Orange Order

Noreen1

I'm not so sure.
The march in Rossnowlagh is not preceded by burning flags on bonfires, or any of the "build-up":rolleyes:, that goes on in NI.

Basically, the bands march, those who want to watch - and for everyone else it's business as usual.

The Orange order in the South seems to have a very different attitude to the 12th. It is not confrontational - hence no-one bothers.

In areas where the two communities have not integrated well, there might be problems, I suppose - but I'm equally sure that there are areas where, assuming the march was well-organised, and didn't restrict the movement of the general public, then it would pass off peacefully.

It's a two way street, at the end of the day.
Those who want respect must also show respect.
That's how it works in Donegal - and, up here, we're not that different.:D

Cathal O

I would ride myself cos im a sexy man wrote: »

The Cavan/Monaghan/Leitrim OO branches march there as well, probably because it isnt welcome in their areas.

I would imagine if this march took place in any urban area in Cavan/Monaghan there would be alot of trouble.

Well dont imagine. As a local of that area, i know these 'orangemen' are quite integrated with the society and would - not be welcome per say, but there would not be a protest for such a parade, as at that, the people were angered, it would be due to the main town being closed, regardless of the purpose.

So please dont presume what a reaction would be when you CLEARLY dont know the area.

The reason for the one in donegal is a collection of southern orange lodges, as one in each southern county would not amount to a parade of any worth due to the lack of numbers

deman

Cathal O wrote: »

Well dont imagine. As a local of that area, i know these 'orangemen' are quite integrated with the society and would - not be welcome per say, but there would not be a protest for such a parade, as at that, the people were angered, it would be due to the main town being closed, regardless of the purpose.
So please dont presume what a reaction would be when you CLEARLY dont know the area.

So you're telling somebody that they shouldn't make a comment about something because she doesn't know the area.

Cathal O wrote: »

The reason for the one in donegal is a collection of southern orange lodges, as one in each southern county would not amount to a parade of any worth due to the lack of numbers

And then you become an expert on Donegal??

You also seem to be an expert on the OO.

I would ride myself cos im a sexy man

Cathal you have been shown to be slightly hypocritical above by deman.

Now onto your other point of me not knowing the area, I am from the area, and quite frankly if you truely believe there would not be protests/violence if these orange order marches took place in C/M you are slightly delusional.

If I may ask the question, if you are so confident of this happening, why must the OO lodges from Cavan/Monaghan travel to Rossnowlagh to march with other thousands for their march and cannot march in Cavan/Monaghan? Could it be that their small numbers would be simply dwarfed by those protesting against such marches.

Also may I ask why the orange order hall in Cootehill is so hidden away, it cannot be found even if you were to actively look for it since they wont even signpost the area.

The same orange hall that has been burned to the ground on more than one occasion (I am not condoning such criminal behaviour). As recently as 2007 this happened...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOyjx_x9rg0

Why also if C/M are so accepting of OO, have all of the halls been vandalised and destroyed to such an extent that in 2008, Minister Eamonn O'Cuiv gave a grant of €250,000 to rebuild these halls from arson attack (another waste of taxpayers money by the way).

Cathal O

deman wrote: »

And then you become an expert on Donegal??

You also seem to be an expert on the OO.

Donegal marches are passing off peacefully - true ? yes, therefore i know that they are not Majorly opposed.
So i know that this is a fact.
Is it a fact that C/M OO march wouldnt pass off peacefully? no, thenit is not a fact so that is what i meant, not hypocritical.

No marches have ever been held in modern times in monaghan , so it is unknown what the reaction is, but if one happened in my locality i am 80% sure that the locals would not be too bothered (enough to protest that is) about the fact an orange march would take place, maybe that the fact they would be cordoned off in their own homes.

Aswell as that, the fact the above poster mentioned an orange hall being burned down, that is inexcusable, and should not be toleraated etc, however i think that these are adolesnt teens showing off to the "****in prods" to be cool. i doubt they know too much about the actual history etc of the OO apart from the fact they are not catholic etc,so i doubt these people would be the same to actively protest to cause any major scene against these parades.

however i am open to correction, sorry for anythin i posted that may be incorrect, but as i have said, this is just in my locality

caseyann

When do nationalists march through loyalist areas with Irish flags?

