Art O Neill Challenge 2012

ezikel

HI All,

Just to let you know that www.artoneillchallenge.ie is now live and taking entries

We plan to use the facebook page as a forum for tips/questions etc. We will also be having frequent competitions on the FB site and we will also be profiling key figures in the challenge.

There is a restriction on the number of participants this year so be sure to get in early if you are up for the challenge.

There may be slight modifications to the route around checkpoint 1, at Kippure House, which I will update with grid refs as soon as it happens.

Happy training. We will have info nights closer to the challenge for runners and walkers separately.

All the best,

Gearoid


last year's thread

donothoponpop

Hi Gearoid,

I just signed up, but had problems entering details- there's no scroll bar, so I had to highlight boxes to scroll under the ads. Also, wasn't charged;) What is the cost?

ezikel

donothoponpop wrote: »

Hi Gearoid,

I just signed up, but had problems entering details- there's no scroll bar, so I had to highlight boxes to scroll under the ads. Also, wasn't charged;) What is the cost?

You must have entered before I took it off testing mode. A number of people did.........too quick off the mark! I have set it to active now so have another go, all of the test registrations would have been deleted when I set it to active so the one you did earlier is null and void.

Let me know if you have any probs

G

donothoponpop

Just tried again, got the acceptance email, but no payment screen came up.

I stress I'm not unhappy with this state of affairs, but you may want to have a look at the website...;)

ezikel

donothoponpop wrote: »

Just tried again, got the acceptance email, but no payment screen came up.

I stress I'm not unhappy with this state of affairs, but you may want to have a look at the website...;)

Fixed.....thanks donothoponpop!

RacoonQueen

You never gave us our discount code. :pac:

No more procrastinating for me.

Esroh

I've been meaning to follow the Family Footsteps for awhile. 2012 will be the year:)

kingQuez

A few quick questions after looking over the website, and list of mandatory kit:

What sort of gps have people found useful for navigating this in the past (assuming you get coverage and don't have to fall back on map+compass)?

What type of waterproof bottoms would you use (anything I've got for hiking would be too bulky or hot to run in), I'd of assumed you'd just go with thermal tights and gaitors or some such, but I've little experience of offroad running.

A down jacket, is that just part of spare kit or would you wear it when running? What's the distinction between this and an appropriate layering of thermal layers under a waterproof shell?

"Extra footwear"? Do you need to carry this with you?

nerraw1111

kingQuez wrote: »

A few quick questions after looking over the website, and list of mandatory kit:

What sort of gps have people found useful for navigating this in the past (assuming you get coverage and don't have to fall back on map+compass)?

What type of waterproof bottoms would you use (anything I've got for hiking would be too bulky or hot to run in), I'd of assumed you'd just go with thermal tights and gaitors or some such, but I've little experience of offroad running.

A down jacket, is that just part of spare kit or would you wear it when running? What's the distinction between this and an appropriate layering of thermal layers under a waterproof shell?

"Extra footwear"? Do you need to carry this with you?

Only the gear with asterixs beside them are mandatory. So down jackets, extra shoes are not mandatory.

You're allowed leave a bag of kit at the start which is then transported to the first checkpoint. So what happened on the run/hybrid was that some people changed footwear at the first checkpoint from road shoes to trail shoes/hiking boots.

I've a pair of Berghaus paclite bottoms. They're fantastic. Some reviews of running waterproofs here:

http://www.mudsweatandtears.co.uk/2009/03/18/i-love-my-pants/

RacoonQueen

Were there many doing the ultra last year?

As well as the bag drop I assume you're meant to carry another one with all the essential kit in it? The backpack I run with at the moment is too small. I'll have to go gear shopping, I'm not unhappy with this.

jb-ski

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Were there many doing the ultra last year?

As well as the bag drop I assume you're meant to carry another one with all the essential kit in it? The backpack I run with at the moment is too small. I'll have to go gear shopping, I'm not unhappy with this.

Hi RQ, don't get too bogged down with the gear/kit thing. A lot of the small compulsory bits can be borrowed or are not expensive.
You'll still be unsure at 2am on race morning regarding shoes, leggings, jackets etc!

It all depends on the weather on the night, and how long you plan to be out for.

IMO, the Walk is much harder than the Ultra. 14/15 hours on your feet over the mountains is not much fun.

