Your thoughts on pet cats roaming free

Discodog

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how would you react if kildare trapped your cat - on his property - and gave it to the Council for disposal?

If cats are to be killed then it should only be done by a trained, approved, licensed operator. The only humane way is to live trap. If, for example, you shoot a nursing female you condemn a litter of kittens to starve which is cruelty. Live trapping also allows for an assessment to be made as to whether the cat may be someone's pet.

Control laws are bought in to solve a problem. A stray dog can cause serious damage such as biting, road accidents etc. Most of the complaints made against cats would not constitute serious damage. Try suing a cat owner for letting their cat poo in your garden. Even if the Judge agreed that the owner was at fault you'd be lucky to get €5 in compensation. Ireland follows a long way behind most countries in animal legislation & only a very few areas have introduced any cat control laws.

Keeping an indoor cat from a kitten is one thing as the cat grows up knowing no other life. Confining an outdoor cat indoors is a whole different ball game & most cats will show serious signs of distress.

I have had a cat killed on a road & I take responsibility for not caging it. It was a minor road & over 800 yards from my house. But the cat had a wonderful life for 8 years climbing trees, roaming on pasture, exploring the garden etc.

I guess that it is better for people to vent their anger here rather than by taking it out on a totally innocent cat. As for DBB's comment about the Wheelie Bin incident, the UK public were pretty clear about who they felt was at fault & the Court agreed - it wasn't the cat owner.

Discodog

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Arguing that it is for "vermin control" purposes is hypocritical.

Can you imagine the level of mice & rat damage in the Country if every cat was caged ?

kildare.17hmr

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Not my point.
My point is that it never once occured to me to kill any animals that were left outside and were an inconvenience to me.

I have never called a warden either.
I guess if it came to a point where I really wanted something done about it, the first thing I would do is knock at the owner's door.
Most cats that are re-offenders if it's pooping or slashing bales are probably offending on a precise perimeter, and it wouldn't be that hard to locate owners.

My point is that a hunter grabbing a gun to shoot cats or any pets outside using the excuse the pet is a nuisance is just looking for that, an excuse, to indulge in their past time. Arguing that it is for "vermin control" purposes is hypocritical. Bottom line is : person is looking for an excuse to go out shooting cats.

There are lots of things that other people do that I don't like, that are an inconvenience to me. And I do things that are an inconvenience to others sometimes. That's life. You make allowances for some things, and hopefully people will too, for some things you do. In my world you don't always have to "take matters in your own hands".

no one is looking for an excuse to shoot a cat, in fact you dont need an excuse if you are on land which you can shoot on and its s safe shot. you are makin hunters out to be monsters saying that. a dog would be treatedthe same if worrying livestock but nobody
wants to shoot a dog but will if they have to
All the things you mentioned happen to every one else too and that is not what this thread is about it is about what cats are doing in my garden, not outside my garden.

DBB

Discodog wrote: »

As for DBB's comment about the Wheelie Bin incident, the UK public were pretty clear about who they felt was at fault & the Court agreed - it wasn't the cat owner.

Sigh. Once again, the point is missed.
Maybe if I write this slowly, you'll absorb the point better. Sheesh.
That a person is prepared to trap a cat in a wheelie bin, or shoot it, or trap it in a snare, or deliberately drive over it, or poison it, whilst all despicable, cruel, in some cases even illegal, this is not the point many in this thread are trying to make.
The point I'm making is that when a cat owner allows their cat out, they must accept that their cat may not come home again, and may die a horrendous death. Or suffer a frightening fate like being thrown into a wheelie bin.
Personally, I cannot understand how anyone could set their pets up like this. It's a dangerous world out there, and it is our responsibility, as grown-ups, to do the best we can to protect our pets, and our children.
Once again I've spotted another post about it being better to let your cat out than to keep it safe... So once again I ask, why not build a run for your cat? Everyone wins that way, with small compromise by the cat and its owner.

Bad2dabone, I'm really upset for you and your cat, and was tentative about posting as this is all very close to the bone for you now. But perhaps your experience will make some readers rethink about letting their cats roam free... I hope so. I think many people let their cats out without realising the possible consequences, it's the people who still let them out, in the full knowledge of the possible consequences, and then try to justify it that horrify me.
Sorry again for you and your poor cat :-(

Mountainsandh

@Discodog
Yes, and I don't want to go 100% on this because I've never been bothered to count, but practically every farmer I know/near me owns cats themselves and are well able to keep cat numbers in check if required.
Never heard of bales issues with cats before.

