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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012
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to listen to you over the past couple of days youd swear it was the end of the world. we didnt do too badly now at all a couple of sloppy goals is all that won it for KK, bear in mind we are a young team up against some of the greatest players of this generation on the KK team yesterday I think we had them on the back foot for long stages.
bring on tipp in walsh park lets hope for more improvement and cut out the stupid mistakes
Not the end of the world, but KK have a lot of top players out. TJ Reid, Michael Rice and Michael Fennelly in particular. Shefflin will be back before the year is out probably.
Would we be satisfied with a 10 point loss if some of the above players were available?0 -
alllcounty wrote: »Good performance from waterford, especially the backs and special mention to Paudi Prendergast who didn't look out of place in midfield.
However the biggest talking point from a waterford perspective is the constant short puckouts by Stephen O'Keefe to the full back line, constantly putting our backs under pressure. I lost count how many times the ball was intercepted deep on our own back line as a result. The two goals we conceded came from it and at least 5 points came from doing it. He persisted with it constantly throughout the game and I cant make sense of it.
I thought when Davy was gone it would be the end of these short puckouts and putting our defence under pressure. The manager needs to have faith in our half forward line to win the ball in the air. The constant short puckouts was a complete disaster and if it wasn't for that we could have won the game. Can anyone explain why this short puck out is being persisted with?
I think the short puckouts are a noteworthy point. We're either sufficiently untrained in them, or else our backs are either not fast, strong or brave enough to pursue such an element to our game.
From a keepers perspective, a short puck should only be an option when the man it is being pucked to can receive the ball cleanly, whether thats a man in space, or a free man in defence. Any man receiving that ball then should be either able to deliver a good long pass into our forwards, or else be strong enough to work or drive the ball forward. Any other sort of short pucking strategy is lunacy in my opinion, lunacy that seems to have endured for quite a while now, irrespective of management.
I haven't seen Sundays game on tv yet (only listened to it on the radio), but another feature I would like to see cut out of our play in general, is the amount of short passing among our backs sometimes. Many of our backs seem to think it acceptable to play themselves out of trouble, by playing a colleague into trouble.
I could go on, but our defense seems a target rich environment, and ripe for tightening up..
EDIT: By the way, a lot of the criticism of O'Keefe seems harsh to me. Hopefully the lad will learn from such experiences and errors, and calls for his head at this juncture seem quite premature and ridiculous to me.0 -
Not the end of the world, but KK have a lot of top players out. TJ Reid, Michael Rice and Michael Fennelly in particular. Shefflin will be back before the year is out probably.
Would we be satisfied with a 10 point loss if some of the above players were available?
I heard that Shefflin got an infection in his knee after the surgery he had, so it's not going to be an easy road back for him at all. And I dunno but given Michael Rice has had to have an entire hand reconstructed and probably not held a hurley since August he also will find it difficult to reach his best form.
With tendonitis in both knees, its unlikely that we'll see Walter Walsh for a long time either. Paul Murphy did his hamstring yesterday so that's another blow for them, and Tyrell came off and is apparently struggling with his groein. I dunno what the story with TJ Reid is, or why Richie Power wasn't involved yesterday. Michael Fennelly is fine, he's just on a break until he gets back to full fitness.
But yeah they've a lot of injuries and I'd be surprised if they've a full team to select from at any stage over the course of the year.0 -
How do people think Shane Walsh played yesterday?0
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HillFarmer wrote: »How do people think Shane Walsh played yesterday?
Poorly bar one point he got at the end of the first half. I'm sure he'll come good, I had heard that he would be out for longer than just one game so he's probably not up to full fitness yet.0 -
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Mountainlad wrote: »Poorly bar one point he got at the end of the first half. I'm sure he'll come good, I had heard that he would be out for longer than just one game so he's probably not up to full fitness yet.
ya I agree, hopefully match fitness was the main reason. We realy need him to have a good game next Sunday to have any chance.0 -
Ridiculous for some people to be questioning the goalkeeper in my opinion, his 2nd year at senior inter county level and after 3 league games in poor conditions for hurling, people are looking for adrian power back. how can the younger players develop if they're going to be dropped after making a few mistakes? the same for mahony who's only back from injury since the middle of february. Also jamie nagle has had a great start to the season but has recieved criticism after every game this year for some reason.
