**Why you should insist on RGI. when working with gas**

Billy Bunting

But then again, why bother when unregistered cowboys get away with this. :mad:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016512/Hero-pensioner-John-Davies-saved-granddaughter-burning-house.html

An RGI registered gas installer can be located at

www.rgii.ie

Hero pensioner saved granddaughter from burning house after gas blast caused by cowboy plumber John Davies was covered in flames but saved his life by diving into the snow to put himself out

Plumber Peter Naylor escaped jail
By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 1:06 PM on 20th July 2011

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A grandfather badly burned in a huge explosion caused by a cowboy plumber's botched handy work dived back into his burning bungalow to rescue his nine-year-old granddaughter.
Pensioner John Davies was almost killed following the gas blast which left him temporarily blinded with 21 per cent burns.
Remarkably despite writhing in flames which he put out by diving into snow, Mr Davies, 67, still managed to rescue Amelia from a bedroom in the £100,000 bungalow in Willenhall, West Midlands.

Pensioner John Davies was left temporarily blinded by the explosion and suffered 21 per cent burns
And the days following the terrifying ordeal in December last year Amelia, who was unharmed, touchingly offered to be her granddads 'eyes' after the former delivery driver was struggled to see following the explosion.
More...Runaway tractor crashes into car and careers through garden before smashing into family home
Nightclubber who glassed barmaid leaving her with 'horrific' injuries is jailed for seven-and-a-half years
When planking goes wrong: Woman smashes chin on cooker attempting to pose for photo

Plumber Peter Naylor escaped a jail sentence yesterday at Wolverhampton Crown Court. He was given a 10-month prison sentence, suspended for a year, and ordered to carry out 150 hours of unpaid work after admitting a health and safety breach.

The court heard Naylor had agreed a fee of £125 to fix a dripping tap and needed to remove a gas meter - which he was not qualified to do - to get to it.
But the 61-year-old's work flooded the kitchen and he left Mr Davies to dry it out while he went to fetch a part.
Plumber Peter Naylor, left, escaped a jail sentence yesterday at Wolverhampton Crown Court following the explosion where Mr Davies, right, was badly burned
The grandfather-of-two plugged in an electric heater in an effort to speed up the dry-out.
But a huge explosive took hold and ripped the house apart after gas had been left to seep out.
Today the couple spoke for the first time about how their lives have been turned upside down by the devastating accident.
Recalling the incident, a tearful Mr Davies said: 'I can remember looking at the heater and thinking it was melting. Then I heard a bang and what happened after that I just don't know.

'I remember going out the back and rolling in the snow. The flames were all on my arms and my clothes were stuck to me. The snow saved my life and I feel lucky to be alive.'

Mr Davies' and his wife Margaret, 65, told how they had lost all their possessions, including photographs and a cherished china tea set which once belonged to her mother
Mr Davies was left with 21 per cent burns to his face, neck and hands, but went back inside to rescue his nine-year old granddaughter Amelia.

She escaped unharmed but the bungalow had to be demolished following the drama. Mr Davies spent three weeks in the burns unit at Birmingham's Queen Elizabeth Hospital.
He had a skin graft to his left hand, which now has less grip. His face remains tender and he needs to stay in the shade on sunny holidays.
Mr Davies recalled how Amelia had carried a TV into his bedroom while he was recovering.
'She said 'I know you can't watch it but if you want to know anything, I will tell you. If you want I'll be your eyes.'

Mr Davies' wife Margaret, 65, told how the couple had lost all their possessions, including photographs and a cherished china tea set which once belonged to her mother.
The couple, who have a grown-up son and daughter, are now living in rented accommodation in Bilston, West Midlands, paid for by their insurers while a new bungalow is built on the same site.
Mr Davies, pictured with his wife Margaret, said he remembers rolling in the snow with flames on his arms
Mr Davies, who denied Naylor's claims that he had warned him he was unqualified, said he had hoped Naylor would have got a longer sentence.
Self-employed Naylor, who has now retired after a 30 year career, was uninsured.

