Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

ManFromCheese

robopaddy wrote: »

Not every hurler goes to college you know. And if we were to disregard lads that didnt we'd never have had the likes of John Mullane and Dan Shanahan. What your saying makes no sense in my eyes, yes playing at Fitzgibbon level dosent do a lads progression any harm but we shouldnt be discounting lads because they didnt make a Fitzgibbon team. I think PP definitely justified his selection yesterday and performed a lot better that other lads on the pitch who would have a lot of Fitzgibbon experience.
Im sure PP put in the hard graft over 3 or 4 months and would have seen plenty gametime in the colleges league so that dispels your argument there. Im sure Tipp, KK and Galway pick players they feel are the best to represent their county regardless of whether they make their college team. Most times players will be good enough for both anyway, So I think we are thinking like them

i know not every hurler goes to college, but my point is, if a fella cant make his college 15, how can he be making his county 15, by your rationale, UCC are better than the waterford senior team?! im sure paudie will have a big future, but hes far from the level needed at the moment for intercounty hurling, unless our standards have severly dropped! if paudie did see game time over the winter and was good enough he would have made the UCC team, so that doesnt "dispel" my arguement, you obviously dont understand the point im trying to make here.

ManFromCheese

doz wrote: »

Exceptionally harsh views being offered here on SOK and Paudi Mahony in particular. I'd have no worries about SOK, he's a very confident lad and will learn from his errors. He was outstanding last year and his puckouts were exceptional. I think it's extremely disrespectful to be talking about bringing back Power. He made a decision to leave the panel and nobody forced him.

Paudi Mahony is only just back from injury, people need to get off his back. He's shown his quality before and he should be ready come Championship time. And with all due respect to this young panel, we just don't have the squad depth at this juncture to be leaving players of Paudi's quality out.

There are also a couple of other players such as Nagle and Maurice who routinely get criticised here no matter how they play. Jamie has had a good start to the year and Maurice is also just back from injury. Yet for some reason they are always the fall guys.

A reality check is needed here, we lost to the AI champions on their own patch. We have two home games now, it's in our own hands and people need to be getting behind the team rather than discussing players who by their own choice are not on the panel.

maurice needs to start stepping it up, hes the best club hurler in waterford with 5 years, but he needs to kick on this year with the county

Local_Chap

alllcounty wrote: »

AP was there before SOK came along and it should have being AP to become the first choice. SOK was mistaking put ahead of AP in the pecking order and the problems we are now seeing for the 3rd league game in a row is a result of the wrong person being chosen to fill the number 1 position. AP had no choice but to leave after that insult. I do hope SOK becomes better and stops making these stupid mistakes as I dont see him been replaced any time soon. So for the good of the county I hope he settles and does the simple things right.

You must not know too much hurling and team sports in general if you think just because Adrian power was on the panel longer that he should of became first choice. SOK is the right man for the job and will be there for the next 10 years

Mountainlad

ManFromCheese wrote: »

i know not every hurler goes to college, but my point is, if a fella cant make his college 15, how can he be making his county 15, by your rationale, UCC are better than the waterford senior team?! im sure paudie will have a big future, but hes far from the level needed at the moment for intercounty hurling, unless our standards have severly dropped! if paudie did see game time over the winter and was good enough he would have made the UCC team, so that doesnt "dispel" my arguement, you obviously dont understand the point im trying to make here.

All well in good, but for the fact that Paudie Prender isn't a regular starter and was replacing Darragh Fives, and I don't see the alternative to playing Paudie Prender other than Twomey who showed very little against Clare. He was entitled to his chance and he played reasonably well, quite well for his age and given hes not started in midfield for Waterford at this level before.

Did you actually have a problem with his performance on Sunday?

alllcounty

Local_Chap wrote: »

You must not know too much hurling and team sports in general if you think just because Adrian power was on the panel longer that he should of became first choice. SOK is the right man for the job and will be there for the next 10 years

Not just that his shot stopping is excellent and his puckouts are far longer than SOK allthough he can pull off saves also. I think SOK panics more when he has the ball in his hand.

ManFromCheese

Mountainlad wrote: »

All well in good, but for the fact that Paudie Prender isn't a regular starter and was replacing Darragh Fives, and I don't see the alternative to playing Paudie Prender other than Twomey who showed very little against Clare. He was entitled to his chance and he played reasonably well, quite well for his age and given hes not started in midfield for Waterford at this level before.

Did you actually have a problem with his performance on Sunday?

