Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

realweirdo

schools rugby wrote: »

Mayo will struggle to win an All Ireland with the same 15. You need new players every year , Donegal tried to do it with the same 19 players used as last year and look where it got them. I guarantee Dublin will have a few new lads in next year to freshen things up

Fully agree. We need a half dozen scoring forwards in the squad. The contrast between the ability of the minors to kick accurate points from far out the field and the seniors who missed sitters was very stark. Dublin have brought along a lot of minors in recent years and it would be criminal if Mayo could not do the same particularly among the forwards.

There is an AI in this Mayo team but they have to learn from their mistakes and learn to take criticism on the chin. The problem is when someone dares to make that criticism people whinge about knee jerk reactions. That's just a recipe for more of the same.

realweirdo

yop wrote: »

Nah, every post on the GAA forum you have made has been negative towards Mayo. Your not a fan. Your just trying to rile people, so best you go chat about something you know about.

Not true. I've said there is an AI in this Mayo team. I've said we have great minors who need to be brought into the senior team. There are many positives for the future of Mayo football if the thing is handled right. There is no bigger fan than me and I don't question how much of a fan others are.

copacetic

Unlucky for Mayo yesterday, fans did you proud in Croke Park. Commiserated with a few at the end but knew that's not much good to anyone.

I wouldn't be so harsh on the team, Dublin went in to the game having played pretty well all year and with a team with 11 all Ireland winners. They still froze a bit on the day and failed to perform to their best, some of the young Dublin stars really got overawed. No-one here can know what it feels like to tog out from an all Ireland final with the pressure the players are under.

Dublins players were a little more in form going in and we had slightly better reserves which made the difference. Not having to find form on the day made the bigger difference in the forwards especially.

On a day when both teams didn't play their best there is often on,y a kick of the ball, a save or a decision that make the difference. It will go Mayos way eventually.

StewartGriffin

realweirdo wrote: »

If I thought you were intelligent enough I would go through the entire game and analyze it for you but you don't want that do you.

Ok, sure, I'll have a go. Please enlighten us with this full game analysis. (or is that just more empty rhetoric?)

Maybe the players and management might read it and learn a thing ot two from you.

Seriously, lets have it.

Syferus

Caff, Boyle, Keegan and Higgins are certs for All-Stars. Seamie O'Shea deserves one but politics means it's likely to be Cavanagh and MDM in the middle. COC still in with a live chance too, though he only slotted over simple enough frees yesterday.

theequaliser

Commiserations to Mayo fans on their heartbreak yesterday but it would appear to this neutral observor that the management made a mess of it again. The substitutions were 100% bad---where was Richie Feeney? Why was Aidan O' Shea left on the pitch?
Unfortunately poor leadership will never yield a winners medals in any walk of life.
Mayo need an outside manager, problem solved

km79

theequaliser wrote: »

Commiserations to Mayo fans on their heartbreak yesterday but it would appear to this neutral observor that the management made a mess of it again. The substitutions were 100% bad---where was Richie Feeney? Why was Aidan O' Shea left on the pitch?
Unfortunately poor leadership will never yield a winners medals in any walk of life.
Mayo need an outside manager, problem solved

Jack o Shea.....Mickey Moran.......
The team picked was good enough. Individual Players underperformed for one reason or another. Freeman's illness deprived us of our main ball winner and goal threat in Dublin's weakest area. I really feel its one that was left behind.......and that's why its hurts sooooooo much BUT we are by our nature optimistic people ......the team is young......need another forward or 2 ........mayo for Sam 14 :-)

realweirdo

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Ok, sure, I'll have a go. Please enlighten us with this full game analysis. (or is that just more empty rhetoric?)

Maybe the players and management might read it and learn a thing ot two from you.

Seriously, lets have it.

