Orange Order

Cookie33

I agree with Gulliver, we should have more parades up the north regardless of what the occasion as long as there's good bands involved

sensibleken

Cookie33 wrote: »

I agree with Gulliver, we should have more parades up the north regardless of what the occasion as long as there's good bands involved

Im sure we could persuade Therapy? to play

Bottle_of_Smoke

Gulliver wrote: »

Gay Rights (maybe pink sashes!),

Wonder has this been done on gay pride marches in belfast, google images not throwing anything up but surely someone would have thought of that.

Just imagine a bunch of tanned men with bowler hats, suits, white gloves with pink sashes.

you just reignited the troubles mate

Gulliver

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Wonder has this been done on gay pride marches in belfast, google images not throwing anything up but surely someone would have thought of that.

Just imagine a bunch of tanned men with bowler hats, suits, white gloves with pink sashes.

you just reignited the troubles mate

Aw, come on! I didn't mean to reignite them! Joining them is the best option though. Don't protest/fight, just march with them.

You could have carnival games too:
Petrol Bomb
A wooden PSNI jeep, plastic bottle "petrol bombs" with yellow/orange streamers for flames. Hit the jeep 3 times to win a prize.

Brick Throwing
Plastic bricks thrown at sugarglass shopfronts and car windscreens

Riot Charge
Safety riot shields are placed in a bouncy castle and the player charges into them.

March Maze
You have to get from one end to the other without getting lost, but don't defy the commission and take the wrong route or it's game over.

Lambeg Drum
Specifically for those of a non-orange disposition. Feel the weight of a drum and see could you carry it around all day.

Each section of the parade would also be judged on music, style, neatness, formation, pace and sash blinging. No points for tans, sorry, and the pink section would look super in sailor hats, not bowlers.

irishh_bob

junder wrote: »

So stamp it out then, get your politicians To ban all orange lodges and pull down orange halls, hell why not go the full hog and actively imprision orange members. Proof to us northern Irish unionists / loyalists just how welcome we are in your country and how well we would be welcome in a dis united Ireland

your post reminds me of governor george wallaces message to JFK only replace southerners with northeners

Liam Byrne

RMD wrote: »

So should we let them march contentious routes which we know will lead to large scale rioting resulting in thousands of pounds of damage just so the Order will be happy?

Which is causing the damage, the march or the thuggery and rioting ?

A dignified protest would be the way to go, but for some reason these events and protests always attract an unsavoury element.

If the pope arrives in Dublin next year I'll probably protest, but I won't be setting fires or throwing rocks.

KeithAFC

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Which is causing the damage, the march or the thuggery and rioting ?

A dignified protest would be the way to go, but for some reason these events and protests always attract an unsavoury element.

If the pope arrives in Dublin next year I'll probably protest, but I won't be setting fires or throwing rocks.

I actually believe the majority of people in Ardoyne held a peaceful protest and did it with dignity in that regard. I think people are organising to go into Ardoyne (outside the area) and causing chaos and then leaving for them to pick up the pieces.

Liam Byrne

KeithAFC wrote: »

I actually believe the majority of people in Ardoyne held a peaceful protest and did it with dignity in that regard. I think people are organising to go into Ardoyne (outside the area) and causing chaos and then leaving for them to pick up the pieces.

I agree, which is why I said those protests "always attract an unsavoury element".......I suspect that it is one of the reasons why Irish people don't protest.....because it's always hijacked by thugs and troublemakers.

LaBaguette

There's a small thing that bothering me about these parades and riots.

Irish Times wrote:

"Nationalist youths hijack a car in Ardoyne on Twelfth night after officers cordoned off the area to allow a loyalist parade through."

From what I've read over the time and from what I've seen live when Lizzy was in Parnell, these guys are just throwing and burning stuff for the kick of it. I highly doubt they have a strong opinion of the constitutional issues of this island. So I genuinly ask : why are they labelled "nationalists" ? Because they live in Ardoyne ? Because they used an Orange parade as an occasion for clashing with the police ?

I'm not Irish so I'm on neither side of the argument, but this seems at least biaised, at most misinformation and propaganda. Or is there any evidence that these hooded morons are actual members of RSF or éirigi ?

gigino

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Which is causing the damage, the march or the thuggery and rioting ?