So get out and recce the route and do the Ultra,

donothoponpop

The route that is listed includes gridpoints- "Ascending Black Hill we then head over to O:051 076 , then O:048 068 and down to Billy Byrne's Gap O:043 067
Now it's over to O:034 060 and on to Glenbride O:039 043". Are these recommended or mandatory? If not mandatory, is there free route choice between checkpoints? I was out today around Billy Byrne's gap, and contoured around to the Glenbride ref, but might recce again running down to the river, which might ease the Nav on a dark and wild night.

Gravale

There's a traditional route choice from Black Hill to Ballinagee, and there's a route choice favoured by runners.

The grid references and route from Black Hill to Ballinagee are the traditional (walkers) suggestions which some will find a little complex, but if speed and convenience is your goal (runners) you might try O:048 069 after Black Hill and then on to the forest exit at 0:049 038 which leads to the Ballinagee checkpoint. It's merit is simplicity.

fergalr

Hey all, quick question: when exactly is it on?

The website says:
"JANUARY 13TH 2012, DUBLIN CASTLE, TREK STARTS AT MIDNIGHT, ULTRA STARTS AT 2AM"


I'd be walking, if I signed up, but just to be completely clear, because 'midnight' is a confusing time, is the Ultra starting at 2AM on January 13th, or 2AM on January 14th?

I presume that competitors would be heading to Dublin castle late on Friday evening, starting Friday night, and then finishing mid way through saturday 14th?
But I'd just like to check for sure?

Gravale

If you're walking you'll be leaving Dublin Castle at midnight on Friday 13th. You'll be walking into Saturday morning and finishing Saturday afternoon.

The runners start at 2am on Saturday morning.

Nialloooo

Hi Guys is there anyone looking for someone to run with? id love to give the ultra a go but i have no navagtion skills so im kinda scubbered unless there is an one ruuning as a team

ThisRegard

I missed last year but from what I've been told, and read, is that if you can't navigate you will be put into a group with a navigator when you reach Kippure. Hope to do it myself this year.

donothoponpop

Nialloooo wrote: »

Hi Guys is there anyone looking for someone to run with? id love to give the ultra a go but i have no navagtion skills so im kinda scubbered unless there is an one ruuning as a team

Have you ran any of the mountain sections in daylight yet? Get yourself a decent map (the EastWest "Wicklow Mountains West" is the best), and try recce'ing a section. I went from Wicklow gap to Billy Byrne's gap last weekend, nothing beats experience. Hope to get out and do all the off-road section at different times before the race, with at least some done at night. Maybe anyone intending to recce could post it up here, and we can share the load? I'll be out this weekend, will post times and places if anyone is interested in joining.

RacoonQueen

Nialloooo wrote: »

Hi Guys is there anyone looking for someone to run with? id love to give the ultra a go but i have no navagtion skills so im kinda scubbered unless there is an one ruuning as a team

Assuming I'm still in(I may have been a little hasty by registering last week) then I will be. I've actually signed up to the Outdoors Ireland MS1 course so I can, hopefully, learn how not to die in the mountains.

seanjodonnell

Signed up for this as a runner, If anyone plans on taking on some of the off road sections for practice and would like some company let me know (not that im experienced, would just be nice to do it with company).

Mr Marenghi

OK so quick question.

I’m a marathon runner and would love to give this a go but.... I certainly ain’t in a position to enter a race and then pay a few hundred quid on gear that I might only use once. Am I right that it would cost a fair bit ? Or is their some cheaper way round it I’m not seeing ?

I don’t really know anybody to borrow the gear off either.

Thanks!

ultraman1

Mr Marenghi wrote: »

OK so quick question.

I’m a marathon runner and would love to give this a go but.... I certainly ain’t in a position to enter a race and then pay a few hundred quid on gear that I might only use once. Am I right that it would cost a fair bit ? Or is their some cheaper way round it I’m not seeing ?

I don’t really know anybody to borrow the gear off either.

Thanks!

cant recall what i spent on gear for this but it wasnt very much,if ur walkin it ul need to get more stuff,aldi or lidl sell a snow geararound this time so u can get loads of layers off them

Fi H

My advice would be that you are better off investing in one good set of merino base layers than a number of the cheaper non merino ones aldi and lidl have them sometimes so its worth keeping an eye there and also try the pategonia shop on wicklow st as they usually have discounted versions!

RacoonQueen

Are the ones in Lidl and aldi just as good then? Aldi had some when they had their bike deals on a few weeks ago but I figured it'd be a bit crap.

ElectraX

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Are the ones in Lidl and aldi just as good then? Aldi had some when they had their bike deals on a few weeks ago but I figured it'd be a bit crap.

