Your thoughts on pet cats roaming free

kylith

Mo60 wrote: »

How do you know what I would say. As I said I have given my opinion, politely, as is my way.

No further comment is needed on my part.

How do I know what you would say? I'll explain; the fact that you have refused to answer my question would lead me to believe that you are afraid that people would disagree with your answer. Since no reasonable person could disagree if you said 'If someone complained about my cat I would accept that and make sure it stayed in my garden from then on' I can only conclude that your answer would be the opposite; I.e. You'd say something along the lines of there was no law against you letting your cat roam, and then tell them to spend possibly hundreds of euros in excluding your cat from their property.

If I'm wrong I'd be delighted, but unfortunately I don't think I am.

The only thing you've said is that they haven't complained which doesn't mean they're happy with the situation, just that they haven't complained.

Discodog

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

mo60. 3 times you have been asked a simple question and 3 times you have avoided answering it.

Is this a discussion forum or the inquisition ? Surely we all have a right to choose what we post & whether we post.

If I had a cat & someone complained, it would depend entirely on the nature & validity of the complaint & the attitude of the complainant.

kylith

Shanao wrote: »

As I said in an earlier post, if anyone came to complain to me about my cat causing damage, he would be kept in from there on, no problem. He was a stray before he came to us and semi-wild, and claws at the windows and doors if he doesn't get out for about an hour everyday, despite having run of the entire house. He is tagged and microchipped and comes home to use the litterbox.
If he ever did cause damage, like I said, I would do everything possible to keep it from happening again by keeping him inside. I would hope that every other responsible cat owner would do the same,

Good for you.

Shanao wrote: »

As animals go, cats are second class citizens in this country; they really get a raw deal.

In my opinion it's because so many cat owners appear not to care for their animals by letting them roam and get into dangerous situations with roads, getting trapped in outbuildings, altercations with other animals, etc. If they don't appear to care for their pets why should anyone else?

Discodog

kylith wrote: »

How do I know what you would say? I'll explain; the fact that you have refused to answer my question would lead me to believe that you are afraid that people would disagree with your answer. Since no reasonable person could disagree if you said 'If someone complained about my cat I would accept that and make sure it stayed in my garden from then on' I can only conclude that your answer would be the opposite; I.e. You'd say something along the lines of there was no law against you letting your cat roam, and then tell them to spend possibly hundreds of euros in excluding your cat from their property.

If I'm wrong I'd be delighted, but unfortunately I don't think I am.

The only thing you've said is that they haven't complained which doesn't mean they're happy with the situation, just that they haven't complained.

But in reality there may be several cats that are being a nuisance. A friend of mine loves feeding wild birds. They live in an estate & have counted over 12 different cats visiting their back garden. Especially in an urban setting it may be impossible to watch every cat, trace every owner & complain to each one. A simple cat deterrent might be a better option.

Shanao

kylith wrote: »

Good for you.

In my opinion it's because so many cat owners appear not to care for their animals by letting them roam and get into dangerous situations with roads, getting trapped in outbuildings, altercations with other animals, etc. If they don't appear to care for their pets why should anyone else?

That's what I mean as well. Its because of irresponsible owners and of course the people who consider it fun to torture cats:mad:

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

There are some interesting bylaws regarding cat ownership in other countries, since some here feel Ireland is not up to par with other countries perhaps we should be bringing in some of the bylaws others have to adhere to
http://www.ipswich.qld.gov.au/documents/health/cats_permit_application_kit_june_2011.pdf

You know Ireland well enough. Do you seriously think that anything like this would be introduced here ? We have dog laws & they are ignored so cat law wouldn't stand a chance. Email your local TD & suggest it & let us know the response.

kylith

Discodog wrote: »

But in reality there may be several cats that are being a nuisance. A friend of mine loves feeding wild birds. They live in an estate & have counted over 12 different cats visiting their back garden. Especially in an urban setting it may be impossible to watch every cat, trace every owner & complain to each one. A simple cat deterrent might be a better option.

