Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643416#Comment_120643416

The only thing close to a Greenway I have ever used at commute times is also used by walkers at commute times. I would imagine places like the Dublin canals are the same.

If cyclists want to cycle at speed what already happens is they target the road leading to all sorts of crying from car users about them not using the "cycleway"

Most people regardless of whether they are cyclists walkists, talkists or dogists are going to use it in the evenings or weekends when not working so any group "targeting" a particular time is nonsense.

Markcheese

I suppose for me a greenway is a route largely through greenspace ..not really a road side path - they do tend to be shared space so that going to reduce bike speeds

A cycleway would be a laned cycle path , - i'm just not sure whats the attraction of putting them up the middle of a foot path ..

And i see nothing wrong with a track or trail , thats not supersmooth - not suitable for bikes or buggys .. but i suppose it needs a different name ..

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643416#Comment_120643416

No, where I have greenways near me locally, the bus stop is on the greenway. The train users alight onto the greenway. There's churches directly on the greenway. There's schools on the greenway. So there are regularly people grouped on the greenway at commute hours. I appreciate that this doesn't apply to every greenway, but it certainly applies to the ones near me. If anything it's safer at a higher speed outside of commuter hours.

Something going through literal green fields or long stretches of empty road? No major issues. Something going directly past shops, churches, schools, community centres? Greenways are totally inappropriate there. Segregation should be used past these.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643482#Comment_120643482

Of course you will have people walking at all times of the day but there shouldn't be an issue with that. I think the issue being raised is that it is difficult to cycle at a constant high speed but that really isn't the point of a Greenway.

By targeting certain times, I mean someone looking to cycle at speed should probably look to finish their cycle well before 9am on weekend mornings when numbers of other users are likely to be very low. I'd imagine their would be few users between 10am and noon on school days too.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643820#Comment_120643820

Well I've said here several times before that I think the term Greenway is used too liberally and really should be limited to routes of a certain standard. There should be a formal definition and other terms for paths of a lesser standard.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644327#Comment_120644327

"I think the issue being raised is that it is difficult to cycle at a constant high speed but that really isn't the point of a Greenway"

I am in agreement which is why I don't think Greenways should be built using Active Travel money or advertised as active travel.

People wanting to go quickly from A to B for work or race training most likely don't use Greenways. You say they should pick certain times but truth on the ground is they just pick the road as I do myself.

Greenways need to happen in parallel to active travel not as active travel.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644348#Comment_120644348

If you think Greenways are confusing, look at Blueways! You can walk some Blueways but you need a canoe for others and I think I've read of one where you snorkel or swim! Wouldn't be surprised if you need a dinghy for others.

But I agree, Greenway is too catch all and should imho only be applied to low speed leisure cycling and walking, tourists etc. Problem is that it's a catchy phrase and is thus used to catch funding.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644348#Comment_120644348

If by active travel you mean segregated cycle lanes on roads, apart from the large urban centres, there would be limited demand for such, particularly if the is a Greenway along the corridor. For longer distances, >20km, it would be expensive to provide as you are on roads through rural areas. Most people would favour an offroad Greenway if available. In towns and villages where speed limits are reduced, cycle lanes beside the road becomes workable and attractive to more people, but that is probably not attractive for race training.

Active travel is people moving around under their own steam in the course of their daily lives, a segregated Greenway is the best option for this as it caters to a wide variety of users. Active travel certainly isn't just people going quickly from A to B for work or race training.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644465#Comment_120644465

By active travel I mean commuter routes. That may be to schools, work or urban centres.

Yes active travel would be urban or get to somewhere urban.

The example I will use is the one I know best which is Limerick. The actual Greenway is not a commuter route as it is not "crow flies" for the most part. The city "Greenways" are city to UL which has too many pedestrians for an efficient commuter cycle and a tiny stretch in Castletroy which is actually very good for the people who live on the few hundred metres it covers.

I'm all for Greenways it's just they should not be and are not an alternative to cycle lanes.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644524#Comment_120644524

As the crow flies is an odd criteria given there are so many potential start points and destinations it can only be as the crow flies between a limit portion of them.

Maybe Limerick is different given the larger population but in most parts of this country, it probably is hard to justify cycle lanes if there is a nearby Greenway serving the same route. It would be better to put resources into providing adequate facilities on other routes.

I'm sure there are plenty of commuter cyclists who are quite happy with the city to UL Greenway, regardless of the number of pedestrians.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643789#Comment_120643789

They already exist as waymarked walking trails, they're not as sexy as Greenways even though they are far more green from an environmental impact pov than a Greenway could ever be.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646125#Comment_120646125

Yup .. i suppose theres room and demand for all of these , but greenways are the buzz word of the day ..

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647589#Comment_120647589

It's funny alright. People in Limerick talk about how amazing it is to have the Greenway about a half hour drive away but forget we have the far more aesthetically beautiful trail through Cratloe woods on our doorstep for years.

It's not that Cratloe isn't busy it's just nobody goes on about it. It's not the only example in Limerick either.