Richard Quinn, defending, told Wolverhampton Crown Court: 'He's extremely remorseful and he's been having difficulty sleeping. The plight of Mr Davies is constantly on his mind. He completely and utterly accepts the blame.'

Judge Imaged Nawaz told Naylor: 'What you did was so, so reckless that you nearly caused the death of a number of people.'

Speaking after the sentence, Mr Davies added: 'I am very, very lucky to be alive and my granddaughter.'

His wife of 44-years, who was out shopping at the time of the explosion, said: 'Ever since it's happened, Amelia's been all about her Grandad.'

Destroyed: The bungalow had to be demolished following the explosion and is being rebuilt


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016512/Hero-pensioner-John-Davies-saved-granddaughter-burning-house.html#ixzz1SraKtXJj

JohnnieK

That's terrifying stuff Billy. If it happened over here though it wouldn't get half the coverage:mad:

Stove Fan

Very bad stuff:mad: Very lucky to be alive!

Billy Bunting

and more......

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/Gas-blast-couple-treated-burns-roof-lifted-home/story-12995374-detail/story.html

knighted_1

new zealand -

PRESS RELEASE | 12 July 2011

Nelson gasfitter’s conduct found unacceptable
A Nelson gasfitter has been found guilty of professional shortcomings and unacceptable conduct.

The Board has found that Paul Gee breached the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act when he carried out gasfitting work on a house in Malvern Avenue, Nelson.

Mr Gee incorrectly installed a gas water heater by not allowing sufficient clearance between it and an openable window. It was installed by Mr Gee too close to an openable window, which created a risk that products of combustion and carbon monoxide could have entered into the house.

The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board decided the case against Mr Gee in relation to work carried out on six other properties in the Tasman Bay and Westport areas including the Milton Street takeaways shop in Nelson was not established.

The takeaways was the scene of an explosion in April 2009.The cause was found to be a gas leak, which developed at the rear of two gas fires.

The case against Mr Gee was not established at properties at Main Road, Havelock, Greenwood Street, Motueka, Pah Street at Motueka High School, Dommett Street, Westport and Powick Street, Westport.

For the charge Mr Gee was found guilty of, the tribunal said: “Mr Gee is not a mere plumber as he referred to himself, but an experienced gasfitter. For a practitioner of Mr Gee’s status, these applied professional shortcomings are seen as being very serious and his conduct unacceptable.”

In considering the charge, the Board noted Mr Gee’s lack of appreciation of process, objectives and accountability when signing gas certification certificates and certifying gas installations.

The Board also said there was a demonstrated lack of understanding about the reasons for maintaining adequate clearances between instantaneous gas water heating appliances and openable windows and the risk that carbon monoxide presents.

The Department of Labour laid a complaint with the PGDB about the Milton Street matter and the PGDB undertook its own investigation. As a consequence, a further six properties were also identified as potentially posing a risk to the health and safety of the public.

The Board deals with the competency of gasfitters and any disciplinary actions that arise from that. For compensation, any affected parties need to lodge a civil claim with the courts.

The Board will now arrange a meeting between the parties to decide on penalties, after which time Mr Gee will have the right of appeal.

JohnnieK

I wish it was that tight over here:(

Imagine if that happened here, go on RGII you can do it;)


A builder has been jailed after installing a gas boiler without being Gas Safe registered. Bradford Magistrates' Court heard that John Howe, trading as J Howe Plumbing & Construction, was paid  £28,000 to build a bungalow, Howe installed a gas boiler in the loft and gas hob in the kitchen and connected these to the mains supply, despite not being a registered engineer.
Howe pleaded guilty to five breaches of health and safety legislation and Gas Safety Regulations and was jailed for four months.


BR Greenwell Heating & Plumbing Services, of Llantrisant, Cardiff, has pleaded guilty to a breach of the Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations 1998. Partners Christopher Bates and Lewis John Rees were fined £5,000 in total and ordered to pay costs of £8,000.


A man who falsely claimed he was a registered gas engineer has been sent to prison for two years for endangering people's lives at two properties in Lancashire, including a baby boy.