Ok, point 1 - The preparation of the Mayo team looked to be simply appalling.
The world and his dog knows Cluxton takes short kick outs and yet Mayo never got near one of them the entire game. This was Dublin's plan A and it looked like Mayo had no plan to counteract it. It played a major part in Dublins victory, ie, the winning of clean primary possession.

point 2 - the decision making of the forwards was appalling. poor shot selection, running into tackles, sloppy hand passing, unable to even master soloing.

point 3 - the decision making in letting the ball in early was appalling

point 4 - why was Freeman taken off, our one genuine target man who was capable of causing havoc in the dublin defence when the ball was let in - instead mayo brought on conroy and the ball was given to him in blind alleys out the wing.

point 5 - Dillon and McLoughlin were not up to it, this was obvious from about the 20th minute - both were off their game and should have been brought off - in contrast Freeman looked a genuine danger and has a proven record of getting goals.

point 6 - mayo were lacking in the basics - even Horan admitted this - 3 years into his reign and we are still lacking the basics - seriously..this is unforgivable.

point 7 - the timewasting by Mayo players killed the game - usually it should be the other way around.

point 8 - the decision by O'Connor to go for a point instead of a goal defies belief. The ref told him 30 seconds were left. Given it takes 15 seconds to take a kickout at least, did he expect Mayo to score a point in 15 seconds? This was just school boy stuff.

I could go on and on about other issues.

My fundamental point is the team were sent out on the field unprepared. There was no plan B. The decision making of players was poor and its the one of the jobs of top managers to turn players into better decision makers. I know you won't agree with this point. We shouldn't be making basic mistakes in AI finals, well prepared teams don't do that.

Sorry for being so negative and I know I will be attacked for being negative. I saw a game yesterday we should have won. There is no curse or supernatural reason for Mayo losing. Its quite clear to me why we keep losing, poor tactical decisions which the manager must take responsibility for.

jmayo

Have to say fair dues to the minors.
They richly deserved it as they played some of the best football all year.
And they have some real sweet forwards who can do the business.

Stoner wrote: »

Great stuff. It wasn't a great game, but bar the Mayo backs being so good everything else turned on its head.

I full expect this mayo team to win All Ireland titles.

Sorry but I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room.
We do not have the forwards and expecting Keegan, Boyle, Higgins, Vaughan, etc to carry the load coming from defense is too much to ask.

Dillion at best now is a squad player and was nowhere yesterday.
How he lasted so long is testament to a management failing.
McLoughlin should have been subbed very early.
He missed two good chances and telegraphed some of his passes so much a blind man would have intercepted them.
Conroy exhibited the old failing of wildly huffing the ball miles wide when he should never have taken the shot.
That one incident was writing on the wall and harked back to other All Irelands lost.
Carolon, Doherty added nothing.
I don't think Freeman can't be relied upon.
Now I know he was supposed to have flu so could explain a few things yesterday.

O'Connor playing showed two things.
Firstly it showed his committment, but it also highlighted how little depth there is in forwards available.
My only complaint from yesterday about him is he should have got a move on for the last free and not bloody taken 40 secs to slot it over.

Fair dues to Andy Moran who made a huge recovery after last year, but to me he looks slower.
A lot of people before yesterday were calling for him not be on, but I thought he played well and gave it everything.
And to have done it a year after that terrble injury is even more remarkable.

But it all boils down to the fact we simply do not have the forwards and expecting the rest of the team to carry them is a bit much.
And it wasn't just yesterday.
It happened against Tyrone and it took the backs to show the way.

Every team that wins an All Ireland have a couple of forwards that can really deliver when the pressure comes on.
We had too many passengers and another year probably won't change that.

The one plus is that a few of the minors look class, but can they be developed into senior players is the question and will there be enough of the curent senior panel midfield/backline around by then.

Will the team be back next year ?
I doubt it.
Everyone is saying how you never see a team winning it back to back because of the committment, intensity, etc.
It would be expecting even more to expect the runners up to make it 3 three times in a row.
That is a huge ask.

km79

The only decision I really strongly disagree with was to take Moran off. It left us devoid of on field leadership which proved vital for the last free......

realweirdo

Well said jmayo and nice to see an in depth analytical post. We need to address our many failings otherwise it will be more of the same next year.