They shouldn't be allowed imo.

I would ride myself cos im a sexy man

Well 3 OO halls have been burned down in Cavan in recent years. They are not the same as protestants, I have no problem at all with protestant people.

The Orange Order however are bigots plain and simple and I would hope, they would not be made welcome the same as any similar discriminatory organisation.

The fact they are alot of protestants in C/M and about 2% of them are in the Orange Order tells its own tale. The last I read the hall in Cootehill is filled with Linfield FC memorabilia, which basically says it all about them.

sollar

LordSutch wrote: »

Those rioting dirtbags have no right to call themselves Nationalists, they are the total dregs of society, parented by the same kind of underclass that see nothing whatsoever wrong with throwing petrol bombs, rocks & fireworks at the police. > I blame the self proclaimed (but not really) Nationalists 100% for the violence, and I think its a disgrace that they then try & blame the marching bands!!!, as Gerry Kelly of SF said last night "the rioters even targeted cars & shops in their own area" (Ardoyne) for example, they are just total dirtbags, sadly they will probably propagate an other generation of dirtbags into this world who see nothing wrong with petrol bombing the police!

Well done to the PSNI for keeping the two sides apart, and sorry to see a number of policemen in hospital after the rioting, its a thankless but necessary job being a policemen up North, and I wouldn't do it for all the tea in China.

Wonderful lord sutch... let your undercurrent of bigotry shine through there. Did you post anything near as derogatory about the loyalist rioters in june??

Cathal O

I would ride myself cos im a sexy man wrote: »

Well 3 OO halls have been burned down in Cavan in recent years. They are not the same as protestants, I have no problem at all with protestant people.

The Orange Order however are bigots plain and simple and I would hope, they would not be made welcome the same as any similar discriminatory organisation.

The fact they are alot of protestants in C/M and about 2% of them are in the Orange Order tells its own tale. The last I read the hall in Cootehill is filled with Linfield FC memorabilia, which basically says it all about them.

Same, well all OO members are protestant, that's the only point i was making.
Again, i wouldnt mind the presence of a oo parade per say, so long as its for the benefit of and enjoyment of the community, but the oo itself are bigots, while many ordinary people who go to these parades go for the carnival atnosphere, its based on hatred and sectarianism.
Also : if these youths wernt destroying halls, they would destroy something else, maybe yet gain, social order needs to also be though of along with the obvious sectarian issues on both sides of the community

caseyann

LordSutch wrote: »

Those rioting dirtbags have no right to call themselves Nationalists, they are the total dregs of society, parented by the same kind of underclass that see nothing whatsoever wrong with throwing petrol bombs, rocks & fireworks at the police. > I blame the self proclaimed (but not really) Nationalists 100% for the violence, and I think its a disgrace that they then try & blame the marching bands!!!, as Gerry Kelly of SF said last night "the rioters even targeted cars & shops in their own area" (Ardoyne) for example, they are just total dirtbags, sadly they will probably propagate an other generation of dirtbags into this world who see nothing wrong with petrol bombing the police!

Well done to the PSNI for keeping the two sides apart, and sorry to see a number of policemen in hospital after the rioting, its a thankless but necessary job being a policemen up North, and I wouldn't do it for all the tea in China.

Just curious how do you know they are actual nationalists all of them?Do they have a sticker on their heads?Was it not loyalists who were attacking Irish

The loyalist terrorist group, which is supposed to have decommissioned its weapons, also opened fire on police officers in an attempt to kill them

However, many police believe loyalists are exploiting the dissident threat for their own end.

Now we also need to make headway against the unrepentant loyalists who think that dissident activity is their local opportunity for more criminality.

"Last week demonstrated that the loyalist paramilitaries are intent on making life as difficult as they can for their local communities and for the police service.