A dignified protest would be the way to go, but for some reason these events and protests always attract an unsavoury element.

If the pope arrives in Dublin next year I'll probably protest, but I won't be setting fires or throwing rocks.

+1. The tens of thousands of marchers + spectators had a great time, a carnival family time not unlike St. Patricks day. In the 60's many Catholics watched + enjoyed the days holidays too. Others done their own thing for the day or whatever, and minded their own business, or went on holidays. Now some scumbags turn up to cause trouble + riot against the marchers ; they are scumbags and like some scumbags in parts of Dublin or parts of Limerick do not need much of an excuse to be anti-social / set a car alight.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I agree, which is why I said those protests "always attract an unsavoury element".......I suspect that it is one of the reasons why Irish people don't protest.....because it's always hijacked by thugs and troublemakers.

I think the protest had dispersed before any riots began. Hardline anti-Sinn Fein republicans are even calling the rioters scum on other sites.

Say there's a crowd of 200 people. There will be 20-30 people throwing stuff but the rest are just there for the craic.

Thought a good analysis here.

Northern Ireland violence triggered by ideology and a mistrust of the police
There is more to the marching season violence than apolitical thuggery, writes Henry McDonald

The official explanation for why there has been an upsurge in street violence in Northern Ireland this marching season is that it is the product of a socioeconomic underclass, nihlistic "recreational" rioting or apolitical thuggery.

Sinn Féin, for example, denounced the trouble that erupted on Monday night in west Belfast, most of it directed at the embattled Police Service of Northern Ireland, as nothing more than social vandalism.

The party's assembly member for the area, Jennifer McCann, claimed she had identified some of the rioters as serial antisocial hooligans. Less than a decade ago, her party was deploying a similar type of young people to physically oppose loyalist marches through or close by republican districts, albeit before Sinn Féin entered a powersharing arrangement with the Democratic Unionist party and went into power with unionism.

Of course, much of the violence and the mayhem over the past 24 hours, particularly on the republican side of Northern Ireland's sectarian fault line, has been seemingly mindless destruction and nihilist in spirit.

However, this is to ignore two important factors as to why hundreds have come on to the streets to confront a heavily armed and protected PSNI.

The first of these is ideology: many of those young republicans taking part in street violence across the city and beyond have little or no investment in the current political settlement at Stormont. Unemployed and with little prospect of long-term, fulfilling jobs, this social group is alienated from the political process. They see all politicians and especially those from "their side" as part of the establishment, aloof and indifferent to them.

Add to this historic mistrust of the police – much of it engendered by the very people who now condemn them while encouraging their peers to join the PSNI – and you have a lethal cocktail of resentment towards any force of authority in society.

Sprinkle on top the influence of ideologically-fired republican dissident organisations from the Real IRA to the Continuity IRA and you have an explosive mix ready to detonate at any time but in particular during the marching season.

The second major impetus for the spike in social unrest this summer is the behaviour of loyalist paramilitaries – the Ulster Volunteer Force and Ulster Defence Association.

The action of the UVF in east Belfast and latterly the UDA in places such as Ballyclare set the agenda for this marching season.

The UVF sortie into the Short Strand Catholic enclave of east Belfast – an operation designed to bolster the position of a local loyalist commander – prompted a violent counter-reaction and convinced younger republicans that violence does pay. Remember that within 48 hours of the UVF assault on the district, government ministers and Northern Ireland officials were queuing up to negotiate with loyalists and offer them inducements to end their violence.
The UDA also learnt this lesson and orchestrated a crisis out of a dispute over flags outside a Catholic church to put their demands on to the political agenda. And so it goes.

In Ardoyne, just 24 hours before the Orange Order parade that was to pass by the beleaguered nationalist district, there was repetition of the mantra that loyalists' threats and intimidation had paid off with even senior PSNI officers apologising to them for taking down flags that were not supposed to have been erected in the first place.

The conclusion to the younger disgruntled republicans already spoiling for a fight was that the most powerful message you could transmit to the state was via violence. This is why there has been such an upsurge during the 2011 marching season and why the possible winners in the current battle of territory in Northern Ireland may be the republican dissident organisations, who will soon have another slew of recruits from among the streetfighters battling the security forces across Belfast and beyond.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/12/northern-ireland-violence-ideology-police

Cookie33

My dad, 2 grandads, uncles and even my brother-in-law are in the orange order. I used to be in a band as well along with cousins and friends. Anyway growing up with a strong culture for the 12th, I was and still am proud of it. I have had arguments with my dad over the years about the orange order as I don't agree with some of the things that are in their rule book.