The best waterford squad I've seen in a few years, the competition for places is great and can only get better with the younger players coming through, people should be encouraged by what they've seen so far this year rather than look for people to blame after losing to kilkenny at their home venue0 -
deisefolife wrote: »why is everyone on about SOK. I think he's a great keeper he's still only a youngfella. and by far is much better than A.power.
okay he made a few mistakes, but i remember power leaving in very soft goals too. its still early in the year
Your wrong there. When Adrian Power and Stephen O Keeffe were both at WIT, AP was always the number 1 goalie and SOK was number 2. Personally I think AP is the best goalie waterford has produced in the last 10 years and if we had him now we wouldn't be seen these blunders. Have to stick with him now as we dont have anyone else up to this standard at the moment.0 -
Deise_2012 wrote: »Ridiculous for some people to be questioning the goalkeeper in my opinion, his 2nd year at senior inter county level and after 3 league games in poor conditions for hurling, people are looking for adrian power back. how can the younger players develop if they're going to be dropped after making a few mistakes? the same for mahony who's only back from injury since the middle of february. Also jamie nagle has had a great start to the season but has recieved criticism after every game this year for some reason.
The best waterford squad I've seen in a few years, the competition for places is great and can only get better with the younger players coming through, people should be encouraged by what they've seen so far this year rather than look for people to blame after losing to kilkenny at their home venue
It's not his second year. He was in goal again 2 years ago in nolan park when he made another mistake failing to collect a high ball that came to him and ended up in the back of the net. AP is also still young and was on the U21 team in 09 and for a goalie he has plenty of time yet to become our number one goalkeeper. We need him back on the panel asap.0 -
Giveitfong wrote: »Under 21 challenge: Kilkenny 4-28 Waterford 3-17
Waterford got off to a great start in this challenge which followed the senior game in Nowlan Park today, with full forward Cormac Heffernan twice finishing decisively to the net in the first two minutes following excellent approach play by the Waterford forwards.
Waterford dominated the first 20 minutes of the game with De La Salle’s Shane McNulty giving a master class at centre back, ably abetted by his wing backs Ray Barry (who came on as a late sub in the senior game) and Shane (I think) Roche of Shamrocks. In midfield, Waterford were also well on top with Dunhill’s Eamon Murphy and Mount Sion’s Stephen Roche playing a lot of ball. However, over-elaboration among the forwards meant that a lot of good possession was wasted.
Kilkenny eventually got to grips with the game and, with wind assistance, sent over a flurry of points while they also got through for a couple of goals and also produced a couple of great saves by Seanie Barry in the Waterford goal. Eamon Murphy shipped an injury when bravely trying to set up a goal chance for Waterford and was still hanging around the Kilkenny goal area when he got at the end of another good Waterford attacking movement to bag his team’s third goal. However, he then went off which considerably weakened the Waterford team.
At half time Kilkenny led by something like 2-13 to 3-4. With the wind at their backs in the second half, we expected Waterford to get back into contention, but Kilkenny greatly upped their game and their ability to win ball in the air in the middle third led to a procession of points and two further goals.
With both teams making lots of substitutions the game became very loose and disorganised. Waterford kept battling away with Gavin O’Brien in particular impressing with a series of fine points. He really should be given a run at midfield or in the half forwards for the seniors. Overall, Waterford’s best player was Ray Barry who gave a strong performance right through at right half back.
An interesting feature of the team was the placing of Kilrossanty’s Kieran Power, a member of last year’s Dungarvan Colleges Harty Cup winning team, at full back where he performed very creditably indeed.