A gas fitter has been fined for installing a boiler in a domestic property, despite not being Gas Safe registered. Anthony Goddard, of Whitchurch,Cardiff, was fined £600 and ordered to pay £2,700 in costs at Cardiff Magistrates Court in the case brought by the Health & Safety Executive (HSE).

anuprising

http://www.thejournal.ie/man-and-two-children-found-dead-in-sligo-house-308094-Dec2011/

deaths in Sligo , very sad news

sbkenn

RGI doesn't necessarilly mean SAFE !
A friend of mine had his parents killed when an RGI installer left something blocking the flue. The very first time they used the boiler, they died !

JohnnieK

sbkenn wrote: »

RGI doesn't necessarilly mean SAFE !
A friend of mine had his parents killed when an RGI installer left something blocking the flue. The very first time they used the boiler, they died !

Jesus thats terrible news. My heart goes out to your friend and his family. When/where did this happen?

anthonyos

rgi means nothing when you have sparks and brickies training as "gas installers" with the likes of Chevron

JohnnieK

A friend of mine is doing his GID at the moment in FAS and putting it mildly out of a class of 9 Him and two others are plumbers:eek::eek::eek:. And one of the plumbers doesn't even know how to solder :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:.

I thought all this was supposed to have stopped.

anthonyos

ye every tom dick and harry is rgi it is only a money racket but the industry needs regulation but rgi and the training organisations are only interested in money the gis gid exams are a farus

This industry is a joke and is overseen by jokers, from drive by inspections to weak direction in issues of gas safety, with the amount of unskilled RGIs that have flocked to this industry I feel it only a matter of time before a death occurs at the hands of these spoof gas fitters.

DGOBS

Its your (our) industry, and only people like yourselves can change it.

Join the committees, attend the meetings, comment and submit on the white papers, band together and apply for the tender when rgii is up for renewal, force the change, do no accept drive-by inspections report them to CER and on and on........

Newbies to the industry is a good thing, by the entry requirement drastically need to change, also the certification, how can a non-plumber hold a GID cert, there should be a separate technician cert or something to distinguish gas plumbers from someone say trained as an appliance technician with gas safety training.

Billy Bunting

I don't know how some of these so called GIDs can sleep at night, i certainly wouldn't dream of touching anything that i wasn't 100% about.

JohnnieK

DGOBS wrote: »

Its your (our) industry, and only people like yourselves can change it.

Join the committees, attend the meetings, comment and submit on the white papers, band together and apply for the tender when rgii is up for renewal, force the change, do no accept drive-by inspections report them to CER and on and on........

Newbies to the industry is a good thing, by the entry requirement drastically need to change, also the certification, how can a non-plumber hold a GID cert, there should be a separate technician cert or something to distinguish gas plumbers from someone say trained as an appliance technician with gas safety training.

I did join an association last year but they seem to have fallen off the face of the planet.
I suspect if it does go to tender and someone else wins it, Willy Wilson and his mates will still worm there way into the new entity.

Billy Bunting

Billy Bunting wrote: »

I don't know how some of these so called GIDs can sleep at night, i certainly wouldn't dream of touching anything that i wasn't 100% about.

The problem is they don't get or understand how dangerous gas can be, what do they have to go on except for a few hairy assed grumpy sods bitching at them, they don't have RGII helping them improve, they can't go and take a gas qualification, the first they know is when their being prosecuted, then RGII will be more than happy to tell them how dangerous they are.

I used to think I was as good as these tv chefs, how hard could it be;)
well after handling a very hot chille 5 minutes before going to the loo, then a hour in the bath filled mainly with tears of pain and a bit of ice, after all that I realised a little pinch of knowledge and a sprinkle of over confidence can end in tears.

The easiest entry point in to gas fitting in the UK is fitting gas meters, new entrants who are not suited to working on gas will leave the industry very quickly at this point as the pressure they are under to work safely from safety monitoring groups is to much for them.

