Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Mr Tibbs

You would have to wonder how Iggy was picked ahead of SOK. Last year Adrian Power walked off the panel when Steven was picked ahead of him and now we have the same situation with Steven. All of sudden he is deemed not good enough. I thought he was by far the better goalie in the challenge match in the Davin Park in Carrick against Tipp. Hope this decision doesn't backfire but a lot of people I know said this is what will happen and Clare will take us to the cleaners. I really hope they are proven wrong because I have sided with Scully in a row with one fellow who has predicted doom and gloom for us this year. Clare have their injury worries as well as us so I would like to think this is still a 50/50 game. In the challenge game in Carrick when Maurice and Darragh Fives were taken off Tipp got on top and won by a few points. Maurice was like a magnet that night catching every ball that came his way. The result did not really worry me as I was quite pleased with what I saw but the loss of Shane Fives is another serious blow we could do without as the two brothers really linked up very well that night. Fingers crossed for Sunday so and hope we get some nice weather also.

The blue blaa

SOK should be on the goal, Iggy had his chance and he's not at inter county standard. Poor puck outs and people who say he's a good shot stopper maybe from 20+ metres but that's an attribute all senior club goalkeepers should have anyway. He's a great lad great attitude all round nice guy nothing against him but he's not county standard. Maybe the reason Sok not starting has to do wit workin under Fitzy before does he have a weakness on him??? Being an ex goalie an the manager who gave him his waterford debut I can't think of a reason as to why they haven't picked him, I know Sok can have problems concentrating at times but he will grow out of this with experience but for me it's a no brainer he's the best we have.

Hidalgo

robopaddy wrote: »

There is this big fear of Clare that I see here that I've never seen before. Its not like were up against the team of 1998. Fair enough they are a team on the up but are effectively a team of rookies a lot like ourselves with it all to prove, but we still have plenty experience and leadership, lads like Moran, Brick, O'Sullivan & Prendergast, an area in which Clare are completely lacking.
People point to their recent underage success but Ive had a look at the Munster minor championship since 2009 weve played them 7 times, beaten them on 5 occasions and theve only beaten us twice (granted both Munster Finals) so I dont see how they can be so far ahead on that department either.
We beat them in the league up in Ennis remember and people had us written off there aswell and we were actually good value for our win. I can understand certain amount of apprehension but I dont think we are near as bad as people here are saying we are nor are Clare as good. this talk of a hammering is way off the mark.

50/50 game. Waterford Clare games always are

Probably a tight game in store, few points either side is all I see being in it.
Regarding the bit in bold, u21 is probably a better indicator, when the 2 sides met at minor, games were in general tight for the majority of the game, yet the likes of last year at 21s, Waterford were well beaten in Ennis, that was a big drop from minor.



Like last year's game, if the Waterford HB line get on top, they could be on their way, last year and in the League game in Ennis this year, Clare struggled in this region

alllcounty

Mountainlad wrote: »

There's been a lot of criticism of SOK's short puckouts against Kilkenny, and to be honest I actually don't agree with a lot of it. He made one mistake in hitting one to Daniels when it probably wasn't on, but at the same time Daniels was asleep and so not blameless in that regard. Most of the scores we yielded came from long range efforts with the wind. We've big hitters in Nagle, Moran, Sully and now Darragh Fives as well, so it's something we should use to our advantage. Will Iggy be able to find thos lads short, the midfielders if they drop and look for them? I think SOK is better at this and so we're already at a disadvantage in that sense by not playing him. That's the way I see it now but time will tell whether that proves to be the case.

In fairness SOK had a poor league culminating in the game against Kilkenny where 2-5 was conceded from stupid short puckouts. Because Kilkenny, Galway or whoever push their midfield out to our half backs, move their half forwards to midfield and then use their full forward line to split our full and half backs is not a reason for us to hit short puckouts putting us under terrible pressure at the very back. Time and time again I have seen SOK hit short puckouts to our full back line only for the opposition full forward line to sprint in and put the waterford backs under immediate pressure. Sometimes they can't get the shot in and try and walk the ball out of defence resulting in possession being turned over.