So reallistically we are just talking about cats pooping and peeing in people's gardens. Oh, and sneaking in to someone's house the odd time.

I can be an awful grumpy moan sometimes, Mr Mountainsandh will tell me to cop on on a regular basis when I rant about something someone else did I don't like... But that's just it, I give an'ol' rant, and get over it. And I know most others do too. It's OK to get p££d off once in a while over something your neighbours are doing, it's OK to go knock at someone's door and give out about something that becomes a persistant problem for you.

If someone turned up at my door complaining about my cat pooing in their garden I would definitely hear it, give it due consideration, and try and find a solution to lessen or eliminate the problem.

Letting cats roam outside is making a decision for what's best for your cat, based on your own opinions, and yes that might inconvenience some in the process. Just as other people make decisions on how they want to live their lives that might have the odd inconvenience in it for me. Big deal.
Can't walk up that particular stretch of road because of the dogs. Really annoys me, I may rant about it sometimes, you never know, might even have a chat to owners about it some day. No biiiig deal though :rolleyes:

planetX

I've lived beside 3 farms, in one case there were silage bales right up against the low wall seperating us. My cats loved to sunbathe on them, and hunted every night in the farmyard. Was on great terms with the farmer, and he never ever mentioned damage to bales. Surely crows do most damage...

DBB

planetX wrote: »

Surely crows do most damage...

Yes they do. If yourself and mountainsandh would care to read the results of the study I posted yesterday.
53% of yard-stored bales damaged by birds.
29% damaged by cats.

looksee

I have always had a cats, I have two at the monent, they all roamed free. The first cat lived 13 years till he got some sort of cat AIDS, the second one lived to 20 and died of old age.

There are lots of cats in the neighbourhood, the only time I have had problems with cats leaving their mess in the garden is when the soil has been prepared for new seedlings, otherwise neither my own nor the others cause any problems.

I have a neighbour with a very neat garden and I was surprised to hear them say they were glad to see the cats as they saw one of them with a mouse, and say they have not had any rodents since. (tbh I havent seen any rodents at all but I am not going to argue )

I think a lot of these arguments are based on whether you like cats or not, I am not a dog lover and consider them to be sh-t-machines!

Mountainsandh

Mountainsandh wrote: »

My point is that a hunter grabbing a gun to shoot cats or any pets outside using the excuse the pet is a nuisance is just looking for that, an excuse, to indulge in their past time. Arguing that it is for "vermin control" purposes is hypocritical. Bottom line is : person is looking for an excuse to go out shooting cats.

Sorry posters,

While I know I "bowed out" of this thread some time ago, but I've been following it with interest since. Often I wanted to give my two cents worth, however I believe that I had gotten my point of view across.

That said, I feel the above post need to be refuted.

I don't know whether the poster knows anybody that hunts, or was simply trying to flame hunters.

To begin, it was completely off topic.

Secondly, as someone who hunts (legal game in a perfectly legal and safe manner), I found the above statement repugnant and insulting, and dangerously inflammatory.

People who hunt are found in every strata of Irish society, from doctors to Guards to IT workers, from both rural and urban backgrounds.

People who pursue hunting a pastime do not "look for an excuse" to go shooting cats, or indeed pets of any description. We do not "indulge" in shooting pets.

To do so would be illegal, immoral and most likely grossly stupid.

I for one would never make a sweeping statement such as the poster made above, even if I was well versed in the topic which was being discussed.

Regards,
Druss.

kylith

Mountainsandh wrote: »

So reallistically we are just talking about cats pooping and peeing in people's gardens. Oh, and sneaking in to someone's house the odd time.

Once again, it's not just the physical dirt, though I'm still at a loss as to why I should have to clean up after your pet, it's the pooing in children's sandpits spreading disease, pooing in vegetable patches digging up seedlings and rendering the crops inedible due to fecal contamination effectively wiping out an entire crop, it's pestering pet dogs and causing nuisance barking, it's entering people's homes possibly causing allergic reactions, it's killing ornamental fish, killing pet birds, killing chickens, it's the distress caused to adults and children by seeing a cat flattened on the road.

Having to clean up after someone else's animal is bad enough, it's the lack of cat owners stopping their pets from doing all the other stuff as well that causes bad feeling. Especially when the cat owner then turns around and says that we should have to cat-proof our gardens to stop them getting in, rather than them keeping the cat in.

