Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

deisedude

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Calamity O'Keefe does it again. What a shame when the likes of Adrian Power is not even on the panel. We were beaten by a very poor Kilkenny side today and now we are looking at a dogfight for relegation.

It was Powers decision last year to walk from the panel. Big fan of Power but seen him concede some clangers too

Formosa

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Wasnt at the match and didnt get to listen either, were the 2 goals Kilkenny scored a result of goalkeeping errors? Looks like we led for 60 mins of the 70.

First goal was buried but second was dropped by O'Keeffe & flicked in. It came at a stage where Kilkenny were labouring.

cleaboy boy

Won't ever blame a player due to the commitment they give to the jersey but a solid goalkeeper has been the downfall of many a Waterford team. Still in the mix with 2 home games to come is one positive.

seananigans

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Won't ever blame a player due to the commitment they give to the jersey but a solid goalkeeper has been the downfall of many a Waterford team. Still in the mix with 2 home games to come is one positive.

I would call that one hell of a performance, for some reason when the conditions changed they weren't as good in the wet, such a shame, if it had been over at 55 minutes it would be considered a classic

willietherock

Paudie Pendergast looked good

alllcounty

Good performance from waterford, especially the backs and special mention to Paudi Prendergast who didn't look out of place in midfield.

However the biggest talking point from a waterford perspective is the constant short puckouts by Stephen O'Keefe to the full back line, constantly putting our backs under pressure. I lost count how many times the ball was intercepted deep on our own back line as a result. The two goals we conceded came from it and at least 5 points came from doing it. He persisted with it constantly throughout the game and I cant make sense of it.

I thought when Davy was gone it would be the end of these short puckouts and putting our defence under pressure. The manager needs to have faith in our half forward line to win the ball in the air. The constant short puckouts was a complete disaster and if it wasn't for that we could have won the game. Can anyone explain why this short puck out is being persisted with?

Mountainlad

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Calamity O'Keefe does it again. What a shame when the likes of Adrian Power is not even on the panel. We were beaten by a very poor Kilkenny side today and now we are looking at a dogfight for relegation.

Terrible thing to say about such a promising young keeper. The first goal was a stupid mistake but like he's young and learning and had a few brilliant puck outs, and in fairness he dealt very well with having to clear a few ball under pressure from hand passes he received back to him.


Kilkenny deserved to win, they destroyed us in the last 20 minutes. Our forwards saw nothing in that time, there was no space created and no threat. We didn't cast a human shadow over the goalposts all game. In the first half we had 8 points from play, a lot of them were from inside our own half which was good to see us utilizing the strength of having big hitters but given what was happening win the ball went into the full forward line it seemed inevitable that Kilkenny were going to win second half with the wind behind them.

The backs were good by and large, but Kilkenny somehow managed to create a lot of space particularly at the end, and they would have had a few more goals if the weather had been dry. I thought Brick was superb, and that Shane Sully was very good first half. Brian O Halloran had another very good game and the only forward who was ever present. Seamus tired towards the end, I think himself and Maurice should have been switched when Shane Walsh came off. Paudie Prender did well for a part of the matcg, but we were killed in midfield in the final quarter but matter weren't helped by some members of the half forward line not tracking back well enough.

On a side note, and while I don't feel it had a huge bearing on the result I have to say it's disappointing how hard it is to win a free against Kilkenny in contrast to them winning them. I know this won't sit well with the Kilkenny folk that will no doubt read this, but I felt there was plenty of instances where the man was fouled but nothing was given. They seem to crowd around you and then grab the arm, so that the ref's view is obstructed. I saw it in the second half that one was given where Shane Sully took 5 steps and then cleverly the Kilkenny player grabbed his arm to prevent him placing the ball on his hurley but didn't hold on too long in an attempt to get a free for over carrying, but it was copped that time. Of course, behind me I could hear people bemoaning the free being given and therein lies part of the problem. The ref seemed afraid almost to give frees for fear of how the crowd might react. Typically enough, Aylward or Hogan was penalized in the corner in the second half when they should have been awarded a free in which caused pandemonium in the stand as a chorus of boos reigned down on the ref and then when Fives fouled a few minutes later and they got a free there was an ironic cheer as if Kilkenny had been finding it impossible to get frees

On an similar note, referees are handing out cards like confetti at the moment. Sexton was a joke yesterday in the club final, and a few stupid cards today as well. Can't understand how Seamus got a yellow, and Daniels was hard done by as well which probably didn't help him afterwards because he had to try and be careful and Aylward really dominated after that, even if he was probably getting the better of him anyway.