No, i thought the chap done well and i dont have a problem with him at all, he has a big future, it was a broad statement i was making about the fitzgibbon cup and intercounty hurling, for example, on that UCC team this year was a full back called Glynn from Dicksboro in KK who had an outstanding fitzgibbon cup, yet he isnt getting a sniff at the county panel, now in my opinion JJ Delaneys natural position isnt full back and with Noel Hickey gone, you'd think a young lad like Glynn would be worth his place even on the panel...i cant think of any other of the top tier counties who have lads playing who arent making their college side. theres a corrolation there between fitzgibbon cup hurling and intercounty hurling, ask any player who's been through both and they'll tell you the same.

randd1

Hidalgo wrote: »

TJ Reid is still out due to the cruciate injury he sustained last year.
Shefflin is currently suffering from pneumonia afaik
Jackie Tyrell will be out for appox 2 weeks and Paul Murphy out for up to 5 weeks according to today's Independent

-Reid doesn't have a cruciate injury, his kneecap was shattered by Tannion last year in the AI. He's walking around very comfortably now, should be back for the championship.
-Shefflin also walking around quite well, but the ankle is taking longer to heal than normal, heard there was an infection in the healing process.
-Tyrrell out for three weeks.
-Murphy out for six weeks.
-Rice's hand is healing very well, should be back for the championship, he had tendonitis which he's recovering well from.
-Walter Walsh has recovered from tendonitis, should be back next week.
-Michael Fennelly is OK apparently, just building up the fitness now.
-Doyle and Buckley should be back for the championship, their hip injuries are healing.
-Power and Conor Fogarty should be back for next week, heard both just had the flu before the match.

We'll probably struggle in the remainder of the league, but should be in much better shape come championship.

deisedude

Mountainlad wrote: »

All well in good, but for the fact that Paudie Prender isn't a regular starter and was replacing Darragh Fives, and I don't see the alternative to playing Paudie Prender other than Twomey who showed very little against Clare. He was entitled to his chance and he played reasonably well, quite well for his age and given hes not started in midfield for Waterford at this level before.

Did you actually have a problem with his performance on Sunday?

People also need to realise we have lost Stevie Molumphy, Philip Mahony, David O' Sullivan and Richie Foley from the panel this year through injuries and other commitments. All of which have played intercounty midfield in the past few seasons and done reasonably well. It's not like we have a million choices at midfield. Slating the lad because he didn't play for UCC is stupid. Eddie Brennan never played minor for Kilkenny and he turned out ok!

randd1

Giveitfong wrote: »

For all Kilkenny’s domination of the last quarter of this game, were it not for Stephen O’Keefe gifting them two goals Waterford could well have won.

On the flip side, Aylward and Colin Fennelly missed two open goals they'd normally bury in their sleep, and Brick gave the hook of the year to prevent Colin Fennelly in the first half. Swings and roundabouts.

Giveitfong wrote: »

I can understand why Waterford made a lot of use of the short puckout in the second half when they were playing against the strong wind and were unable to win any possession in the half forward line. However, short puckouts made no sense in the first half when Waterford had the wind at their back.

Spot on, especially with the length O'Keeffe was getting in his clearances.

Giveitfong wrote: »

On the positive side, once again I thought the defence played very well as a unit. While Brick was our man of the match, I thought Shane Fives was terrific and once again Liam Lawlor played very well at full back. While Jamie Nagle was unable to compete with Eoin Larkin in the air in the first half, overall he played very well.

If Waterford had your current defenders 6/7 years ago, ye could have won an AI. They're handy, if lacking pace.

Giveitfong wrote: »

At the moment, we are a bit lightweight up front, especially with Pauric Mahony making very little contribution from general play (apart from his tendency to miss handy frees at crucial stages).

Could do with a few more forwards alright, especially with a bit of pace.

Mountainlad

ManFromCheese wrote: »

No, i thought the chap done well and i dont have a problem with him at all, he has a big future, it was a broad statement i was making about the fitzgibbon cup and intercounty hurling, for example, on that UCC team this year was a full back called Glynn from Dicksboro in KK who had an outstanding fitzgibbon cup, yet he isnt getting a sniff at the county panel, now in my opinion JJ Delaneys natural position isnt full back and with Noel Hickey gone, you'd think a young lad like Glynn would be worth his place even on the panel...i cant think of any other of the top tier counties who have lads playing who arent making their college side. theres a corrolation there between fitzgibbon cup hurling and intercounty hurling, ask any player who's been through both and they'll tell you the same.

Are you waiting to bring up Wayne Hutchison's name and question why he's not on the panel or what's the story? Because I don't see the issue otherwise.

