‘OCCUPY Wall Street’ protestors on Dame Street

Bannasidhe

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Outside the Dail


If you are going to protest outside the Central bank (who are merely puppets to the ECB anyways) then at least protest about them not doing their job in past, and nothing being done about them not doing their job, and nothing being put in place to prevent them not doing their job again.

There is an open mic at the protest In Dame Street. Your view is valid and you have the right (and by this point I would go so far as to say duty) to express it.
Go and stand by your convictions - have your say. Call for those responsible to be brought to account. Call for procedures to be put in place to properly regulate the financial sector. You will find many, many people will agree with you.

Its all well and good to state here that the protest is misguided - but if you (by 'you' I mean generic 'one' - not you personally ) are not prepared to add your voice and urge a direction....

Bannasidhe

meglome wrote: »

Interestingly I agree with most of what you said there. However the stated aims of the protest, clearly set out in their 4 points (plan?!?!), are not what you just stated. So if you're asking me should we protest about most of the things in your post then yes we should. If you're asking me to support a protest that is chasing unrealistic and/or imaginary things then no sorry.... pointless.

Those 'demands' are not written in stone. They are not a manifesto. They are the demands of people who have at least had the courage to make some demands. Yes, they are vague and aspirational (and a bit too new age/hippy for my tastes). That will not prevent me from adding my voice - with my 'demands'. In fact, I would go so far as to say now I must add my voice and strive to bring a more focused and practical list to the fore. I know I am not alone.

My motivation is not what is on a ' 4 point plan' - my motivation is the continuing existence of the same-oh crap as we always had. If I don't stand up and say that - what right have I complain when that same-oh is still with us in 20/30/40 years?

Bannasidhe

One man's report from Dame St.

It started at 2pm with barely thirty people, by five pm there were maybe a hundred and fifty, and still at midnight there were at least a hundred folks and ten tents. By 4am when we left there were half a dozen more tents and a marquee hosting a consensus decision making mini-assembly - did I mention this was at 4am ! This was certainly not the largest protest to grace the streets of Dublin, but without doubt I have never seen its like here before. There were veterans of many marches and folks for whom this was their first act of political defiance, and everything came together organically with no leaders, no parties, no egos and no power-tripping. There were no spokespeople and yet everyone was a spokesperson, there was no single message yet at times everyone managed to literally speak with one voice. There was anger but no violence, discontent but no apathy and despite the gravity of the injustices highlighted, the day itself was one of unrelenting positivity. It was quite simply a perfect example of how things could be.

Even the drumming circle failed to spoil my mood.


...For such a random mix of folks from differing backgrounds with different motivations, it was amazing to see how fast consensus was reached on a wide range of issues, and more inspiring to see how disagreements were overcome. One good quote to come from the assembly was that #OccupyDameStreet is a political movement, but not a party political movement, the sense being that any movement by the people is by default political (small 'p'), even if it exists outside the structures of the Political (large 'p') system.

... - the camp has adopted a policy of strict non-interference with the Bank and its employees; only time will tell if the Central Bank reciprocates.

...The primary thing to keep in your mind at all times about #OccupyDameStreet, and the #Occupy movement in general, is that it is a peaceful movement dedicated to non-violent resistance, to the point that the notion of leaving immediately if challenged by the gardai was discussed.

...One aspect of #OccupyDameStreet and the #Occupy movement in general that seemed to mystify the meeja was the fact that it is both leaderless and, on the face of it, has rather nebulous goals. The fact that it is a political movement outside the party political system means that it has a broad appeal, and the folks involved come from a wide range of backgrounds with an even wider range of reasons for talking part, all united by the desire to stand up and say 'Enough is enough" to their political and economic masters. But still journalist after journalist asked: "Who started this? Who is in charge? What are you hoping to accomplish?" While the first question is irrelevant, and the second is easy (nobody and everybody), the third is a little trickier to answer. I am there because I am tired of decisions being taken by those with political and economic authority on behalf of the richest 1% in this country (and the world). Politicians are elected by the people, and should represent the People, the 99%, and not the economic elite and certainly not corporations. The recent election changed nothing except who sits where in the Dáil, the policies being pursued are unchanged, the interaction with the IMF is unchanged, and the lack of accountability of those who destroyed our economy and bankrupted the State is unchanged. I do not think that by campaigning outside the Central Bank the walls of capitalism are going to come tumbling down, I do not think that the spirit of '68 will seize the country and we'll all go marching down Kildare Street arm in arm, and I do not think that a single banker will develop an urge to go home and rethink their life, but what I do hope is that as the elected representatives of the people sit and draw up the Budget, they will see the crowds and hear the outrage, and maybe, just maybe, will remember who they are accountable to and what they were elected into office for.

http://www.politico.ie/crisisjam/7954-support-the-99-protesters-occupy-dublins-dame-street.html

Permabear

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Riskymove

Permabear wrote: »

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TBH I think its just a matter of intrepetation of 'freedom'

it wasn't necessarily 'freedom for the people to do whatever they want'

indeed it rarely is, there are many cases of overthowing rule only to bring in a strict new rule