The Aldi base layers are decent enough.I wear them loads in the Winter and think they are excellent value for money.
However I would agree that it is very worthwhile investing in good quality gear,because it will last you forever.I always keep an eye on when the sales are coming up, cause you can really build up a great collection of gear without spending a fortune. I got some really good half price Icebreaker base layers in 53 Degress North around this time last year and I think I will be opting for those as opposed to the Aldi gear for the Art O'Neill. Think the key is layering though!!

Homer1798

I've used the Aldi stuff cycling and walking in extreme weather and found it performs better than some of my more expenseive gear. when it goes on sale get in there fast as it seems to sell out quite quickly and sizes can be limited. I've found thier comression gear very good.

donothoponpop

Went up from the road to three lakes area, scouting a few routes. It was tough going on the top, zero visibility and perma-slop! Tried descending along the river just west of Art's cross... suffice to say I will not be nav'ing by the river on the night! Its a tough enough section this one.

nerraw1111

What kind of training plans are people doing for this? I presume following a marathon schedule?

I'm considering doing Pfitzinger and Douglas 12 week plan up to 55 miles per week. It's only 12 weeks away this Friday. Eeek.

Given that I won't be running the whole thing, i.e. walking up hills/rough ground, stopping for nav etc, I don't see the point in training beyond marathon training?

donothoponpop

nerraw1111 wrote: »

What kind of training plans are people doing for this? I presume following a marathon schedule?

I'm considering doing Pfitzinger and Douglas 12 week plan up to 55 miles per week. It's only 12 weeks away this Friday. Eeek.

Given that I won't be running the whole thing, i.e. walking up hills/rough ground, stopping for nav etc, I don't see the point in training beyond marathon training?

I'd be broadly following a similar P&D <55 mile, but without religiously sticking to the daily plan. As much time in the hills as I can muster- three hours walking/jogging/climbing through slop and heather at the weekend felt a lot harder than a three hour LSR! I've also started to run as much by headtorch as I can- at the moment this has been on roads or trail, but I hope to get in some decent open mountain moonlight excursions in the coming months.

nerraw1111

Cheers, DoNot. That's my thinking on it too, not going to follow it religiously but get a few big training runs in plus a few hikes.

RacoonQueen

Time for me to unsubscibe from this thread methinks. Next year RQ, next year...

Might still be able to do the hybrid, would rather do the ultra if I'm doing it. First time I've been excited about a race in over a year and the hybrid just doesn't do it for me so seems rather pointless.

My2Cents

Does anyone know if there are any access issues along the route for doing reccies?
From last year, I remember hopping a fence at the back of Kippure lodge and coming back to the road quite close to a farmhouse - is there a right of way here?
Similarly coming down to the second checkpoint we skirted around the back of a house, is this open year round or is permission required?
Don't want to make life difficult for the organisers by inadvertently traipsing across someone's garden!

ElectraX

Anyone else thinking of doing the Hybrid version of this? Don't have the fitness/nav skills for the Ultra but no interest in walking the whole thing either.Like the idea of at least getting in a decent enough run to Kippure before starting the hike.
Would be interedted to hear what training plans anyone had in mind for the hybrid...

My2Cents

ElectraX wrote: »

Anyone else thinking of doing the Hybrid version of this? Don't have the fitness/nav skills for the Ultra but no interest in walking the whole thing either.Like the idea of at least getting in a decent enough run to Kippure before starting the hike.
Would be interedted to hear what training plans anyone had in mind for the hybrid...

I did the hybrid last year, mostly off the back of marathon training early in the year followed by the IMRA league runs over the summer. Didn't do much in terms of specific training bar one 20mile hike.
The run section from Dublin castle to Kippure was handy enough, although I found a run/walk approach was needed to get me over the section from stonecross to Kippure itself.
The leg muscles did tighten up towards the end of the hiking section - particularly the final downhill, but if you're starting from a good base it's definitely doable.
A marathon training plan with a few hikes substituted for the long runs (or a comination of running and hiking) would set you up nicely.

ElectraX

My2Cents wrote: »

A marathon training plan with a few hikes substituted for the long runs (or a comination of running and hiking) would set you up nicely.

Thanks for that suggestion.I'm not really one for long hikes usually so I think my plan is going to be to get out into the mountains for two-three hour runs at least once a week to build fitness.Started with a 15km run today;nearly wussed out due to the weather but then thought if I can't run in the rain,how will I get out in the cold in the middle of the night in January:D
Did you run the solo or were you doing it with others? And when you got to Kippure, were you waiting round long to start the hike section?

jfrice

Hi Everyone,

Would I be kidding myself if I thought this would be a good idea to run this as my first Ultra Marathon?