There were no other Fitzgibbon cup players on the bench that I am aware of, so maybe it's more a matter of who we have then anything else? Though it is worth noting that Paudie Prender did start centre back for UCC in one game this year. Also, he's only in second year so most lads on the team have probably a few extra years college hurling under their belts.

ManFromCheese

deisedude wrote: »

People also need to realise we have lost Stevie Molumphy, Philip Mahony, David O' Sullivan and Richie Foley from the panel this year through injuries and other commitments. All of which have played intercounty midfield in the past few seasons and done reasonably well. It's not like we have a million choices at midfield. Slating the lad because he didn't play for UCC is stupid. Eddie Brennan never played minor for Kilkenny and he turned out ok!

where exactly did i slate the lad you thick fcuker? your now drawing comparissons with a chap who didnt play intercounty minor and a chap who didnt play fitzgibbon cup....if you knew anything, eddie brennan had plenty of ability to play minor hurling for kilkenny, he had won colleges all irelands with kierans and the lot, he just hadnt the interest in it till he got to about 21, he was often quoted in saying so, it wasnt a case that he wasnt good enough for it....i really wonder how many of ye on here actually played any bit of hurling or even think before engaging in the keyboards

ManFromCheese

Mountainlad wrote: »

Are you waiting to bring up Wayne Hutchison's name and question why he's not on the panel or what's the story? Because I don't see the issue otherwise.

There were no other Fitzgibbon cup players on the bench that I am aware of, so maybe it's more a matter of who we have then anything else? Though it is worth noting that Paudie Prender did start centre back for UCC in one game this year. Also, he's only in second year so most lads on the team have probably a few extra years college hurling under their belts.

well what run was paul o brien given, he has been a midfielder for his club then he was fired in corner forward last year and then fired off the panel, young roche from mt sion played midfield for WIT this year and held his own, now personally i dont think hes up to it just yet, but if they are looking at paudie prendergast then why havnt they been looking at roche? i always thought shane walsh from ballygunner was a solid performer, big strong lad with plenty of hurling, played midfield on u21 team a few years ago that got to munster final, why isnt gavin o brien given a run midfield, he seems too confined in the corner and maybe wing forward or midfield is his more natural position, theres loads of options there....

deisedude

ManFromCheese wrote: »

where exactly did i slate the lad you thick fcuker? your now drawing comparissons with a chap who didnt play intercounty minor and a chap who didnt play fitzgibbon cup....if you knew anything, eddie brennan had plenty of ability to play minor hurling for kilkenny, he had won colleges all irelands with kierans and the lot, he just hadnt the interest in it till he got to about 21, he was often quoted in saying so, it wasnt a case that he wasnt good enough for it....i really wonder how many of ye on here actually played any bit of hurling or even think before engaging in the keyboards

I moderated the GAA forum for a year so i think i know enough about hurling. And while we are at it I wasn't replying to you so don't know why you are so paranoid

robopaddy

ManFromCheese wrote: »

No, i thought the chap done well and i dont have a problem with him at all, he has a big future, it was a broad statement i was making about the fitzgibbon cup and intercounty hurling, for example, on that UCC team this year was a full back called Glynn from Dicksboro in KK who had an outstanding fitzgibbon cup, yet he isnt getting a sniff at the county panel, now in my opinion JJ Delaneys natural position isnt full back and with Noel Hickey gone, you'd think a young lad like Glynn would be worth his place even on the panel...i cant think of any other of the top tier counties who have lads playing who arent making their college side. theres a corrolation there between fitzgibbon cup hurling and intercounty hurling, ask any player who's been through both and they'll tell you the same.

there is one player on our panel that didnt make his college team and u are making an absolute mountain out of a molehill over it. personally i dont care whether r not he made the ucc team as long as he does the business for us. anyone thst saw his performance on monday will tell u that hes well up to fitz standard. why he didnt make the team i dont know but as i say i dont care either. if we had a panel full of lads who werent making fitzgibbon teams i mite share ur argument but its just this one and he is proving to be well worth a try. im not going to waste another second on this ridiculous argument.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

ManFromCheese wrote: »

i know not every hurler goes to college, but my point is, if a fella cant make his college 15, how can he be making his county 15, by your rationale, UCC are better than the waterford senior team?! im sure paudie will have a big future, but hes far from the level needed at the moment for intercounty hurling, unless our standards have severly dropped! if paudie did see game time over the winter and was good enough he would have made the UCC team, so that doesnt "dispel" my arguement, you obviously dont understand the point im trying to make here.

It really boils down to the options the two panels have in the particular player's position surely?

deisefolife

doz wrote: »

Exceptionally harsh views being offered here on SOK and Paudi Mahony in particular. I'd have no worries about SOK, he's a very confident lad and will learn from his errors. He was outstanding last year and his puckouts were exceptional. I think it's extremely disrespectful to be talking about bringing back Power. He made a decision to leave the panel and nobody forced him.