If they do get the shot in they are doing so under pressure and the ball is landing no further than if our goalie had hit the ball himself under no pressure. There is no logic to short puckouts, its a lose lose situation. That is the main reason why SOK lost the number 1 position. Maybe he is under instruction from Cunningham as he used a short passing game with UL and so SOK was doing what he was instructed to do. I did however notice against Tipperary there were no short puckouts when IOR played in a game we won so you can draw your own conclusions from that.

Hidalgo

alllcounty wrote: »

In fairness SOK had a poor league culminating in the game against Kilkenny where 2-5 was conceded from stupid short puckouts. Because Kilkenny, Galway or whoever push their midfield out to our half backs, move their half forwards to midfield and then use their full forward line to split our full and half backs is not a reason for us to hit short puckouts putting us under terrible pressure at the very back. Time and time again I have seen SOK hit short puckouts to our full back line only for the opposition full forward line to sprint in and put the waterford backs under immediate pressure. Sometimes they can't get the shot in and try and walk the ball out of defence resulting in possession being turned over.

If they do get the shot in they are doing so under pressure and the ball is landing no further than if our goalie had hit the ball himself under no pressure. There is no logic to short puckouts, its a lose lose situation. That is the main reason why SOK lost the number 1 position. Maybe he is under instruction from Cunningham as he used a short passing game with UL and so SOK was doing what he was instructed to do. I did however notice against Tipperary there were no short puckouts when IOR played in a game we won so you can draw your own conclusions from that.

Waterford going with short puck outs V Clare would be a strange one, fair enough V a team like KK with such a dominant HB line, Clare's is nowhere near that.
Last year, Clare struggled in the HB line for a fair bit of the game till the likes of Donellan fielded a bit of ball in the air.
Clare might have to revert to shorter puck outs on the other hand, but Kelly in goal can pick out a teammate 40-50 yards out.
For me, Waterford definitely hold the advantage of the 2 HBs line, esp if Moran is back there.

Cake Man

Team does seem a bit light if it lines out as posted earlier. You'd imagine Paudie Prender to the corner, Fives to midfield and Moran to wing back. I think I'd prefer this option than wasting Fives in the corner and putting Paudie Prender wing back, think Fives would be more capable of having a bigger influence on the game for us.
Hopefully the forwards will click, we'll need a lot from them especially those making their debuts but going by the league, they seemed to do well so I'd like to think they can carry that form and fearlessness into Sunday.

Many here going to it? It's gonna kill me not being at it.
Does anyone know if there's anywhere online that would be streaming the match from outside Ireland? Long shot I know but said I'd ask...

alllcounty

Hidalgo wrote: »

Probably a tight game in store, few points either side is all I see being in it.
Regarding the bit in bold, u21 is probably a better indicator, when the 2 sides met at minor, games were in general tight for the majority of the game, yet the likes of last year at 21s, Waterford were well beaten in Ennis, that was a big drop from minor.

Like last year's game, if the Waterford HB line get on top, they could be on their way, last year and in the League game in Ennis this year, Clare struggled in this region

I wouldn't look too much in comparing the U21 performances between the two counties as management of the waterford teams have alot to do with poorly performing U21 sides we have sent out in the last 3 years. Both counties seem to now be producing a conveyer belt of good underage players at minor level in the last 5 years where in the prior 10 years a win at minor grade was very rare for both counties. This has now led to good young players on both teams on Sunday with the potential to catch up with the big two in the next few years.

ManFromCheese

what has cunninghams role being since he joined the set up, is he there often etc?

robopaddy

Todayfm's John Duggan has backed Clare in his tip of the week. Thank God for that!! Kiss of death that fellah has....

Mountainlad

Intermediate team for Sunday.

