Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

bressi

will tipp really want to win munster final. Reward probably Kilkenny in semi final. Waterford good bet @ 9/2???.

Yeboah

Tipp wont want to lose this no matter who they will play in a semi...Babs is no longer manager :P

Black Suir

bressi wrote: »

will tipp really want to win munster final. Reward probably Kilkenny in semi final. Waterford good bet @ 9/2???.

Here we go again. Another one talking bull. What team goes out to loose a game and if they do, they should be kicked out of the championship for good, no second chance, and should also be not allowed to take part the following year either.

Limestone1

bressi wrote: »

will tipp really want to win munster final. Reward probably Kilkenny in semi final. Waterford good bet @ 9/2???.

Do we really want to win it though - rem 2004. Losing gives us a better route to all-ireland final, cork/limerick/wexford followed by Galway who've never beaten us in the championship. Granted on today's brilliant display by galway we wouldn't have a hope against them but I'd prefer to take my chances in a semi v Galway rather than KK who we generally don't believe we can beat.

Black Suir

Limestone1 wrote: »

Do we really want to win it though - rem 2004. Losing gives us a better route to all-ireland final, cork/limerick/wexford followed by Galway who've never beaten us in the championship. Granted on today's brilliant display by galway we wouldn't have a hope against them but I'd prefer to take my chances in a semi v Galway rather than KK who we generally don't believe we can beat.

We have to beat Kilkenny sometime and to do so in a semi final might be a little easier than in a final.

Yeboah

Black Suir wrote: »

We have to beat Kilkenny sometime and to do so in a semi final might be a little easier than in a final.

totally agree from a tipp perspective aswell...Munster Finals are about winning !!!

Fentdog84

Yeboah wrote: »

totally agree from a tipp perspective aswell...Munster Finals are about winning !!!

Exactly. Dont think it will make a blind bit of difference to either side next Sunday, and nor should it. I mean, to win an AI your probably going to have to beat Kilkenny anyway, whether it be in a semi final or final, its no different. Unless your ambition for the year is to get to an AI final, to be beaten by KK.

fricatus

We should be careful what we wish for. The best thing to do is get another win under our belts against Tipp and then take whoever gets into the semi final - I would certainly hope we wouldn't lose just so as to avoid KK.

The worst thing that could happen is that we have a handy route into a semi with Galway, beat them, and then spend three weeks singing "Don't Stop Believin'" while Cody and his men keep the heads down, preparing for another final - let's face it, it's routine for them.

Better to win every match we can and take what comes.

STIG83

Tipp will eager to get another crack at KK, they will be taking the MF against Waterford very seriously.

hardybuck

I don't think anyone will accuse the Waterford team or management of going out anything less than 100% gunning to win this weekend, but knowing that losing the game would provide an easier route through the All Ireland series would certainly take the sting out of the defeat.

suitcasepink

I dunno lads this isnt a lose lose situation for Waterford. People thinking about if we win that the likely outcome is to play kilkenny as a nightmare.. But like stop and pause.. Are we really that immune to Munsters that it wouldnt still be a big achievement to win one? Especially after the 7 goal fiasco last year. Id look at beating Tipp as a huge positive!
As said to be the best you have to beat tthe best but we can worry about Kilkenny another day.

abbeysideFB4L

Lads its only happened twice in the last 17 years that a team has won and all ireland without beating kilkenny.

deisebhoy17

Part of me kind of half hoping we lose against Tipp tbh, obvously be delighted to beat the feckers but knowing that we would be on the other side of the draw to Tipp and KK gives us, and every other county I might add a real chance to get into an AI final. Lets be honest thats where we all want to be at the end of the day?
Im sick of playing KK and Tipp in semi finals being so near yet so far. I can guarantee if we snuck into an AI final like we did in 08 we would not make the same mistakes

Psychedelic

Fcuk that, we need to win Munster and get straight into the semi final. Sounds like some people think Cork/Clare/Limerick in the quarter final would be a walkover into the semi. I don't think so, we only barely beat Clare and Cork almost beat Tipp so they look good too.

And you know what, I'd love to see us take on Kilkenny now that they've been beaten, it would give the Waterford team an extra bit of confidence.

Yeah, so shut up, let's go and win Munster and forget about "easier" routes and avoiding Kilkenny like we're too afraid of them.

deisefolife

Psychedelic wrote: »

Fcuk that, we need to win Munster and get straight into the semi final. Sounds like some people think Cork/Clare/Limerick in the quarter final would be a walkover into the semi. I don't think so, we only barely beat Clare and Cork almost beat Tipp so they look good too.