A deterrent which would be completely unnecessary if these cat owners took the time to ask themselves if they were 100% sure that none of the people between 1acre and a few kilometres away, depending on size of cat's territory (http://www.knowyourcat.info/info/teritory.htm), would mind a cat in their garden. And unless they could be 100% sure kept their cat in their garden. As numerous people have already said; why should I have to be out of pocket because you refuse to control your pet?

kildare.17hmr

Discodog wrote: »

Is this a discussion forum or the inquisition ? Surely we all have a right to choose what we post & whether we post.

If I had a cat & someone complained, it would depend entirely on the nature & validity of the complaint & the attitude of the complainant.

come on now dd listen to yourself. You would say the very same thing if you asked a simple question 3 times, how can we discuss something if people refuse to answer a simple question. A question that you and another poster have answered

Cherry Blossom

Discodog wrote: »

Is this a discussion forum or the inquisition ? Surely we all have a right to choose what we post & whether we post.

If I had a cat & someone complained, it would depend entirely on the nature & validity of the complaint & the attitude of the complainant.

Yes It's a discussion forum - where trolling isn't tolerated, selectively quoting from others posts to suit your own agenda and deliberately take the thread off topic isn't a discussion.

littlebug

It's the same 4 cats that poo in my garden all the time. They come from the house straight across from me. They'll do it right in front of me... sometimes in the beds, other times right out on the lawn with no effort made at burying. I have had to pick up- up to 10 poos at one go from the side lawn. On the beds, behind shrubs doesn't make it any better... it just make me not want to do any gardening:( Kids won't walk on side and front grass= play space halved.. and its not a huge space to start with. Cat owner believes cats need to be free and she has a lovely clean garden.
I grew up with cats and dogs and didn't favour one over the other. I can see the attraction of cats but this mess, and the fact that I can't feed the birds,which I love to do, has led to me seriously disliking (if not despising) them.

TooManyDogs

Here's a hypothetical question.
If Ireland was to bring in a cat law that gave cats rights, to protect them from cruelty but also required owners to buy a licence, contain the cat on the owner's property and compensate people if they cause an accident and get hit by a car much like a dog owner has to would cat owners want that kind of legislation?

Bizzum

Discodog wrote: »

Many people would regard stray dogs as an even bigger pest. Do you think that people should be able to dispatch them ?

People ARE able to dispatch a stray dog worrying livestock.

A nuisance cat merits the same treatment.

Your observations on farming are naive in the extreme. Best leave it to the experts.
I don't need a keyboard on front of me to tell me how to farm.

Shanao

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Here's a hypothetical question.
If Ireland was to bring in a cat law that gave cats rights, to protect them from cruelty but also required owners to buy a licence, contain the cat on the owner's property and compensate people if they cause an accident and get hit by a car much like a dog owner has to would cat owners want that kind of legislation?

Definitely. I dont know why we dont have that legislation already.

Mo60

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Yes It's a discussion forum - where trolling isn't tolerated, selectively quoting from others posts to suit your own agenda and deliberately take the thread off topic isn't a discussion.

Is trolling when someone disagrees with your post or opinion. You took the thread off topic by bringing horses into the discussion.

I posted to show my past experience with neighbours. Until it happens how can I state how I would deal with a complaint. As a previous poster has said it would depend on the situation.

Mr. Presentable

Out of curiosity, how would you react if kildare trapped your cat - on his property - and gave it to the Council for disposal?

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

Is this a discussion forum or the inquisition ? Surely we all have a right to choose what we post & whether we post.

You have such a short memory sometimes Discodog, ya never asked a poster to answer a question?

Re the letter to the TD's it would go straight to their spam box, perhaps you should try as you say you often write letters.

kildare.17hmr

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how would you react if kildare trapped your cat - on his property - and gave it to the Council for disposal?

i Wouldnt have to give it to anyone

star-pants

Just to remind people - back seat moderating is NOT tolerated. Nor is bullying.

This thread has become ridiculous, nitpicking like children.

Have some cop on please.

DBB

The problem is that, according to the research, most damage is done by birds. So even if you eliminate the cats you are still likely to end up with damaged bales.

Above quote by Discodog, post #152

It is correct that, regarding damage by animals, birds cause most damage to bales, and I do believe that Bizzum, the person you are addressing the above to, has already posted that as he stores his bales in the yard near the house, birds are not a problem.
However, it seems that research also suggests that cats are responsible for a significant amount of damage to silage bales: allow me to quote the research. I think if we're going to keep stating that "research suggests..." we should try to furnish links to that research, just so we know it's not makey-uppy research.