1. Darren Duggan Dungarvan
2. Colin Walsh Ballinameela
3 Stephen O'Keeffe Ballygunner
4. Shane Roche Shamrocks
5. Jason Roche Passage
6. Kieran Power Clonea
7. Shane Kearney Dungarvan
8. Eamonn Murphy Dunhill
9. Shane Ryan Fourmilewater
10. Cormac Heffernan Ferrybank CAPTAIN
11. Jack Lyons Ballyduff Lower
12. Jim Power Butlerstown
13. Killian Fitzgerald Passage
14. Stephen Roche Mount Sion
15. Ryan Donnelly Dungarvan


Nearly all u21s bar Killian Fitzgerald, Shane Kearney and possibly Jason Roche.

3ships

From Clare fm



Davy Fitzgerald has named three Championship debutants for Sunday's Munster Championship clash with Waterford.
Cratloe's Conor Ryan, Tulla's David McInerney and Eire Óg's Shane O'Donnell will all get their first start in the Munster Championship at Semple Stadium on Sunday
So the team in full David McInerney is partnered by Clonlara's Domhnall O'Donovan and Seadna Morey of Sixmilebridge on the full back line.
Whitegate's Brendan Bugler, Patrick O Donnellan - of O'Callaghans Mills who captains the side and Tubber's Patrick O'Connor at half back.
Clonlara's Colm Galvin and Cratloe's Conor Ryan are in midfield.
Tony Kelly of Ballyea is flanked by Clonlara's John Conlon and Colin Ryan of Newmarket on Fergus on the half forward line.
While Cratloe's Padraic Collins, Eire Og's Shane O'Donnell and Conor
McGrath - Cratloe make up the full forwards with Patrick Kelly of Inagh-Kilnamona in goal.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Intermediate team for Sunday.

1. Darren Duggan Dungarvan
2. Colin Walsh Ballinameela
3 Stephen O'Keeffe Ballygunner
4. Shane Roche Shamrocks
5. Jason Roche Passage
6. Kieran Power Clonea
7. Shane Kearney Dungarvan
8. Eamonn Murphy Dunhill
9. Shane Ryan Fourmilewater
10. Cormac Heffernan Ferrybank CAPTAIN
11. Jack Lyons Ballyduff Lower
12. Jim Power Butlerstown
13. Killian Fitzgerald Passage
14. Stephen Roche Mount Sion
15. Ryan Donnelly Dungarvan


Nearly all u21s bar Killian Fitzgerald, Shane Kearney and possibly Jason Roche.

Probably the right idea to tie this grade in with the U21s given the time and resources involved in preparing a u21 county team for only one championship game. I think the intermediate team dosent really serve huge purpose in a small county like Waterford anyway so I think this is the way forward. I wouldnt be expecting much from this team but lets just see how it goes

HillFarmer

Cake Man wrote: »

Team does seem a bit light if it lines out as posted earlier. You'd imagine Paudie Prender to the corner, Fives to midfield and Moran to wing back. I think I'd prefer this option than wasting Fives in the corner and putting Paudie Prender wing back, think Fives would be more capable of having a bigger influence on the game for us.
Hopefully the forwards will click, we'll need a lot from them especially those making their debuts but going by the league, they seemed to do well so I'd like to think they can carry that form and fearlessness into Sunday.

Many here going to it? It's gonna kill me not being at it.
Does anyone know if there's anywhere online that would be streaming the match from outside Ireland? Long shot I know but said I'd ask...

I'm heading in to scruffys to watch it

Deise_2012

Mountainlad wrote: »

Intermediate team for Sunday.