And you know what, I'd love to see us take on Kilkenny now that they've been beaten, it would give the Waterford team an extra bit of confidence.

Yeah, so shut up, let's go and win Munster and forget about "easier" routes and avoiding Kilkenny like we're too afraid of them.

i'll second that direct route is the only way

comeraghs

Club Deise facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Waterford-GAA-Supporters-Club-Dublin/179978495401923#!/ClubDeiseTheWaterfordGaaSupportersClub

comeraghs

Letter to Examiner via Club Deise!




Well thought out response to venue debate

Did you see the following article in The Irish Examiner..?
Seán Walsh of The Munster Council commenting on Waterford's offer to hold the match in Thurles rather than Cork.
We received a well thought out response from Club Déise member Don L...ehane -

I would like to refer to the recent comments of Munster Council Chairman Sean Walsh regarding the Waterford approach re venue for the Munster SH final. I think bringing this discussion into the public domain with such a derogatory tone is out of order from the Munster chairman and does a major disservice to the contribution Waterford have made to the Munster championship in the recent decades. In his role as chairman he would be better served trying to device a more equitable revenue model for championship matches rather than publicly commenting on internal discussions and "sweeteners". Waterford is the only Munster county without a reasonable big game venue and in retrospect maybe it is a good thing that Waterford did not go down this road as there are now too many stadiums in both Munster and the rest of the country. Every county is looking for scarce central funds to upgrade and maintain the facilities as well as the annual scramble to get a big fixture to their venue often ignoring completely the convenience of supporters. The recent Semple Stadium upgrade cost 18 million euro mostly from Munster Council, Croke Park, Lottery and advance ticket sales - Waterford have no access to this type of funding and do not even have access to revenue from matches they are competing in themselves.

Waterford are not in a position to make their own arrangements regarding home/away type arrangements like Cork/Kerry, Cork/Tipp etc but they should not be penalised for this and they should have access to some championship revenue particularly when their own teams are involved. After all it is the teams who make the spectacle and not the stadium. Waterford have added a lot of colour, excitement and revenue to the Munster championship scene over the past 15 years but are apparently frozen out of the cozy financial arrangements because they do not have their own stadium. To describe Waterford's approach as looking for "a sweetener" is a disgrace when they are merely looking for some return from the participation of their own teams - I suspect that Waterford have been the biggest hurling supporters in Munster over the past 15 years. The revenue return for hosting a big game is considerable - if we take a 40,000 crowd at 25 euro a ahead we have 1million euro with hosting county getting 15% or 150,000 euro with all major overheads like stewarding etc covered by Munster Council. Lets say 1/3 of people buy programs at 5 euro - another 66,000 euro less costs (probably nett 50K) plus the advertising revenue from the programs themselves. A percentage from catering etc - not really sure of value but probably worth 30-40K a year. Stadium advertising based on high profile TV coverage etc and of course the revenue to the local economy. I would think that the direct revenue to the hosting county for a 40,000 crowd fixture is of the order of a quarter of a million euro minimum even if we exclude stadium advertising and with major overheads covered by Munster Council. The Munster Council revenue would presumably be around 850,00 for a 40k crowd (25 X 40,000 less 15%) less running overheads - surely plenty of scope here for some contribution to participating teams.

As it stands Waterford are completely outside this potential revenue loop for the big championship matches and God knows we are not exactly flush with the readies. Every county should have a designated "home" venue for matches where they get a return on ticket sales/program revenue etc (Thurles or Nolan Park in case of Waterford ?) - they pay a reasonable fee for use of stadium or Munster Council pay this out of their percentage. On a simple level each participating county should get revenue from each match they participate in or else the total revenue from games should be split between all Munster counties. Some of this will have to come out of the 85% that the Munster Council get from ticket sales.

The Sean Walsh comments were completely out of order in both tone and content and I feel GAA supporters should add their voice to the debate so that hopefully a fairer system will be developed in future years. Waterford have been in a bunch of Munster finals in the last 15 years and have little or no revenue return from them - maybe it is time for Waterford to up stumps and make their own arrangements if Munster Council do not support them in an even handed way - surely even they see that the present system is unfair and unsustainable ! It would be difficult to play a Munster final if one team decided they were not going to turn up ! From a personal point of Nowlan Park is a handy run with Semple Stadium in second place and both surfaces are top class.The trip to the aging Cork stadium next week is not exactly filling me with anticipation and that is completely away from how I think the match is going to go.