Permabear

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Riskymove

Permabear wrote: »

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that is not what I am saying

fighting for 'freedom' - in this case from rule by a different country - does not necessarily have anything to do with being liberal or conservative or anything else or even being in favour of any personal freedoms

they were not fighting for the introduction of liberalism

FreudianSlippers

Permabear wrote: »

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Just wanted to point out that this valid point was glossed over and nobody "protesting" decided to answer it; so I'll give it a little bump

20Cent

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Just wanted to point out that this valid point was glossed over and nobody "protesting" decided to answer it; so I'll give it a little bump

It makes some assumptions that aren't necessarily true:
That getting the troika out of Irish affairs would result in them terminating all support for the Irish economy. Or that the Irish economy needs or wants support from the Troika.

FreudianSlippers

20Cent wrote: »

It makes some assumptions that aren't necessarily true:
That getting the troika out of Irish affairs would result in them terminating all support for the Irish economy. Or that the Irish economy needs or wants support from the Troika.

That's not the question.

The question is clearly: What do you think would be the repercussions if the IMF, ECB, and EU suddenly terminated all support for the Irish economy?

Where does Ireland get the money necessary to "keep the lights on"?
What do we do with the money that the EU has already given us?

Permabear

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20Cent

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

That's not the question.

The question is clearly: What do you think would be the repercussions if the IMF, ECB, and EU suddenly terminated all support for the Irish economy?

Where does Ireland get the money necessary to "keep the lights on"?
What do we do with the money that the EU has already given us?

Using some highly unlikely hypothetical situation to attack an actual achievable demand of the protesters makes you sound much crazier then them.
If the IMF, ECB, and EU suddenly terminated all support for the Irish economy then I'd imagine that the whole of the Eurozone was ending so we'd have to get printing our own currency.Also that they didn't want any of the money they have lent us back.

FreudianSlippers

20Cent wrote: »

Using some highly unlikely hypothetical situation to attack an actual achievable demand of the protesters makes you sound much crazier then them.
If the IMF, ECB, and EU suddenly terminated all support for the Irish economy then I'd imagine that the whole of the Eurozone was ending so we'd have to get printing our own currency.Also that they didn't want any of the money they have lent us back.

What on Earth are you talking about? I'm not the one sleeping in the streets saying EU/IMF out.

It's not my "highly unlikely hypothetical situation", it's yours.

20Cent

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

What on Earth are you talking about? I'm not the one sleeping in the streets saying EU/IMF out.

It's not my "highly unlikely hypothetical situation", it's yours.

I see where the confusion is. You take getting the troika out of Irish affairs as meaning all their loans etc whereas I took it to mean to stop their dictating to the gov about where to make cuts and how much to cut and forcing us to pay private debt.

FionnK86

Im a student and Id rather just get the head down for the next year instead of protesting...I think the "occupy Dame Street" all around Newbridge was stupid...get your own protesters from the city.. half of us dont know where Dame Street is:P

FreudianSlippers

20Cent wrote: »

I see where the confusion is. You take getting the troika out of Irish affairs as meaning all their loans etc whereas I took it to mean to stop their dictating to the gov about where to make cuts and how much to cut and forcing us to pay private debt.

So you think they're just going to loan the money unconditionally then?
I don't see Troika forcing us to pay private debt either.

Permabear

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Dr Galen

20Cent wrote: »

I see where the confusion is. You take getting the troika out of Irish affairs as meaning all their loans etc whereas I took it to mean to stop their dictating to the gov about where to make cuts and how much to cut and forcing us to pay private debt.

The organgrinder usually controls the monkey in fairness

FionnK86

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Its worse than that @Permabear

They are blaming the financial sector when the should be directing their anger at politicians,
it was politicians who decided on regulation issues,
it was politicians who moved the world financial system of gold standard,
it was politicians who got to influence central bank to flood the world with cheap money,
it was politicians who decided to bailout banks instead of letting the rotten apples fall

IT WAS US WHO VOTED FOR THEM!Since 1921 in Dail Eireann, if you didnt agree with their policies vote against them, if they were still in government then you obviously aren't in the majority.Its democracy.The worst form of government apart from all the others:)

Permabear

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Scofflaw

20Cent wrote: »

I see where the confusion is. You take getting the troika out of Irish affairs as meaning all their loans etc whereas I took it to mean to stop their dictating to the gov about where to make cuts and how much to cut and forcing us to pay private debt.

Give us your money and sod off, because we're so good at managing our economy there's no risk?

amused,
Scofflaw

Permabear

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FreudianSlippers

There's always money in the banana stand!

20Cent

Scofflaw wrote: »

Give us your money and sod off, because we're so good at managing our economy there's no risk?

amused,
Scofflaw

If the ECB/IMF told us to wear our underpants on the outside Scofflow would be on here telling us why we have to do it and we have no choice.

Sick of the smart ass negative bull**** from a lot of the posters on boards.ie the "libertarian" retard element have made it impossible to discuss anything.

