**Why you should insist on RGI. when working with gas**

DGOBS

I am not missing it at all, your worried about the cowboy, but if they go to the trouble of reading through the thread, they will/should start to learn something.

sully123

i got an rgi guy to plumb gas into my oven.
1 month later i got the gas company to come out to investigate a smell of gas.
significant leak!

simple job and he made a balls of it.
he said a ring slipped!

JohnnieK

sully123 wrote: »

i got an rgi guy to plumb gas into my oven.
1 month later i got the gas company to come out to investigate a smell of gas.
significant leak!

simple job and he made a balls of it.
he said a ring slipped!

Fittings don't slip off on there own accord, especially after a month. What was the installation like? Did he use the correct fittings? Was someone pulling it in and out to clean?

sully123

no, wasn't touched. just a simple 310 fitting.
i have a young apprentice lad doing the rest of my plumbing. i might as well have got him to do it.

the certs dont make any odds if your not gonna take basic due care went doing a job.

DGOBS

They do, as he is accepting responsibility and liability for the job.

The apprentice cannot certify, and if working directly for you (not being overseen by his RGI boss) then the works are illegal and he is liable to prosecution and your house insurance wold possibly be void if the works cause an accident

skyplumber

I am a plumber and many customers will rather risk their own safety than pay for a professional.

Billy Bunting

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2013/rnn-nw-paul-kay.htm

lilywhitebhoy

alright folks this is my very 1st post on boards.ie im not used to forums so please bear with me. Ive read this thread with great interest and i find it shocking the rgii are getting away with here ie driveby inspections etc i got my gas safe while living in the u.k and working for a council (we were a subcontractor) we had our own companies QC guy out once every week a council inspector at irregular intervals and gas safe themselves done random inspections so a previous poster was right the uk have it set up to weed out the guys that just cant cut it but it didnt stop the cowboys because get this..... as a gas safe installer if i messed up and god forbid i have to go to court then they will throw the book at me but if any tom dick or harry with a u-gauge and adjustable spanner messes up then its a hell of a lot harder to prosecute. so the uk arent perfect but a million miles ahead of what ive seen here so far

lilywhitebhoy

and just to add i found that the inspectors where ther to help us rather than persecute us as if they found something wrong they'd tell us, show us how to remedy it and maybe give us a better way of doing things

lilywhitebhoy

lilywhitebhoy wrote: »

and just to add i found that the inspectors where ther to help us rather than persecute us as if they found something wrong they'd tell us, show us how to remedy it and maybe give us a better way of doing things

Welcome.

Like here Gassafe have their own problems, as most Gassafe are ex british gas they tend to be good guys but you get the ones who think their more judge Judy than inspector also they went through a time where they threatened to remove Gassafe cards from engineers because of incorrect condense lines.

It's easyier for RGII to prosecute as its written in to law, in the UK they need more proof of naughtiness, there are very large fines handed out regularly for non registered work in the UK which is not done here.

Did you spot that your only required as a RGI to raise a notification of hazard for a hazard under IS813 and you do not have to isolate and if you come across a illegal installation you can leave the appliance on if your gut says "its all right" and if you do isolate its ok for a other RGI to uncap if he thinks your wrong.

The one thing I would have changed tomorrow is when there's a gas related death(s) or explosion we should know in detail the factors involved in the incident to help reduce the risk of a similar occurrence as happens in the Uk.

lilywhitebhoy

thanks for the welcome gary. in answer to your question i havent brushed up on the irish regs yet ive had a lot on with the new house here been hectic this last few months but i'll get round to it with interest. the guy i spoke to at bord gais networks when i done my mutual recognition swore blind that gassafe and rgii are effectivley 1 and the same which going by what ive found out speaking to people and readin this forum is not very accurate. i cant believe that another RGI can just come and uncap ur "opinion" basically. Surely thats up to RGII (being the regularatry body and all) that leaves the whole system up for abuse for example i walk into a house to service/repair a boiler i walk in see a gas fire theres soot up the wall gas pissing out the fitting, poc hanging like a big black cloud (slightly exageratted i know) i shut it down. the owners say its christmas we want a roaring fire so they fone joe bloggs from the yellow pages say they'll give him 200 quid to uncap it and he does.......... the industry needs heavy regulation in my opinion and as you say legal issues be brought up. in my opinion we can all learn and in my experience i learned everyday as, if i came up against an unfamiliar boiler or just general unfamiliar problem then the mobile came out everyday is a school day as they say. though just wish i could get a public liability qoute from SOMEBODY ffs its like pulling hens teeth