Paudi Mahony is only just back from injury, people need to get off his back. He's shown his quality before and he should be ready come Championship time. And with all due respect to this young panel, we just don't have the squad depth at this juncture to be leaving players of Paudi's quality out.

There are also a couple of other players such as Nagle and Maurice who routinely get criticised here no matter how they play. Jamie has had a good start to the year and Maurice is also just back from injury. Yet for some reason they are always the fall guys.

A reality check is needed here, we lost to the AI champions on their own patch. We have two home games now, it's in our own hands and people need to be getting behind the team rather than discussing players who by their own choice are not on the panel.

well said

Mountainlad

ManFromCheese wrote: »

well what run was paul o brien given, he has been a midfielder for his club then he was fired in corner forward last year and then fired off the panel, young roche from mt sion played midfield for WIT this year and held his own, now personally i dont think hes up to it just yet, but if they are looking at paudie prendergast then why havnt they been looking at roche? i always thought shane walsh from ballygunner was a solid performer, big strong lad with plenty of hurling, played midfield on u21 team a few years ago that got to munster final, why isnt gavin o brien given a run midfield, he seems too confined in the corner and maybe wing forward or midfield is his more natural position, theres loads of options there....

Fired in corner forward? How many games did he start in midfield during the league. Might be worthwhile having a look at how we fared in those games. Also he started midfield for his club, so? Paudie Prender was what, centre back for Lismore last year? (a much better club if we're being honest with ourselves). He also has the advantage of being 10 years younger than O'Brien. They probably have been looking at Roche but they quite correctly have identified that Prendergast is better. Was never that impressed with Shane Walsh, he was good enough I suppose but I'd still rate Paudie higher. Dunno what he's done that Prendergast hasn't. And Gavin O Brien would have been destroyed in midfield the other day. Exceptionally talented hurler, but he's a few years away yet from being able to live with the physicality of those Kilkenny lads.

There really isn't loads of options to be honest. Prendergast has been preferred to Roche in any contest between them. Paul O'Brien will never play for Waterford again, his time has come and gone but we all have fond memories of his goal against Tipp in 2004. Shane Walsh is big, but there's obviously a reason he's not on the panel. I get the feeling the whole Paudie Prendergast thing is trying to have a cut at the management, but bar Roche there is nobody else in that bunch that played Fitzgibbon around the middle of the park, whereas Paudie did actually start a game which you are ignoring and also he plays for a team that hasd won back to back Fitzgibbon cups, he'd be on the WIT team if he went there and that is a fact.

Deise_2012

ManFromCheese wrote: »

well what run was paul o brien given, he has been a midfielder for his club then he was fired in corner forward last year and then fired off the panel, young roche from mt sion played midfield for WIT this year and held his own, now personally i dont think hes up to it just yet, but if they are looking at paudie prendergast then why havnt they been looking at roche? i always thought shane walsh from ballygunner was a solid performer, big strong lad with plenty of hurling, played midfield on u21 team a few years ago that got to munster final, why isnt gavin o brien given a run midfield, he seems too confined in the corner and maybe wing forward or midfield is his more natural position, theres loads of options there....

young roche was exceptional against tipp in the u21 semi final in 2011, he had a quiet enough year in 2012, I don't know if that was down to injury or what but he has started well again this year for WIT so if he maintains his form for the start of the club championship, it's only a matter of time before he's brought onto the senior panel

cleaboy boy

Does anybody know how our injury concerns are shaping up for Sunday's game V Tipp? Daragh Fives? Kevin Moran? Maurice pushing for a start? I presume the XV that started against the Cats will not show too much change. Definitely a status quo in the backs. Maybe Daragh introduced for PP, no disrespect to Paudie who put in a decent shift against Kilkenny. Maurice would bring more scoring threat with him if able to start on Sunday. Maybe Jamie Barron's pace could be utilised too?

Mountainlad

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Does anybody know how our injury concerns are shaping up for Sunday's game V Tipp? Daragh Fives? Kevin Moran? Maurice pushing for a start? I presume the XV that started against the Cats will not show too much change. Definitely a status quo in the backs. Maybe Daragh introduced for PP, no disrespect to Paudie who put in a decent shift against Kilkenny. Maurice would bring more scoring threat with him if able to start on Sunday. Maybe Jamie Barron's pace could be utilised too?