GRASS
November 17th 2001

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+1]Bird damage to silage bales:
Irelands newest bird-agriculture conflict![/SIZE][/FONT]

...
A national survey was undertaken by Teagasc researchers to establish the scale of the problem. Three hundred silage bale collections were surveyed along six different routes traversing 20 counties, to give a representative sample of farming systems and geographical locations throughout Ireland. Birds were found to be the animal species most responsible for damage to the plastic film surrounding the bales, with damage found on 63% of the bale collections during storage. Birds were also found to have damaged the bales in the field just after wrapping in 53% of the collections surveyed. Domestic cats were the animals found to be the next most important cause of damage, responsible for damaging 29% of the collections, mostly in farmyards. The incidence of observed damage caused to baled silage by rats (0.003% of bales), dogs (0.007% of bales) and farm livestock (0.015% of bales) was less than for birds and cats

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/2001/1215/grass/features.html

But evidence does suggest that Cats are trying to get in to kill the mice/rats that are already in there causing damage

Above quote by Discodog, post #152

What evidence? What mice/rats causing damage? Can you please supply links to this evidence (from peer-reviewed articles please)? It's just that in another post (#87), you surmised that it may be that cats may go looking for rodents in the bales... has the fact that you've surmised it once suddenly transformed it into evidence, or can you find something to back it up?
It's just that, as you can see from the above article, rats cause a miniscule amount of damage to bales. In addition, you don't tend to see many rodents in amongst wrapped bales... the odd one perhaps, but that's all. So your assertion that "evidence suggests" that cats are trying to get into the supposed rodents in the bales doesn't really stack up to the real evidence.
:rolleyes:

I want to ask the cat-owners who have stated that they don't mind their cats out roaming free causing damage and being in potential danger, once again because they still have not answered:

1. What would you do if a neighbour complained that your cat was causing damage to their property?

2. How would you feel if you found out your cat had been knocked down, ripped apart by stray dogs, strangled in a snare, been put in a wheelie bin by a passer-by, had a banger shoved up it's butt by kids at Halloween, been thrown on a bonfire, been used for dog baiting?
Are you okay with that?

3. This one interests me most, as it has been resolutely ignored by most: to address that cats like being outside to hunt etc.. what's the problem with keeping your cat in your garden to do these things? Why not build a run for the cat?

4. Who should compensate the farmer, or person in a housing estate, or anyone who suffers damage caused by your free-roaming cat?

I don't want to hear a word about this being aimed at cats. This is aimed 100% at owners who don't take responsibility for their pets.
And once again, to those of you who do go to the trouble to protect your pets, hats off to you:)

Mo60

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

i Wouldnt have to give it to anyone

If thats the case why did you start the thread?

kylith

Discodog wrote: »

Is this a discussion forum or the inquisition ? Surely we all have a right to choose what we post & whether we post.

Of course nobody can be forced to reply to a question but, in my opinion, refusal to answer a question can be inferred as a tacit acknowledgement that they recognise that their answer would be largely frowned upon.

You (using the general 'you', not you specifically) are a Homo Sapien, so you have the ability to form answers to hypothetical questions. Your house wouldn't have to be on fire before you could formulate an answer to the question "If your house was on fire would you ring the fire brigade?", and you don't have to be in the situation to be able to formulate an anwser to the question "If your neighbour asked you to keep your cat out of their garden, would you take steps to do so?"

kildare.17hmr

Mo60 wrote: »

If thats the case why did you start the thread?

the title is self explanatory i asked peoples thoughts on it. it has not come to the stage yet where iv done anything but its getting close.

Cherry Blossom

Mo60 wrote: »

Is trolling when someone disagrees with your post or opinion. You took the thread off topic by bringing horses into the discussion.

I posted to show my past experience with neighbours. Until it happens how can I state how I would deal with a complaint. As a previous poster has said it would depend on the situation.

No, trolling is posting on a thread with the sole intention of provoking other posters while adding nothing of any value to the thread (imo). You chose to quote what I said completely out of context while completely ignoring all the parts of the post that are relevant to the topic. I suggest if you wish to continue this conversation you do so via PM.