"UVF attacks on their nationalist neighbours resulted in dissident and UVF gunmen making murderous attacks on police officers and civilians.

Story so far

Trouble at the Short Strand interface last Monday and Tuesday has been described as the worst in the area in a decade. Police have said the violence was orchestrated by the UVF and both loyalists and republicans fired shots. A photographer was shot in the leg by a dissident republican gunman and police Land Rovers came under sustained attack







Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/call-for-uvf-crackdown-police-federation-demands-get-tough-policy-on-loyalists-16017266.html#ixzz1S1d3R9JC

Cookie33

Cathal O wrote: »

Donegal marches are passing off peacefully - true ? yes, therefore i know that they are not Majorly opposed.
So i know that this is a fact.
Is it a fact that C/M OO march wouldnt pass off peacefully? no, thenit is not a fact so that is what i meant, not hypocritical.

No marches have ever been held in modern times in monaghan , so it is unknown what the reaction is, but if one happened in my locality i am 80% sure that the locals would not be too bothered (enough to protest that is) about the fact an orange march would take place, maybe that the fact they would be cordoned off in their own homes.

Aswell as that, the fact the above poster mentioned an orange hall being burned down, that is inexcusable, and should not be toleraated etc, however i think that these are adolesnt teens showing off to the "****in prods" to be cool. i doubt they know too much about the actual history etc of the OO apart from the fact they are not catholic etc,so i doubt these people would be the same to actively protest to cause any major scene against these parades.

however i am open to correction, sorry for anythin i posted that may be incorrect, but as i have said, this is just in my locality

They don't have to be cordoned off in their own homes. The Fermanagh Orange Order invited Chairmen from Cavan and Monaghan and they said they had a very enjoyable day. Also last year we invited Longford Historical Society who initally thought the 12th's were nothing but trouble since the news only shows the riots. In fact they were pleasantly surprised and enjoyed the day as well

Richard

rounding tattenham Corner wrote: »

that's got to be one of the most silly things I've read yet, forced occupation! and what is your solution a million people should be moved back to Scotland?

And then, of course, back to Ireland, where the Scottish race originally came from.

Richard

steddyeddy wrote: »

In 1871 after more marching and rioting the orange orders activities were banned for a time.

.

Weren't all Orange marches in (pre-partition) Ireland banned at one point?

KeithAFC

steddyeddy wrote: »

I lived in america for a few years were catholics are in the minority and always were. The orange order has only two lodges there and indeed had the same problems with marches and subsequent rioting in the 19th century. Several marches went ahead and the orange men were arrested for inciting hatred and rioting. In 1871 after more marching and rioting the orange orders activities were banned for a time.

The KKK were also later arrested for marching and the subsequent rioting that they provoked. Those who dont think the orange order provoke rioting must also agree with kkk supporters assertation that their marchs dont incite rioting.

A lot Orange men carried on anyway, thousands of people would carry on today. Every 12th of july would still have marches and band parades. If they banned the 12th, all they would be doing is pissing off hundreds of thousands of people and only cause harm for the police and when I say harm, I mean utter chaos.

People take a very simple view of the 12th and think Orange Order. That is a lack of education and understanding of the 12th. Far more people are in bands that work towards the 12 all year, than people who are in the Orange Order.

It will never be banned in Ulster or stop the PUL people from marching. Would need to be very naive to think otherwise.

steddyeddy

KeithAFC wrote: »

A lot Orange men carried on anyway, thousands of people would carry on today. Every 12th of july would still have marches and band parades. If they banned the 12th, all they would be doing is pissing off hundreds of thousands of people and only cause harm for the police and when I say harm, I mean utter chaos.

People take a very simple view of the 12th and think Orange Order. That is a lack of education and understanding of the 12th. Far more people are in bands that work towards the 12 all year, than people who are in the Orange Order.

It will never be banned in Ulster or stop the PUL people from marching. Would need to be very naive to think otherwise.