I wouldn't read too much into the display (which was good for most of the first half and part of the second), it's a league game. We just have to move on and pick up the points elsewhere.

alllcounty

Mountainlad wrote: »

Terrible thing to say about such a promising young keeper. The first goal was a stupid mistake but like he's young and learning and had a few brilliant puck outs, and in fairness he dealt very well with having to clear a few ball under pressure from hand passes he received back to him.


Kilkenny deserved to win, they destroyed us in the last 20 minutes. Our forwards saw nothing in that time, there was no space created and no threat. We didn't cast a human shadow over the goalposts all game. In the first half we had 8 points from play, a lot of them were from inside our own half which was good to see us utilizing the strength of having big hitters but given what was happening win the ball went into the full forward line it seemed inevitable that Kilkenny were going to win second half with the wind behind them.

His puckouts was the single biggest reason why we lost this game. We could't get the ball past half field in the last quarter as ball after ball was being hit out to the full back line puting us under all sorts of pressure. Davy will be happy with that game and will fancy his chances of beating kilkenny next in ennis next week.

WumBuster

Its annoying to be constantly losing games down thru the years due to basic goalkeeping errors. It never seems to happen with other counties. But he's young and entitled to make one or two mistakes lets hope this wont sap his confidence. On balance, we didnt deserve to win today, it was always going to be a huge battle in the last 15 mins to try and close whatever small lead we had out, so thats the second week in a row we have lost or dropped points from a winning position(as in the championship v Cork last year), its no good being a first half team if you arent closing it out.

Black Suir

I know he is a good player, but think the management have to look at Pauric Mahony's roll in the team. I dont think we can have him on the field just to hit frees. His score rate from open play is very poor. I would be thinking of bringing in Maurice Shanahan for him the next day. He can strike a free and is also able to score from play.

There seem to be a few that think O'Keeffe should also be looked at. I think he is grand in goal, chopping and changing a goal keeper can seriously dent his confidence. However, If i was Michael Ryan or one of the selectors, I would be telling him to put the puckouts down on top of the head of Seamus Prendergast or inside the half forward line. This short puck out is dangerous. I have felt with a while that some team was going to get punished. What a pity it was Waterford today.

Black Suir

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Looking at the scoring average this weekend doesn't give me much hope of any home victory as we have the lowest score of all. Sorry to be so cruel to Steven but they were two clanger's he should have nightmare's about, the first goal came from a short pass that went completely astray and came straight back at him with interest with a big thank you from Kilkenny who were finding it sticky going against a Waterford team that were doing quiet well. One point coming away from Nolan Park would have done us but when that second goal went in all hope was lost. Overall tough it wasn't a bad performance from the team but this league is so tight we could find ourselves playing up in Carlow next season. I hope we have some success with our underage teams this year as there is a good bit of talent in the county at the moment. We need underage success for the future or else we will always be chasing our tails.

He will have bad memories in Nolan Park all right. Last year (or was it 2 years ago), I think he made another mistake when there was a lack of communication between him and Wayne Hutchinson and a few soft goals went in.

quintain

Black Suir wrote: »

I know he is a good player, but think the management have to look at Pauric Mahony's roll in the team. I dont think we can have him on the field just to hit frees. His score rate from open play is very poor. I would be thinking of bringing in Maurice Shanahan for him the next day. He can strike a free and is also able to score from play.

There seem to be a few that think O'Keeffe should also be looked at. I think he is grand in goal, chopping and changing a goal keeper can seriously dent his confidence. However, If i was Michael Ryan or one of the selectors, I would be telling him to put the puckouts down on top of the head of Seamus Prendergast or inside the half forward line. This short puck out is dangerous. I have felt with a while that some team was going to get punished. What a pity it was Waterford today.

I agree, can't Jake Dillon take frees as well ? No disrespect intended to any player but I'm not seeing how Pauric is starting on that team at the moment.

