Bus Eireann routes 109/109A Changes

Furp

horseburger wrote: »

The 6.20am 109 from Navan, starts in Kells at 6am.

It is the second 109 service Monday-Friday. The first leaves Kells at 5.30am and is scheduled to pick up at Navan Market Square at 5.50am.

I understand I have been getting the 109 for almost a year now at the same time and have not seen it so full before by the time it got to Dunshaughlan.

tom23

Furp wrote: »

I understand I have been getting the 109 for almost a year now at the same time and have not seen it so full before by the time it got to Dunshaughlan.

There's an increase in people using the bus especially since the colleges are back. You'll probably notice a slight drop in the mid term. The 07:05 is full leaving navan most days, same with the 07:20. The 07:20 is always full as the driver and the bus are top class.

Furp

tom23 wrote: »

There's an increase in people using the bus especially since the colleges are back. You'll probably notice a slight drop in the mid term. The 07:05 is full leaving navan most days, same with the 07:20. The 07:20 is always full as the driver and the bus are top class.

We should try to get boards.ie users some badges so we can give a hat tip to each other as we board.

Meathman12

Furp wrote: »

Yesterday and this morning the 109 6.20 that Arrives in Navan already had a lot of people on it and by the time it got to Dunshaughlin it couldn't take on any more passengers.

There seemed to be more people getting on in Navan than the usual crowd, wonder if any of the earlier buses didn't show.

The Tuesday morning 109 leaving NAvan was particularly full because the 550 didnt arrive.

tom23

It's been a long long time since I seen bus eireann this busy. Wonder is it back to bore 2007 when you had the fear that a bus would come but you would not get a seat? Anyone feel the same?

AlekSmart

tom23 wrote: »

It's been a long long time since I seen bus eireann this busy. Wonder is it back to bore 2007 when you had the fear that a bus would come but you would not get a seat? Anyone feel the same?

Significant capacity problems on both BAC and BE routes,all exascerbated by the fleet/staff reductions over the past 6 years.

The speed of the upturn has left all the various planners,schedulers,and consultants visibly goldfishing,as both Staff,Vehicles and Support Structures are proving expensive to restore.

Since 2008,the arrival of EU mandated Proffessional Competency requirements for Drivers and the significantly higher Vehicle Inspection and Maintenance requirements make it a far more difficult market sector to enter.

Gone are the days when a Lad could get an oul second-hand coach from the UK,hire a local handy Young Fellah with a D licence, and trundle off on a School Run to get started in the business....NOT possible in 2014.

Both Ireland and the UK are already experiencing a serious shortage of Qualified Drivers,with none of the regulatory agencies being prepared to relax their respective standards,or come forward with proposals to facilitate or assist the Country's fragile economic improvement.

The main point to remember is that ALL of these various agencies,RSA,NTA,HSA,ADI et al,have their own administrative structures to justify and support...none of these Chief Executives come cheap ....;)

munchkin_utd

slight tangent, but how is the (just like the 109, government subsidised and CIE ran) "Navan Rail Line" doing at the moment?

The last I heard the trains were half empty, meaning one solution for lack of capacity in public transport from Navan to Dublin would be to have Navan commuters be shuttled the shorter and congestion free distance to M3 Parkway and continue their journey then by rail.
If some of the busses arent going to the city centre then they can make more runs, meaning you move more people with less busses.

AlekSmart

munchkin_utd wrote: »

slight tangent, but how is the (just like the 109, government subsidised and CIE ran) "Navan Rail Line" doing at the moment?

The last I heard the trains were half empty, meaning one solution for lack of capacity in public transport from Navan to Dublin would be to have Navan commuters be shuttled the shorter and congestion free distance to M3 Parkway and continue their journey then by rail.
If some of the busses arent going to the city centre then they can make more runs, meaning you move more people with less busses.

Sounds a great idea,almost Continental in outlook....I wonder why it has'nt been attempted since the Line Opened ?

Andru93

AlekSmart wrote: »

Sounds a great idea,almost Continental in outlook....I wonder why it has'nt been attempted since the Line Opened ?

It has been done with 111 (Trim route) it stops there several times a day but no one uses it.

Furp

When I initially started looking at getting the bus to Dublin after my stint of work in the UK, I thought it would be the most efficient way to get to my place or work, BUS from Navan and then train, I couldn't find such a route I Contacted Bus Eireann whom suggested that I get a Bus from Navan to Trim and then to the M3 Parkway rail station. It is ridiculous it would seem to make a lot of the sense the Bus could make good time just getting people to the train station and then there would also be an upturn in business on the train, I suspect through they see the train as competition rather then as a means to get people to their destination more efficiently.

munchkin_utd

Andru93 wrote: »

It has been done with 111 (Trim route) it stops there several times a day but no one uses it.

seems to be down to a single service per day now.

but that shows how not to do it.
If the ticket for the bus is not valid for the train, and the nice warm dry bus continues to the city centre anyhow, then why on earth should anyone bother switching?
And on the way home, its worse as you cant tell when the bus will arrive to collect you at M3Parkway to bring you to Trim as its stuck in trafic somewhere on the way out of the city centre.

