Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820299#Comment_121820299

Bloody hell, I wish I hadn't gone on there.

I had previously had good time for Dronehawk, but talk about jibberish.

whisky_galore

People are entitled to their opinions. I think a lot of people are only waking up now, albeit too late, to lost potential.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121822496#Comment_121822496

Yeah it's either that or they're totally disengaged from the very many conversations being had about this line.

This line has not been included on the Cork commuter rail strategy, on pathfinder, on the all-Ireland Rail Review, in CMATS, in the Cork County Development Plan. In every single transport discussion, this line has been turned down. Rail to Youghal is not happening for the medium term. IÉ have absolutely no intention of reinstating it. There aren't enough people in Mogeely, Youghal, Killeagh. That's why an UEA or SDZ are needed to prompt extension of the line. I'm in favour of it and have been active in trying to pursue it, for the record!

Next, let's discuss the greenway. This greenway is part of pathfinder and is not "going away" even if rail is reinstated. It's part of the Cork-Waterford corridor. The greenway doesn't prevent the railway and it partially preserves the possibility of a railway in future whereas encroachment on the alignment was already a problem.

Thus, it is jibberish to keep bringing up the railway in relation to the greenway. You might as well talk about airports and hospitals "instead of the greenway", it's not going to happen.

Look, hopefully rail will come back too, but I think the incessant negativity around this one and "lycra clad" and the rest of the usual "drivetime radio" anti-cycling bingo card shows people's true colours. If they'd paved over the whole damn thing and made it a motorway, the likes of Dronehawk and his ilk wouldn't be bemoaning the lack of a railway. The one-eyed nature and tone of the comments is very transparent.

So yeah, as you say people are entitled to their opinions, and my opinion is that uninformed jibberish should be called out.

TLDR: "I'm all in favour of infrastructure, as long as it's for cars"

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818120#Comment_121818120

Don't love this at all, it's a silly route goes up an entirely unnecessary hill when there is a right of way through the golf course preserved that folk actively use (even though the golf club probably wishes they didn't)

There's going to be this lovely painted unused greenway on one side of the Dodder, whilst regular commuters will continue to ride along the dirt track through the course.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823273#Comment_121823273

Is the originally proposed greenway route not different to where the existing right-of-way is though?

I thought the plan for the greenway was to cross the river at Darty Park over the exiting bridge at the bottom of Dart Mills, and run along the riverbank across the practice area of the golf course before joining the Riversdale House laneway.

The existing right of way runs from Thorncliffe across the actual golf course, coming out onto the Riversdate House laneway - but it already includes a diversion away from the Dodder up Orwell Rd to be able to access it.

riddlinrussell

FYI now that major "Greenway" projects fall under the purview of TII, reports on them are included in TIIs (quarterly/yearly?) progress report, along with Cycleway schemes on N roads.

https://www.tii.ie/news/press-releases/large-scale-capital-proje/JCTC-i-1107-Report-Delivery-Status-Update.pdf

mayo.mick

Current status of greenway schemes.

timmyntc

With no judicial reviews etc, what is the timeline for each of phases in TIIs Greenway project management?

soap1978

Need more carparks beside these greenways

Consonata

https://twitter.com/randompadd80784/status/1763301697214878062?t=tmoB-BVz6NVMbaskx8YuBg&s=19

This eejit turned up at the Dodder Greenway Public Meeting.

riddlinrussell

I'd clarify that's only ongoing schemes under TII, for example The Barrow line of the grand canal, and significant offaly sections of the grand aren't on there because they were never part of the TII process (not 100% sure what the requirements for that are...)

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121835035#Comment_121835035

Eejit is the word. "You want to block the quays off" 🙄

Rulmeq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836245#Comment_121836245

But there's a 3 hour ambulance delay, he totally didn't pull that figure out of his ass.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836894#Comment_121836894

In terms of traffic a 3 hour ambulance delay is down to too many cars. If Eamon Ryan does nothing then it gets worse and worse. More buses less cars.

Of course there are other non traffic related reasons for ambulance delays but thats for the Minister for Health to sort out not Ryan.

