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**Why you should insist on RGI. when working with gas**

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    JohnnieK wrote: »
    Every house is different, it's not a washing machine there buying. Some houses are very costly to zone for the grant and others are not. People should ask for a broken down quote and not just an email with the price on it.

    True, and every book is different, but I can give a rough estimate of the work editing a book of a certain length will be, within the border of a low figure for a skilfully written book by an experienced writer and a book full of grammatical mistakes and plot holes but with fantastic possibilities by an inexperienced, semi-educated writer.

    I've just had a job costed by three different plumbers, at €1,200, €2,000 and €2,200. Then one of them turns up and has measured the space wrong, and says because of this the boiler will be €400 dearer…


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Nowadays everybody knows the price of everything & the value of nothing!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    I've just had a job costed by three different plumbers, at €1,200, €2,000 and €2,200. Then one of them turns up and has measured the space wrong, and says because of this the boiler will be €400 dearer…

    The €1,200 one is a "hang it on the wall, if the light comes on, it's a good 'un". The other two are closer to the mark. Most likely both Powerflushing, new digital timeclock, new suitable room stat & a decent quality boiler.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    True, and every book is different, but I can give a rough estimate of the work editing a book of a certain length will be, within the border of a low figure for a skilfully written book by an experienced writer and a book full of grammatical mistakes and plot holes but with fantastic possibilities by an inexperienced, semi-educated writer.

    I've just had a job costed by three different plumbers, at €1,200, €2,000 and €2,200. Then one of them turns up and has measured the space wrong, and says because of this the boiler will be €400 dearer…
    It's not your fault he measured the space wrong. Tell him to go sing for it.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    True, and every book is different, but I can give a rough estimate of the work editing a book of a certain length will be, within the border of a low figure for a skilfully written book by an experienced writer and a book full of grammatical mistakes and plot holes but with fantastic possibilities by an inexperienced, semi-educated writer.

    I've just had a job costed by three different plumbers, at €1,200, €2,000 and €2,200. Then one of them turns up and has measured the space wrong, and says because of this the boiler will be €400 dearer…

    You sound like professional which is a beautiful thing, now imagine if your profession was like my own profession were others were offering to do exactly the same job as yourself but had minimal training, little care for customer service and fluctuating prices.

    If the above was the case how would you explain to a new customer who has only experienced the less professional the disparity between you and the others who seem to be offering the same service but with different confusing quotes.

    There are a lot of good RGI's out there, unfortunately you haven't met one and I don't feel the ones you have met would be on this forum assisting others.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    gary71 wrote: »
    You sound like professional which is a beautiful thing, now imagine if your profession was like my own profession were others were offering to do exactly the same job as yourself but had minimal training, little care for customer service and fluctuating prices.

    I don't have to imagine that, it's happening in writing and editing more than anywhere else.
    If the above was the case how would you explain to a new customer who has only experienced the less professional the disparity between you and the others who seem to be offering the same service but with different confusing quotes.

    There are a lot of good RGI's out there, unfortunately you haven't met one and I don't feel the ones you have met would be on this forum assisting others.

    Sensible point. But gary71, this is why it would help if there were some guidelines on a sensible price for a job like this. In plumbing, it's very easy to blind the customer with science; and the customer is likely to be frightened and malleable because of the danger of gas.

    I have also thought for many years (and this is not a personal point against anyone here - I don't know you, and you are probably exceptions to this) that the general competence of Irish electricians, carpenters, plasterers, builders and plumbers is often quite low. I'm not saying this to be annoying or argumentative, but as a simple observation; people very often seem to be winging it. I couldn't count the number of times a man has come into my house - a professional doing the job he's trained for, and supposedly has the specialised equipment for, and asked "You wouldn't have a screwdriver, would you?"

    At this stage I'm thinking of getting two further quotes, one from a Lithuanian (who comes with several recommendations, though these are all from *recent* work, which makes me cautious), and one from a Frenchman (who comes with a single recommendation, but from someone he's worked for several times).