Mountainsandh

Druss Rua I am not making a sweeping statement about all hunters, I am specifically talking about " a hunter grabbing a gun to shoot cats or any pets outside".

There are people shooting deer, fox, and rabbits outside where I live all the time and I have no problems with them (with the legal ones at least).

I have a problem however with someone suggesting they might shoot someone's pet for vermin control purposes.

edit : and it's not off topic, since the hunter's/dispatching topic is one that has been mentioned by OP in this thread, otherwise I wouldn't have thought of it.
Some argue that hunters shooting your cat is part of the dangers of letting a cat roam, I argue that it shouldn't be.

ingen

roaming cats are a nuisance, they crap in everyone else's garden and dont in their own.. they are a health hazard..


there should be a law that cats should be kept under control and not allowed to roam free, and possibly cause RTA's .. all too often i have seen them mushed on the road..

at least a dog has some sort of personality, cats are sneaky disgusting animals.

a lot of cat owners dont give a fcuk where the cat craps, as long as its not their garden.:mad:

ingen

Discodog wrote: »

Can you imagine the level of mice & rat damage in the Country if every cat was caged ?

can you also imagine the huge reduction of cat poo / disease thats deposited in other peoples gardens also.

mossy2390

seriously how do some of ye expect cats to be controlled bar locking them in the house 24/7 which would drive them mad, cats can easily climb straight up a 7 foot wall and any higher and they jump from level to level to get up it, its very very hard to keep them in its not like a dog were a fence and a gate will keep them in, also i dont see how ye are finding all these problems with cats, ive had two cats for the last 21 years and the only time i find crap in the garden is when a dog runs in and dose his business and also digs up the place, there's stray cats around here too and even then there's no trace of them.
to be honest ye would be better off complaining about dogs they do far more damage, crap all over the place in the grass and on footpaths and attack people.

so this thing of all cat owners should confine the cats is crazy, you might as well be asking the government to confine all the birds that are flying around they crap everywhere, ruin crops and some types like magpies are really annoying with all the squawking

ingen

Mountainsandh wrote: »

In my world you don't always have to "take matters in your own hands".

when you approach the cat owner and tell them of the problem, and they say " sure what can i do how can i keep the cat in" in other words they dont give a flying fcuk.

cats are vermin, and if causing health/safety issues can be taken out accordingly.

ingen

mossy2390 wrote: »

seriously how do some of ye expect cats to be controlled bar locking them in the house 24/7 which would drive them mad, cats can easily climb straight up a 7 foot wall and any higher and they jump from level to level to get up it, its very very hard to keep them in its not like a dog were a fence and a gate will keep them in, also i dont see how ye are finding all these problems with cats, ive had two cats for the last 21 years and the only time i find crap in the garden is when a dog runs in and dose his business and also digs up the place, there's stray cats around here too and even then there's no trace of them.
to be honest ye would be better off complaining about dogs they do far more damage, crap all over the place in the grass and on footpaths and attack people.

so this thing of all cat owners should confine the cats is crazy, you might as well be asking the government to confine all the birds that are flying around they crap everywhere, ruin crops and some types like magpies are really annoying with all the squawking

i keep my dogs under control, they only crap in their own big garden, they dont roam freely, and dont crap in anyone else's garden.

the simple problem is that there are too many people keeping cats in residential estates, and the places are not big enough for the number of cats.


magpies are a pleasure, compared to cats!

ingen

Discodog wrote: »

If cats are to be killed then it should only be done by a trained, approved, licensed operator.
at who's cost?

The only humane way is to live trap.

SNIP


Live trapping also allows for an assessment to be made as to whether the cat may be someone's pet.

that assessment is not required.

. Most of the complaints made against cats would not constitute serious damage. Try suing a cat owner for letting their cat poo in your garden.

have a read of this then http://www.ehow.com/list_6059679_diseases-cat-feces.html

Even if the Judge agreed that the owner was at fault you'd be lucky to get €5 in compensation.
who is looking for compensation?


Confining an outdoor cat indoors is a whole different ball game & most cats will show serious signs of distress.

you forgot to mention that the cat also causes distress to other property owners nearby by crapping in their garden.

.

I guess that it is better for people to vent their anger here rather than by taking it out on a totally innocent cat.
some people actually deal with the issue.

....