Dtp79

lilywhitebhoy wrote: »

thanks for the welcome gary. in answer to your question i havent brushed up on the irish regs yet ive had a lot on with the new house here been hectic this last few months but i'll get round to it with interest. the guy i spoke to at bord gais networks when i done my mutual recognition swore blind that gassafe and rgii are effectivley 1 and the same which going by what ive found out speaking to people and readin this forum is not very accurate. i cant believe that another RGI can just come and uncap ur "opinion" basically. Surely thats up to RGII (being the regularatry body and all) that leaves the whole system up for abuse for example i walk into a house to service/repair a boiler i walk in see a gas fire theres soot up the wall gas pissing out the fitting, poc hanging like a big black cloud (slightly exageratted i know) i shut it down. the owners say its christmas we want a roaring fire so they fone joe bloggs from the yellow pages say they'll give him 200 quid to uncap it and he does.......... the industry needs heavy regulation in my opinion and as you say legal issues be brought up. in my opinion we can all learn and in my experience i learned everyday as, if i came up against an unfamiliar boiler or just general unfamiliar problem then the mobile came out everyday is a school day as they say. though just wish i could get a public liability qoute from SOMEBODY ffs its like pulling hens teeth

Did u try Arachas for the insurance? Mine was 570 ish if I remember correctly

lilywhitebhoy

no havent even heard of them to be honest 570 seems alrite

Dtp79

lilywhitebhoy wrote: »

no havent even heard of them to be honest 570 seems alrite

Ye it's the best around as far as I can see

lilywhitebhoy

thanks for the heads up i cant even get a callback from some insurers. whats the limit i need? is it 5 mill like the uk? im asking because i tried to get 1 qoute online that gave me 2.6mill or 6 mill as an option?? btw thanks for the replys

lilywhitebhoy

just went to their site thanks i'll wait for their response

Dtp79

lilywhitebhoy wrote: »

just went to their site thanks i'll wait for their response

Don't mind the online site. Ring Monday morning. Nearly sure your lookin for the 6/13 mil figures. Just tell them what work you'll be doin nd they'll do the rest

lilywhitebhoy

dead on dtp thanks for the advice i will do that 6 mill it is so

lilywhitebhoy

lilywhitebhoy wrote: »

thanks for the welcome gary. in answer to your question i havent brushed up on the irish regs yet ive had a lot on with the new house here been hectic this last few months but i'll get round to it with interest. the guy i spoke to at bord gais networks when i done my mutual recognition swore blind that gassafe and rgii are effectivley 1 and the same which going by what ive found out speaking to people and readin this forum is not very accurate. i cant believe that another RGI can just come and uncap ur "opinion" basically. Surely thats up to RGII (being the regularatry body and all) that leaves the whole system up for abuse for example i walk into a house to service/repair a boiler i walk in see a gas fire theres soot up the wall gas pissing out the fitting, poc hanging like a big black cloud (slightly exageratted i know) i shut it down. the owners say its christmas we want a roaring fire so they fone joe bloggs from the yellow pages say they'll give him 200 quid to uncap it and he does.......... the industry needs heavy regulation in my opinion and as you say legal issues be brought up. in my opinion we can all learn and in my experience i learned everyday as, if i came up against an unfamiliar boiler or just general unfamiliar problem then the mobile came out everyday is a school day as they say. though just wish i could get a public liability qoute from SOMEBODY ffs its like pulling hens teeth

Mutual recognition is a waste of money(it was for me) as it only lasts as long as your ACS and you will then have to resit again.

The fundamental difference in working here and the UK is here you have gasmans discretion:eek: which is reliant on training and experience, so new entrants with a couple of weeks training are put in a position where mistakes can be made through no fault of their own that could end a life. In the UK you do what the books says and there is no room for second guessing your regs.

Coming from the Uk you will find the lack of interest (by some) in good working practise a bit of a problem, it's up to each individual RGI to determine their own working practise,there are some very very good RGI's here but as the industry isn't policed bad RGI's and cowboys are free to do their ting.

shane0007

Welcome aboard. Once you have your RGII registration sorted, PM DGOBS with your RGI number to access the RGI Tech Forum. Great support there from fellow RGI's.