Mo60

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

No, trolling is posting on a thread with the sole intention of provoking other posters while adding nothing of any value to the thread (imo). You chose to quote what I said completely out of context while completely ignoring all the parts of the post that are relevant to the topic. I suggest if you wish to continue this conversation you do so via PM.

Sorry I did not know that I had started a conversation, so obviously would not want to continue.

We are all entitled to our opinions, even though you might not agree with them.

Mountainsandh

I let my cat roam free, I have no problems with cats roaming free. I take the chances that go with him going outside, except I don't like having to facture in hunters taking a shot at him.

I live in a remote area and my cat doesn't annoy anyone around, farmers included. In fact they keep cats themselves to keep mice levels down. Maybe their cats are trained to not have a go at their bales ?


I hate walking by people's/sometimes farmers' yards and the dogs running at me, barking and threatening, or driving by and the dogs running at the car. Had a mad old dog trying to bite the bonnet of the car once when I slowed down too much. (I didn't claim for the scratch, silly me) In fact there are spots I don't ever go walking to with my kids for fear of the dogs displaying agressive behaviour (on the road, not the people's property).
But I don't go round offering other neighbours (who also have young kids) to shoot the dogs in question.

I stepped in dog poo numerous times in my life, and my kids too, and sometimes their hands came dangerously close to it too when they fell in the street/park. I'm annoyed at the dog owners then, but I'm not going to kill any dogs, not even to "relieve" residents of that street of this problem.

I have met many stray dogs in my life, in town, and in the country, some scary, some peed on my car wheels (the awful cheek of them), not malnourished stray dogs, dogs that had obviously taken a stroll from home since they weren't tied in or locked in. It's not at all unusual in my neck of the woods, plenty of doggies taking a stroll out of their owners' properties. Actually some dogs also had a go at my bins (before they're collected), not funny picking everything up after they've been.
I haven't ever considered killing any of them.

ferretone

Hats off yerself, to Ms DBB, for all of the excellent points she has made, especially nos 2 and 3 for you who consider yourselves cat lovers.

And I would like to make another, for all of you who claim "you can't keep a cat in." It boggles my mind that many of you are undoubtedly successful parents, and yet claim this. Can you not say "no" when your child wants something that is not in his best interest? I have no doubt that you can. (Addressing this only to those who are "successful" parents obviously :pac: ) Well how is that different from telling a young cat who is howling to go and roam free that that's just not going to happen?

I can't feasibly fence in a cat-run for my 2 cats to access as of this time, and yet they are living fulfilled lives in our house. Ok, one was an ex-feral rescue we got at 1 year old from a huge colony in Dun Laoghaire, knows just what side her bread's buttered on, and has no wish to see the outside world ever again

But the other was a tiny kitten I found inside my car bonnet just under a year ago, and is still staring out the windows and angling to get outside when she can. But this is the area where it is a little like being a parent. As in you take charge, make the decisions, because you know best, not the cat. And she is a happy little cat, has a great time playing with us and our Dobie, and running up and down the house. She's not stressed or unhealthy, she just wants something right now which we know is not in her best interest.

And guess what else? We know she will grow out of that as she grows older and more and more used to her life. Have seen it time and again with the indoor cats of friends. And our cats will live both happy and safe lives, posing a threat to nobody else's peace of mind or property.

People who say you can't keep a cat inside are just weak and unpersistent, and possibly don't want to bother putting in the time themselves to keep their cats stimulated and happy. That's a key part of what we're talking about with responsible pet-ownership. If people who don't have time for a pet would just not get one, that would be the most responsible thing they could do, in my opinion, be that not getting a dog, a cat, rabbit, a ferret, a turtle, whatever, the world would be a much better place. Perhaps they could get a couple goldfish, though even those do require a minimum of care.

Not meaning to be combative or anything, but I really feel we need to take much greater responsibility for our pets.

ETA: Mountainsandh, you cross-posted while I was still posting, and I will say I have no issue with any of your points. I live in a rural area, but my 1.5 acre garden has a long road-frontage, and most of that on the straightest section of road for miles, so that is the main reason, although not the only one, why I feel my cats are best off indoors.