Speaking of which, I believe that Dungarvan Colleges’s Hogan Cup semi-final against St Kieran’s of Kilkenny will be played next Saturday in Thurles as part of a double bill, with Kilkenny CBS playing against Mercy Colleges of Galway in the other semi-final. Earlier today Waterford beat Kilkenny in a minor challenge, but it is noteworthy that while the Dungarvan Colleges contingent played for Waterford, no players from St Kieran’s or Kilkenny CBS played for the Cats. I believe that all the Dungarvan players got through the game without injury.
I don’t know how many first team players were missing from the Kilkenny Under 21 team today, but Waterford were missing Darragh Fives, JakeDillon, Pauric Mahony, Jamie Barron, Paudie Prendergast and Eoin Madigan. I don’t know if Barry Coughlan and Killian Fitzgerald (both senior subs today) are under 21.
Other players who figured at some stage on the Waterford team were Donie Breathnach (An Rinn), Shane (I think) Ryan (Fourmilewater), Barry O’Sullivan (Ballygunner), Kieran Bennett (Ballysaggart), Colin Walsh (Ballinameela) and Jim Power (Butlerstown). There were a couple of others whose names I can’t remember.
I saw some place on Twitter earlier on that its on at the WIT Campus at 2pm and heard on WLR at 4 that the game is also on in WIT. I would have thought that Dungarvan would have had to go to South Kilkenny to play the game as Kilkenny CBS came to Walsh Park last year, but guess with the Motor way down, WIT or Walsh Park which is out of the question because of Sunday's Double Header is a half way venue.0 -
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deisefolife wrote: »why is everyone on about SOK. I think he's a great keeper he's still only a youngfella. and by far is much better than A.power.
okay he made a few mistakes, but i remember power leaving in very soft goals too. its still early in the year
There is not much between the two of them to be fair, both are always likely to make a mistake or two in a game. Seanie Barry is just as good as the two of them as well and Eoin Kearns is also a very good keeper who maybe does not get the same coverage as the other three as he is not playing with a senior club.0 -
Not every hurler goes to college you know. And if we were to disregard lads that didnt we'd never have had the likes of John Mullane and Dan Shanahan. What your saying makes no sense in my eyes, yes playing at Fitzgibbon level dosent do a lads progression any harm but we shouldnt be discounting lads because they didnt make a Fitzgibbon team. I think PP definitely justified his selection yesterday and performed a lot better that other lads on the pitch who would have a lot of Fitzgibbon experience.
Im sure PP put in the hard graft over 3 or 4 months and would have seen plenty gametime in the colleges league so that dispels your argument there. Im sure Tipp, KK and Galway pick players they feel are the best to represent their county regardless of whether they make their college team. Most times players will be good enough for both anyway, So I think we are thinking like them
The same should apply to a lad that might not have got to play Dr Harty Cup. There is three schools (for males) in the Dungarvan area. Just because a fellow chose to go to Scoil Cathal Naofa should not mean that when it comes to getting picked for different county teams he should be forgotten about.0 -
Well I meant SOK's 2nd year as starting keeper, Clinton was still around 2 years ago so he was always going to be #1. I can't see why people are getting upset over the keeper when he played well in last years championship bar 1 mistake against tipp. Of course they are going to keep trying the short puck outs when Seamus is the only threat as a ball winner in the half forward line, maybe that'l change when maurice is fully fit. depends where michael ryan plays o halloran and mahony come championship time too!alllcounty wrote: »It's not his second year. He was in goal again 2 years ago in nolan park when he made another mistake failing to collect a high ball that came to him and ended up in the back of the net. AP is also still young and was on the U21 team in 09 and for a goalie he has plenty of time yet to become our number one goalkeeper. We need him back on the panel asap.0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »I heard that Shefflin got an infection in his knee after the surgery he had, so it's not going to be an easy road back for him at all. And I dunno but given Michael Rice has had to have an entire hand reconstructed and probably not held a hurley since August he also will find it difficult to reach his best form.