JohnnieK

JohnnieK wrote: »

I did join an association last year but they seem to have fallen off the face of the planet.
I suspect if it does go to tender and someone else wins it, Willy Wilson and his mates will still worm there way into the new entity.

Well I have to with draw what I said because after an email they have got back to me and are hoping to have a meeting in early March:o

JohnnieK

What are drive by inspections?

I've been inspected 3 times since 2010. The last one was in Skerries Christmas week. I wasn't there at the time, it was an oil to Gas installation. The customer said he was very tourer, checked the gas inlet on high, earth bonding even made sure the sleeve was sealed right going through the wall.

My customer knew what he was up to because he was watching me and I was explaining the steps to him, sound man he was.

Drive by inspection
My tame RGI Inspector has a habit of meeting installers by the meter, get the meter details, get the appliance details then jumping back in the car with a wave and a see you next year.

I like that it's painless, but I would prefer if a inspection matched the seriousness of the job.

JohnnieK

APHCI general meeting in the redcow on Thursday the 29th at 7pm. Come support your trade.

spireland32

hi all, APHCI has been working very hard behind the scenes,
we had a press conference in buswells hotel 2 weeks ago. newstalk, daily mail, rte all covered the story. we were on ireland am on tv3 last week.
have spoke with joe duffy about doing a piece on his show. we sent a letter to brussels to the european commissioner on competition. spoke with the competition auth here. there's a meeting in the red cow on thursday at 7pm. we had 90-110 enquires into membership with the recently media attention.

If you are not a member you can attend the red cow hotel this thursday at 7pm and join at the door. or join on our website aphci.ie. we need to work together to take our industry back, we are stronger as a unit. dont leave it to someone else....JOIN NOW!! we are also on twitter search for @aphci

How did this go?

In a week when I received my newsletter from RGI telling me how fantastic they are, but what can be done in separating the switched on decent and safe RGI's (and i include new entrants who have the skills to work on gas) from the blow ins and suspect older RGI's who shouldn't be allowed to pass gas let alone work on it, I am fed up of tidying up some card carring RGI's crap, from not knowing how to press the on button on a boiler to half inch flow/returns and badly fitted flues, have they not heard about carbon monoxide :mad:

I'm sure APHCI are great at pissing off Sierra but what will thay do to tidy up this silliness.

JohnnieK

gary71 wrote: »

How did this go?

In a week when I received my newsletter from RGI telling me how fantastic they are, but what can be done in separating the switched on decent and safe RGI's (and i include new entrants who have the skills to work on gas) from the blow ins and suspect older RGI's who shouldn't be allowed to pass gas let alone work on it, I am fed up of tidying up some card carring RGI's crap, from not knowing how to press the on button on a boiler to half inch flow/returns and badly fitted flues, have they not heard about carbon monoxide :mad:

I'm sure APHCI are great at pissing off Sierra but what will thay do to tidy up this silliness.

It went very well!
Apart from Sierra they will be approaching RGII about issues, but Also the CER who hold the leash. They have obtained a copy of the RGII accounts for 2010 and it;s quite interesting.
Also they are only accepting members who have evidence of a trade back ground ie Plumbing, gas fitting and Electrical who work on appliances.

My idea would be on the GID 5 year resit put us in a bay with 3 appliances, some that have faults that are immediately dangerous, not faults that Tony(DGOBS) would put on but simple but dangerous life ending faults that a RGI should be able to spot all day everyday, anybody(Including me:eek:) that fails to spot these faults should be prevented from working, retrained untill they can prove that are safe to work in people's homes.

A installer I know who had a drive by inspection has fitted two of my HE boiler with flues allowing carbon monoxide in to the property, the second time was after I gave him free training on gas safety and how to keep his customer alive a least long enough to get payed, how can this accident waiting to happen be allowed to carry a RGI card.

anuprising

gary71 wrote: »

A installer I know who had a drive by inspection has fitted two of my HE boiler with flues allowing carbon monoxide in to the property, the second time was after I gave him free training on gas safety and how to keep his customer alive a least long enough to get payed, how can this accident waiting to happen be allowed to carry a RGI card.

did you report it to rgii ?

http://www.rgii.ie/support/gas-installation-complaint.2683.html

no point complaining on here about how crap rgi are if your not going to use thier procedures .

