*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2012*

QueenOfLeon

hollingr wrote: »

As a student the final two years of the course are final - that's the end of the line, no repeats. You get a 'pass' degree if even, and can't practise medicine! So in comparison to that the hpat is pretty tame.

hollingr wrote: »

It's the same in medicine for final year, ask around! I know this for a fact because my dad is an examiner for medicine in RCSI and if you fail in final year there is no second chance. (2nd last year counts alot towards final year score so I include it with that)

Ok, I'm not going to say if you're right or wrong, but I've never heard any of this. I'm only going on what we've been told so far, and from a document I have about "School of Medicine marks and standards" I can't see anything like it.

At the moment, 1st and 2nd med are worth 10% each, 3rd med is worth 20%, and 4th and final med are worth 30% each (not sure if this is the same for all colleges).

What I do know is that you can definitely repeat exams in 4th med, its on the document and last year out of interest I looked up the repeat timetable for medicine (it also gives the amount of people sitting that repeat) and there were definitely some people resitting 4th year modules.

As regards final med, there is a tick in the box for "Autumn repeats", but since final meds usually finish up in April/May and start working in July, I'm not exactly sure how that would work. I have never heard that you can't fail any module at all though.

hollingr wrote: »

I'm sure you can repeat the 2nd last year but you still only get a pass mark - i.e if you repeat and get 1.1 it still only would count as a 2.2 on your grades.

I think you may be getting confused with repeating modules here. If you fail a module in the summer and repeat it in August, no matter what you get in August you're capped at 50% but for that module only. If you managed to do well in the rest and they all averaged out over 70% you'd still have a 1.1.

hollingr

Will readily admit I probably have my wires crossed a bit, but remember each college is also different so what applies to yours will not have the exact same rules in another college.

You're right it does work from module to module (I think it's like that for all colleges), as I said I didn't want to get into an in-depth discussion or get into explaining the finer points.

If you do fail overall though you are pretty screwed.

finality

jumpguy wrote: »

At that stage, the student is also probably 21/22/23, and not a 17 year old kid who has never sat an exam like the HPAT before.

I think it's pretty terrible if a student can't cope with the likes of the HPAT at 17. A 17 year old is definitely not a child and should have the maturity to be able to sit a multiple choice exam without breaking down.

I don't think it's the case that many 17 year olds are finding the HPAT overwhelmingly stressful either. Everyone in my exam centre just got on with it, no drama at all. Yes a lot depends on it, but it's not the end of the world and it's actually insulting to have people assume that a 17 year old can't cope with the pressure. I know you're not referring to everyone, but in my opinion it's an issue with the individual if they can't handle such an exam, not with the exam itself.

I just hate the attitude of "oh it's too stressful for the poor kids." Everything in life is stressful, you just have to learn to get on with it.

DepoProvera

Freaking the **** out right now.

I didn't have to have all of the medicine colleges on my CAO already did I? I seem to remember there was something like that ages ago so I put in one medicine course just in case. Have I royally ****ed up?

NoHarm1994

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

I'LL FITE YOU ALL!

Come at me bro.

partyatmygaff

finality wrote: »

I think it's pretty terrible if a student can't cope with the likes of the HPAT at 17. A 17 year old is definitely not a child and should have the maturity to be able to sit a multiple choice exam without breaking down.

I don't think it's the case that many 17 year olds are finding the HPAT overwhelmingly stressful either. Everyone in my exam centre just got on with it, no drama at all. Yes a lot depends on it, but it's not the end of the world and it's actually insulting to have people assume that a 17 year old can't cope with the pressure. I know you're not referring to everyone, but in my opinion it's an issue with the individual if they can't handle such an exam, not with the exam itself.

I just hate the attitude of "oh it's too stressful for the poor kids." Everything in life is stressful, you just have to learn to get on with it.

I'd tend to agree. You can only learn how to cope with stress and pressure to a certain extent. Some people just have a natural ability to remain calm and collected when put under pressure.

As far as i'm concerned, being able to remain calm and collected even when a lot is at stake and you're dealing with unfamiliar situations is a very valuable trait and indirectly the HPAT appears to be testing for that.

jumpguy

DepoProvera wrote: »

I didn't have to have all of the medicine colleges on my CAO already did I? I seem to remember there was something like that ages ago so I put in one medicine course just in case. Have I royally ****ed up?

Not if you've sat the HPAT.

CAO Handbook wrote:

An application for a Restricted-Application Course will not be considered unless
a)it has been included among your original course choices by 1st February

or

b)it has been added to your existing application not later than the final date for correction of errors or omissions (see Pages 14 and 16). This date will normally be 1st March and it is your responsibility to ensure that any Restricted-Application Courses are present and correct by that date.