With tendonitis in both knees, its unlikely that we'll see Walter Walsh for a long time either. Paul Murphy did his hamstring yesterday so that's another blow for them, and Tyrell came off and is apparently struggling with his groein. I dunno what the story with TJ Reid is, or why Richie Power wasn't involved yesterday. Michael Fennelly is fine, he's just on a break until he gets back to full fitness.
But yeah they've a lot of injuries and I'd be surprised if they've a full team to select from at any stage over the course of the year.
TJ Reid is still out due to the cruciate injury he sustained last year.
Shefflin is currently suffering from pneumonia afaik
Jackie Tyrell will be out for appox 2 weeks and Paul Murphy out for up to 5 weeks according to today's Independent0 -
TJ Reid is still out due to the cruciate injury he sustained last year.
Shefflin is currently suffering from pneumonia afaik
Jackie Tyrell will be out for appox 2 weeks and Paul Murphy out for up to 5 weeks according to today's Independent
Jees TJ Reid will likely be out for quite some time then. I heard that about Shefflin too, as well as everything else. I reckon Clare could take them this week, unfortunately for us. Though I guess if Galway beat Cork we would be guaranteed to stay up if we beat Galway in the last game. Could be a Kilkenny v Cork relegation final yet!0 -
Well Adrian Power is the one who decided to leave the panel, (I think he may have emigrated too?) but even if he was put back in as starting goalie, how many mistakes would he be allowed make before you think he should be booted off the team like O'Keeffe? Even the great players in any sport make mistakes, and O'Keeffe is still very young, have a bit of faith in the lad.alllcounty wrote: »Your wrong there. When Adrian Power and Stephen O Keeffe were both at WIT, AP was always the number 1 goalie and SOK was number 2. Personally I think AP is the best goalie waterford has produced in the last 10 years and if we had him now we wouldn't be seen these blunders. Have to stick with him now as we dont have anyone else up to this standard at the moment.0 -
anyone that has monitored okeeffes progress from underage level will tell you that hes always been prone to some daft decision making and unfortunately the bad habits seemed to have followed him right through to adult level. not a good sign. i see people saying he shouldnt be dropped as it would knock his confidence but i wouldnt be as sure. i think the lad needs a real kick in the backside at this stage. hes either up to it or hes not and we cant sit around watching him making these gaffes while we wait gor him to reach his potential.
Ah, come off it for Christ sakes! That's his first bad game in the senior shirt. He was superb last year. Sh1t happens, he had a bad day! I'd rather see him make those mistakes in the league than in May/June. It's how he responds to this that will show his character. All goalkeepers are prone to errors, hardest position to play on the pitch.0 -
people on this forum have nothing better to do. socky made a few mistakes big deal. the game is over. move on.
god help the next player to make a mistake. cos it will end it being his fault if we lose. and i cant imagine what people will start saying about him.
eoin mc grath and eoin kelly last year. already this year S.O.K is under scrutiny and we have only played 3 games. not the best conditions to be playing tbh. and i think he's doing okay. he's young and will come on heaps and bounds before the year is out. ( i hope he's not reading any of the bull on this site )
power is a good keeper. but i think s.o.k is much better. how many balls lobbed in over powers head easy balls he should of caught or saved.0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »Jees TJ Reid will likely be out for quite some time then. I heard that about Shefflin too, as well as everything else. I reckon Clare could take them this week, unfortunately for us. Though I guess if Galway beat Cork we would be guaranteed to stay up if we beat Galway in the last game. Could be a Kilkenny v Cork relegation final yet!
With the mounting injuries, Clare have a decent shot next Sunday in Ennis
if they can put in a consistent hour. Last Sat night they mixed the poor with the very good. That said, they'll be up against a more physical side next weekend.