Actually they didnt a lot targeted the wrong communities and were sent back to jail and didnt march again

steddyeddy

KeithAFC wrote: »

A lot Orange men carried on anyway, thousands of people would carry on today. Every 12th of july would still have marches and band parades. If they banned the 12th, all they would be doing is pissing off hundreds of thousands of people and only cause harm for the police and when I say harm, I mean utter chaos.

People take a very simple view of the 12th and think Orange Order. That is a lack of education and understanding of the 12th. Far more people are in bands that work towards the 12 all year, than people who are in the Orange Order.

It will never be banned in Ulster or stop the PUL people from marching. Would need to be very naive to think otherwise.

Educate me then Im willing to listen

Jelle1880

I would ride myself cos im a sexy man wrote: »

Well 3 OO halls have been burned down in Cavan in recent years. They are not the same as protestants, I have no problem at all with protestant people.

The Orange Order however are bigots plain and simple and I would hope, they would not be made welcome the same as any similar discriminatory organisation.

The fact they are alot of protestants in C/M and about 2% of them are in the Orange Order tells its own tale. The last I read the hall in Cootehill is filled with Linfield FC memorabilia, which basically says it all about them.

So basically you're condoning the burning down of OO halls, in order to 'make them feel not welcome'.

I think that says it all about you, right ?

NIMAN

The last week of rioting across the province just goes to show that all the improvements in recent years are like a new coat of paint over the surface.

Its still rotten underneath, and with 10yr olds now rioting, the future is not looking any better.

KeithAFC

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually they didnt a lot targeted the wrong communities and were sent back to jail and didnt march again

Actually yes they did. Banning the 12th would be like them banning marching all over Down and Antrim. Orange Men still did it. And carried on doing it. It was so not worth it, that they decided to unban it.

KeithAFC

IF, ON first meeting him, you did not know his background, you could easily imagine Chris Thackaberry strolling down O’Connell Street in a Celtic jersey or coming home from Hill 16 on a summer Sunday having seen the Dubs lose from a winning lead for the umpteenth time.

His accent tells you he is a working class Dubliner.

Yet unlike many of the people he grew up around, the signs and symbols of Irish nationalism mean nothing to him.

Chris Thackerberry is an Orangeman. He is a working-class Dublin Protestant who, on the day I speak to him, is getting ready to go north to attend the only Orange parade in the Republic of Ireland.

There are an estimated 45 to 50 Orange lodges in the Republic.

Most of them are based around the border counties of Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan, with one still left in Leitrim.

Thackaberry is one of 62 members who make up the lodge that lies furthest south; the Dublin and Wicklow Loyal Orange Lodge 1313, which sits on Northumberland Road in leafy Dublin 4.

Every year on the Saturday before the 12th of July, the members of the Dublin and Wicklow lodge join their fellow Orangemen from the Republic in Rossnowlagh, Co Donegal, to celebrate the victory of King William of Orange at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.

There are Lambeg drums and bowler hats and marching men in suits. Orange sashes are everywhere and yet since it started in 1978 there has rarely been trouble.

Thackerberry is happy to go to Donegal, but he looks forward to the day that southern Orangemen will be able to march in the capital. "I reckon it could happen in the next few years," he says. "I could see a change where the 10,000 odd Orangemen that live in the Republic and who are citizens of the Republic will look to have their parade in Dublin and I certainly will be pushing for that."

LOYAL TO THE CROWN

Thackerberry’s Orangeism is in no way contrived or contrarian. His family history is steeped in loyalty to the British crown and he has an inherent feeling of Britishness. Today he is a bit of a rarity but not so long ago the cities and towns of the south had strong working-class Protestant populations.

"If you take my auntie on mother’s side," says Chris. "Her name was Nancy Connor, she only died in 1995 but she would have considered herself British. She lived over there in the inner city on Daniel Street. She was working class and was a cleaner all her life and most of her street were Protestant. So growing up, there would have been a strong affiliation to Britain. Being Irish but certainly being part of Britain — that’s the view that would have held in the house."