I couldn't understand why the goalie was so nervous with the puckouts. At one stage he had Prendergast, dillon and Moran in one area of the pitch and he put a short puckout to his full back line and then they had to try to move the ball on under serious pressure from Kilkenny. It all looked very messy to me

Formosa

Mountainlad wrote: »

Terrible thing to say about such a promising young keeper. The first goal was a stupid mistake but like he's young and learning and had a few brilliant puck outs, and in fairness he dealt very well with having to clear a few ball under pressure from hand passes he received back to him.


Kilkenny deserved to win, they destroyed us in the last 20 minutes. Our forwards saw nothing in that time, there was no space created and no threat. We didn't cast a human shadow over the goalposts all game. In the first half we had 8 points from play, a lot of them were from inside our own half which was good to see us utilizing the strength of having big hitters but given what was happening win the ball went into the full forward line it seemed inevitable that Kilkenny were going to win second half with the wind behind them.

The backs were good by and large, but Kilkenny somehow managed to create a lot of space particularly at the end, and they would have had a few more goals if the weather had been dry. I thought Brick was superb, and that Shane Sully was very good first half. Brian O Halloran had another very good game and the only forward who was ever present. Seamus tired towards the end, I think himself and Maurice should have been switched when Shane Walsh came off. Paudie Prender did well for a part of the matcg, but we were killed in midfield in the final quarter but matter weren't helped by some members of the half forward line not tracking back well enough.

On a side note, and while I don't feel it had a huge bearing on the result I have to say it's disappointing how hard it is to win a free against Kilkenny in contrast to them winning them. I know this won't sit well with the Kilkenny folk that will no doubt read this, but I felt there was plenty of instances where the man was fouled but nothing was given. They seem to crowd around you and then grab the arm, so that the ref's view is obstructed. I saw it in the second half that one was given where Shane Sully took 5 steps and then cleverly the Kilkenny player grabbed his arm to prevent him placing the ball on his hurley but didn't hold on too long in an attempt to get a free for over carrying, but it was copped that time. Of course, behind me I could hear people bemoaning the free being given and therein lies part of the problem. The ref seemed afraid almost to give frees for fear of how the crowd might react. Typically enough, Aylward or Hogan was penalized in the corner in the second half when they should have been awarded a free in which caused pandemonium in the stand as a chorus of boos reigned down on the ref and then when Fives fouled a few minutes later and they got a free there was an ironic cheer as if Kilkenny had been finding it impossible to get frees

On an similar note, referees are handing out cards like confetti at the moment. Sexton was a joke yesterday in the club final, and a few stupid cards today as well. Can't understand how Seamus got a yellow, and Daniels was hard done by as well which probably didn't help him afterwards because he had to try and be careful and Aylward really dominated after that, even if he was probably getting the better of him anyway.

I wouldn't read too much into the display (which was good for most of the first half and part of the second), it's a league game. We just have to move on and pick up the points elsewhere.

Well I'm a Kilkenny man and I agree with you, I felt that McGrath was very hard on Waterford in that he could have given them a lot more frees, KK seemed to get away with a lot of fouling, particularly in the first half.
I made this point to my father after and he disagreed, citing the free out blown against Fennelly in the second half, when the crowd went crazy (I could see that well enough to make a call on it one war or the other)...but that was just one incident where on the face of it KK were hard done by,in the main I thought we got most of the calls, and obviously Waterford were too outm=numbered in the stands to be heard on this.

However, WD were the architects of their own downfall with the obsession with short puckouts, several times it too 3 or 4 "plays" to land the ball down to ye're half forward line when the goalie would have pucked it as far himself.

From A KK perspective, very good showing from Lester Ryan (again) and Aylward is a right livewire, albeit very inexperienced. If the two of these come through, it will have been a productive league once the big guns come back. We also saw, not that we needed reminding, that the Mark Bergins & Matt Ruths (big favourite of Codys for obvious reasons) just aren't up to it.