And I totally concur with your points about the farmers' dogs. I have long been unhappy with their perceived right to allow their dogs to "guard" the road in front of their properties. My dog gets long, supervised walks every day, but any time we're not with her, she is in the house, and the same applies with the neighbour who lives behind me.

Mine has excellent recall, so I can just leave her off the lead if a loose dog on the road threatens her, but the neighbour's ones just cannot be walked along our local lanes as a result, which is very inconvenient for her, and the 10-year-old boy up the road has told me that he is quite frightened walking around, and often feels the need to run.

Now if I was his mum I'd walk him to all the houses with dogs, get him introduced so he wouldn't fear them, as I know they are all harmless to people, but that is neither here nor there. What they do in allowing their dogs to roam and "guard" the roads is wrong, and again, also puts the dogs in danger. I reiterate: so many animal owners in this country do need a lesson in responsibility.

Mind you, it doesn't end with domestic pets around here. Last year I had to hunt up the owner of a cow who had gotten herself caught up in barbed wire! I rest my case.

TooManyDogs

@Mountainsandh, I've never once heard anyone on this forum say its ok for dogs to be out roaming, pooing everywhere and terrorising people, in fact they always suggest calling the warden to come and sort it out. That's the biggest difference between roaming cats and roaming dogs, there's no warden to call about cats being a nuisance, which is why people take matters into their own hands. You simply can't compare the two or use roaming dogs as justification for letting your cat roam, would it be reasonable for me to let my rabbits, dogs and sheep roam because my neighbours let their cats roam?

bad2dabone

Hi, my cat died last night from poisoning, I'm sure that he wouldn't have eaten rat poison as he only ate dried food or cooked meats. I think someone may have left poisoned cooked meats out as our neighbourhood has many cats. I've had to dig lots of cat poo up from my garden as 2 cats on the street use it as a toilet, even this week I was removing gross cat turds from my garden. I can see both sides of the arguement.
This morning though I'm completely devastated, can't stop crying. I find it hard to take that someone would kill an animal for something like that. And I feel guilty for letting him roam. Ultimately there are people who will kill animals for pooping in their garden. It's my fault for not protecting my cat from these types and keeping him indoors. If anyone has a roaming cat I'ld ask you to consider training the cat to be an indoor cat. Seeing my beautiful cat in agony as the poison destroyed his insides is something I wouldn't wish on anybody (except of course the f*cker who laid poison for him).

Ultimately I should have kept him indoors. I've failed him as an owner and the poor cat is the one who's paid the price.

serenacat

pros of letting cat out

-fresh air for cats
-potential for exercise and claw wearing down opportunites
-teaching kids how to treat cats


cons

-could get run over
-may go to the loo in neighbours garden

Overall I find it meaner to trap a cat in your house and never let it leave, its not fair on the cat. They should be provided with fresh air, trees to climb and sunlight. Mine only goes in the neighbours bushes, which surely is no big deal

Mountainsandh

TooManyDogs wrote: »

@Mountainsandh, I've never once heard anyone on this forum say its ok for dogs to be out roaming, pooing everywhere and terrorising people, in fact they always suggest calling the warden to come and sort it out. That's the biggest difference between roaming cats and roaming dogs, there's no warden to call about cats being a nuisance, which is why people take matters into their own hands. You simply can't compare the two or use roaming dogs as justification for letting your cat roam, would it be reasonable for me to let my rabbits, dogs and sheep roam because my neighbours let their cats roam?

Not my point.
My point is that it never once occured to me to kill any animals that were left outside and were an inconvenience to me.

I have never called a warden either.
I guess if it came to a point where I really wanted something done about it, the first thing I would do is knock at the owner's door.
Most cats that are re-offenders if it's pooping or slashing bales are probably offending on a precise perimeter, and it wouldn't be that hard to locate owners.

My point is that a hunter grabbing a gun to shoot cats or any pets outside using the excuse the pet is a nuisance is just looking for that, an excuse, to indulge in their past time. Arguing that it is for "vermin control" purposes is hypocritical. Bottom line is : person is looking for an excuse to go out shooting cats.

There are lots of things that other people do that I don't like, that are an inconvenience to me. And I do things that are an inconvenience to others sometimes. That's life. You make allowances for some things, and hopefully people will too, for some things you do. In my world you don't always have to "take matters in your own hands".