    Edit: in fact, it would be an excellent before-and-after service for the Gas Company to offer: come out before the job and say "It should cost roughly X", and come out after the job and inspect it for safety and competence.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't have to imagine that, it's happening in writing and editing more than anywhere else.



    Sensible point. But gary71, this is why it would help if there were some guidelines on a sensible price for a job like this. In plumbing, it's very easy to blind the customer with science; and the customer is likely to be frightened and malleable because of the danger of gas.

    I have also thought for many years (and this is not a personal point against anyone here - I don't know you, and you are probably exceptions to this) that the general competence of Irish electricians, carpenters, plasterers, builders and plumbers is often quite low. I'm not saying this to be annoying or argumentative, but as a simple observation; people very often seem to be winging it. I couldn't count the number of times a man has come into my house - a professional doing the job he's trained for, and supposedly has the specialised equipment for, and asked "You wouldn't have a screwdriver, would you?"

    At this stage I'm thinking of getting two further quotes, one from a Lithuanian (who comes with several recommendations, though these are all from *recent* work, which makes me cautious), and one from a Frenchman (who comes with a single recommendation, but from someone he's worked for several times).

    Edit: in fact, it would be an excellent before-and-after service for the Gas Company to offer: come out before the job and say "It should cost roughly X", and come out after the job and inspect it for safety and competence.

    As a RGI who comes from outside Ireland and one who gets to see a lot of other RGI's work I can tell you there are tradesmen as good and professional as any.

    The problems I find is as with other trades there has been no real restriction(till recently) on those entering the trade and no policing to help remove the unskilled, unsafe or undesirable to the detriment of the competent and decent RGI's.

    Good tradesmen do suffer from the impact of bad tradesmen and I for one detest the bad ones. Someone employing a RGI should have confidence in the RGII selection process that allowes a RGI to work but using my favourite quote from last year, when you employ a RGI you don't know if you getting horse or beef.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 anner25


    A big problem here is lack of a proper apprenticeship scheme,the RGII have a Trainee Membership does anyone know any RGII trainee's? I certainly don't. GID then registration to RGII full membership where does this trainee lark come in ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    anner25 wrote: »
    A big problem here is lack of a proper apprenticeship scheme,the RGII have a Trainee Membership does anyone know any RGII trainee's? I certainly don't. GID then registration to RGII full membership where does this trainee lark come in ?

    Trainee was there from the beginning for people working in the industry already. They had trainee status until they sat the GID.

    If an Rgi/plumber has an apprentice he can still register the apprentice as a trainee.

    There is no separate gas fitting apprenticeship it's all part of the plumbing apprenticeship since the early nineties or late eighties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 anner25


    Understood but when I finished my apprenticeship and GID I found it very difficult to get anyone willing to offer any hands on training in the servicing and repair area.The GID and Plumbing apprenticeship barely covers anything regarding this,I know there is a GIFF fault finding course but really nothing beats that hands on experience. I think that's why were seeing a lot of RGIIs out there screwing up because the more experienced guys don't seem to be willing to pass on their knowledge.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So it's my fault? Nothing to do with the State sponsored silliness that's allowed absolutely anybody in to my industry irrespective of their suitability for the role.

    My ability to earn as a tradesman has been massively impacted on by the unskilled doing my job, how will it help me to train anybody?

    Do you think that if RGI's were drawn from plumbing and associated trades in the first place the transfer of knowledge would of been more likely to have accured?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    anner25 wrote: »
    I think that's why were seeing a lot of RGIIs out there screwing up because the more experienced guys don't seem to be willing to pass on their knowledge.

