Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

hurler on de ditch

Jeddah wrote: »

Looking at the make up of the committee tasked with coming up with the recommedendation for the next manager , i wouldnt be too confident in all the people appointed. There should have been people with better hurling pedigree than the Chairman , Secretary & Treasurer. Would have liked to have seen some respected former players involved in process.

i totally agree last year was a farce,disgraceful decision making and then treating de rest of the people like morons , coming out de way he[tom cunningham] did in favour of davy fitz and then the shambolic and total waste of time interviewing other candidates before recommending davy to himself [bertie ahearne has.nt a patch on him]also county board no balls they would have been happy 2 keep davy and then probably let de players try and get rid of him further down the line ,and why cant they come out and say who de yes men [club delicates]who will make up the sub committee,,,,,,,anyone know who mystery men or women are,its so draconian its no wonder we only have 2 all irelands in 130 years

Jeddah

A special sub-committee comprising the four senior board officers — Tom Cunningham, vice-chairman John O’Leary, county secretary Timmy O’Keeffe and treasurer Joe Cleary — together with De La Salle’s Seamus Quirke and John McDonnell of Tallow as representatives of the clubs — are mandated to begin the hunt for Fitzgerald’s successor.


There was a proposal put forward to have the committe made up of 3 from the CB and 3 from the Clubs but it got no seconder.

Its fairly clear from above that the CB will get their preferred man for the job and the club committe members will only be bystanders!

Daysha

According to John A Murphy the sub-committee had their first meeting last night and there's already been a bit of movement. Fergal Hartley has ruled himself out and John Allen's name is now doing the rounds a lot more than it had been.

PTH2009

Daysha wrote: »

According to John A Murphy the sub-committee had their first meeting last night and there's already been a bit of movement. Fergal Hartley has ruled himself out and John Allen's name is now doing the rounds a lot more than it had been.

would love john allen getting the job would really give Waterford Hurling a boost but with Hartley out of the race who is there really, Michael Ryan, Jim Greene, Kevin Ryan, Colm Bonnor etc

premierstone

Dont think Colm Bonner would be a good choice at all, he didnt exactly cover himself in glory with Wexford and from my understanding there was quite a bit of unrest and apathy in Wexford, yes he was successfull with WIT in fitzgibbon, but look what happened the last time that was used as a good baromoter!

mccarthy37

Look at how successful Anthony Daly has been with Dublin and he didn't cover himself in glory with his native county first time round. If Davy does get the Clare job you never know he might achieve great success with them and now the big question for us is who will be our next manager, with all this talk about money being tight our options are limited. Lets hope its a good choice.

Mountainlad

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Look at how successful Anthony Daly has been with Dublin and he didn't cover himself in glory with his native county first time round. If Davy does get the Clare job you never know he might achieve great success with them and now the big question for us is who will be our next manager, with all this talk about money being tight our options are limited. Lets hope its a good choice.

Don't agree. Poor enough Clare side, he got them within touching distance of an all-ireland final in 2005, besat game Cork got all year. Both 2005, and 2006 they beat Wexford comfortably. In 2007 (under Considine), they lost to Limerick with a pretty poor performance. Showed how good a job Daly was doing.

As for John Allen, I heard him on newstalk, someone asked would he take the Waterford job and he said 'Theres been no offers made to me, so as far as I know theres no interest in me'. That was Sunday night, (actually it wa on Rte take your point). The important thing was he did not by any means say no.

premierstone

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Look at how successful Anthony Daly has been with Dublin and he didn't cover himself in glory with his native county first time round. If Davy does get the Clare job you never know he might achieve great success with them and now the big question for us is who will be our next manager, with all this talk about money being tight our options are limited. Lets hope its a good choice.

He did a fine job with Clare and was unfairly compared to the 95 and 97 teams which were in fairness a once in a generation team for Clare, the Dublin county board would have had their choice of a huge number of big names and they choose Daly, rightly, so they obviously recognised what a fine job he had done with a fairly limited Clare team.

Cake Man

Would love to get John Allen, have been saying it for a while. I'd respect his opinion as he has a sound knowledge of the game. Again though, that may bring financial implications into play.

That's very encouraging to hear he hasn't actually come out and said he wasn't interested or ruled himself out so fingers crossed. Fergal opting out is a surprise. I wonder would he be interested in a selector role if offered.

