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RTE Radio 1 on 252!

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    #392
    Longwave Listener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longwave Listener


    When you consider all the am transmitters that are dropping like flies across europe you can't really blame RTE for deciding to close lw 252 on costs ground. afaik 4 longwave transmitters are due to shut next month, 3 in Germany and one in Denmark. I do think though that other aspects of RTE Radio also badly need to be reviewed. 2fm is simply no longer tenable if it still needs licence fee money.


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    #393
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    twinklerunner wrote: »
    I was listening to Today on BBC R4 in the car .. in Dublin city centre this morning - coming in loud and clear on 720 AM


    RTE Radio Two put in a strong signal up here when it was on 1278


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    #394
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    Longwave Listener wrote: »
    When you consider all the am transmitters that are dropping like flies across europe you can't really blame RTE for deciding to close lw 252 on costs ground. afaik 4 longwave transmitters are due to shut next month, 3 in Germany and one in Denmark. I do think though that other aspects of RTE Radio also badly need to be reviewed. 2fm is simply no longer tenable if it still needs licence fee money.

    They really need to roll out DAB throughout the country along with the second commercial multiplex.

    If that happened, listeners probably wouldn't mind too much.

    It's strange why the powers that be in the ROI aren't pushing DAB


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    #395
    Longwave Listener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longwave Listener


    Mr. Rabbit wrote: »
    They really need to roll out DAB throughout the country along with the second commercial multiplex.

    If that happened, listeners probably wouldn't mind too much.

    It's strange why the powers that be in the ROI aren't pushing DAB

    Nothing to do with the lack of dab, The only complaints really seem to be about irish oaps in the uk losing the service.


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    #396
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,258 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Mr. Rabbit wrote: »
    It's strange why the powers that be in the ROI aren't pushing DAB

    What's strange is why they rolled it out at all.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #397
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    Talking to a mate of mine; 252 coming in strong in Antwerp right now


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    #398
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    252 is broadcasting Sunday Spirit which is on RTE 1 Xtra/Extra


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    #399
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    former legend wrote: »
    That's all wonderful digression.

    The reality is, if the national broadcaster in one of the smallest countries in Europe asked a car manufacturer to change their designs to accommodate a tiny minority of that broadcaster's audience, they'd be laughed out of the building.

    And of course, bbc radio 4 on lw is on borrowed time too.

    I can't argue about the size of our country in Europe and you are probably right that many would laugh at the picture you painted - I am aware that it is indeed a very challenging task to overcome. However; this small country in Europe and the world has often punched well above it's weight on so many issues. I'm sure there were many other doubting thomas's around before the below achievements occurred too.

    We do it in so many ways such as:
    Our huge share of Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) especially from US firms and the envy of many larger countries in Europe,
    Our significant influence on Agriculture & Food policies in the EU through the decades despite our small size and population,
    Our shining examples in fighting Starvation & Poverty throughout the world, Irish men run two of the world's major airlines(i.e.) British Airways & Qantas
    Shannon Airport saw the 1st Duty Free Shopping anywhere in the world
    Ireland has won the Eurovision Song Contest on a record seven occasions

    I recall a journalist from the UK laughed at the idea that Ireland were attempting to stage the 1993 Eurovision Song Contest from a cow shed in Millstreet in Co. Cork. Afterwards, it was regarded a major success at the time and he underestimated the technical ability of RTÉ & it's partners at the time.

    I suppose there are lots of examples of people laughing at various proposals because they may not always appear as financially viable or relevant at first but upon further research and study they may in fact make sense in other important ways.


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    #400
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    Mr. Rabbit wrote: »
    They really need to roll out DAB throughout the country along with the second commercial multiplex.

    If that happened, listeners probably wouldn't mind too much.

    It's strange why the powers that be in the ROI aren't pushing DAB

    As far as I am aware DAB has not been deemed a major success in the UK which had developed it further than is the current situation here in Republic of Ireland. Perhaps the relevant authorities are re-thinking the whole strategy on DAB in Ireland given the experience in the UK?