What you need is an exclusive rail shuttle with common ticketing for a trunkated 109 rail shuttle+(subsidised)rail piched at the same price as the (subsidised)bus all the way to the city currently is.

theres need for more "seats" to Dublin it seems, but how many busses will you need if each bus needs to spend 90minutes to get to the city, and then an hour back - meaning theres only 1 rush hour run from Navan to Dublin per new bus?
Alternatively (as a random example with times that'd need to be shored up for plausibility), your bus can leave Navan at 6am arriving at 6.30, in plenty of time for the 6.50 departure from M3 parkway. Its back in Navan ready for a 7.20 departure, arriving at M3 at 7.50, in time for the 8.10 departure, and you could get a third run at 8.10am from Navan all going well.

So a relief bus with 50seats gets 150 people to Dublin during rush hour if it acts as a rail shuttle, whereas if it goes to the city it does one run with 50 people and thats it till the evening rush hour essentially.
(and you need 3 subsidised relief cummuter busses for every 1 subsidised rail shuttle)

Commuter109

How long is that trip on train from Dunboyne into town?

Agree with Tom that volumes are on the increase. 7.20 non BE express full and left the square before 7.20 yesterday, 5.30 full yesterday evening and I'm pretty sure people were refused . The positives being hopefully its a sign that more people are back working etc..

ArdBoyne stop seemed a mess this morning, had to be at least 80 people waiting when the 7.20 arrived. not sure if it was a case that the 7.05 was a no show?

Furp

I believe its 30 minutes to the dockland station there are also trains that interchange at Pearse and Tara.

There was also an argument about a ticket this morning on the 6.35 from Navan, when we got to Dunshauglin the driver had an argument with a passenger on the very full bus and then came up stairs and announced to everyone we not going anywhere until the passenger paid and that the Guards were called, (not a very good way of handling the situation) the same driver also has no problem letting his buddies on without even checking tickets. so we sat there for about 10-15 minutes before the issue was resolved.

LXFlyer

Commuter109 wrote: »

How long is that trip on train from Dunboyne into town?

Agree with Tom that volumes are on the increase. 7.20 non BE express full and left the square before 7.20 yesterday, 5.30 full yesterday evening and I'm pretty sure people were refused . The positives being hopefully its a sign that more people are back working etc..

ArdBoyne stop seemed a mess this morning, had to be at least 80 people waiting when the 7.20 arrived. not sure if it was a case that the 7.05 was a no show?

Rail timetable is here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/14-dublinm3parkwaylongford2806131.pdf?v=gchdcpy

tom23

Furp wrote: »

I believe its 30 minutes to the dockland station there are also trains that interchange at Pearse and Tara.

There was also an argument about a ticket this morning on the 6.35 from Navan, when we got to Dunshauglin the driver had an argument with a passenger on the very full bus and then came up stairs and announced to everyone we not going anywhere until the passenger paid and that the Guards were called, (not a very good way of handling the situation) the same driver also has no problem letting his buddies on without even checking tickets. so we sat there for about 10-15 minutes before the issue was resolved.

Not looking to witch hunt here but is that a young(esh) driver with brown hair? I witnessed another incident similar before and felt the driver handed it very badly and was in fact quite confrontational, in the end he refused to budge till the passenger who was disputing the ticket got of. It took ten minutes and I can tell you I was furious with the driver.

tom23

Furp wrote: »

I believe its 30 minutes to the dockland station there are also trains that interchange at Pearse and Tara.

There was also an argument about a ticket this morning on the 6.35 from Navan, when we got to Dunshauglin the driver had an argument with a passenger on the very full bus and then came up stairs and announced to everyone we not going anywhere until the passenger paid and that the Guards were called, (not a very good way of handling the situation) the same driver also has no problem letting his buddies on without even checking tickets. so we sat there for about 10-15 minutes before the issue was resolved.

Complain to the NTA and Bus Eireann. The only way situations like this can be better handled. It snot nice been held to ransom like that regardless of who is in the right. As said I don't want to witch hunt but that particular driver was involved in a similar incident and it was very frustrating. I have witnessed other BE drivers handle the same situation with much better results.

Fiskar

Commuter109 wrote: »

How long is that trip on train from Dunboyne into town?