Professey Chin

Allen never actually even occoured to me
Cant say id be unhappy if we got him though

hurler on de ditch

Jeddah wrote: »

Looking at the make up of the committee tasked with coming up with the recommedendation for the next manager , i wouldnt be too confident in all the people appointed. There should have been people with better hurling pedigree than the Chairman , Secretary & Treasurer. Would have liked to have seen some respected former players involved in process.

absolutely but no way CRONISM IS BEST LEFT 2 CRONIES

The blue blaa

John Allen would be a great man to get in, we'd have a someone that actually won an all-ireland as a manager and understands how tactics are to be used

Jeddah

The blue blaa wrote: »

John Allen would be a great man to get in, we'd have a someone that actually won an all-ireland as a manager and understands how tactics are to be used

Lads my recollection of John Allens management with Cork was that he took over after being a selector under Donal O Grady and basically kept things ticking over as they had been. In fact alot of people say that at that time it was the Cork Senior players that were running the team and the reason the players liked him so much was that because he let them.

Wouldnt be entirely impressed if he was appointed , there are better options within the county , eventhough they might not be the marquee names we are hearing.

Deise 2012

Eoin Murphy has refused to close the door on his Waterford career. The 2006 All-Star suffered a fractured skull playing for his club in April. The injury meant he missed out playing with Waterford's {HURLERS} this year but he has made a return to club action. The Shamrocks are out of this years championship so but he has said that he will keep in good shape over the winter & decide early in the new year whether he still have the appetite to go on playing inter-county hurling.


http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100002598527220

Could be some good news for who ever takes over from Davy.

Mountainlad

Good to hear that about Murph.

Here are the weekends quarter-final fixtures, Date and venue (no times)


Saturday 17/09/2011

Mount Sion V Ballyduff Upper
Lismore V Tallow

@ Fraher Field

De La Salle v Passage

@ Walsh Park

Sunday 18/09/2011

Ballygunner v Fourmilewater

@ Fraher Field

I believe the game on Sunday is at 6.30

http://www.sportsmanager.ie/cake/gaa2/waterford/competitionFixturesResults/19659/s_h_c_finals

ArtVandelay76

Jeddah wrote: »

Lads my recollection of John Allens management with Cork was that he took over after being a selector under Donal O Grady and basically kept things ticking over as they had been. In fact alot of people say that at that time it was the Cork Senior players that were running the team and the reason the players liked him so much was that because he let them.

Wouldnt be entirely impressed if he was appointed , there are better options within the county , eventhough they might not be the marquee names we are hearing.

I'd have the same reservations myself about him, he took over a team on top of their game and just kept them doing what they had been doing the previous couple of years, but then again who knows he could be the right man for the job.
Sounds like Michael Ryan will go for the job again.
Waterford job for Ryan?

MICHAEL RYAN has admitted that he’s considering letting his name go forward for the Waterford hurling manager’s post.


Ryan, who guided De La Salle to county and Munster club glory in 2010, has been nominated for the position by his club Fourmilewater. “I’m seriously considering it to be honest,” said Ryan. “Supporters are always asking me and I’m a Waterford man at the end of the day.”
Ryan boasts an impressive CV and served as selector alongside Justin McCarthy when Waterford won the league and Munster championship in 2007.
In 2000, he was selector/coach with the Waterford Under-21 football team that scored a shock replay victory over Kerry in Killarney. And, as manager of the Waterford women’s football team, he masterminded five All-Ireland successes and was also involved with the victorious Laois (2001) and Dublin (2010) teams.
Ryan also took charge of the successful Munster interprovincial hurling team in 2007 and masterminded 10 All-Ireland women’s club titles for his native Ballymacarbry between 1987 and 1998.



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0915/1224304141776.html

Mountainlad

You can be sure Michael Ryan will go forward again. What's changed since last year, other than he doesn't have club commitments tieing him down.

Suprised Hartley isn't going for it. The only contenders now are Michael Ryan and John Allen in my view. Both have impressive credentials, and both have some sceptism surrounding past achievements to (were both Cork and De La Salle that good that anyone could have managed them?). It's intriguing, couldn't tell ya to be honest who I'd prefer, but I would say that I've had either of them ahead of Fitzgerald so I'll probably be happy enough one way or another!