Restricted-Application Courses which are included in Late Applications are invalid choices and will not be considered.

Exception: If a restricted course shares the exact same assessment procedures with a course you had applied for (fulfilling conditions a) or b) above), you may be permitted to introduce it on a Change of Mind. You should consult with the relevant HEI before introducing such a course.

Note the exception!

finality wrote: »

I think it's pretty terrible if a student can't cope with the likes of the HPAT at 17. A 17 year old is definitely not a child and should have the maturity to be able to sit a multiple choice exam without breaking down.

I don't think it's the case that many 17 year olds are finding the HPAT overwhelmingly stressful either. Everyone in my exam centre just got on with it, no drama at all. Yes a lot depends on it, but it's not the end of the world and it's actually insulting to have people assume that a 17 year old can't cope with the pressure. I know you're not referring to everyone, but in my opinion it's an issue with the individual if they can't handle such an exam, not with the exam itself.

I just hate the attitude of "oh it's too stressful for the poor kids." Everything in life is stressful, you just have to learn to get on with it.

Here, look, I sat the HPAT when I was 17. I know I wasn't a child. I did not say nor assume a 17 year old can't handle the pressure. I'm saying there's no need for that pressure. If the HPAT worked and fairly picked medicine candidates, I'd be all for it. But it doesn't, it favours those who repeat and those who can afford expensive prep courses. Therefore, it is completely unnecessary stress, and probably a bit daunting when you're sitting it the first time, knowing you're sitting an exam with the odds stacked against you.

At the time I sat it, I rather naively believed the HPAT was a fair assessment form and I had the same shot as anyone else at getting into medicine.

DepoProvera

Cheers Jumpguy.

Well whenever I feel like complaining about the HPAT I just read some of the American forums on Medstudents. They need to: have like .8 GPA, be published in a science journal, have done volunteer work, sit the MCAT, and they come out of it with thousands of dollars of debt. We don't have it that bad

finality

jumpguy wrote: »

Not if you've sat the HPAT.
Note the exception!
Here, look, I sat the HPAT when I was 17. I know I wasn't a child. I did not say nor assume a 17 year old can't handle the pressure. I'm saying there's no need for that pressure. If the HPAT worked and fairly picked medicine candidates, I'd be all for it. But it doesn't, it favours those who repeat and those who can afford expensive prep courses. Therefore, it is completely unnecessary stress, and probably a bit daunting when you're sitting it the first time, knowing you're sitting an exam with the odds stacked against you.

At the time I sat it, I rather naively believed the HPAT was a fair assessment form and I had the same shot as anyone else at getting into medicine.

Everyone isn't going to have the same shot at getting medicine, no matter what assessment method is used. There is no entirely fair assessment method. Also, people have different aptitudes and levels of ability, and at the end of the day not everyone can get the course.

There is no form of aptitude or intelligence test in which you can't improve your score by practising the type of questions that come up. But I think there's a limit to the amount you can improve your score. A certain amount of preparation is necessary for any test, being familiar with the layout and style of questions is important.

If a student really wants to get into medicine they will do that preparation, and in my opinion, extra practise after that won't have a huge benefit. If someone just doesn't have a logical type of mind there's only so much a prep course can do for them. We don't know what students would've scored in the HPAT without doing a prep course.

I actually think that the HPAT isn't a bad test. I've done a couple of IQ tests in the past and the questions in the first and third sections of the HPAT are quite similar. Logic and problem solving skills are very important in medicine, it's not just about being able to learn things off, which is what the leaving cert tests. The ability to understand emotions is very important too, and the leaving cert definitely doesn't test that; I would argue that the HPAT does, to some extent at least.

Basically what I'm saying is I don't think prep courses give people that much of an advantage. The HPAT might favour repeats but that could be said about any test, the leaving cert included. And unfortunately, people with a lot of money are always going to be at an advantage, no matter what the system. Some students can afford grinds and revision courses and extra classes, others can't, there isn't really any way of changing that.

Also, I don't think the HPAT causes unnecessary stress. I know I'd be under much more pressure if I knew I HAD to get 600 points in the leaving cert.

Just Like Heaven

NoHarm1994 wrote: »

Come at me bro.

Here. April 25th

doctara

<snip>

QueenOfLeon

doctara wrote: »

<snip>

doctara, you are not allowed to advertise on boards, alternatively you can use adverts.ie.