Regards

Don Lehane
Dublin

calvin_zola

With regards to Sean Walsh, I hear that the Clare v Limerick qualifier match scheduled for the triple header on Saturday was originally pencilled in for Killarney. Funny that I thougth and call me sceptical he must have been using his influence to get Kerry their own financial sweetner. Clare bauked at the scenario anyway so it was quickly shelved.

Black Suir

comeraghs wrote: »

Letter to Examiner via Club Deise!




Well thought out response to venue debate

Did you see the following article in The Irish Examiner..?
Seán Walsh of The Munster Council commenting on Waterford's offer to hold the match in Thurles rather than Cork.
We received a well thought out response from Club Déise member Don L...ehane -

I would like to refer to the recent comments of Munster Council Chairman Sean Walsh regarding the Waterford approach re venue for the Munster SH final. I think bringing this discussion into the public domain with such a derogatory tone is out of order from the Munster chairman and does a major disservice to the contribution Waterford have made to the Munster championship in the recent decades. In his role as chairman he would be better served trying to device a more equitable revenue model for championship matches rather than publicly commenting on internal discussions and "sweeteners". Waterford is the only Munster county without a reasonable big game venue and in retrospect maybe it is a good thing that Waterford did not go down this road as there are now too many stadiums in both Munster and the rest of the country. Every county is looking for scarce central funds to upgrade and maintain the facilities as well as the annual scramble to get a big fixture to their venue often ignoring completely the convenience of supporters. The recent Semple Stadium upgrade cost 18 million euro mostly from Munster Council, Croke Park, Lottery and advance ticket sales - Waterford have no access to this type of funding and do not even have access to revenue from matches they are competing in themselves.

Waterford are not in a position to make their own arrangements regarding home/away type arrangements like Cork/Kerry, Cork/Tipp etc but they should not be penalised for this and they should have access to some championship revenue particularly when their own teams are involved. After all it is the teams who make the spectacle and not the stadium. Waterford have added a lot of colour, excitement and revenue to the Munster championship scene over the past 15 years but are apparently frozen out of the cozy financial arrangements because they do not have their own stadium. To describe Waterford's approach as looking for "a sweetener" is a disgrace when they are merely looking for some return from the participation of their own teams - I suspect that Waterford have been the biggest hurling supporters in Munster over the past 15 years. The revenue return for hosting a big game is considerable - if we take a 40,000 crowd at 25 euro a ahead we have 1million euro with hosting county getting 15% or 150,000 euro with all major overheads like stewarding etc covered by Munster Council. Lets say 1/3 of people buy programs at 5 euro - another 66,000 euro less costs (probably nett 50K) plus the advertising revenue from the programs themselves. A percentage from catering etc - not really sure of value but probably worth 30-40K a year. Stadium advertising based on high profile TV coverage etc and of course the revenue to the local economy. I would think that the direct revenue to the hosting county for a 40,000 crowd fixture is of the order of a quarter of a million euro minimum even if we exclude stadium advertising and with major overheads covered by Munster Council. The Munster Council revenue would presumably be around 850,00 for a 40k crowd (25 X 40,000 less 15%) less running overheads - surely plenty of scope here for some contribution to participating teams.

As it stands Waterford are completely outside this potential revenue loop for the big championship matches and God knows we are not exactly flush with the readies. Every county should have a designated "home" venue for matches where they get a return on ticket sales/program revenue etc (Thurles or Nolan Park in case of Waterford ?) - they pay a reasonable fee for use of stadium or Munster Council pay this out of their percentage. On a simple level each participating county should get revenue from each match they participate in or else the total revenue from games should be split between all Munster counties. Some of this will have to come out of the 85% that the Munster Council get from ticket sales.

The Sean Walsh comments were completely out of order in both tone and content and I feel GAA supporters should add their voice to the debate so that hopefully a fairer system will be developed in future years. Waterford have been in a bunch of Munster finals in the last 15 years and have little or no revenue return from them - maybe it is time for Waterford to up stumps and make their own arrangements if Munster Council do not support them in an even handed way - surely even they see that the present system is unfair and unsustainable ! It would be difficult to play a Munster final if one team decided they were not going to turn up ! From a personal point of Nowlan Park is a handy run with Semple Stadium in second place and both surfaces are top class.The trip to the aging Cork stadium next week is not exactly filling me with anticipation and that is completely away from how I think the match is going to go.