Is there concerns over Moran? Maybe Prendergast will be wing back. I'd say Fives will be ok to start, doubt Maurice will though.

suitcasepink

Anyone know where I can find the fixtures for the senior hurling club games? Tried the Waterford website there now but it doesnt seem to have been updated..

Mountainlad

deise_girl wrote: »

Anyone know where I can find the fixtures for the senior hurling club games? Tried the Waterford website there now but it doesnt seem to have been updated..

http://people.gaa.ie/club/waterford/#

Click on Waterford competitions and then hurling, then senior, then championship, then you'll have the fixtures for both groups. It's servasport you've to go into to find them

suitcasepink

Mountainlad wrote: »

http://people.gaa.ie/club/waterford/#

Click on Waterford competitions and then hurling, then senior, then championship, then you'll have the fixtures for both groups. It's servasport you've to go into to find them

Cheers, some man for information on everything!

cleaboy boy

I thought Moran came off on Monday with a knock, it was probably precautionary more than anything. Hopefully Daragh Fives gets an injury free run now, he's been cursed with injury over the last 18 months.

Mountainlad

deise_girl wrote: »

Cheers, some man for information on everything!

Yeah I know, I'm great :pac:

IanVW

I though Eddie Barrett might get a run out in some of the matches tbh thought he hurled well midfield with de la salle and showed well!

Giveitfong

Having just watched the video of the Waterford/Kilkenny game, one thing that was particularly noticeable was the number of times scorable shots fell short and into the hand of the Kilkenny goalie in the first half – five in total. When you add in the Pauric Mahony free that hit the post and the one he missed towards the end, along with the two gifted goals, it shows that Waterford really could have got something from this game (while acknowledging that Kilkenny also missed a lot of good chances).


It was also noticeable that, apart from his two points, Jake Dillon was almost completely anonymous from start to finish, as was Brian O’Sullivan, while Pauric Mahony also had little impact, as was the case with Jamie Barron when he came on. Part of the problem here, as I saw it, was the poor quality of ball being played into the forwards, especially in the second half. There was a tendency to hit the ball straight to players who invariably had a hard-hitting Kilkenny defender up their rear ends, rather than playing the ball into open space. There was also a tendency to play the ball down the wings rather than diagonally across the field which would have given the forwards a better chance.


Brian O’Halloran had a much better game than I initially gave him credit for, although his lack of physicality told against him on several occasions. I was again very impressed with the maturity of Shane Fives’s play, given how little experience he has at this level. Also, Stephen Daniels had a much better game than at least one poster on this site gave him credit for. Jamie Nagle also had a really good game. The second half injury to Kevin Moran was a big blow to Waterford in the closing stages. And Paudie Prendergast is a really lovely hurler.


The evidence of the league so far is that we now have a very good defence, even without Noel Connors and Darragh Fives. We also have talented forwards, but we need to concentrate on giving them the kind of supply which will allow them to do maximum damage.


Apologies for indicating in an earlier post that the Hogan Cup semi-final between Dungarvan Colleges and St. Kieran’s Kilkenny would be taking place in Thurles. This is now fixed for Carriganore for 2 p.m. next Saturday and I would urge everyone to go along and support this latest crop of under-age Déise talent in their bid to get to the final of this great competition.

Black Suir

deise_girl wrote: »

Anyone know where I can find the fixtures for the senior hurling club games? Tried the Waterford website there now but it doesnt seem to have been updated..

The Waterford G.A.A. Website is a bit of a joke. I dont know who keeps it up to date, or at least who is supposed to. I assume it the secretary or PRO, my gut feeling is it is the secretary. I read some place recently he is taking a bit of a back seat when it comes to fixtures for much of this year and will be working on finanace which I thought was the job of the Treasurer. Maybe if the Secretary is supposed to be up dating it, but does not have the time, maybe someone else could be found on the board - county or divisional to do it.

I was looking at the Cork Website last night. There is some difference between the two. The Cork site has details of fixtures on it right up to sometime in June. I noticed even that they started their Senior championship I think was it last night.

The websites of the other counties in Munster (I did not look at Kerry's as I was looking at Senior Hurling Fixtures) are also poor. The one for Clare is very poor.

Black Suir

I read on Twitter on Waterford N&S reporter Tomas McCarthy's page that the football game on Sunday is taken out of Walsh Park and moved to WIT. I also see a suggestion that those that attend the football game (The gate man wont be too busy) should get free admission to the hurling. It is possibly to taxing on some of our Co Board to work how how to manage it. Its quite simple however.

kensutz

deise_girl wrote: »

Anyone know where I can find the fixtures for the senior hurling club games? Tried the Waterford website there now but it doesnt seem to have been updated..

That should be fixed pretty shortly