I have ran a few marathons before and am doing Dublin next week.

Thanks,
J

My2Cents

ElectraX wrote: »

Thanks for that suggestion.I'm not really one for long hikes usually so I think my plan is going to be to get out into the mountains for two-three hour runs at least once a week to build fitness.Started with a 15km run today;nearly wussed out due to the weather but then thought if I can't run in the rain,how will I get out in the cold in the middle of the night in January:D
Did you run the solo or were you doing it with others? And when you got to Kippure, were you waiting round long to start the hike section?

It was sleet/snow most of the night last time so get used to the bad weather!
On the running section I had planned to be on my own but I ended up running with a few people I know from IMRA, there was a pretty big group doing 8-8.5 minute miles. I'd then arranged to meet a couple of friends for the hiking section - we went with a guided group, I think we were the 2nd or 3rd to leave and we had been in about 20 minutes - to be honest you can get going as quickly as you want and the guides/organisers are very good at keeping people moving, the hard part is leaving the warmth!
I'd really recommend getting out for a couple of hikes - for the hybrid you'll be on your feet for about 10-12 hours so it would be good to have a few long hikes in the legs beforehand.

belcarra

jfrice wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

Would I be kidding myself if I thought this would be a good idea to run this as my first Ultra Marathon?

I have ran a few marathons before and am doing Dublin next week.

Thanks,
J

I would suggest the Hybrid event would be perfect for you.
You could run the road section to the stop at Kippure House and then run/hike the remainder. This way you will be under less pressure for your first Ultra and the extra challenges the mountainous terrain and associated navigation will bring.
Also, if you are strong enough you will be in a position to still run the entire course if you are able for it.:)

This will probably be my plan for it anyways!:p

jfrice

belcarra wrote: »

I would suggest the Hybrid event would be perfect for you.
You could run the road section to the stop at Kippure House and then run/hike the remainder. This way you will be under less pressure for your first Ultra and the extra challenges the mountainous terrain and associated navigation will bring.
Also, if you are strong enough you will be in a position to still run the entire course if you are able for it.:)

This will probably be my plan for it anyways!:p

This seems like a good idea. Thanks a lot might go about it that way

Wally Runs

I am also keen to run. I am just not sure about the second phase. Going to try out some after the weekend. It has been some time since I navigated and that was during the day in NZ. On the other hand I bought a head torch!

Git101

Did a recce on the Wicklow gap to Glenmalure section today.

I would love to do this with someone who knows the area, I suspect that the shortest route is not always the best route.

Anybody heading out over the next few weekends that knows the lie of the land ??

donothoponpop

Git101 wrote: »

Did a recce on the Wicklow gap to Glenmalure section today.

I would love to do this with someone who knows the area, I suspect that the shortest route is not always the best route.

Anybody heading out over the next few weekends that knows the lie of the land ??

What route did you take?

Git101

donothoponpop wrote: »

What route did you take?

I don't have access to a map at the moment to put in co-ordinates.

Entry at forestry track just down from Ballinagee bridge. Followed track (cutting out zig zag) through gate to the river. I stayed on the left of the river until just before it's joined by another river flowing from steep ground.

Question: Is it better to cross the river earlier, maybe somewhere near NPWS boundry. The ground on the left is very wet/soft is it any firmer on the right side?

I crossed a river about half way up the valley and took the steep ground to Arts Cross.

Question: Is there a better route?

I took a direct route from Arts Cross to Three Lakes, this involved plenty of climbing in and out of the peat channels.

Question: Is there a better route?

From Three Lakes I aimed for the corner of a forestry plantation (mostly felled now but the corner near the river is still there) and followed the river to a forestry track.

Question: Is it better to head further west for the track to avoid the steep ground along the river?

I intend to cover this route again so I should be able to answer some of my own questions but if anyone any advice I would appreciate it.

donothoponpop

An awful lot of route choice will depend on the conditions on the night/morning. For instance, if the ground is frozen, you'll make good progress across the grass plain to Art's Cross. Different story if you're lifting tired legs through swamp; in this case it makes better sense to keep to higher ground.

Git101 wrote: »

Entry at forestry track just down from Ballinagee bridge. Followed track (cutting out zig zag) through gate to the river. I stayed on the left of the river until just before it's joined by another river flowing from steep ground.

Question: Is it better to cross the river earlier, maybe somewhere near NPWS boundry. The ground on the left is very wet/soft is it any firmer on the right side?

Git101 wrote: »

I crossed a river about half way up the valley and took the steep ground to Arts Cross.

Question: Is there a better route?