Mountainlad

Formosa wrote: »

Well I'm a Kilkenny man and I agree with you, I felt that McGrath was very hard on Waterford in that he could have given them a lot more frees, KK seemed to get away with a lot of fouling, particularly in the first half.
I made this point to my father after and he disagreed, citing the free out blown against Fennelly in the second half, when the crowd went crazy (I could see that well enough to make a call on it one war or the other)...but that was just one incident where on the face of it KK were hard done by,in the main I thought we got most of the calls, and obviously Waterford were too outm=numbered in the stands to be heard on this.

However, WD were the architects of their own downfall with the obsession with short puckouts, several times it too 3 or 4 "plays" to land the ball down to ye're half forward line when the goalie would have pucked it as far himself.

From A KK perspective, very good showing from Lester Ryan (again) and Aylward is a right livewire, albeit very inexperienced. If the two of these come through, it will have been a productive league once the big guns come back. We also saw, not that we needed reminding, that the Mark Bergins & Matt Ruths (big favourite of Codys for obvious reasons) just aren't up to it.

I hope I didn't come across as overly critical of the Kilkenny public and fairplay on your assessment, you wouldn't let bias cloud your judgement unlike myself.

On the short puckouts, I can see the point in not pucking the ball straight down on top of a half back line with Hogan and particularly Tommy Walsh in it. We only have one ball winner there in Seamus Prender, so it wasn't hard for them to double up on him.

I would say though that when the conditions deteriorated in the second half we should have used the short puckout sparingly because it could easily lead to a disaster as controlling the ball first time becomes more difficult. The opposite seemed to happen however, as we used it very frequently in the second half. It was a good strategy first half because it meant we good use out big hitters to either bypass the half back line or go for their own scores, but once things changed and we were against the wind there was no alteration. Any game plan must be adaptable and ours was not today.

robopaddy

anyone that has monitored okeeffes progress from underage level will tell you that hes always been prone to some daft decision making and unfortunately the bad habits seemed to have followed him right through to adult level. not a good sign. i see people saying he shouldnt be dropped as it would knock his confidence but i wouldnt be as sure. i think the lad needs a real kick in the backside at this stage. hes either up to it or hes not and we cant sit around watching him making these gaffes while we wait gor him to reach his potential.

ManFromCheese

willietherock wrote: »

Paudie Pendergast looked good

strange how we have lads on our starting team that cannot make their college fitzgibbon teams, hes a handy hurler alright at club level, but it wouldnt happen in kk, tipp, galway or cork for example. fitzgibbon is as close to intercounty senior hurling that you'll get and really lads need to be making their college teams if they are to be considered for the county senior panel, nevermind starting 15.

Local_Chap

ManFromCheese wrote: »

strange how we have lads on our starting team that cannot make their college fitzgibbon teams, hes a handy hurler alright at club level, but it wouldnt happen in kk, tipp, galway or cork for example. fitzgibbon is as close to intercounty senior hurling that you'll get and really lads need to be making their college teams if they are to be considered for the county senior panel, nevermind starting 15.

Just on that point,was Killean Fitzgerrald starting for Mary I or is he finished college?

ManFromCheese

Local_Chap wrote: »

Just on that point,was Killean Fitzgerrald starting for Mary I or is he finished college?

he started the semi final v WIT but i think was dropped for the final when Mary I started Conor Cooney who hadnt played the semi due to st thomas commitments.

Giveitfong

For all Kilkenny’s domination of the last quarter of this game, were it not for Stephen O’Keefe gifting them two goals Waterford could well have won. This is the third game in a row in which O’Keeffe has made ridiculous errors and you can’t have that at this level.


I can understand why Waterford made a lot of use of the short puckout in the second half when they were playing against the strong wind and were unable to win any possession in the half forward line. However, short puckouts made no sense in the first half when Waterford had the wind at their back.


While we should give great credit to the selectors for the great spirit being displayed by the players, and their attempts to play constructive hurling with good passing movements, some of the tactical aspects are baffling. Last week we had only two players in the full forward line when playing with a gale force wind.



Today, O’Keeffe in the first half kept playing low-trajectory puckouts looking mainly for Seamus Prendergast in the half-forward line.



Unfortunately Seamus was not nearly as sharp as he was last week. Not once did O’Keeffe try a high-trajectory puckout which would have got the ball beyond the half forward line and into the space betweeh the half forwards and full forwards which might have given Brian O’Sullivan in particular some chance of getting possession.