A win for Clare means they're fully safe from relegation and in with a great shout of making the semi-finals whilst a KK loss means they're on a tight-rope for the relegation play-off. Should make it spicy.
I'd say scoring differences could have a big say in who ends up where0 -
With the mounting injuries, Clare have a decent shot next Sunday in Ennis
if they can put in a consistent hour. Last Sat night they mixed the poor with the very good. That said, they'll be up against a more physical side next weekend.
A win for Clare means they're fully safe from relegation and in with a great shout of making the semi-finals whilst a KK loss means they're on a tight-rope for the relegation play-off. Should make it spicy.
I'd say scoring differences could have a big say in who ends up where
If Clare win they'll be in the semis.
It is really an intriguing league this year.0 -
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Psychedelic wrote: »Well Adrian Power is the one who decided to leave the panel, (I think he may have emigrated too?) but even if he was put back in as starting goalie, how many mistakes would he be allowed make before you think he should be booted off the team like O'Keeffe? Even the great players in any sport make mistakes, and O'Keeffe is still very young, have a bit of faith in the lad.
AP was there before SOK came along and it should have being AP to become the first choice. SOK was mistaking put ahead of AP in the pecking order and the problems we are now seeing for the 3rd league game in a row is a result of the wrong person being chosen to fill the number 1 position. AP had no choice but to leave after that insult. I do hope SOK becomes better and stops making these stupid mistakes as I dont see him been replaced any time soon. So for the good of the county I hope he settles and does the simple things right.0 -
alllcounty wrote: »AP was there before SOK came along and it should have being AP to become the first choice. SOK was mistaking put ahead of AP in the pecking order and the problems we are now seeing for the 3rd league game in a row is a result of the wrong person being chosen to fill the number 1 position. AP had no choice but to leave after that insult. I do hope SOK becomes better and stops making these stupid mistakes as I dont see him been replaced any time soon. So for the good of the county I hope he settles and does the simple things right.
Exceptionally harsh view of the lad who was still in my view the best keeper in Ireland last year. Made one mistake against Tipp, you could maybe argue two with one going unpunished. But his puckouts were superb. Part of the reason we have seen a dramatic improvement in Seamus Prender this year and last is SOK being able to hit brilliant puckouts to him. Name one Waterford player that is yet to make a mistake this year.
I know the short puckout wasn't oin and the first goal was a bad mistake by him, but I don't see anybody talking about Daniels who didn't cover himself in glory and quite frankly had a poor game through out. Instead, it seems some people can't accept that Adrian Power is not Waterford's number one keeper. He was given several opportunities and didn't take them, I distinctly remember him dropping a few balls into the net.
Maybe ye should go back and have a look at how good he was last year. And for anybody saying no other County has keepers that make mistakes, have a look at the goal Brendan Maher scored at the weekend, or the at Skehill's performance against Offaly last year, or even David Herity against Tipp in the all-ireland final in 2011. None of those are bad keepers, but mistakes happen and unfortunately for keepers you pay the ultimate price if they happen when you're playing in goal.0 -
He'll be closely watched from now onwards. See how gets on in the remaining two league games. However if it is a continuation of the last 3 league games then questions will have to be asked.0
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Mountainlad wrote: »Exceptionally harsh view of the lad who was still in my view the best keeper in Ireland last year. Made one mistake against Tipp, you could maybe argue two with one going unpunished. But his puckouts were superb. Part of the reason we have seen a dramatic improvement in Seamus Prender this year and last is SOK being able to hit brilliant puckouts to him. Name one Waterford player that is yet to make a mistake this year.
I know the short puckout wasn't oin and the first goal was a bad mistake by him, but I don't see anybody talking about Daniels who didn't cover himself in glory and quite frankly had a poor game through out. Instead, it seems some people can't accept that Adrian Power is not Waterford's number one keeper. He was given several opportunities and didn't take them, I distinctly remember him dropping a few balls into the net.