Paddico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800046#Comment_121800046

There is. Theres a motorway all the way from Belfast to Cork 😉

veryangryman

Yay. No more good roads then. The bicycle salesman is guaranteed returned at next election if ye guys vote

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832795#Comment_121832795

Not sure why the Dublin parts of the Royal Canal Greenway are shown as Closeout (completed). Many of them haven't even started.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121837616#Comment_121837616

not true, there is no motorway from Naas to Dublin or from Faughart to Sprucefield. 😉

riddlinrussell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840231#Comment_121840231

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, to find pro cycling advocacy going on in the greenways thread! 😲

According to the Document TII have nothing actually written in for the royal canal in Dublin (Despite showing it in green, with a small section at Phase 4) I'd assume it's just an error on their part.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840231#Comment_121840231

Tell us what you want then. Continue building roads and reverse the only recent 2:1 policy of public transport versus roads? Critical roads will still be built but more emphasis on bypasses, reducing congestion and dangerous stretches. Have you any interest in addressing climate change or are you one of the blinkered deniers?

The lazy "bicycle salesman" term is getting tiresome at this stage. So you are against cycling and improving people's health as well?

veryangryman

Ye guys do realise we can have good roads and good cycling infrastructure at the same time? One doesn't have to exist without the other

riddlinrussell

Yes we do, we have the good roads (multiple billions worth of them in the last 30 years, they literally transformed the country) and now we'd like the same for cycling?

veryangryman

We don't have good roads. I gave a simple example of limerick to cork and got dope answer of how roads from Dublin are grand. Screw the rest of the country, right?

If you want decent cycle infrastructure you should try to see the bigger picture and the backlog of road projects that have needed building for decades across the country.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121844905#Comment_121844905

Compared to most other countries we have great roads. The M20 is an exception to the rule.

We do not however have good cycle infrastructure at all. And there are not many exceptions to that statement either. Look at the TII Greenway picture posted earlier in thread. Majority of that is not even near being built, and even if it all got done, it wouldn't be close to the same network as we have for roads in this country.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121844905#Comment_121844905

Criticising people for voting for Eamon Ryan is not looking at the bigger picture.

The M20/new N20 will be built and the N17 improvements and bypass sections will be built too. The railway phases will continue and link towns in the west coast as well. Blaming cycling facilities that barely got a look in until the greens got into government is barking up the wrong tree.

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820299#Comment_121820299

"Walkers should give way" says one commenter. Enough said. It's just another ribbon of tarmac then. Same commenter dismisses bridleways as one of them English things. Yet again, it's infrastructure for the guys. Nice bit of tarmac Sir.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847472#Comment_121847472

Did you want to revert the Youghal alignment to bridleway??? I see this type of comment from time to time on here, bemoaning the use of tar on greenways. The truth is greenways are for all users, some people who use them are amongst the most frail and mobility impaired, in my experience. Requesting that greenways not be tarred is totally unreasonable.

And of course pedestrians have priority BTW, anyone who was suggesting walkers should give way is also talking complete jibberish. But I take exception to complaints about the use of tar. This was not a bridleway or a scenic nature trail, and never was. It's also the country's first intercity active transport route. If they were paving an existing woodland trail I'd also agree that tar is undesirable, but that's absolutely not what this is.

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847594#Comment_121847594

I'm not walking on any path where "Greenways are mostly for cyclists and walkers should give way". Why is it all about the bikes in Ireland?

riddlinrussell

Because it (alongside pedestrian facilities) has recieved serious under investment for many decades (not just in Ireland, but we definitely seem to have taken some of the worst parts of the 'American Model' over the 80s-2010s') and now that there is an infinitesimal rebalancing of that under investment it seems like a huge deal, when it really isn't.

In terms of spending, the amount spent even now on cycling is relatively tiny (especially when you actually dig into that funding and see how much is spent on stuff like 'car park for greenway').

If you consider even a relatively modest goal of getting 10-20% of journeys to be by bike, coupled with the factor of 10 cheaper building of cycling infrastructure, and probably a factor of 100 cheaper maintenance cost (if you can keep cars/trucks from parking on/driving on it), it's a transport mode that offers some serious value to people and the government. (Not even factoring in health benefits).

If properly maintained how much do you reckon the entire cycleway/greenway network in Ireland will cost the country vs just the costs of motorway maintenance?

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847800#Comment_121847800

What on earth are you talking about? Did you read my post that you were replying to? I explicitly said that pedestrians have priority and that anyone suggesting walkers should give way is talking jibberish. That's not just opinion, it's written into all of the official design documentation.

And what do you mean by "all about the bikes"? Is there some metric by which bikes have the dominant share? Even greenways aren't "all about bikes", they're probably more used by walkers.

It honestly seems like you're trying to find someone to disagree with you. Like you're looking for a culture war that isn't really available here.