It was a view that at times did not sit too well with some of Thackerberry’s neighbours, particularly when the family moved out to the suburbs of north Dublin.
"It was bad in the ‘70s and early ‘80s," recalls the 38-year-old. "During the hunger strikes you would have had lads, teenagers, shouting in at the house because it was a Protestant house."

Thackerberry, who has just started a tour company called Dublin Loyal Tours, is keen to emphasise that Orangeism, particularly in the south, should not be seen as an attempt to usurp the authority of the Irish republic. It is merely an alternate point of view.

"Orangeism is a different version of Irishness," he stresses. "In Northern Ireland they’re protecting their passport, their protecting their citizenship. In the south we’re saying we can look at it somewhat differently like in say Canada or in Australia where you have Orangemen who are loyal to the British connection but they’re Canadian or Australian first. And I think the same could be applied to the Republic. We are a state and our culture is part of that state."

CHALK AND CHEESE

So are northern Orangeism and southern Orangeism that different? "We’re completely chalk and cheese," he laughs. "I don’t care what anybody says. Southern and northern Protestants are completely different but on an institutional level we’re certainly united."

Somewhat ironically, the root of the Orange Institution, to give it its proper title, can be found in the need for the British empire to protect itself by recruiting soldiers from the Catholic population. Before the American War of Independence, Catholics were not allowed to join the army but when the empire was being stretched in its lucrative colonies, recruitment was opened up.

As an enticement, various Land Relief Acts were passed which gave Catholics more access to land than they had previously enjoyed. Unsurprisingly, this caused simmering tensions in what are today the border counties and in Armagh they boiled over in the late 1700s where gangs from both sides of the religious divide regularly attacked and murdered each other.

The ins and outs of the Order’s beginnings may be debated but there is no doubt that it was a child of this violent time. Started in 1795, the Orange Order was brought about to protect the interests of Protestants of the working and merchant classes against what governor of Armagh, Lord Gosford, described at the time as the crime of the "profession of the Roman Catholic faith".

Although the stronghold was always in the North, southern lodges were surprisingly numerous and sprang up in the towns where there was a critical mass of working Protestants. At one point it is believed that Dublin had at least 300 lodges, while Cork is known to have had at least eight, the last lodge disappeared sometime during World War I. Bandon in Cork had two lodges while parts of Offaly, Tipperary, Mayo, Kerry and Sligo were known to have had a tradition.

"It was always niche," says Professor David Butler, head of the Department of Academic Ancestry at the University of Limerick. "There were quite a number of families in the south that dabbled in it, even gentry and aristocracy in the period up to 1830, but after that it seems to have become more and more a sort of Protestant working man’s club and it was just sort of a way of celebrating difference and maintaining difference and maintaining identity."

Butler, who has researched the subject extensively, says the Order’s countrywide peak probably came sometime between 1800 and 1835 but that even before the Famine of the 1840s, numbers had started to decline. Catholic Emancipation in 1829, a campaign against the Church of Ireland, the aforementioned land relief bills and intermittent crackdowns on fraternities and mass meetings all contributed to what Butler calls "a perception that Ireland was becoming a cold country for Protestants".

PROTESTANT PRIVILEGE

Gradual erosion of Protestant privileges heralded the disappearance of lodges in the south. An economic recession led to a mass of people leaving the country, the bulk of them Protestant. In the far more contentious and tribal North, industry kept the lodges alive and many of its members stayed at home.

"I was lucky enough to come across a minute book of the last Bandon Orange Lodge," says Butler. "It dated from 1879 to 1891. And very early in that period, there were still two lodges in Bandon and one in Cork city. But the two in Bandon were coming together at that time. And most years there were frequent references to members who were now living overseas."

It is believed that the last Bandon lodge closed sometime around 1922 but Butler emphasises that the demise of the Orange Lodge is not strictly connected to the establishment of the Free State but rather should be looked at over a long period of time. And even then, it is likely to have continued in some form.