JohnnieK

There's no where else to complain about them. Rgii have to accept entrants if they hold a gid be they a plumber an electrician or a farmer. The cer and the training schools are to blame for this because they were letting every tom dick and harry into it. Rgi are to blame on the front of not policing it rigorously.
Money is not an issue because they had a surplus of €410,000 euros on the 2010 accounts.

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

did you report it to rgii ?

http://www.rgii.ie/support/gas-installation-complaint.2683.html

no point complaining on here about how crap rgi are if your not going to use thier procedures .

I like the way you ask a question then answer it yourself, you must never be short of great conversation

It's my experiences with RGI that leads me to bitch on here as I have nowhere else to vent, the last time I tried to report a site with hazards it didn't end well for me as everybody hates a whistleblower, so I find your suggestion a bit farcical but good luck with your optimism:)

JohnnieK will tell you how a RGI can clear another RGIs hazard notice by doing nothing but disagreeing with the first RGI opinion, the hazard is still there.

anuprising

gary ,as a member of rgi you have a duty of care . if you know of bad gas works you report it . i didnt say anything about a notefication of hazzad but if as you say an install occured where co was leaking into a house that is an automatic shut down ,a danger to life . not up to you to rectify it ,or manufacturer to rectify . you should follow the procedure as laid down and that installer wont be long about being suspended .dont know about where you live but here there are suspensions every single day.

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

gary ,as a member of rgi

I'm Gassafe and RGI

anuprising wrote: »

you have a duty of care .

fully aware thanks

anuprising wrote: »

if you know of bad gas works you report it

I do, the last time I was threatened by a inspector for being a jobs worth:mad:

anuprising wrote: »

. i didnt say anything about a notefication of hazzad but if as you say an install occured where co was leaking into a house that is an automatic shut down ,a danger to life . not up to you to rectify it ,or manufacturer to rectify . you should follow the procedure as laid down and that installer wont be long about being suspended

Hasn't happened so far, but I live with hope:)

anuprising wrote: »

.dont know about where you live but here there are suspensions every single day.

I live in Roscommon, I cover the whole country.

anuprising

heres a link , pick one and post who threatened you .

http://www.rgii.ie/safety/inspectors.2727.html


why do you link the rgi and bord gais on your website when you have nothing good to say about them .? im curious

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

heres a link , pick one and post who threatened you .

http://www.rgii.ie/safety/inspectors.2727.htmls

I'm not brave enough to do that, what good do you think it would do me, I got a big mouth but I can't risk having my RGI card taken away.

anuprising wrote: »

why do you link the rgi and bord gais on your website when you have nothing good to say about them .? im curious

Didn't know I did, any web site I have was done by a family member years ago and is not something i even think about, I would still have RGI, Bord Gais on any site I would do now because that's what the public would judge me by.

I have nothing good to say about RGI or Bord Gais that's because I want to work in a safer gas industry and I don't think they are doing enough, you may think I don't warrant that opinion that's fine we all have different working experiences.

JohnnieK

Is there a link to who has been suspended? Or an avenue as to make the public aware of who has been suspended? I've looked at www.rgii.ie and can't find anything maybe I just can't see it.

A friend of mine was suspended before Christmas. He was due an inspection but he had no gas jobs for nearly 2 months so they suspended him instead:mad: a lot of fluting around before he was let back on. Ironically two days after suspension he got a boiler job but had to turn it down.

Just noticed the "report illegal gas works" form, a section where you contact the original installer to make them aware and to log there response. Is it up to us now to chase these people now?

I was raking my brain for any eejits I know who have been suspended, couldn't think of any till I remembered they suspended me after Christmas:o

spireland32

Nice read for anyone in the industry... Please join the more we have the stronger we are. The regular guys on here talk with passion and pride about their industry we would love to have guys like you on board.