Most guys will be with Arachas (www.arachas.ie) for their Trademaster package. It is the most competitive in the country & covers you for nearly all requirements. If you will not be employing, you won't need the €13.5M EL cover but just the €6.5M PL.
They will also send through your Insurance Cert to all relevant bodies as it renews annually, such as RGII & SEAI. Saves a lot of messing each year.

lilywhitebhoy

gary71 wrote: »

Mutual recognition is a waste of money(it was for me) as it only lasts as long as your ACS and you will then have to resit again.

The fundamental difference in working here and the UK is here you have gasmans discretion:eek: which is reliant on training and experience, so new entrants with a couple of weeks training are put in a position where mistakes can be made through no fault of their own that could end a life. In the UK you do what the books says and there is no room for second guessing your regs.

Coming from the Uk you will find the lack of interest (by some) in good working practise a bit of a problem, it's up to each individual RGI to determine their own working practise,there are some very very good RGI's here but as the industry isn't policed bad RGI's and cowboys are free to do their ting.

oaft thats some scary situations right there lol. yep im used to going by the book suits me i can sleep well at night.

lilywhitebhoy

shane0007 wrote: »

Welcome aboard. Once you have your RGII registration sorted, PM DGOBS with your RGI number to access the RGI Tech Forum. Great support there from fellow RGI's.

Most guys will be with Arachas (www.arachas.ie) for their Trademaster package. It is the most competitive in the country & covers you for nearly all requirements. If you will not be employing, you won't need the €13.5M EL cover but just the €6.5M PL.
They will also send through your Insurance Cert to all relevant bodies as it renews annually, such as RGII & SEAI. Saves a lot of messing each year.

yea i will do that when i get sorted thanks shane. got dealing with Arachas today guy seemed decent enough (for an insurance salesman lol) reasonable rate so should be all systems go in no time thanks for the heads up

QBE

DGOBS wrote: »

Its your (our) industry, and only people like yourselves can change it.

Join the committees, attend the meetings, comment and submit on the white papers, band together and apply for the tender when rgii is up for renewal, force the change, do no accept drive-by inspections report them to CER and on and on........

Newbies to the industry is a good thing, by the entry requirement drastically need to change, also the certification, how can a non-plumber hold a GID cert, there should be a separate technician cert or something to distinguish gas plumbers from someone say trained as an appliance technician with gas safety training.

Is this still going on? Is there any kind of legislation going to be put in place to stop this or even been considered?

.jacksparrow.

See the plumber who was charged with manslaughter over the death of the woman in Kinsale yesterday, very tragic story. Just proves once again, in this work its a matter of life and death.

rebeve

Have to say as a consumer my interaction with the RGI was nothing short of a joke .

Billy Bunting

rebeve wrote: »

Have to say as a consumer my interaction with the RGI was nothing short of a joke .

Not exactly constructive criticism, perhaps you would expand on the joke?

scudo2

rebeve wrote: »

Have to say as a consumer my interaction with the RGI was nothing short of a joke .

That's becouse there gas men!

Qualitymark

One reason people use non-RGI installers is that there's really nowhere that has a plain, direct, honest price list for parts and installation in typical houses of various sizes. So people say "Oh, the hell with the risible grant and its RGI installers, I've had three varying quotes, I'll take this one".
If there were more plain speaking and straight dealing, customers would know where they were.

Qualitymark

Qualitymark wrote: »

One reason people use non-RGI installers is that there's really nowhere that has a plain, direct, honest price list for parts and installation in typical houses of various sizes. So people say "Oh, the hell with the risible grant and its RGI installers, I've had three varying quotes, I'll take this one".
If there were more plain speaking and straight dealing, customers would know where they were.

I do love a bit of generalisation to start the week, so thanks for that.

I know lots of RGI's who do exactly what your asking for, quotes can be different because the RGI is not always quoting same for same which is sometimes lost on the householder.

Why would anybody want to use a "non-RGI" a tradesman who hasn't met the most basic of safety requirements.

JohnnieK

Qualitymark wrote: »

One reason people use non-RGI installers is that there's really nowhere that has a plain, direct, honest price list for parts and installation in typical houses of various sizes. So people say "Oh, the hell with the risible grant and its RGI installers, I've had three varying quotes, I'll take this one".
If there were more plain speaking and straight dealing, customers would know where they were.

Every house is different, it's not a washing machine there buying. Some houses are very costly to zone for the grant and others are not. People should ask for a broken down quote and not just an email with the price on it.