For me, I love going to the 12th's every day, perhaps attending the occasional parade outside that. Every year we see the riots in Belfast and I think they seem to be getting worse each month. I wish to see peace in Northern Ireland some day which means that Catholics and Protestants need to work together.

A news story on UTV today: Order snubs McGuinness talks offer
http://www.u.tv/News/Order-snubs-McGuinness-talks-offer/a84538c8-f77e-4b89-8abc-3d3f23d17863

I mean how can Northern Ireland move forward if the Orange Order won't even talk to the other side. I can understand McGuinness is in the Sinn Fein but he is the Deputy First Minister and Robinson would have attended the talks as well.

Don't hold your breath for peace anyway!

Bottle_of_Smoke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEm-zzw4FmE

goat2

these trouble makers, are people with nothing better to do, could they not see that the vast majority in this country north and south, are very proud to have peace at last, these people causing trouble are just thugs.

charlemont

Was Diamond Dan The Orange Man in attendance this year ?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0403/orangeman.html?rss

CommuterIE

I'd say the UK will offload the North as soon as the opportunity arises...

It is an absolute headache for them economically and politically....

And WHEN that happens, all these Orange people will jump on the boats back to Scotland or wherever, happy days for all concerned They'll probably take the rest of their "loyalist" friends with them

junder

CommuterIE wrote: »

I'd say the UK will offload the North as soon as the opportunity arises...

It is an absolute headache for them economically and politically....

And WHEN that happens, all these Orange people will jump on the boats back to Scotland or wherever, happy days for all concerned They'll probably take the rest of their "loyalist" friends with them

How can I go 'back to scotland' when I am not form Scotland?

COYW

junder wrote: »

How can I go 'back to scotland' when I am not form Scotland?

You are in his mystical, magical republican world. He probably thinks that you sleep in your union jack pjs, with a picture of the Queen over your bed.

junder

COYW wrote: »

You are in his mystical, magical republican world. He probably thinks that you sleep in your union jack pjs with your sash around your neck and a picture of the Queen over your bed.

Damn it how did he guess, can't sleep unless I have 'god save our queen' on a constant loop, problem is I have to stand to attention every time I hear it so I got to sleep standing up

KeithAFC

CommuterIE wrote: »

I'd say the UK will offload the North as soon as the opportunity arises...

It is an absolute headache for them economically and politically....

And WHEN that happens, all these Orange people will jump on the boats back to Scotland or wherever, happy days for all concerned They'll probably take the rest of their "loyalist" friends with them

Are you serious?

Kev_ps3

The Orange Order are no different from the Ku Klux Klan, both racist bigoted organizations. They should be banned on this Island.

irishh_bob

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The Orange Order are no different from the Ku Klux Klan, both racist bigoted organizations. They should be banned on this Island.

both orgs were founded by scottish immigrants

KeithAFC

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The Orange Order are no different from the Ku Klux Klan, both racist bigoted organizations. They should be banned on this Island.

Good luck with that.

steddyeddy

Can some one tell me in their honest opinion is the orange order a sectarian organisation?

steddyeddy

KeithAFC wrote: »

Good luck with that.

He calls the oo a bigoted organisation and you ignored that part. I take that to mean you agree.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

irishh_bob wrote: »

both orgs were founded by scottish immigrants

I take it you have proof of this

irishh_bob

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

I take it you have proof of this

its well documented

Cookie33

steddyeddy wrote: »

Can some one tell me in their honest opinion is the orange order a sectarian organisation?

The Catholics regard it as sectarian, the Protestants regard it as a culture aimed at celebrating the Battle of the Boyne

Cookie33

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The Orange Order are no different from the Ku Klux Klan, both racist bigoted organizations. They should be banned on this Island.

Actually your mistaken as the KKK went around murdering black and white republians, basically anyone who didn't share their beliefs. The orange order don't go round murdering Catholics, I believe that is what the IRA is for, as they seem to murder both Catholics and Protestants

Broxi_Bear_Eire

irishh_bob wrote: »

its well documented

where I have never seen it