1. Darren Duggan Dungarvan
2. Colin Walsh Ballinameela
3 Stephen O'Keeffe Ballygunner
4. Shane Roche Shamrocks
5. Jason Roche Passage
6. Kieran Power Clonea
7. Shane Kearney Dungarvan
8. Eamonn Murphy Dunhill
9. Shane Ryan Fourmilewater
10. Cormac Heffernan Ferrybank CAPTAIN
11. Jack Lyons Ballyduff Lower
12. Jim Power Butlerstown
13. Killian Fitzgerald Passage
14. Stephen Roche Mount Sion
15. Ryan Donnelly Dungarvan


Nearly all u21s bar Killian Fitzgerald, Shane Kearney and possibly Jason Roche.

interesting enough they named donnelly corner forward and he's sitting the leaving cert 3 days later

Cake Man

Mountainlad wrote: »

Intermediate team for Sunday.

1. Darren Duggan Dungarvan
2. Colin Walsh Ballinameela
3 Stephen O'Keeffe Ballygunner
4. Shane Roche Shamrocks
5. Jason Roche Passage
6. Kieran Power Clonea
7. Shane Kearney Dungarvan
8. Eamonn Murphy Dunhill
9. Shane Ryan Fourmilewater
10. Cormac Heffernan Ferrybank CAPTAIN
11. Jack Lyons Ballyduff Lower
12. Jim Power Butlerstown
13. Killian Fitzgerald Passage
14. Stephen Roche Mount Sion
15. Ryan Donnelly Dungarvan


Nearly all u21s bar Killian Fitzgerald, Shane Kearney and possibly Jason Roche.

Good idea to keep the intermediate as a platform to keep the U21's together playing competitive games. Some good players on that team. Fairly sure Jason Roche played minor last year.

I'm heading in to scruffys to watch it

Was thinking Scruffy's meself!

jive

3ships wrote: »

From Clare fm



Davy Fitzgerald has named three Championship debutants for Sunday's Munster Championship clash with Waterford.
Cratloe's Conor Ryan, Tulla's David McInerney and Eire Óg's Shane O'Donnell will all get their first start in the Munster Championship at Semple Stadium on Sunday
So the team in full David McInerney is partnered by Clonlara's Domhnall O'Donovan and Seadna Morey of Sixmilebridge on the full back line.
Whitegate's Brendan Bugler, Patrick O Donnellan - of O'Callaghans Mills who captains the side and Tubber's Patrick O'Connor at half back.
Clonlara's Colm Galvin and Cratloe's Conor Ryan are in midfield.
Tony Kelly of Ballyea is flanked by Clonlara's John Conlon and Colin Ryan of Newmarket on Fergus on the half forward line.
While Cratloe's Padraic Collins, Eire Og's Shane O'Donnell and Conor
McGrath - Cratloe make up the full forwards with Patrick Kelly of Inagh-Kilnamona in goal.

Fairly happy to see Honan isn't getting a start from a Waterford perspective tbh

alllcounty

jive wrote: »

Fairly happy to see Honan isn't getting a start from a Waterford perspective tbh

That's assuming Davy doesn't make changes to the team before throw in and bring him in instead of Podge Collins. I recken Honan will start.

deisefolife

alllcounty wrote: »

That's assuming Davy doesn't make changes to the team before throw in and bring him in instead of Podge Collins. I recken Honan will start.

Of course Davy will make changes to the team. its Davy he still has the same tactics.

just a new team to use them on

robopaddy

jive wrote: »

Fairly happy to see Honan isn't getting a start from a Waterford perspective tbh

If hes that good why isnt he starting in the first place?

He looked good in 09 for their u21s and scored a good goal against us in Thurles in the championship in 10'. Thats 3 years ago and anytime Ive seen him since I thought he was poor.

He might prove me wrong on Sunday but hasnt lived anywhere near to his potential as far as i can see

Mountainlad

robopaddy wrote: »

If hes that good why isnt he starting in the first place?

He looked good in 09 for their u21s and scored a good goal against us in Thurles in the championship in 10'. Thats 3 years ago and anytime Ive seen him since I thought he was poor.

He might prove me wrong on Sunday but hasnt lived anywhere near to his potential as far as i can see

Has had his trouble with injuries, was only just returning last year and if he had a bit of hurling done he probably would have won them the game.