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    #401
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    Longwave Listener wrote: »
    Nothing to do with the lack of dab, The only complaints really seem to be about irish oaps in the uk losing the service.

    I suspect that Irish Senior Citizens who currently reside in the UK are a loud campaign alright because it matters a lot to their daily lives. That said, there are many other interest groups too who would be unhappy if it switches off on January 19th

    Farmers
    Shipping / Fishermen at sea
    Commercial Drivers or Commuters in certain parts of rural Ireland where their FM signals are either unreliable or unavailable
    Senior Citizens / OAPs especially outside the Republic of Ireland.

    At the end of the day, I would imagine that if RTÉ was to give it a further reprieve it may be partly due to incorrect or inaccurate research data used previously to justify the original decision to close down LW252. I also suspect that any future reprieve would be as a result of several interest groups not satisfied with the decision rather than just one alone.


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    #402
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    AwaitYourReply wrote: »
    I can't argue about the size of our country in Europe and you are probably right that many would laugh at the picture you painted - I am aware that it is indeed a very challenging task to overcome. However; this small country in Europe and the world has often punched well above it's weight on so many issues. I'm sure there were many other doubting thomas's around before the below achievements occurred too.

    We do it in so many ways such as:
    Our huge share of Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) especially from US firms and the envy of many larger countries in Europe,
    Our significant influence on Agriculture & Food policies in the EU through the decades despite our small size and population,
    Our shining examples in fighting Starvation & Poverty throughout the world, Irish men run two of the world's major airlines(i.e.) British Airways & Qantas
    Shannon Airport saw the 1st Duty Free Shopping anywhere in the world
    Ireland has won the Eurovision Song Contest on a record seven occasions

    I recall a journalist from the UK laughed at the idea that Ireland were attempting to stage the 1993 Eurovision Song Contest from a cow shed in Millstreet in Co. Cork. Afterwards, it was regarded a major success at the time and he underestimated the technical ability of RTÉ & it's partners at the time.

    I suppose there are lots of examples of people laughing at various proposals because they may not always appear as financially viable or relevant at first but upon further research and study they may in fact make sense in other important ways.

    But none of that in any way relates to long wave, or makes it any more likely that a car manufacturer is going to reverse the inevitable step of removing dead technology from its products.

    I think it just shows how weak the underlying arguments are, frankly.


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    #403
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    AwaitYourReply wrote: »
    As far as I am aware DAB has not been deemed a major success in the UK which had developed it further than is the current situation here in Republic of Ireland. Perhaps the relevant authorities are re-thinking the whole strategy on DAB in Ireland given the experience in the UK?
    trials here are continuing as far as i know. in the UK, they use original dab which is based on the mp2 format. mp2 is good at bitrates of 192k and above, maybe even 128k at a stretch. but under that, dab is of bad quality. some stations broadcast as low as 64k mono dab, so you can imagine how that sounds. however dab+ based on the AAC format is of much better quality even at 64k. if it has parametric sterio as an option it will sound good even at 48k and below, but 64k and above with 48k parametric sterio for talk stations is what should be aimed for.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #404
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    former legend wrote: »
    But none of that in any way relates to long wave, or makes it any more likely that a car manufacturer is going to reverse the inevitable step of removing dead technology from its products.

    I think it just shows how weak the underlying arguments are, frankly.
    it doesn't. the reasons for retention of this service are genuine and frankly very good reasons. RTE will either decide to keep it on or not, but the arguments aren't weak but very strong

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #405
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    end of the road wrote: »
    it doesn't. the reasons for retention of this service are genuine and frankly very good reasons. RTE will either decide to keep it on or not, but the arguments aren't weak but very strong

    But you'd agree that none of the above points are in any way relevant to the installation of long wave radios in cars? That an Irish guy being in charge of Qantas is unlikely to sway motor industry executives?


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    #406
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    I'm pretty sure it's on my Uncles 13 Avensis. So it's certainly still there on cars. Most old DIN units still have it.