"I discovered in west Cork that as late as the Troubles breaking out in 1969 a mini-bus of I presume Cork city and west Cork enthusiasts at least, if not members, used to travel up to the marches," says Butler. "Nobody was ever kept away from standing on the edge of a parade and singing and clapping along. I think in the south, pre-1969, there was a far greater affinity with the parades when there wasn’t the viciousness. That has only really come in the last 40 years."

SECTARIANISM

But not every Protestant was particularly enamoured with the Orange Order, either here or in the north, and some denominations, such as Quakers and Reformed Christians, were never involved. To others it was something of an embarrassment. The major issue has always been sectarianism.

"The very raison d’etre of the Orange Institution is to maintain the true Protestant religion," says Butler. "It is a sectarian organisation. It would advocate that its members should not attend Roman Catholic churches no matter what the reason, there should be no inter marriage, there should be no inter church activity at all and certainly an Orange Hall wouldn’t be open to the wider community unless it was under the auspices of a member."

But, as Butler points out, if they were not sectarian then there would be no point in their very existence. And this is something Chris Thackaberry has no problem with. "We are sectarian in some respects. Sect as in a group and we’re Protestant and conservative."

But Thackaberry points out that although he would consider himself against the Catholic Church as an institution, he has no truck with Catholics themselves. What he is looking for is more recognition for a tradition that has been an integral part of the history of the island both north and south.

"In Dublin you have Africa Day, you have Chinese New Year in Smithfield and you have a gay pride parade. Now there could be arguments against the Orange Order because of the sectarianism but we are citizens of the state and I think it’s time that we had our parade like any other citizen of the state in Dublin."

Whether or not that ever happens, and Thackaberry seems quite confident that it will, the future looks bright for the Orange Order in the south.

"There’s a second lodge opening up in Dublin. It’s Trinity 1592 and obviously connected to Trinity College. There used to be one there before but the warrant [licence] was surrendered in 1965. So the Grand Lodge chaplin is the man behind getting the warrant re-issued to students, employees and ex-graduates. And I found out there recently that Lord [Edward] Carson was affiliated to the lodge when he was at Trinity."

"We’re also looking into the ownership of the Lodge in Bandon," he continues. "So there’s a possibility of re-issuing a warrant in west Cork."

While Thackaberry doesn’t envisage the British queen becoming head of state here, he would like closer links to Britain. "More closely on a political level with greater connections. The benefits for me would be more social than anything."

There may not be many Orangemen in the south, but those who remain seem determined to protect their heritage and to prove to the rest of us that their version of Irishness is no less valid than anybody else’s.

An Orange Lodge in Cork would be funny.

Blackjack

KeithAFC wrote: »

An Orange Lodge in Cork would be funny.

The earlier article quoted by KeithAFC wrote: »

"It is a sectarian organisation. It would advocate that its members should not attend Roman Catholic churches no matter what the reason, there should be no inter marriage, there should be no inter church activity at all and certainly an Orange Hall wouldn’t be open to the wider community unless it was under the auspices of a member."

Yep, just what we need, an already self-acknowledged sectarian organisation spreading further sectarianism and hatred.

Personally speaking, this country has enough problems right now with Economic contagion, without having to worry about contagion of sectarian nonsense fom the the north being spread any further.

Of course I'll now be castigated for not respecting a tradition, which part of their tradition is very publicly and outwardly disrespecting mine......

sollar

Blackjack wrote: »

Yep, just what we need, an already self-acknowledged sectarian organisation spreading further sectarianism and hatred.

Personally speaking, this country has enough problems right now with Economic contagion, without having to worry about contagion of sectarian nonsense fom the the north being spread any further.

Of course I'll now be castigated for not respecting a tradition, which part of their tradition is very publicly and outwardly disrespecting mine......

Right now protestants from the south get on very well with catholics. I know many where i live and there are absolutely no problems.

The growth of the orange order would not be a good thing down here imo.

Leave the mindless bigotry and the unhealthy obsession with religious identity (even though many aren't actually religious) up north. Afterall who would want to emulate the septic society that exists up there.