PTH2009

John Allen has the job if he wants it imo but have a feeling hes going to come out and rule himself out of the race.

lovelypoint

Interesting time, what with the myriad of canditates being ruled in and out. Sorry to see Fergal rule himself out so early, but suppose it is for the best, although I do hope both himself and Flynn, are involved in some capacity this year with Waterford.

Not surprised to see John Allen being linked with the job, and could see him being the next senior manager easily, both from his point of view and also the county boards (money excepted).

One things for sure, we need a good man over the next few years both willing and able to put into place the needed structures for future success. Think a lot of this will come down to the hunger and drive of the canditates selected, and hard to know who is the man for the job without hearing them have their say. I think this is something people easily forget, in an eagerness to scrutinise managerial cv's, but past achievements are only so much of an indicator of future success.

comeraghs

Has Donal O'Grady come out & said he isn't interested! He'd be a great manager .... far better than John Allen if we go for an outsider.

What about Kevin Ryan? has he said yes or no?

Ml Ryan wasn't all that popular with the DLS players & I don't think he has what it takes to take us onto the next level ... ie challenging Tipp & KK

Jeddah

Im sure that they are taking soundings from some of the senior players on the panel , to avoid any upheavable with the next appointment. Also im sure the sponsors are going to want someone with a national profile. All this leads me to think that Allen might get the job. Wouldnt be my first choice but in my view the way the managers role has changed in the last few years with the manager much like the manager in rugby , it is who he brings with him in the key roles of trainer/coach and on the physical side of things which will be important. We have seen this in both Kilkenny and Tipperary.

The blue blaa

Just wondering if their are any way we could have a poll of the managers that have not ruled themselves out ie Michael Ryan,John Allen, and maybe people could mention a few more Waterford men they might like to see take charge an we see more clearly who the supporters want??

Daysha

The blue blaa wrote: »

Just wondering if their are any way we could have a poll of the managers that have not ruled themselves out ie Michael Ryan,John Allen, and maybe people could mention a few more Waterford men they might like to see take charge an we see more clearly who the supporters want??

That can be done!

Edit: I've made the poll with only those who have been backed as realistic contenders in various newspapers. I don't think there's any point adding in marquee names like O'Grady or Sheedy unless we hear something to the contrary.

Cake Man

Jeddah wrote: »

Im sure that they are taking soundings from some of the senior players on the panel , to avoid any upheavable with the next appointment. Also im sure the sponsors are going to want someone with a national profile. All this leads me to think that Allen might get the job. Wouldnt be my first choice but in my view the way the managers role has changed in the last few years with the manager much like the manager in rugby , it is who he brings with him in the key roles of trainer/coach and on the physical side of things which will be important. We have seen this in both Kilkenny and Tipperary.

Was wondering about this aspect and thought it mightn't be a bad idea to have 1 or 2 from the panel (Mullane/Brick/Molumphy/Tony etc.) to go along to the meetings just to keep them in the loop on what's going on and leave them give their input and opinions of behalf of the panel.
I wouldn't mind seeing Allen at all lads. I don't see why some are quick to put him down and say that he didn't have to do much when guiding Cork to AI a few years back, that's a bit harsh. I feel he'd be someone the players would like to have and he'd command full respect.
If finances aren't there then fair enough but if we are to go from someone outside the county then Allen would be my first choice (assuming O'Grady isn't available! :pac:)

The blue blaa

I'd like to see John Allen come in,some people here suggested he inherited an all-ireland team but if you check out his backround he was involved in the back room for a few years so he's certainly got the experience of the up's and down's his Cv is perfect for us,after all were not exactly a star attraction to many top guys with experience of All-Ireland glory..
here's a litle bit info..

In retirement from playing Allen became involved in coaching various teams at all levels. From 1999 until 2001 he served as masseur with the Cork senior hurling team.[2] During that period the team collected two Munster titles, as well as an All-Ireland title. He opted out for a year in 2002 but returned as a selector in 2003. That year Cork won the Munster title again, however, they lost out to Kilkenny in the All-Ireland final. The following year Allen was still a selector when Cork lost their Munster crown but won the All-Ireland title following a victory over Kilkenny. In late October 2004 Allen succeeded Donal O'Grady as the Cork manager for a two-year term and was immediately charged with the task of guiding the team to a second consecutive All-Ireland title for the 2005 Championship

And in Defence to Michael Ryan someone said not all De La Salle players were behind him,Scully was an absolute gent imo and a great motivator at getting the best out of lads and the dls players that worked wit him wit the county team put his name forward for the dls job so he was obviously well liked within the county senior panel..

lovelypoint

comeraghs wrote: »

Has Donal O'Grady come out & said he isn't interested! He'd be a great manager .... far better than John Allen if we go for an outsider.