It was also hard to understand why Maurice Shanahan was placed at full forward when he came on when we were unable to gain any possession in the half forward line. That made no sense at all.


On the positive side, once again I thought the defence played very well as a unit. While Brick was our man of the match, I thought Shane Fives was terrific and once again Liam Lawlor played very well at full back. While Jamie Nagle was unable to compete with Eoin Larkin in the air in the first half, overall he played very well.



It took Paudie Prendergast a while to get going but he had a great second quarter and while he disappeared again in the third quarter he came back into it when moved to wing back late in the game. On the question of his not getting into the UCC Fitzgibbon Cup team, it has to be acknowledged that UCC had a really strong half back line this year. Paudie was their best player at Freshers level last year and is still only a second year player.



I think Brian O’Halloran is being a bit over-hyped at the moment. He did have a very good game against Clare in good playing conditions, but was largely anonymous for Mary Immaculate College in the Fitzgibbon Cup, played very little ball against Cork and today, apart from one lovely point, he rarely threatened the Kilkenny defence. However, I expect a big improvement from him when the sod firms up.


At the moment, we are a bit lightweight up front, especially with Pauric Mahony making very little contribution from general play (apart from his tendency to miss handy frees at crucial stages). Perhaps the selectors might consider throwing Cormac Heffernan in the next day – he scored two very good goals today in the under-21 challenge which followed the senior game.

Giveitfong

Under 21 challenge: Kilkenny 4-28 Waterford 3-17

Waterford got off to a great start in this challenge which followed the senior game in Nowlan Park today, with full forward Cormac Heffernan twice finishing decisively to the net in the first two minutes following excellent approach play by the Waterford forwards.

Waterford dominated the first 20 minutes of the game with De La Salle’s Shane McNulty giving a master class at centre back, ably abetted by his wing backs Ray Barry (who came on as a late sub in the senior game) and Shane (I think) Roche of Shamrocks. In midfield, Waterford were also well on top with Dunhill’s Eamon Murphy and Mount Sion’s Stephen Roche playing a lot of ball. However, over-elaboration among the forwards meant that a lot of good possession was wasted.

Kilkenny eventually got to grips with the game and, with wind assistance, sent over a flurry of points while they also got through for a couple of goals and also produced a couple of great saves by Seanie Barry in the Waterford goal. Eamon Murphy shipped an injury when bravely trying to set up a goal chance for Waterford and was still hanging around the Kilkenny goal area when he got at the end of another good Waterford attacking movement to bag his team’s third goal. However, he then went off which considerably weakened the Waterford team.

At half time Kilkenny led by something like 2-13 to 3-4. With the wind at their backs in the second half, we expected Waterford to get back into contention, but Kilkenny greatly upped their game and their ability to win ball in the air in the middle third led to a procession of points and two further goals.

With both teams making lots of substitutions the game became very loose and disorganised. Waterford kept battling away with Gavin O’Brien in particular impressing with a series of fine points. He really should be given a run at midfield or in the half forwards for the seniors. Overall, Waterford’s best player was Ray Barry who gave a strong performance right through at right half back.

An interesting feature of the team was the placing of Kilrossanty’s Kieran Power, a member of last year’s Dungarvan Colleges Harty Cup winning team, at full back where he performed very creditably indeed.

Speaking of which, I believe that Dungarvan Colleges’s Hogan Cup semi-final against St Kieran’s of Kilkenny will be played next Saturday in Thurles as part of a double bill, with Kilkenny CBS playing against Mercy Colleges of Galway in the other semi-final. Earlier today Waterford beat Kilkenny in a minor challenge, but it is noteworthy that while the Dungarvan Colleges contingent played for Waterford, no players from St Kieran’s or Kilkenny CBS played for the Cats. I believe that all the Dungarvan players got through the game without injury.

I don’t know how many first team players were missing from the Kilkenny Under 21 team today, but Waterford were missing Darragh Fives, JakeDillon, Pauric Mahony, Jamie Barron, Paudie Prendergast and Eoin Madigan. I don’t know if Barry Coughlan and Killian Fitzgerald (both senior subs today) are under 21.