Cookie33

sollar wrote: »

Right now protestants from the south get on very well with catholics. I know many where i live and there are absolutely no problems.

The growth of the orange order would not be a good thing down here imo.

Leave the mindless bigotry and the unhealthy obsession with religious identity (even though many aren't actually religious) up north. Afterall who would want to emulate the septic society that exists up there.

Don't assume that the problems in Belfast and other places exist all over N.Ireland. Many places in the north are quite peaceful with the existance of catholics and protestants together

The Scientician

Equating orange marches with other ethnic celebrations is bullshít. On Africa Day people don't go around parading "Kill whitey!" regalia. A celebration of one's own culture is fine, but the Orange Order defines itself by celebrating its culture's domination of another, which to me is belligerent and anachronistic. Orange Marches in areas where they're not wanted should be stamped out.

junder

The Scientician wrote: »

Equating orange marches with other ethnic celebrations is bullshít. On Africa Day people don't go around parading "Kill whitey!" regalia. A celebration of one's own culture is fine, but the Orange Order defines itself by celebrating its culture's domination of another, which to me is belligerent and anachronistic. Orange Marches in areas where they're not wanted should be stamped out.

So stamp it out then, get your politicians To ban all orange lodges and pull down orange halls, hell why not go the full hog and actively imprision orange members. Proof to us northern Irish unionists / loyalists just how welcome we are in your country and how well we would be welcome in a dis united Ireland

steddyeddy

junder wrote: »

So stamp it out then, get your politicians To ban all orange lodges and pull down orange halls, hell why not go the full hog and actively imprision orange members. Proof to us northern Irish unionists / loyalists just how welcome we are in your country and how well we would be welcome in a dis united Ireland

If the Orange order is a sectarian organisation it wouldnt matter a bit if its a part of someones culture. A culture of hate doesnt have to be accepted by anyone.

sollar

junder wrote: »

So stamp it out then, get your politicians To ban all orange lodges and pull down orange halls, hell why not go the full hog and actively imprision orange members. Proof to us northern Irish unionists / loyalists just how welcome we are in your country and how well we would be welcome in a dis united Ireland

Overreaction.

Contentious, in your face, inflammatory orange marches are bad news. If its a family affair and a celebration of culture why go through areas where triumphalism and antagonism seems to be the order of the day.

pablomakaveli

junder wrote: »

So stamp it out then, get your politicians To ban all orange lodges and pull down orange halls, hell why not go the full hog and actively imprision orange members. Proof to us northern Irish unionists / loyalists just how welcome we are in your country and how well we would be welcome in a dis united Ireland

A bit OTT there but why should we accept a sectarian organization like the OO in this country especially when the majority of the people in the Republic meet the requirements for being disliked by OO members for simple being Irish and from Catholic backgrounds?

If loyalists/unionists feel the OO and the sectarianism that goes with it is an essential part of their identity than frankly i wouldnt welcome them into my country and it would be just another reason for me to oppose a united ireland because i would hate to have people like that as my fellow countrymen

KeithAFC

pablomakaveli wrote: »

A bit OTT there but why should we accept a sectarian organization like the OO in this country especially when the majority of the people in the Republic meet the requirements for being disliked by OO members for simple being Irish and from Catholic backgrounds?

If loyalists/unionists feel the OO and the sectarianism that goes with it is an essential part of their identity than frankly i wouldnt welcome them into my country and it would be just another reason for me to oppose a united ireland because i would hate to have people like that as my fellow countrymen

That post fills me with so much joy.

Gulliver

If, as has been pointed out, the marches are now more about the bands than the Order or sectarianism, why not join them? Get a load of green sashes and march along with them. To save the North from being closed down for other parades, have the St. Patrick's Day parade, the Gay Rights (maybe pink sashes!), the Chinese New Year-type parade (red sashes and a paper dragon), Travellers (with at least a few proper old style barrel caravans) and various other naturalised ethnicities too.

Can you imagine it? It could become the biggest multicultural parade in the world. This is assuming that the current parade isn't based on a culture of division and would allow this.