What about Kevin Ryan? has he said yes or no?

Ml Ryan wasn't all that popular with the DLS players & I don't think he has what it takes to take us onto the next level ... ie challenging Tipp & KK

Funnily enough, I would have thought the same thing, prior to him taking up the Limerick job, but must say I was surprised to see him adopt a similar running/ short passing game with Limerick, as he had with Cork. That made me wonder about what Donal might bring to a set-up, and if such tactics are really the way to tackle the adopted styles of KK, Tipp and even Dublin, which are increasing pervasive in the game these days.

He was definitely a success in Limerick, but then again they were coming from a very low point and are now back to a similar position as they would have been, prior to the fallout from Justin's time there.

In any case, I don't think there is a hope in hell O'Grady would be interested in the Waterford job, but I guess what I am really asking is would others in Waterford be happy if we did get O'Grady and he brought a short passing/ running game to Waterford hurling ?

Professey Chin

Id be delighted with that kinda game. It suits our style more then the fighting type and one of our biggest problems the last few years is we havent had anyone running off the ball, into open space or at all! Players have been sitting back and waiting for the ball to come to them.
People are constantly worried about the physical game and beating other teams at it. Fcuk it! make our own game and beat them with that instead of trying to play theirs. We've seen how that attempt went in 08

Mountainlad

lovelypoint wrote: »

Funnily enough, I would have thought the same thing, prior to him taking up the Limerick job, but must say I was surprised to see him adopt a similar running/ short passing game with Limerick, as he had with Cork. That made me wonder about what Donal might bring to a set-up, and if such tactics are really the way to tackle the adopted styles of KK, Tipp and even Dublin, which are increasing pervasive in the game these days.

He was definitely a success in Limerick, but then again they were coming from a very low point and are now back to a similar position as they would have been, prior to the fallout from Justin's time there.

In any case, I don't think there is a hope in hell O'Grady would be interested in the Waterford job, but I guess what I am really asking is would others in Waterford be happy if we did get O'Grady and he brought a short passing/ running game to Waterford hurling ?

I wouldn't question O'Grady in terms of his achievements, and his adopted approach to how he manages a team i.e. punctual traini9ng attendances and penalties for those who are late, and a professional approach that leaves nothing to chance. However, I agree about the style aspect of things. I just don't know that it would suit us, and it's not a sustainable philosphy, as you can see plenty of Cork players have lost it and some aren't even thirty yet, whereas Tony Browne is still playing well (I know he's the exception rather than the rule, but look at Mullane too).

And we don't have the money for him anyway so...

Et Cetera

Michael Ryan in charge would put us back to the stone age. This can't be a direction to take

lovelypoint

Mountainlad wrote: »

I wouldn't question O'Grady in terms of his achievements, and his adopted approach to how he manages a team i.e. punctual traini9ng attendances and penalties for those who are late, and a professional approach that leaves nothing to chance. However, I agree about the style aspect of things. I just don't know that it would suit us, and it's not a sustainable philosphy, as you can see plenty of Cork players have lost it and some aren't even thirty yet, whereas Tony Browne is still playing well (I know he's the exception rather than the rule, but look at Mullane too).

And we don't have the money for him anyway so...

I agree, its all a bit academic, as if we couldn't afford Donal in the past, we certainly can't now. I also agree re: all he brings, no stone is left unturned it would seem, but his adherence to the short passing/ running game makes me question things as I'm not sure that sort of game would be suitable for us (were he ever to come to Waterford).

Off the top of my head, the following would be the key priorities for me in terms of whatever new man is coming in:

- Touch and attacking play. Both have suffered for too long, and need to be rectified
- Defense. Full back line and goalkeeper need to play as one line. This hasn't happened and we've suffered for it.
- Full back position. 2- 3 players need specialist training in this position, otherwise we'll never sort it out.
- Half forward line. Lack of aerial prowess and primary ball winning ability is notable, and critical at this point.
- Development of youth. Minor and U21 hurlers needed to brought on, and maximum usage made of any upcoming talent.