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/competition-authority-launches-investigation-into-bord-gais-says-aphci-414489-Apr2012/

nuzzer

you can do both gid gis if you are on the f...ing dole now without any nat craft cert in any trade,suppose next they'll be given out kane455's

DGOBS

Since when? Entry requirements haven't changed? GIS GID. are about to disappear and change to DGS and AFAIK Oftec will no longer be accepted as an entry either

If people are getting onto these courses without the correct entry requirements you should report it to the CER and INAB

anuprising

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056607185

another example of why we need rgi's ,and not diy installs . it seems that with all the advertising that rgi and board gais has done ,it has not reached everyone about the dangers of badly installed and/or serviced appliances.

i got banned from the home appliances forum for airing my views ,with the last post i made being deleted .

i think this belongs in this thread as its a safety warning to others

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056607185

another example of why we need rgi's ,and not diy installs . it seems that with all the advertising that rgi and board gais has done ,it has not reached everyone about the dangers of badly installed and/or serviced appliances.

i got banned from the home appliances forum for airing my views ,with the last post i made being deleted .

i think this belongs in this thread as its a safety warning to others

Did you report it to Boards?

No point complaining on here about how crap Boards are if your not going to use their procedures.:D

anuprising

very good - I asked for that didn't I

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

very good - I asked for that didn't I

:D

Billy Bunting

anuprising wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056607185

another example of why we need rgi's ,and not diy installs . it seems that with all the advertising that rgi and board gais has done ,it has not reached everyone about the dangers of badly installed and/or serviced appliances.

i got banned from the home appliances forum for airing my views ,with the last post i made being deleted .

i think this belongs in this thread as its a safety warning to others

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it till the red cards get me banned, I find it maddening when bad or incorrect info is given out when it’s a safety issue, there are several things I wont comment on as I don’t feel I am qualified enough to do so, I’m also bright enough to realise others give wrong info unknowingly, but when I see a member with a title arguing in a way that gives an impression to new members that they are all knowing on their given board then they really do need to be ADVISED to wind their necks in.

I find being a gas engineer in Ireland very difficult at times, it is not a respected trade, due I think to the level of competence between RGI is not consistent, leading to confused mixed messages and half truths for customers interacting with us who here what suits and ignore(at times) good working practise/advice.

If in the UK a gas engineer stated that black stain/soot is not a good thing the customer would be happy to listen, but here on Boards as in life it ends in a pissing competion to get the same message across:mad: and unfortunately that message gets missed sometimes.

Got your PM can't see the problem, it's a shame it was turned in to a pissing competion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2131014/Gas-fitter-poor-quality-work-led-carbon-monoxide-death-millionaires-daughter-weeps-sentenced-years-prison.html
The link above is the outcome of a boiler related death in the UK.

As a apprentice I was taught to close my eyes and imagine I was in the dock of a coroners court explaining the gas work I had just carried out, it's something I still do today and the paronia keeps me safe.

I have worked in a highly regulated environment which couldn't prevent the deaths i have sadly witnessed, deaths like the one reported above caused by silly avoidable mistakes, the pressure put upon gas installers in to the UK by Gassafe is heavy and causes some new entrants to leave the industry due to the fear of leaving a hazard.

I find there is less fear of gas here sadly, so I would ask anybody who wishes to give it a lash to read the above story, imagine its you in the dock about to lose everything then use that thought the next time you're in to much of hurry to put the gauge on or bridge out a safety device to get you out the door, Gary.

Billy Bunting

I was called to a job today on a caravan, it was repaired before easter but no cert on site, woman complaining of stinging eyes, straight away spotted a bucking paint tin had been placed over the flue terminal, obviously not spotted by the smart arsed "engineer" as he simply linked out the spillage stat. :eek:

Good stuff, another life saved, imagine if you had been there just to look at the hob and you missed the boiler, that's the scary bit.

Billy Bunting

Exactly why you need to go by the book.

JohnnieK

Had to put this in.
Came across a company today called "Carbon Monoxide Services":D:D. I wonder what kind of levels the are offering :pac::pac::pac:

wing52

'bout 400 ppm:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: !!!!!!!