Other players who figured at some stage on the Waterford team were Donie Breathnach (An Rinn), Shane (I think) Ryan (Fourmilewater), Barry O’Sullivan (Ballygunner), Kieran Bennett (Ballysaggart), Colin Walsh (Ballinameela) and Jim Power (Butlerstown). There were a couple of others whose names I can’t remember.

robopaddy

ManFromCheese wrote: »

strange how we have lads on our starting team that cannot make their college fitzgibbon teams, hes a handy hurler alright at club level, but it wouldnt happen in kk, tipp, galway or cork for example. fitzgibbon is as close to intercounty senior hurling that you'll get and really lads need to be making their college teams if they are to be considered for the county senior panel, nevermind starting 15.

so your basically saying that a lad should not be considered no matter how well hes playing or how much potential he has just because he was not starting with his college team, in a competition that only last for 3 or 4 weeks anyway? We are not Tipp, KK, Galway or Cork we cannot do anything about what players other teams pick only pick the best lads available to ourselves.

To be fair to Paidi his versatility tends to be his downfall a bit. He has played every position for Waterford from numbers 2 to 15 at some stage or another and I think the fact that he has never really settled in any one position did not help his cause with UCC, especially given the strength in depth they had.

ManFromCheese

robopaddy wrote: »

so your basically saying that a lad should not be considered no matter how well hes playing or how much potential he has just because he was not starting with his college team, in a competition that only last for 3 or 4 weeks anyway? We are not Tipp, KK, Galway or Cork we cannot do anything about what players other teams pick only pick the best lads available to ourselves.

To be fair to Paidi his versatility tends to be his downfall a bit. He has played every position for Waterford from numbers 2 to 15 at some stage or another and I think the fact that he has never really settled in any one position did not help his cause with UCC, especially given the strength in depth they had.

im not questioning the lads ability or potential so dont jump down my neck about it!!
what i am saying is that a season or two playing fitzgibbon cup is whats needed before ANY fella should be considered for a county senior panel, they need that grounding, the fizgibbon last 3-4 weeks yes, but when do they start training for it? do they not play in a league before xmas and also the crystal cup? lads are picked over several months of hard graft, not just 3-4 weeks!!!...no, we are not tipp, kk, cork or galway, but to get to their level we need to think and act at their level.

deisefolife

why is everyone on about SOK. I think he's a great keeper he's still only a youngfella. and by far is much better than A.power.

okay he made a few mistakes, but i remember power leaving in very soft goals too. its still early in the year

Mountainlad

ManFromCheese wrote: »

im not questioning the lads ability or potential so dont jump down my neck about it!!
what i am saying is that a season or two playing fitzgibbon cup is whats needed before ANY fella should be considered for a county senior panel, they need that grounding, the fizgibbon last 3-4 weeks yes, but when do they start training for it? do they not play in a league before xmas and also the crystal cup? lads are picked over several months of hard graft, not just 3-4 weeks!!!...no, we are not tipp, kk, cork or galway, but to get to their level we need to think and act at their level.

Who would you like to see in instead of him?

mccarthy37

After yesterday's loss to Kilkenny we have Tipp in Walsh Park next Sunday it doesn't get any easier. Tipp struck four goals against Galway yesterday and look to be in great form have we any chance somebody give me confidence. I agree with Giveitfrog we were well in the game yesterday but the goals conceded were our downfall plus the lack of penetration by our forwards is a big worry. The way I feel now I don't think I have the stomach to face Walsh Park. Would love the lads to give us and themselves a boost and get something out of this game but Tipp look to be in a mean mood right now.

robopaddy

ManFromCheese wrote: »

im not questioning the lads ability or potential so dont jump down my neck about it!!
what i am saying is that a season or two playing fitzgibbon cup is whats needed before ANY fella should be considered for a county senior panel, they need that grounding, the fizgibbon last 3-4 weeks yes, but when do they start training for it? do they not play in a league before xmas and also the crystal cup? lads are picked over several months of hard graft, not just 3-4 weeks!!!...no, we are not tipp, kk, cork or galway, but to get to their level we need to think and act at their level.