Mountainsandh

"can you also imagine the huge reduction of cat poo / disease thats deposited in other peoples gardens also. "

You'd swear people are agonising left right and center from contracting toxoplasmosis :rolleyes:

ingen wrote: »

when you approach the cat owner and tell them of the problem, and they say " sure what can i do how can i keep the cat in" in other words they dont give a flying fcuk.

cats are vermin, and if causing health/safety issues can be taken out accordingly.

see my post above about hunters targetting pets.

Somehow ingen I have a sneaking suspicion you haven't tried much liaising with pet cat owners, maybe I'm wrong, maybe you've talked dozens of times to dozens of owners.

kylith

mossy2390 wrote: »

seriously how do some of ye expect cats to be controlled bar locking them in the house 24/7 which would drive them mad, cats can easily climb straight up a 7 foot wall and any higher and they jump from level to level to get up it, its very very hard to keep them in its not like a dog were a fence and a gate will keep them in, also i dont see how ye are finding all these problems with cats, ive had two cats for the last 21 years and the only time i find crap in the garden is when a dog runs in and dose his business and also digs up the place, there's stray cats around here too and even then there's no trace of them.
to be honest ye would be better off complaining about dogs they do far more damage, crap all over the place in the grass and on footpaths and attack people.

so this thing of all cat owners should confine the cats is crazy, you might as well be asking the government to confine all the birds that are flying around they crap everywhere, ruin crops and some types like magpies are really annoying with all the squawking

Cats can certainly be kept indoors. One of my friends adopted a cat who had contracted FLV in his outdoor life. Due to his illness he had to be kept indoors and he happily hid in boxes and on top of the wardrobe for the rest of his life. He never tried to escape. Other friends of mine kept their cat in from kittenhood and trained it to walk on a lead, this is the friendliest cat I've ever come across because of his constant proximity to people, no-where near as standoffish as most cats. If a cat can't be kept indoors due to their roaming instinct how could anyone be expected to keep something like a Malamute confined? They can jump over 6', have a huge amount of energy and a strong instinct to roam, yet people can and do keep them confined. If you can't keep a 7kg cat confined then I despair for you.

The difference between roaming cats and dogs is that if there's a nuisance dog you can call the warden and have them removed, there's no such facility for us who are tired of other people's cats.

If your cats aren't pooing in your garden where do you think they're doing it? Is that fair on you neighbours?

ppink

Mountainsandh wrote: »

@Discodog

So reallistically we are just talking about cats pooping and peeing in people's gardens. Oh, and sneaking in to someone's house the odd time.

No we are talking about:

using peoples gardens as toilets

driving other peoples pets crazy....dogs?

killing off the garden birds

ruining animal feed

You making the decision that it is ok for me to run over your pet




At least that is what I got from the topic anyway.

I would be interested to know if there would be that massive an increase in mice and rats if cats were kept in.
my neighbour has a roaming cat and it kills mainly birds. my dogs kill more mice and rats than their cat does I would say.

mossy2390

oh of course sure il just go and put a 7 foot fence around my massive garden and lets not forget to cut down every tree in my garden because they can use them to escape sure Malamutes can climb trees too can they and are agile enough to even be able to get onto the roof a two story house of course they are sure there much harder to confine than a cat!! like i say bar locking the cat inside its whole life keeping confined is bloody hard, besides why would i want to i have one neighbor who also has a "wandering cat" who never craps in my garden either, and on the other side theres a big field and a forest where they sometimes go after mice and rats. my cats crap under a bush in the bottom corner of the garden and bury it as ive seen them do it many many time so they dont crap all over my neighbors house,

sure you may as well get all dog owners to lock there dogs inside to save people from barking, get them to wear muzzles all the time when there out for a walk, have them on chokers to keep them under control if they go for someone,

but this dosent happen to all dogs dose it they roam free and crap everywhere, attack people and other dogs,

the point is you cant just have a blanket rule that all cats must be kept confined when all dogs are not even confined or muzzled or controlled properly.

my cats cause no hassle to anyone because theres no one around and there has never been anything said about them, they spend most the day sleeping in the garden or in the house and wander in the field sometimes. so should ALL cat owners have to confine them?? dont be so stupid

star-pants

Sorry guys, I've had enough of people flaunting the rules of the forum, ignoring mod warnings and generally taking the mick - I'm locking this thread because people just can't seem to have civil conversations. I know there are a few of you who are being civil and posting decent posts and it's an awful shame that a handful of ignorant posters want to ruin it for the rest of us but if one more post gets reported/another person goes on about shooting cats we'll have the admins wondering why on earth this was left open.

Hellrazer

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