JohnC.

A lot of it is marketing. I live approx half way between Waterford and Carrick-on-Suir. The Waterford greenway is of course well known and publicised. I only discovered the Carrick blueway by accident one day when, after years of meaning to, I finally went down to the river in Kilshelan at that little car park to see what it's like down there and discovered there was a whole trail by the river.

I also discovered a forest trail very close to home that I never knew was there. Since then I've gone out of my way to find these places in surrounding counties and places I've gone on holiday and had many nice walks.

mayo.mick

Sligo Greenway public consultations

ED E

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643416#Comment_120643416

You should see the Dodder. With WFH loads take their little pup out for a walk around 8AM right when the commuter road trains come through. Pup walks left side, owner right, nice little lead strung over the entire width. Bit of a bugbear of mine.

whisky_galore

It's all down to people living in their own entitled little bubble, and it's not just dog walkers.

hans aus dtschl

Yeah but let's be clear here, we need the amenities for the dog walking crew too, it's just that paying for that out of the Active Travel budget is an outrageous abuse of the funding.

I continue to make written public submissions to the effect that completed "urban" (roadside) greenways near me should not be shared infrastructure and I continue to be told I'm wrong. I'm also being told that I should either commute more slowly or cycle on the road. There's no winning there.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120652819#Comment_120652819

Well we are not going to get tailor-made facilities for every category; dog walkers/fast cyclists/slow cyclists/children/walkers etc etc so you and everyone else are just going to have to suck it up and learn to live with one other. There is only so much in the pot and people should be damn glad they are getting any facility at all.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656822#Comment_120656822

No we shouldn't suck it up we should demand that DoT money earmarked for active travel goes towards transport and not some park for dog walkers and kids.

It's like fixing up Mondello race track with motorway money.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656822#Comment_120656822

Yes, car drivers should have to suck it up and accept cyclists on the road. How dare they demand infrastructure for commuter cyclists to take traffic off the roads

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656822#Comment_120656822

That's a bizarre statement. We should send motorway traffic through every village in the country by that logic, because it's lovely and scenic and "there's only so much money to go around". Our motorways should cater for horse and cart. Etc. Reductio ad absurdium by your logic we shouldn't pave roads at all.

I strongly disagree.

Transport infrastructure should be optimised for transport. Optimising it for leisure is a misuse of the funding. Asking people to "suck it up" and go more slowly than before just because the infrastructure has been designed wrongly makes no sense whatsoever.

If we're removing hard shoulders and putting in dedicated infrastructure for the explicit purposes of segregation then we should be segregating end users.

In terms of money it's not even more expensive to do it right. One of the newest sections in Ballinglanna where the City Council recently took over has been segregated taking the exact same space and very similar materials. So your comment about "only so much in the pot" is madness. If there's only so much in the pot then we should be spending it better! And we're running a massive surplus with a shortage of sustainable projects currently so it's absolutely NOT a case of "only so much in the pot" in the first place!

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656992#Comment_120656992

Cycling on motorways should be allowed and the speed limit should be 30kmh!

Suck it up etc.

Sam Russell

Mod: Let us not get silly.

reductio ad absurdum is not a useful debating tactic.

Speaking of silly, the usual ranting about greenways is alive and well

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/farmer-concerns-over-greenway-raised-with-councils/

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41148898.html

breezy1985

Farmers complaining about lack of privacy makes me laugh. They have some of the most private houses in the country.

They better be closing their eyes driving into Limerick City to protect my privacy 🤣

Also (and this is a genuine question) has there been many incidents of anti-social behavior on Greenways ?

I mean real Greenway through farms and stuff and not the Grand Canal under Croke Park or whatever.

nilhg

https://kildarecoco.ie/AllServices/Planning/PublicRealm/BarrowBlueway/230522%20%20Progress%20Report%20No.pdf

KCCs latest progress (or lack of) report on the Barrow Blueway, works are continuing but it's glacially slow compared to whan they started, however the end is in sight and that's something to be thankful for.

getoutadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659291#Comment_120659291

They're just angling for more "compo". Tried and trusted method. They do it for all infrastructure whether it be roads, gas pipielines, electricity lines, water pipelines et etc etc....yet have no problem availing of the benefits of same infrastructure when laid. They're masters of the poor mouth. Fifty years of the EU CAP has reinforced the habit. The proposed water pipeline from the Shannon will be a compo goldmine.

Grassey

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/kerry/south-kerry-news/progress-continues-on-south-kerry-greenway-it-is-going-to-be-wonderful/a963319554.html

There has been significant progress on the South Kerry Greenway in recent months and currently work is taking place in Glenbeigh just close to the viaduct

Kerry County Council have also confirmed that the section between Mountain Stage and Kells will go to tender in late summer and works will take place on this section in 2024. This is one of the most challenging sections of the route.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660620#Comment_120660620

Glenbeigh village is not near the viaduct (it's about 11km from it) and what they've done so far is work on what was an already existing walkway. Talk about overegging the pudding.