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    #407
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    former legend wrote: »
    But you'd agree that none of the above points are in any way relevant to the installation of long wave radios in cars? That an Irish guy being in charge of Qantas is unlikely to sway motor industry executives?
    yes. but thats not what he meant. he meant that us being a small country doesn't mean we can't get things done

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #408
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    end of the road wrote: »
    yes. but thats not what he meant. he meant that us being a small country doesn't mean we can't get things done

    I don't doubt it, but not in this case. It's just not realistic.


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    #409
    Longwave Listener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longwave Listener


    I understand RTE will be making an An Announcement in the next 3-5 days. My guess is the " their only lifeline" crowd won't be happy.


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    #410
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    former legend wrote: »
    But none of that in any way relates to long wave, or makes it any more likely that a car manufacturer is going to reverse the inevitable step of removing dead technology from its products.

    I think it just shows how weak the underlying arguments are, frankly.

    Well longwave was as much a dead technology 15+years ago but this did NOT stop RTÉ from switching it's former Medium Wave listeners over to Long Wave in the Noughties. They probably did so just after the BBC lost in their attempt to close down it's BBC Radio 4 Longwave service after widespread protests at that time.

    I think I managed to outline some very powerful examples in my previous post of the "can do" approach in a small country like Ireland rather than just accept the inevitable without putting up a strong defence. Some people have the attitude - Oh, we should never ever try that because we are up against an uphill struggle and the odds are stacked up against us on this one. This is a lazy approach. You may not get everything you want but you may well find that you can gain some concessions or explore some room for manoeuvre through constructive negotiations.

    I definitely know who NOT to hire if I wanted someone to conduct a challenging lobbying campaign on an issue like this one - some people expect things to always run smoothly based on the perceived majority but life would be dull and boring if we all just followed on like a flock of sheep instead of standing up for those less able or at a disadvantage by changes introduced without proper regard for older listeners unlikely to be able to easily adapt as younger generations. For this category of older people and the type of car they tend to buy, perhaps LW would be a very useful marketing/sales tool that might sway sales where the older clients are concerned.

    Oh and bye the way, if my argument was so weak as you claim, I am quite sure the powers that be in RTÉ would NOT have extended the shut down date by an additional 3 months. They were clearly inundated with complaints from various quarters and requests for detailed explanations behind this decision after the initial short advance notice was announced to the public.


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    #411
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    Hang on. Long Wave as much a dead technology when RTE started the service in 2002 as it is now?

    In 2002, a lot more radios were capable of receiving lw. Web streaming was almost unheard of and smartphones didn't exist. RTE had the equipment already in place so there was no capital investment.

    That's changed now. Whatever place LW may have had in the market then is long gone. A handful of pensioners in the UK is just not enough to keep it viable. It would be nice to retain it but whether it's now, next year or the year after, it's doomed.

    RTE delayed the shut down for PR reasons, not because LW is suddenly all the rage again.


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    #412
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    Fact. I cannot stream reliably in my car
    Fact. I cannot get RTE FM over the border in the car
    Fact. I cannot get RTE FM in England.
    Fact. I do not have an internet connect everywhere.
    Fact. Rural Mayo, near Ballycroy, 252 was about the only thing I could get out there when I lived there.

    I'm not the only one like this.


    What's wrong with LW? Nothing. Leave it be. It's not costing a lot to run.


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    #413
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    former legend wrote: »
    Hang on. Long Wave as much a dead technology when RTE started the service in 2002 as it is now?

    In 2002, a lot more radios were capable of receiving lw. Web streaming was almost unheard of and smartphones didn't exist. RTE had the equipment already in place so there was no capital investment.

    That's changed now. Whatever place LW may have had in the market then is long gone. A handful of pensioners in the UK is just not enough to keep it viable. It would be nice to retain it but whether it's now, next year or the year after, it's doomed.

    RTE delayed the shut down for PR reasons, not because LW is suddenly all the rage again.
    yeah, they delayed it due to the amount of complaints. obviously people are listening to it

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #414
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    former legend wrote: »
    Hang on. Long Wave as much a dead technology when RTE started the service in 2002 as it is now?