Agree with Tom that volumes are on the increase. 7.20 non BE express full and left the square before 7.20 yesterday, 5.30 full yesterday evening and I'm pretty sure people were refused . The positives being hopefully its a sign that more people are back working etc..

ArdBoyne stop seemed a mess this morning, had to be at least 80 people waiting when the 7.20 arrived. not sure if it was a case that the 7.05 was a no show?

We leave Navan at 7, get the 7.40 at M3 Parkway and arrive Docklands art 8.20. Am up in Baggott street by 8.35am

wavehopper1

No heating today on the 7:05 Express. Cold air continued to blow from the air conditioning - the driver said he couldn't turn it off.
The most expensive 1 hour journey undertaken inside a fridge.
I would say 20% of the passengers will go down with colds this week.

tara83

Waited over 40mins for a bus this morning and at that had to stand. It left easily 40 people behind in Dunshaughlin. Traffic in the evenings getting very heavy. Going down the Navan Rd is so frustrating. Dunshaughlin commuters need to be given the option of an express route.

Fiskar

tara83 wrote: »

Waited over 40mins for a bus this morning and at that had to stand. It left easily 40 people behind in Dunshaughlin. Traffic in the evenings getting very heavy. Going down the Navan Rd is so frustrating. Dunshaughlin commuters need to be given the option of an express route.

I really don't understand why someone living in Dunshaughlin and experiencing these service issues does not go up to the M3 Parkway and avail of the train. It far closer to you than to others living in Navan.

LXFlyer

Fiskar wrote: »

I really don't understand why someone living in Dunshaughlin and experiencing these service issues does not go up to the M3 Parkway and avail of the train. It far closer to you than to others living in Navan.

Maybe they don't have a car?


We don't all drive you know!!

munchkin_utd

Fiskar wrote: »

I really don't understand why someone living in Dunshaughlin and experiencing these service issues does not go up to the M3 Parkway and avail of the train. It far closer to you than to others living in Navan.

indeed, and ANOTHER example of completely non joined up thinking.
When (if) the Navan rail link is opened then there'll be a need for some sort of shuttle service from Dunshauglin to Dunshaughlin station which will be nowhere near the town, so why couldnt a shuttle be set up now to the current rail head.

and..... if a single 109 bus was taken from Navan duty and dedicated to getting Dunshauglin folks to the rail station, then that single bus could make it over and back in 20 minutes meaning Dunshaughlin commuters would have a connection to every train leaving M3parkway every half hour.
Also, if the bus going the short distance to M3Parkway was one which allowed standees, then realistically you shouldnt ever leave anyone behind at Dunshaughlin.

But still, that 1 (subsidised) bus "taken" from Navan serving Dunshaughlin exclusively as a rail shuttle would provide 50 x 6 morning citybound seats = 300 people from Dunshauglin to the city centre on a single bus and 300 less people needed to be fitted on a bus coming from Navan which needs to be half empty leaving Navan in order to have seats for dunshaughlin passengers.

LXFlyer

munchkin_utd wrote: »

indeed, and ANOTHER example of completely non joined up thinking.
When (if) the Navan rail link is opened then there'll be a need for some sort of shuttle service from Dunshauglin to Dunshaughlin station which will be nowhere near the town, so why couldnt a shuttle be set up now to the current rail head.

and..... if a single 109 bus was taken from Navan duty and dedicated to getting Dunshauglin folks to the rail station, then that single bus could make it over and back in 20 minutes meaning Dunshaughlin commuters would have a connection to every train leaving M3parkway every half hour.
Also, if the bus going the short distance to M3Parkway was one which allowed standees, then realistically you shouldnt ever leave anyone behind at Dunshaughlin.

But still, that 1 (subsidised) bus "taken" from Navan serving Dunshaughlin exclusively as a rail shuttle would provide 50 x 6 morning citybound seats = 300 people from Dunshauglin to the city centre on a single bus and 300 less people needed to be fitted on a bus coming from Navan which needs to be half empty leaving Navan in order to have seats for dunshaughlin passengers.

The problem is though, that such an operation would require payment of two fares, one for the bus and one for the train - which I suspect people are less likely to pay than pay for a direct bus.

If the combined Bus Eireann / Irish Rail ticket due to be launched on the Dublin / Mullingar route were to be extended to facilitate such a service, then that might change things. However, someone would have to pay for the bus to/from M3 Parkway and at the moment the State ain't increasing the subsidy.

tom23

tara83 wrote: »

Waited over 40mins for a bus this morning and at that had to stand. It left easily 40 people behind in Dunshaughlin. Traffic in the evenings getting very heavy. Going down the Navan Rd is so frustrating. Dunshaughlin commuters need to be given the option of an express route.