Regards

Don Lehane
Dublin

re Waterford and a home venue for Championship games, like him or not, County Secretary made a very good argument in his 2010 County Convention report. In it he said that Waterford should enter into an agreement that would see the Waterford County Board hire Nolan Park on a match by match basis. Many people, mostly i suspect in and around the city area nearly threw off there clothes at the time. We had all this sh!te that we will never go to Kilkenny etc for a home game. Face it, it was the best option open to us and it still is. Cork and Tipp are never going to lease their grounds to us as a home venue to play the other side as they would loose too much money in the process. Anyway, why should the Munster Council take the game out of Cork, even our Munster Council Reps could not agree where the game should be played. Sean Walsh said of the twelve votes, (each county had 2) that it was ANthony Walsh and a Tipp delegate were the two that voted for the game to be taken out of Cork. It will be a long time before Waterford gets any favours in Munster, because of the stunts we have tried to pull regarding the munster final venue in recent years. Remember its only two years ago that we wanted to play Cork in Cork in the Munster Final, now we dont want to play Tipp there, and i am sure that we tried to get out of there last year. My memory is not as good as it used to be. And if memory serves me right we did not want to go to Limerick in 2008 to play Clare. OK that was a bit odd to fix the game for there, with Clare not even having to cross the shannon. We cant tell be allowed to tell the boards where we will play or wont play. It seems like an age long thing in Waterford. A few years back, I remember members of the Mount Sion Club saying they did not want to play hurling games in Lemybrien.

calvin_zola

from an economic point of view nowlan park should be a goer, unfortunately heads would get very upset because they would hate the kk lads to have some onemanupship on them

deisedude

<mod note> hurler on the ditch, I have deleted several of your posts because of their aggressive nature. Attack the post, not the poster. Also please refrain from posting just in capital letters as it makes the baby Jesus cry!

Cake Man

DLS 3-9 Mount Sion 1-7 in minor championship tonight. Wasn't a great game with the greasy conditions, DLS always in control and full value for the win.

solarith

calvin_zola wrote: »

from an economic point of view nowlan park should be a goer, unfortunately heads would get very upset because they would hate the kk lads to have some onemanupship on them

Pride doesn't pay players expenses.

calvin_zola

I agree, and I would be in favour of Nowlan park if you think I was against it.

deisebhoy17

calvin_zola wrote: »

from an economic point of view nowlan park should be a goer, unfortunately heads would get very upset because they would hate the kk lads to have some onemanupship on them

thats nonsense if thats the case, some people need to grow some balls and realise that we are in a huge mess anyway most counties are laughing at us as it is not least KK who lets be honest will always look down there noses at us no matter what!

Leave them say and think what they want we need to be cute about it and do whatever it takes to bring us out of this mess and whats best for ourselves and I think the vast majority of genuine gaa people see the huge benefits of this. Why not give it a 2 year trial period and if it dosent work then were not tied to anything. I can guarantee the very people who are dead against this are the people that dont bother going to the league or lesser championship games anyway

hardybuck

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

thats nonsense if thats the case, some people need to grow some balls and realise that we are in a huge mess anyway most counties are laughing at us as it is not least KK who lets be honest will always look down there noses at us no matter what!

Leave them say and think what they want we need to be cute about it and do whatever it takes to bring us out of this mess and whats best for ourselves and I think the vast majority of genuine gaa people see the huge benefits of this. Why not give it a 2 year trial period and if it dosent work then were not tied to anything. I can guarantee the very people who are dead against this are the people that dont bother going to the league or lesser championship games anyway

Open up discussions with all of the venues within reasonable travelling distance - Wexford Park, Nowlan Park, Gaelic Grounds, Thurles...and even Cork. See which one is prepared to offer the best package, and then take it from there.

calvin_zola

its win win for all I think

deisefolife

Munster Senior Hurling Championship Record since 2000
Played - 25
Won - 14
Lost - 8
Drawn - 3

not a bad record really

solarith

hardybuck wrote: »

Open up discussions with all of the venues within reasonable travelling distance - Wexford Park, Nowlan Park, Gaelic Grounds, Thurles...and even Cork. See which one is prepared to offer the best package, and then take it from there.

It was brought up again by co sec a month ago but the board refused to even discuss it.

hardybuck

solarith wrote: »

It was brought up again by co sec a month ago but the board refused to even discuss it.

I wonder if any of these venues are registered as seperate entities, running as a business? I think Fitzgerald Stadium is set up this way.

If this was the case, a group of indivduals - say Club Deise for example, would be able to make an enquiry as to how much the ground would cost to lease for a day. I'm sure they'd be able to do that even if they weren't set up as businesses.