I think he will start and will play full forward.

Hidalgo

Mountainlad wrote: »

Has had his trouble with injuries, was only just returning last year and if he had a bit of hurling done he probably would have won them the game.

I think he will start and will play full forward.

Ya he's had a lot of injuries, he's been training most of the league but used very sparingly. I'm assuming he'll start.
There's been games in the last few years where he's been playing and nowhere near match fitness.

f I was a Waterford man I'd prefer to see Paudge Collins start over Honan

deisedevil

Deise_2012 wrote: »

interesting enough they named donnelly corner forward and he's sitting the leaving cert 3 days later

He's more interested in hurling than the Leaving.

alllcounty

deisedevil wrote: »

He's more interested in hurling than the Leaving.

You'd need to have a decent Leaving if you want to play freshers and fitzgibbon hurling. If John Dee had played fitzgibbon he'd proberly slot in at coner back on Sunday.

Deise_2012

alllcounty wrote: »

You'd need to have a decent Leaving if you want to play freshers and fitzgibbon hurling. If John Dee had played fitzgibbon he'd proberly slot in at coner back on Sunday.

Ah i doubt that, he couldn't start for the u21s last year sure

robopaddy

alllcounty wrote: »

You'd need to have a decent Leaving if you want to play freshers and fitzgibbon hurling. If John Dee had played fitzgibbon he'd proberly slot in at coner back on Sunday.

sorry but thats rubbish

Psychedelic

I love this guy:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/ryan-old-school-and-proud-of-it-29309852.html

glick6

"Lads, there's people saying we've only five players starting from this game last year. Do they think we've just picked ten new players out of the buy and sell or something?"

KevIRL

glick6 wrote: »

"Lads, there's people saying we've only five players starting from this game last year. Do they think we've just picked ten new players out of the buy and sell or something?"

Its a standard enough comparison and one thats made across all sorts of different sports and does show how much transition is happening on the Waterford team. I dont think people are saying this is the first time these players have played for the county but just its sign of how much change is going on. Even Mullane references it at the start of this preview

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/809/453856/

Mountainlad

glick6 wrote: »

"Lads, there's people saying we've only five players starting from this game last year. Do they think we've just picked ten new players out of the buy and sell or something?"

If we had a fully fit squad I'd be confident in saying it's actually a better team out there this year.

I would take Dillon and Barron ahead of Eoin Kelly (based on his performance last year against Clare) and GOB. Jamie Nagle is also a better hurler than Richie Foley (yeah you heard me, deal with it).

And as much as we miss Molumphy, I think a midfield of Shane O'Sullivan and Darragh Fives provides a scoring threat we didn't have last year and two players who are good in the air.

If Shane Fives or Daniels was there we'd have a much better defense than last year, but even as it stands Paudie Prender is a good hurler and Ringo was very poor last year.

Many people don't seem to recognize that Mullane's role in the team changed last year. He became more of a creater than a finisher. He was out the field to win ball in the Clare and Cork games, and used his pace to take on players further out the field. I feel that Brian O'Halloran has shown in the league that he is more than capable of assuming that role in the team. One thing the forward line does lack in comparison to last year is the experience and 'that catch' or crucial moment of leadership or spark that say Mullane or Shane Walsh could bring. Hopefully Maurice and Mahony can step up in that regard and help the young lads around them, and that Seamus will keep up the form he's shown in the past year and a half.

We can certainly win this game, despite what the unanimous claim that Clare will win from outside observers. After all, we have Brick and Moran, that in itself goes along way to winning a game like this!

blue note

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/d%C3%A9ise-s-new-generation-bring-some-fresh-hope-1.1410520

Good preview of the match and interview with Ken here from yesterday's times.

I was surprised to read that Tony is the only player we have left from our 2002-2010 Munster winning teams. I was also surprised that there are 10 changes to the side that lost to Clare last year.

A very surprising read!