Not every hurler goes to college you know. And if we were to disregard lads that didnt we'd never have had the likes of John Mullane and Dan Shanahan. What your saying makes no sense in my eyes, yes playing at Fitzgibbon level dosent do a lads progression any harm but we shouldnt be discounting lads because they didnt make a Fitzgibbon team. I think PP definitely justified his selection yesterday and performed a lot better that other lads on the pitch who would have a lot of Fitzgibbon experience.
Im sure PP put in the hard graft over 3 or 4 months and would have seen plenty gametime in the colleges league so that dispels your argument there. Im sure Tipp, KK and Galway pick players they feel are the best to represent their county regardless of whether they make their college team. Most times players will be good enough for both anyway, So I think we are thinking like them

hardybuck

ManFromCheese wrote: »

im not questioning the lads ability or potential so dont jump down my neck about it!!
what i am saying is that a season or two playing fitzgibbon cup is whats needed before ANY fella should be considered for a county senior panel, they need that grounding, the fizgibbon last 3-4 weeks yes, but when do they start training for it? do they not play in a league before xmas and also the crystal cup? lads are picked over several months of hard graft, not just 3-4 weeks!!!...no, we are not tipp, kk, cork or galway, but to get to their level we need to think and act at their level.

Yeah you'd have league games before Christmas, Crystal Cup or whatever version in each province, and then the main games come after Christmas.

While I agree that it's a great grounding for guys, it's not the be all and end all. Some lads will be graduating from college at 20/21 and won't have developed to anywhere near their potential at that stage. Others won't go to college at all.

Often the county senior panel will have young guys who are developing quietly in the background, learning the right things, before pushing onto the team. I'd prefer to have this sort of player in the squad rather than an older average club player who hasn't really got the ability to step up.

Also, don't forget that freshers can't play Fitz. UCC had guys like Lehane from Cork and Hannon from Limerick who they couldn't select this year. Both will play important roles for their counties this year.

lovelypoint

mccarthy37 wrote: »

After yesterday's loss to Kilkenny we have Tipp in Walsh Park next Sunday it doesn't get any easier. Tipp struck four goals against Galway yesterday and look to be in great form have we any chance somebody give me confidence. I agree with Giveitfrog we were well in the game yesterday but the goals conceded were our downfall plus the lack of penetration by our forwards is a big worry. The way I feel now I don't think I have the stomach to face Walsh Park. Would love the lads to give us and themselves a boost and get something out of this game but Tipp look to be in a mean mood right now.

Sounds like its ripe for an ambush to me..

robopaddy

mccarthy37 wrote: »

After yesterday's loss to Kilkenny we have Tipp in Walsh Park next Sunday it doesn't get any easier. Tipp struck four goals against Galway yesterday and look to be in great form have we any chance somebody give me confidence. I agree with Giveitfrog we were well in the game yesterday but the goals conceded were our downfall plus the lack of penetration by our forwards is a big worry. The way I feel now I don't think I have the stomach to face Walsh Park. Would love the lads to give us and themselves a boost and get something out of this game but Tipp look to be in a mean mood right now.

to listen to you over the past couple of days youd swear it was the end of the world. we didnt do too badly now at all a couple of sloppy goals is all that won it for KK, bear in mind we are a young team up against some of the greatest players of this generation on the KK team yesterday I think we had them on the back foot for long stages.

bring on tipp in walsh park lets hope for more improvement and cut out the stupid mistakes

Mountainlad

robopaddy wrote: »

Not every hurler goes to college you know. And if we were to disregard lads that didnt we'd never have had the likes of John Mullane and Dan Shanahan. What your saying makes no sense in my eyes, yes playing at Fitzgibbon level dosent do a lads progression any harm but we shouldnt be discounting lads because they didnt make a Fitzgibbon team. I think PP definitely justified his selection yesterday and performed a lot better that other lads on the pitch who would have a lot of Fitzgibbon experience.
Im sure PP put in the hard graft over 3 or 4 months and would have seen plenty gametime in the colleges league so that dispels your argument there. Im sure Tipp, KK and Galway pick players they feel are the best to represent their county regardless of whether they make their college team. Most times players will be good enough for both anyway, So I think we are thinking like them

I remember seeing in fact that Paudie Prender started center back in one of the Fitzgibbon group games when Fives was only half fit.