    When i wanted to learn the Gas trade i was lucky the older more experienced guys mentored me along but thats because i did a three year apprentiship with the gas industry and not a 10 day refresher course, i often ask myself would i really wish to mentor some of the clowns who now carry the same RGI label as myself, no! if the powers that be have given them the ability to kill people then so be it, but my neck wont be on the line.
    If fresh RGI's are really honest with themselves and feel lacking in competence then they should be big enough to hold their hands up to RGII and ask for further training, i'm sure that if there was honestly then numbers would dictate extra training would have to be made available.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 anner25


    I'm just speaking from experience the fact is some of these so called experienced guys are taking no blame here when some of them are a joke.Most of the crowds I've worked for over the years put no emphasis on proper flushing techniques and didn't even follow basic manufacturers guidelines.I was at a boiler recently that had no perm live and this was installed by an ex BG very well respected guy I approached him and he he lost it,the same guy doesn't even have a multi meter he uses a phase tester,nobody in the firm puts it up to him cause of his back round. I've learned everything I know from reading and going to as many manufacturers training days as I could not from instruction and I will be first to admit I've a lot to learn but guys like me haven't a chance because A-were not ex BG and B-were young and ''just done 10 day courses" who's gonna look after things when you guys retire ?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    anner25 wrote: »
    I'm just speaking from experience the fact is some of these so called experienced guys are taking no blame here when some of them are a joke.Most of the crowds I've worked for over the years put no emphasis on proper flushing techniques and didn't even follow basic manufacturers guidelines.I was at a boiler recently that had no perm live and this was installed by an ex BG very well respected guy I approached him and he he lost it,the same guy doesn't even have a multi meter he uses a phase tester,nobody in the firm puts it up to him cause of his back round. I've learned everything I know from reading and going to as many manufacturers training days as I could not from instruction and I will be first to admit I've a lot to learn but guys like me haven't a chance because A-were not ex BG and B-were young and ''just done 10 day courses" who's gonna look after things when you guys retire ?


    All service and maintenance RGIs I'v met are self taught, gas engineering is not a recognised trade here, you're better off going at it the way you are.

    What you have rightly noticed is spoofers and chancers are allowed to flourish in the gas industry for some reason:confused:, i'v been round a long time and met a lot of RGIs at different levels, many that I have met with loud blustery voices with little cop on end up in important positions.

    The regs are the regs it's not rocket science so how people with little regard for what the books really say are allowed to put their own spin on things confusing the issue is beyond me:mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    Just keep doing what your doing and stick to your guns. The spoofers will be found out in the end.

    There is only so much someone can show you the rest is self thought.
    I have a couple of numbers in my phone of fellas that know more than me and i have no shame in calling on them when needs be.

    I only ran a permanent live to a one year old Viessmann today that was put in on a refurb. Wired by a sparks too.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    JohnnieK wrote: »
    Just keep doing what your doing and stick to your guns. The spoofers will be found out in the end.

    There is only so much someone can show you the rest is self thought.
    I have a couple of numbers in my phone of fellas that know more than me and i have no shame in calling on them when needs be.

    I only ran a permanent live to a one year old Viessmann today that was put in on a refurb. Wired by a sparks too.

    The message I'm trying to get over to sparks is a PCB is for life not just for Christmas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Egass13


    This is why . Wasn't until I asked him what happens when his 9 month old baby starts walking and decides to open the valve did the man actually realise what my problem was with his DIY disconnection . Not pictured is the piece of masking tap used as the blank cap, oh or the open fire which took the place of the gas fire , literally 3 feet away. It was like this for nearly two years .


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 dysfunctional


    Hear, Hear!! i'm OFTEC reg. and i wouldn't dream of touching Gas....


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,931 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    RGI are trained in gas safety and it is the law that no one else works with the gas line. RGI must be insured every year. That is the only reason you need to answer the question at the start of this thread.

    Anyone getting RGI should be picky what one they choose. Some RGI are not plumbers. Some are electricians. This is fine for the gas boiler service and repair but some electricians have been putting in whole heating systems and some of these are a disaster. Not trying to slag off anyone I'm just asking homeowners to ask a few questions first and always ask to see their insurance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    Not trying to slag off anyone I'm just asking homeowners to ask a few questions first and always ask to see their insurance.