NoHarm1994

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Here. April 25th

Sweating for it.

spasmaster

Out of the 4000 or so people who did the Hpat, how many people do you think did hpat grind courses?

Stalin and rugby

spasmaster wrote: »

Out of the 4000 or so people who did the Hpat, how many people do you think did hpat grind courses?

I was talking to a few people in the waiting area, they had all done it. By the way how can there be only 4000 people doing the Hpat but 14700 people applying to medicine? Have all those peeps already done it?

QueenOfLeon

Stalin and rugby wrote: »

I was talking to a few people in the waiting area, they had all done it. By the way how can there be only 4000 people doing the Hpat but 14700 people applying to medicine? Have all those peeps already done it?

14700 applications, I'd imagine they count the 5 colleges you put down on your CAO as 5 applications?

degausserxo

I'd like to thank whoever set the results date as the day before my irish oral. 'preciate it, brah.

douglywougly

When is the results date?

0mega

How much could doing things like sudoku, crosswords and other puzzles help benefit you?

Worthwhile or a waste of time?

partyatmygaff

0mega wrote: »

How much could doing things like sudoku, crosswords and other puzzles help benefit you?

Worthwhile or a waste of time?

Complete and utter waste of time. It'd be as useful as doing multiplicative tables to try and prepare for LC Honours Maths.

To be honest, the HPAT isn't always about how logical you are but how familiar you are with the question styles.

drbtrenier

0mega wrote: »

How much could doing things like sudoku, crosswords and other puzzles help benefit you?

Worthwhile or a waste of time?

Difficult to say, but I think they are of benefit, definitely get you into a more logical, puzzle-solving mindset, which is essential for the hpat IMO. Especially sudoku/kakuro etc.

Still, they alone are definitely not enough. As someone else said, familiarity with the types of questions is very important, and i would definitely recommend getting the 2 acer practice booklets. And puzzles are of absolutely no use when it comes to Section 2.

I think it's about finding the balance between your own logic, familiarity with the questions, and time-keeping. That's been my experience anyway, hope that helps...

leavingcert.

degausserxo wrote: »

I'd like to thank whoever set the results date as the day before my irish oral. 'preciate it, brah.

I was the same..but good news! If you check out the website, they've changed the date to the 30th because of the orals!

Quote from website:
Due to the fact that Leaving Certificate oral examinations will not be completed until 27th April, 2012 HPAT-Ireland results will be published on 30th April, 2012. An online HPAT-Ireland Statement of Results will be issued to every candidate on that date. This statement gives an overall score and an overall percentile rank to give you an indication of how well you performed against other HPAT-Ireland candidates. The maximum score a candidate can receive is 300.

partyatmygaff

Great... so now the results are going to be released on the first day of my annual exams. The last thing I need in between a biochemistry and physiology exam is a distraction like the HPAT results.

jumpguy

I don't see what's the point in releasing them later rather than earlier (i.e. within the next few days). All the results have by now most likely been uploaded and processed and sent to the CAO - as they demonstrated last year with the early-release error.

Anita Blow

Love getting the results the day of my Physiology exam. :rolleyes:

finality

Can't wait for the hpat results now, under 200 and I may cry :L

DepoProvera

finality wrote: »

Can't wait for the hpat results now, under 200 and I may cry :L

I'm banking on a lovely fluke and seeing 240... Oh my would that be nice. You'd be set like. But alas I have a horrible, sinking feeling that 120 will show up.

Aghh can't believe they've delayed it - tell me my future, ACER!

drbtrenier

I know, it's awful, wish they'd just hurry up and tell us already, hating that the waiting and the agony is being prolonged!!

I may cry with under 200 also finality :L I figure I'm either gonna be over the moon and crazily happy, or very, very, very upset!

Aaagh, I'm not good at the whole waiting thing. Can't help but think about it and wonder what my reaction will be to various scores... Grrrr another 24 days :mad:

QueenOfLeon

finality wrote: »

Can't wait for the hpat results now, under 200 and I may cry :L

drbtrenier wrote: »

I may cry with under 200 also finality :L I figure I'm either gonna be over the moon and crazily happy, or very, very, very upset!

200 is an absolutely exceptional score. By a rough estimate from the last 3 years graphs, not even 100 people have achieved that score each year, and there are over 400 places in medicine in the country.

Obviously I'm not saying that ye won't score well But with such a small percentage of people hitting 200, don't set your sights on that and be disappointed with anything less. Getting anything from 180 up gives you a good shot, even with 170 there's a chance.

Just Like Heaven

But with honours maths there's gonna be loooooaaaaads more people scoring 550.