Maybe ye should go back and have a look at how good he was last year. And for anybody saying no other County has keepers that make mistakes, have a look at the goal Brendan Maher scored at the weekend, or the at Skehill's performance against Offaly last year, or even David Herity against Tipp in the all-ireland final in 2011. None of those are bad keepers, but mistakes happen and unfortunately for keepers you pay the ultimate price if they happen when you're playing in goal.
Agree with most of what you said but I actually thought Daniels played well. I've been very impressed by him this year tbh.0 -
What did he do wrong against Cork and Clare?alllcounty wrote: »He'll be closely watched from now onwards. See how gets on in the remaining two league games. However if it is a continuation of the last 3 league games then questions will have to be asked.0 -
Deise_2012 wrote: »What did he do wrong against Cork and Clare?
Against Clare he came out with the ball, Noel Conners made himself available for the handpass to his left instead he hadpassed the ball into the hand of a Clare player. He hit the ball towards goal, i think Daniels was standing in goal making a last ditch effort only for the ball to go just outside the post. We should have being punished.
Against Cork Brick Walsh game him a perfect handpass when he was under pressure, all he had to do was gather it and clear it. Instead he pulled on it first time, it hit off a waterford player and out for a 65. He also gave a short puckout that went to one of their players and over the bar.
Against Kilkenny short puckouts non stop putting the backs under constant pressure and hit a fair few into the hand of kilkenny players.
Against Tipperary I'll let you know next week.0 -
Also, don't forget that freshers can't play Fitz. UCC had guys like Lehane from Cork and Hannon from Limerick who they couldn't select this year. Both will play important roles for their counties this year.
Lehane was man of the match for UCC this year in the fitz final and Hannon played for Mary I?!0 -
Exceptionally harsh views being offered here on SOK and Paudi Mahony in particular. I'd have no worries about SOK, he's a very confident lad and will learn from his errors. He was outstanding last year and his puckouts were exceptional. I think it's extremely disrespectful to be talking about bringing back Power. He made a decision to leave the panel and nobody forced him.
Paudi Mahony is only just back from injury, people need to get off his back. He's shown his quality before and he should be ready come Championship time. And with all due respect to this young panel, we just don't have the squad depth at this juncture to be leaving players of Paudi's quality out.
There are also a couple of other players such as Nagle and Maurice who routinely get criticised here no matter how they play. Jamie has had a good start to the year and Maurice is also just back from injury. Yet for some reason they are always the fall guys.
A reality check is needed here, we lost to the AI champions on their own patch. We have two home games now, it's in our own hands and people need to be getting behind the team rather than discussing players who by their own choice are not on the panel.0 -
Exceptionally harsh views being offered here on SOK and Paudi Mahony in particular. I'd have no worries about SOK, he's a very confident lad and will learn from his errors. He was outstanding last year and his puckouts were exceptional. I think it's extremely disrespectful to be talking about bringing back Power. He made a decision to leave the panel and nobody forced him.
Paudi Mahony is only just back from injury, people need to get off his back. He's shown his quality before and he should be ready come Championship time. And with all due respect to this young panel, we just don't have the squad depth at this juncture to be leaving players of Paudi's quality out.
There are also a couple of other players such as Nagle and Maurice who routinely get criticised here no matter how they play. Jamie has had a good start to the year and Maurice is also just back from injury. Yet for some reason they are always the fall guys.
A reality check is needed here, we lost to the AI champions on their own patch. We have two home games now, it's in our own hands and people need to be getting behind the team rather than discussing players who by their own choice are not on the panel.0 -
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HillFarmer wrote: »Agree with most of what you said but I actually thought Daniels played well. I've been very impressed by him this year tbh.
agree that daniels has been going very well this year, but thought he had a tough time of it against young aylward yesterday. a real handful that lad and i can see a few other corner backs getting a tough afternoon off him before the year is out. but overall daniels progress has been very encouraging this season0
This discussion has been closed.
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