    As a condition of your annual membership to RGII, all RGI's must provide a copy of their current insurance to RGII, so therefore if the RGI is currently listed with RGII, they must have insurance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,931 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    shane 007 wrote: »
    As a condition of your annual membership to RGII, all RGI's must provide a copy of their current insurance to RGII, so therefore if the RGI is currently listed with RGII, they must have insurance.

    Shane I said that RGI Have to be insured. we all should be insured. I was talking about homeowners letting any tradesmen in without insurance. I think RECI have to be insured too though someone might correct me on that.
    What I was saying was that some RGI are not plumbers & yet they would try fit a solid ffuel back boiler.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    I think RECI have to be insured too though someone might correct me on that.

    One cannot register with RECI unless you have insurance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    shane 007 wrote: »
    As a condition of your annual membership to RGII, all RGI's must provide a copy of their current insurance to RGII, so therefore if the RGI is currently listed with RGII, they must have insurance.

    The recent prosecution in Louth, the person was posing as an RGI.

    Clearly not everyone goes to the RGI website.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,931 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    One cannot register with RECI unless you have insurance.

    Thank you Sir Arthur. I will take the "think" out of that statement in future. So I can now say with certainty that RGI & RECI Have to be insured. Other tradesmen like myself should be fully insured & homeowners should ask us to show proof of insurance. I mean anyone could drill into a water pipe and cause damage. If they have no insurance then the homeowner has to foot the bill.

    The cheapest quote is not necessarily the best quote. Homeowners ask what corners are being cut to make this the cheapest quote.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thank you Sir Arthur. I will take the "think" out of that statement in future. So I can now say with certainty that RGI & RECI Have to be insured. Other tradesmen like myself should be fully insured & homeowners should ask us to show proof of insurance. I mean anyone could drill into a water pipe and cause damage. If they have no insurance then the homeowner has to foot the bill.

    The cheapest quote is not necessarily the best quote. Homeowners ask what corners are being cut to make this the cheapest quote.

    As a apprentice I once watched a fitter(more water diviner than gas fitter) find a water pipe buried in the kitchen wall with the tip of his drill.

    What makes it memorable to me was as the fitter was holding back the flood with his hands and the little old lady of the house was shouting some choice words at him a bird flew in flapped around above us for a bit, had a dump then flew out.

    I always thought the bird just flew in to comment on the quality of the work that day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,931 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    gary71 wrote: »
    As a apprentice I once watched a fitter(more water diviner than gas fitter) find a water pipe buried in the kitchen wall with the tip of his drill.

    What makes it memorable to me was as the fitter was holding back the flood with his hands and the little old lady of the house was shouting some choice words at him a bird flew in flapped around above us for a bit, had a dump then flew out.

    I always thought the bird just flew in to comment on the quality of the work that day.

    Gary very good. You made me laugh!

    Even if he was good at his job this could have happened to him. It could happen to me on Tuesday on a job. Unfortunately some uninsured tradesmen would run away at this stage.

    Thanks for the laugh.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Gary very good. You made me laugh!

    Even if he was good at his job this could have happened to him. It could happen to me on Tuesday on a job. Unfortunately some uninsured tradesmen would run away at this stage.

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Your message is a good one, but welcome to the party.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65446567

    Nothing has changed in four years and it's still reliant on good luck and a bit of homework to get what you pay for and have it done right.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Recent topic items and references deleted due to concerns over the content.
    If anyone wishes to discuss this feel free to PM me but please to not reference on thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    Some of these figures dont add up.
    It say's 30000 boilers are fitted every year but manufactures sales figures don't support this.

    It also doesn't mention the APHCI fighting the RGI re-assessments that have started saying it's too expensive. It's too expensive for the committee members because they are larger contractors and have numerous RGI's working for them and they would have to pay for there employee's to be re-assessed.

    I for one agree with re-assessments for two reasons.

    1. The regulations change from time to time and it is good to keep a breast of things.
    2. There is re-assessments in most other counties that have a regulated gas industry.


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