    In 2002, a lot more radios were capable of receiving lw. Web streaming was almost unheard of and smartphones didn't exist. RTE had the equipment already in place so there was no capital investment.

    That's changed now. Whatever place LW may have had in the market then is long gone. A handful of pensioners in the UK is just not enough to keep it viable. It would be nice to retain it but whether it's now, next year or the year after, it's doomed.

    RTE delayed the shut down for PR reasons, not because LW is suddenly all the rage again.

    RTÉ lose money on so many fronts through some very short-sighted policies, overpaid salaries and some low quality programming.
    LW was NOT in vogue for decades as I have said numerous times - 2002 was long past the hey day of LW but RTÉ still pushed their MW listeners to switch over to LW when RTÉ Radio 1 MW broadcasts finally closed down in 2008.

    Sure we all know it was a political decision not a "PR reason". It's not about being nice to retain it for the sake of it either - it's about how they failed to adequately assist a key audience demographic in making the change to other mainly digital platforms that Senior Citizens have little or no knowledge of because they are of a certain generation which you just cannot get your head around because you think they just should do it anyway on economic grounds. As usual, RTÉ made a mess of it themselves through poor planning and a complete lack of consideration.

    The number of listeners may not be massive in the overall context but this will not enhance the reputation and image of RTÉ in certain quarters. You should never take goodwill for granted in business.


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    #415
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah, they delayed it due to the amount of complaints. obviously people are listening to it

    Here here ...excellent point of observation.


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    #416
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    end of the road wrote: »
    it doesn't. the reasons for retention of this service are genuine and frankly very good reasons. RTE will either decide to keep it on or not, but the arguments aren't weak but very strong

    Another unfounded assertion that your previous, also unfounded, assertions are "very strong"


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    #417
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah, they delayed it due to the amount of complaints. obviously people are listening to it

    Your basic premise is that RTE want to shut down a service that is very popular and brings them lots of listeners.

    Does that sound logical?

    The number of people listening via LW is miniscule.

    We might as well be debating whether or not the sun should come up tomorrow - the death of LW is inevitable and that's not just restricted to Ireland, it's happening all across Europe. You may as well be picketing outside HMW complaining that they don't sell 78s any more.


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    #418
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    AwaitYourReply wrote: »
    Here here ...excellent point of observation.

    Excellent point of repeating what YOU keep saying.
    They've delayed the switch off to allow the few more time to adjust.


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    #419
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    former legend wrote: »
    Your basic premise is that RTE want to shut down a service that is very popular and brings them lots of listeners.

    Does that sound logical?

    The number of people listening via LW is miniscule.

    We might as well be debating whether or not the sun should come up tomorrow - the death of LW is inevitable and that's not just restricted to Ireland, it's happening all across Europe. You may as well be picketing outside HMW complaining that they don't sell 78s any more.
    78s have nothing to do with this discussion. the campain to keep this vitally and strategically important service on air for as long as possible is a good campain and has many good reasons behind it. all you have is "economic reasons" . sometimes other more important things trump economics and this is a case which has such reasons that do as such.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #420
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Excellent point of repeating what YOU keep saying.
    They've delayed the switch off to allow the few more time to adjust.
    no, they have done what they should have in the first place. given those listening the large amount of time to migrate. in that time any campain to keep 252 on air should continue, if it works great if it doesn't well

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #421
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    I moved to the UK nearly 6 years ago now. I was amazed and delighted to discover a couple of years after I moved that I could receive Radio 1 on LW in the car and quickly got into the habit of listening to it in the car a couple of times a week.

    At the moment it takes very little effort for me to listen. If/when RTE switches off the LW service I very much doubt that I will listen to it again. I don't really know whether that should matter to RTE. I can't make any economic argument for retaining it. Perhaps, a way of maintaining links but I have The newspapers (and boards) for that.

    I'll miss it though.


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