To be honest I don't think there is a lot of scope for an express route to Dunshaughlin. For a town its size it has more stops than navan but an express would just not work.

The problem is that bus eireann to blanch for any of the 109's is a disaster.

sofireland

Furp wrote: »

I believe its 30 minutes to the dockland station there are also trains that interchange at Pearse and Tara.

There was also an argument about a ticket this morning on the 6.35 from Navan, when we got to Dunshauglin the driver had an argument with a passenger on the very full bus and then came up stairs and announced to everyone we not going anywhere until the passenger paid and that the Guards were called, (not a very good way of handling the situation) the same driver also has no problem letting his buddies on without even checking tickets. so we sat there for about 10-15 minutes before the issue was resolved.

He has form shall we say.
I only heard half of it, but wasn't the issue the lady in question didn't pay the full fare? What gives them the right to not pay the fare and expect passage? I'd say she got some choice comments upstairs then she came down stairs. I was meant to be in town this am for an 8am meeting was nearly 20 minutes late as a result.

What i don't understand is why if they run the two buses @ 705 & 720 that they just stagger em to have one start at square and depart at the time if not already full and the other at the Ardboyne.

Fiskar

sofireland wrote: »

He has form shall we say.
I only heard half of it, but wasn't the issue the lady in question didn't pay the full fare? What gives them the right to not pay the fare and expect passage? I'd say she got some choice comments upstairs then she came down stairs. I was meant to be in town this am for an 8am meeting was nearly 20 minutes late as a result.

What i don't understand is why if they run the two buses @ 705 & 720 that they just stagger em to have one start at square and depart at the time if not already full and the other at the Ardboyne.

Probably the same driver that I complained about for doing same to a school going kid at the Ardboyne one morning over a year ago.

In all fairness when you look at the cost of the annual ticket at what €2,700 (before tax saver) it is a piss poor service for a high cost point to point ticket. I cancelled mine after 7 months and take the train (short hop to anywhere, no restrictions) for an annual cost of 1250 (before tax saver).
My sanity is restored for doing it and i can guarantee being home or in work to the nearest 5 mins. That is one thing you can never do with the 109.

tom23

Fiskar wrote: »

Probably the same driver that I complained about for doing same to a school going kid at the Ardboyne one morning over a year ago.

In all fairness when you look at the cost of the annual ticket at what €2,700 (before tax saver) it is a piss poor service for a high cost point to point ticket. I cancelled mine after 7 months and take the train (short hop to anywhere, no restrictions) for an annual cost of 1250 (before tax saver).
My sanity is restored for doing it and i can guarantee being home or in work to the nearest 5 mins. That is one thing you can never do with the 109.

Yeah that's the guy and that's the incident. Yes as mentioned that's the driver, in fact he is very aggressive and comfontational. Compared to some of the excellent BE drivers one scratches ones head as to how?

sofireland

Fiskar wrote: »

Probably the same driver that I complained about for doing same to a school going kid at the Ardboyne one morning over a year ago.

In all fairness when you look at the cost of the annual ticket at what €2,700 (before tax saver) it is a piss poor service for a high cost point to point ticket. I cancelled mine after 7 months and take the train (short hop to anywhere, no restrictions) for an annual cost of 1250 (before tax saver).
My sanity is restored for doing it and i can guarantee being home or in work to the nearest 5 mins. That is one thing you can never do with the 109.

Fact is Docklands doesn't suit me, and driving in and out as far as park way doesn't work for me. But i'm glad you've found a solution for you

munchkin_utd

lxflyer wrote: »

The problem is though, that such an operation would require payment of two fares, one for the bus and one for the train - which I suspect people are less likely to pay than pay for a direct bus.

If the combined Bus Eireann / Irish Rail ticket due to be launched on the Dublin / Mullingar route were to be extended to facilitate such a service, then that might change things. However, someone would have to pay for the bus to/from M3 Parkway and at the moment the State ain't increasing the subsidy.

100%
If commuter bus and rail tickets aren't interchangeable then bus and rail commuter journeys aren't interchangeable - as they should be -
especially in the case of highly subsidised rail with parallel subsidised bus routes,
especially when both are semi state ran by the same company,
especially when the busses are struggling for capacity and the trains not so, especially when that particular bus route has to be one of the worst for getting stuck in traffic.

tara83

sofireland wrote: »

Fact is Docklands doesn't suit me, and driving in and out as far as park way doesn't work for me. But i'm glad you've found a solution for you

I'm the same, there isn't the same amount of trains and times aren't as convenient. The ideal solution would be as people have mentioned a flexi ticket that allowed travel on either it which case I would vary my mode of transport depending on schedules, time of year etc