Lets assume the ground is frozen, mist is down, making nav difficult. In that case you can make good progess across the frozen plain, and follow the river as you did towards Arts Cross, and ascend here.

But if the ground is sloppy, another option might be to ascend the gradual ridge between the Gleenreemore and Ashbawn rivers- so you cross the river almost immediately after exiting the forest, and begin your ascent, staying 500m west of the Cross. It can be tough going through the heather here, though, and you have to keep your wits about you direction-wise.

Git101 wrote: »

I took a direct route from Arts Cross to Three Lakes, this involved plenty of climbing in and out of the peat channels.

Question: Is there a better route?

Good question! The only advice I could give is to limit the amount of stack climbing you do- its better to expend less energy slaloming around the bases of the peat, with your compass in hand.

Git101 wrote: »

From Three Lakes I aimed for the corner of a forestry plantation (mostly felled now but the corner near the river is still there) and followed the river to a forestry track.

Question: Is it better to head further west for the track to avoid the steep ground along the river?

I was up here yesterday, went from above three lakes to table track. Certainly, once on the track you will make good progress, and your orienteering is done for you to the finish, so this might make a good choice for a tired body and mind. The heather mound over to table track is for the most part quite runnable/walkable. But its a bit more distance than your direct Conavalla route, so again it might come down to conditions deciding route choice. If you're sure of where you are on a map, its a lot easier to nav along a river for a couple of kilometers, than wandering around peat stacks in the mist.

I might go out again in a couple of weeks, to try some variants.

Gravale

This Art Walk End.jpg is the route from the gate out to the Glenreemore Brook, upwards to Art's Cross and across to the river and track leading down to the finish. It's the route I've followed for many years.

mcgratheoin

Git101 wrote: »

Did a recce on the Wicklow gap to Glenmalure section today.

I would love to do this with someone who knows the area, I suspect that the shortest route is not always the best route.

Anybody heading out over the next few weekends that knows the lie of the land ??

We did a bit of the route last Monday (bank holiday). We parked in Glendalough and went over the Wicklow Gap, down to Ballinagee and up to Art's Cross. The mountains were as wet as I ever remember and I definitely would avoid the grassy plain if we have those kinds of deluges again. Crossing the river lower down was not an option and the stream coming down from the west was a bit of a torrent so we just followed the stream up to the east of Art's Cross.
I think that conditions on the night/morning will make much more of a difference than any other factor, so there may not be much point in getting advice based on a single recce.

piglet69

lads,
reading your route choice with interest. I haven't tried this ridge in
years. I recently recced the leg from Ballinagee Bridge to Lough Firrib (LF). From 3028 2003(forest corner) I went up onto Oakwood and then straight on to LF. there's a vague track up to about 500m (shown on eastwest map) and then its thru heather again until you reach the top of Oakwood. from here you can pick up another track.
From LF my plan is to head straight to Conavalla and on to Table Track. anyone any thoughts.

i'm using this option if the ground isn't frozen. if it is i just plan to follow river as far as 3 lakes.

nerraw1111

Where exactly is the three lakes?

I cannot remember passing or seeing any lakes last year? I might've sleep walked past the area last year but from my recollection, the route after the second checkpoint was fairly straightforward no?

Stark

Here: http://osm.org/go/es88a0h7--

The third lake is seasonal, usually you just see two lakes.

Gravale

See it here on the OSI map:

Art Walk End.jpg

Git101

donothoponpop wrote: »

I was up here yesterday, went from above three lakes to table track. Certainly, once on the track you will make good progress, and your orienteering is done for you to the finish, so this might make a good choice for a tired body and mind. The heather mound over to table track is for the most part quite runnable/walkable. But its a bit more distance than your direct Conavalla route, so again it might come down to conditions deciding route choice. If you're sure of where you are on a map, its a lot easier to nav along a river for a couple of kilometers, than wandering around peat stacks in the mist.

I might go out again in a couple of weeks, to try some variants.

Thanks, some good food for thought in your post.

I know that conditions on the day will effect route choices but from a running point of view do you feel it makes more sense to take the longer route from Tree Lakes to Table Track, hitting it at around T025 967 or to take the more direct route along Lough Brook hitting the track at about T035 963 ?

Gravale wrote: »

This Art Walk End.jpg is the route from the gate out to the Glenreemore Brook, upwards to Art's Cross and across to the river and track leading down to the finish. It's the route I've followed for many years.

Almost identical to the route I took except for a bit near Arts Cross.
Did you cut up behind the memorial plaque to ascend towards Arts Cross ?