I resign!!!!!!!1

Again.

FreudianSlippers

You know what they say about heat and kitchens!

meglome

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Those 'demands' are not written in stone. They are not a manifesto. They are the demands of people who have at least had the courage to make some demands. Yes, they are vague and aspirational (and a bit too new age/hippy for my tastes). That will not prevent me from adding my voice - with my 'demands'. In fact, I would go so far as to say now I must add my voice and strive to bring a more focused and practical list to the fore. I know I am not alone.

My motivation is not what is on a ' 4 point plan' - my motivation is the continuing existence of the same-oh crap as we always had. If I don't stand up and say that - what right have I complain when that same-oh is still with us in 20/30/40 years?

Hang on now they have very specifically laid out what their goals are. And as has been pointed out their goals are nonsense. It's like when the unions here went on marches over the last few years, I just couldn't join in as I disagreed with them wholeheartedly. Though at the same time I saw the need for protests on some issues, just different ones to the unions.

There are many things stated in this thread I'd happily join a protest about, you mentioned many of them. I see no point though in joining a protest who's stated aims I do not agree with and cannot work. You can't just decide the protest is about whatever you want it to be about, it either supports your stated goals or it doesn't. And right now it doesn't.

meglome

20Cent wrote: »

If the ECB/IMF told us to wear our underpants on the outside Scofflow would be on here telling us why we have to do it and we have no choice.

Sick of the smart ass negative bull**** from a lot of the posters on boards.ie the "libertarian" retard element have made it impossible to discuss anything.

I resign!!!!!!!1

Again.

I started this thread and one of the main reasons was I was so incredulous about what they were doing. I agree with the need to protest and there are lots of things to protest about. Yet somehow they managed to pick a set of things that are bull**** or imaginary. I mean come the **** on, of all the things going on and they couldn't find some actual real life legitimate targets. Sweet jesus.

Scofflaw

20Cent wrote: »

If the ECB/IMF told us to wear our underpants on the outside Scofflow would be on here telling us why we have to do it and we have no choice.

Sick of the smart ass negative bull**** from a lot of the posters on boards.ie the "libertarian" retard element have made it impossible to discuss anything.

I resign!!!!!!!1

Again.

As I said, if those who want to do something different had a credible plan rather than representing various interest groups who want a bigger share of the pie, or being muppets who would fail a primary school economics class, I'd happily support that alternative.

But that hasn't happened - and I appreciate that those who believe their plans are credible may find that a little insulting - and that's why all the protests we've been told will 'gather steam' and eventually blow the whole rotten mess to kingdom come instead peter away into irrelevant obscurity.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Bannasidhe

meglome wrote: »

Hang on now they have very specifically laid out what their goals are. And as has been pointed out their goals are nonsense. It's like when the unions here went on marches over the last few years, I just couldn't join in as I disagreed with them wholeheartedly. Though at the same time I saw the need for protests on some issues, just different ones to the unions.

There are many things stated in this thread I'd happily join a protest about, you mentioned many of them. I see no point though in joining a protest who's stated aims I do not agree with and cannot work. You can't just decide the protest is about whatever you want it to be about, it either supports your stated goals or it doesn't. And right now it doesn't.

Did you read the report from Dame Street I quoted passages from (#124)? You will see that the author echoes my views and that is why he was there. If you want to protest about some of the same things I said disturb me (or other things I didn't mention....!) - get down there and have your say. Get your ideas on the agenda!

But if you want to say ...'ah, sure the 4 things I read are pants like so I won't bother' even though it has been made very clear that everyone has the right to have an input.

If you decline to have that input into the aims of the protest - you can't really complain about the aims now can you?

I think the 4 points are wishy-washy, unfocused and really just snappy slogans. However, I do think there are serious issues that need to be highlighted and government made aware that a lot of people - people who are not 'activists' - ordinary people who are fed up of the continuing lack of change, the continuing lack of accountability, the continuing lack of taking responsibility for decisions being made now bar blaming either a)the previous government and/or b) IMF/ECB and want to send a clear and unambiguous message that we will not rest until things start to really change.

As the article made clear - I am not the only one.

I intend to have my input as I am tired of being silent. I am tired of broken election promises. I am tired of the hypocrisy of highly paid politicians and senior civil servants preaching about the need for austerity while taking no appreciable hit to their own financial positions. I am tired of the secrecy of NAMA and now NewEra. I am tired of reading about bankers bonuses continuing. I am tired of hearing we must all tighten our belts so SNAs will be cut, garda stations in rural areas will close, hospitals will shut wards and emergency services while our elected representatives continue to get a generous allowance just for turning up to work.

I have reached my breaking point and will no longer remain silent.

We must each decide what we can and cannot live with.

I can no longer live with myself if I remain a good little worker bee who pays her taxes, pays her bills, pays her mortgage and knuckles down to help pay for lax regulation, snouts in the trough and unbridled greed by a small elite. An elite who were protected by the previous government and are still being protected by the current one.

Permabear

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