stick.

But generally speaking midnight is not a problem, during the peak daytime is different, but if BE do not load 30 with virginia and cavan, then at present they on have the really slow 109 which is a poor alternative, if it was a stronger product then we would have a better system for all.

We are not taking about just cavan and virginia, the 109 poorly serves nearly all its towns due to being slow and with poor timekeeping due to route.

When 109 went to the airport and then Blanchardstown can anyone guess the time given to do that stretch?

Commuter109

CVH24 wrote: »

Horse Burger are we talking at 1530 or midnight?


We are not taking about just cavan and virginia, the 109 poorly serves nearly all its towns due to being slow and with poor timekeeping due to route.

Was refused entry to the 6.30 express yesterday at 6.24, as it was full. This is starting to happen all too frequently again on the express services. You have 40 people queing for the express service, with 7 or 8 in the queue for the slow coach at the same time. But obviously the penny isnt dropping with BE. Even one extra express in the peak time mornings and evenings slots would be a huge help

CVH24

Commuter109 wrote: »

Was refused entry to the 6.30 express yesterday at 6.24, as it was full. This is starting to happen all too frequently again on the express services. You have 40 people queing for the express service, with 7 or 8 in the queue for the slow coach at the same time. But obviously the penny isnt dropping with BE. Even one extra express in the peak time mornings and evenings slots would be a huge help

what size bus was on the 1830 express? Double decker would help say instead of 1845 slow bus, it could be okay for smaller bus.

Vic_08

Commuter109 wrote: »

Was refused entry to the 6.30 express yesterday at 6.24, as it was full. This is starting to happen all too frequently again on the express services. You have 40 people queing for the express service, with 7 or 8 in the queue for the slow coach at the same time. But obviously the penny isnt dropping with BE. Even one extra express in the peak time mornings and evenings slots would be a huge help

I am not sure who you think the penny is supposed to drop with. Like I have said here before the frontline staff, drivers and inspectors, are well aware of the situation it but are powerless to do anything. There is little to no structured internal feedback to those who are in a position to change services and with the NTA now calling the shots there is an extra layer of useless pen-pushers who have no clue how the services actually operate.

I have watched as one of the regular 109 drivers cornered the manager in Broadstone who draws up the timetables telling him to take the route out of the shopping centre and Clonee as well as run more peak services away from the Cabra/Navan road traffic jam. They have zero respect for drivers and ignore our opinions on such matters as they think they know better.

The truth is that lobbying management for service improvements is not high on the priority for driver grades, there are so many other issues needing sorting from jobs being lost over route tendering to safety issues that have been ongoing for years. More clued-in staff are aware that the company providing a better service to customers is central to the long term viability of it but there are only so many things you can smash your head against a brick wall about at the same time and immediate concerns such as having a job in 6 months or safety issues will always get priority.

My point is that moaning to drivers or inspectors in Busaras or on here is not going to do anything about the situation because the Bus Eireann senior managers and NTA apparatchiks in their nice offices do not have a clue and they aren't going to do anything on the advice of drivers, in fact I'd wager they are all congratulating themselves because numbers are up this year with more college students commuting.

The only way to get any change is to force it. Sstick the oar in with BE and NTA officials and make some waves. Get your TDs on to them. Get a journalist to do a story (put upon celtic tiger commuter in negative equity being forced to spend 3 hours a day commuting while motorway and port tunnel are being ignored, etc) Print out complaint letters and distribute them to other commuters to sign and forward so they are not getting one or two complaints but dozens.

Ultimately you are the majority, daily commuters paying high fares to commute from Navan, Dunshaughlin and Kells to the City Centre make up the vast majority of passengers and revenue payers on the 109 but it is up to you to make people take notice. The FT brigade that you are subsidising with your fares did when the Cavans were diverted away from the Mater.

CVH24

Well said Vic_08!!!!

Commuter109

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2014/11/20/4033915-cllr-criticises-bus-ireann-over-route-changes/

tara83

Only positive in that article is the possible review for march 2015.

CVH24

Must agree a review is good news as long as its listens to majority, those wanting express services but a way could and should be found to serve Dunboyne, it used to be served but not by every bus just occasional morning and evening, I remember the 1000 to Kells did serve it.

Not sure about the Hospital, as to what the access is like for a bus!

Places need to be served but not by every bus, its just crazy!!

tom23

Commuter109 wrote: »

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2014/11/20/4033915-cllr-criticises-bus-ireann-over-route-changes/

Jesus wept (and do did most of the hard pressed commuters, well this one did) lets reroute all of the 109 into hospital just in case aunt Mary might need to go there. Sure while we are at lets stop at the McDonald's drive thru, clearly another subject matter (apart from water) that fine Gael know very little about. Sure it only takes 90 minutes sure what's another 5/10 amongst friends?

AlekSmart

CVH24 wrote: »

Must agree a review is good news as long as its listens to majority, those wanting express services but a way could and should be found to serve Dunboyne, it used to be served but not by every bus just occasional morning and evening, I remember the 1000 to Kells did serve it.

Not sure about the Hospital, as to what the access is like for a bus!

Places need to be served but not by every bus, its just crazy!!

I'd be inclined to lure Bus Eireann and Bus Atha Cliath management into a room and lock the door behind them until they came up with a plan which saw Bus Atha Cliath take over Dunboyne,Dunshaughlin,Clonee responsibilities and Bus Eireann get back to what it should be doing,operating an efficient Inter-Urban commuter coach service.

That damn Port Tunnel may as well never have been dug,such is the enthusiasm with which it is ignored by the company.

The abiding position within some sectors of the two CIE companies,is Fear of Change,with a solid preference for keeping things as they always were.....In this strange netherworld,the M3 does not exist,along with the Port Tunnel and various other modern day elements between Dublin & Cavan !!

CVH24

The major problem with the route, and i think it must be the worst route into and out of the city with lost of pinch points and lack of bus priority!!

tara83

CVH24 wrote: »

The major problem with the route, and i think it must be the worst route into and out of the city with lost of pinch points and lack of bus priority!!

It doesn't help which is way the route needs to be re-examined and stop making it worst with the most convoluted route ever.

CVH24

tara83 wrote: »

It doesn't help which is way the route needs to be re-examined and stop making it worst with the most convoluted route ever.

Well where i was coming from is the point that it follows the cabra road and out by the halfway house, after that i guess it is not too bad and should be free following, so if it needs to continue to follow the route full of pinch points then the only other feasible route is out the port tunnel with express services, say 50-50.

While the route is long its the traffic that causes the long delays, so a reroute is the only logical step to avoid the pinch points and see an improvement in timekeeping..

gazzer

Does anybody know if the 109A that leaves Kells for the Airport waits for the 109 from Cavan to arrive so that passengers going to the airport can get on that bus?

The reason I ask is that from looking at the timetable for the 109A the planners of the timetable seem to think that it only takes 45 minutes for the 109 to get from Cavan to Kells. That has never happened in any of the bus trips I have taken on the 109. It is at least a 55 minute journey.

I have to be at the airport for 3.15 on Monday afternoon. Had hoped to get the 30 from Cavan to Dublin Airport but chances are that will be full up and we will be asked to get the 109. However if I get the 1pm 109 that wont get me to Kells till about 2. That will mean that the 1.50 109 will have already left and so I will have to either

Stay on the 109 and get into O'Connell Street for between 3.10 and 3.30 and then get a taxi to the airport or

Wait for the 109a at 2.50 and get to the airport for 4.30.

Anybody get this combination of buses and could tell me what the best approach would be?

Thanks