MayoForSam

At least I won't have to be changing my username

realweirdo

realweirdo wrote: »

Not true. I've said there is an AI in this Mayo team. I've said we have great minors who need to be brought into the senior team. There are many positives for the future of Mayo football if the thing is handled right. There is no bigger fan than me and I don't question how much of a fan others are.

A number of our forwards should not be in the panel, they cost us an All Ireland last year and the same ones flopped again this year. I don't remember dillon having one shot all game, he spent the game running into the corner, he offers nothing anymore. Most of our backs are better forwards that our forwards(Vaughan, Higgins, Barrett, Boyle, Keegan all can shoot better than our forwards), at this stage i'd much prefer to seeing Barrett playing in Dillons position than dillon himself. The minor forwards have much more bottle than some of the seniors.

Why Horan took off Freeman i'd love to know, he was a threat the whole time he was there. Feeney on the bench while Mcloughlin and Dillion where absolutly shocking from the first few minutes ??

Horan had no plan to counteract cluxtens kickouts and was found badly wanting again. I suspect if Dillion was not from the same club as Horan he would already have been dropped. Would love to see Mcstay come in as i suspect he is more tactically aware, keep the existing backroom staff.

realweirdo

Fully agree re Dillon. He offers nothing in AI finals. He's ok in Connacht and against average teams but offers nothing in AI finals.

I thought the minors were impressive yesterday and put the seniors to shame. They are a great bunch of lads and if handled the right way are the makings of an outstanding senior team. Dublin have been able to bring many of theirs through at the age of 19 or 20, so there is no reason we can't. If these minor players are allowed to drift into the wilderness it will be criminal.

I also would like to see McStay brought in.

SomethingElse

I think James Horan has done fantastically well in his spell as Mayo manager. Walking out of the Croke Park last year I could have no complaints, Mayo gave it their all and on the day came up against a top class Donegal side. That said, I thought yesterday the players were let down by the management. They looked clueless at times, without leadership, and they looked at a loss as of how to deal with Dublin's tactics. The short kick-outs won every time by Dublin were baffling to me. How Horan didn't have a plan to deal with this is beyond comprehension. If it had been something that Dublin introduced for the first time yesterday we wouldn't have been any worse equiped to deal with it. Last year James Horan publically criticised Kevin Keane after his mistakes in the final. This year I think Horan himself has questions to answer. The preparations for the game and the substitutions look to have been sub-par. Calls for his head may be a little extreme but I do think he needs to have a sit down with the county board and assess his position and how they can move forward. Perhaps the addition of a more tactically astute member to the coaching setup could reap rewards.

Maigh Eo Abú

You have to give credit to the back 9 of Mayo + A Moran. They got to within one point of Dublin while withstanding attack after attack from Dublin.

The Mayo forwards allowed the Dublin backs to run out of defense unchallenged and also managed to keep losing the ball when they got it, effectively stopping the Mayo scoring half backs from moving forward.

I suspect we probably have close to the best back 9 in the country and its them i really feel sorry for, most of the rest were just passengers.

There has to be one or two mayo forwards playing for some club in Ireland, Oz, Uk or USA that can help us win an All Ireland.

stooge

Deleted User wrote: »

You have to give credit to the back 9 of Mayo + A Moran. They got to within one point of Dublin while withstanding attack after attack from Dublin.

The Mayo forwards allowed the Dublin backs to run out of defense unchallenged and also managed to keep losing the ball when they got it, effectively stopping the Mayo scoring half backs from moving forward.

I suspect we probably have close to the best back 9 in the country and its them i really feel sorry for, most of the rest were just passengers.

There has to be one or two mayo forwards playing for some club in Ireland, Oz, Uk or USA that can help us win an All Ireland.

Agree, your full/half forward lines were non-existant in terms of a first line of defence. The midfield were overrun and that gave your backs way too much to do. Though that a couple of your subs, although quite talented were a bit panicked and inexperienced. The first 20mins Mayo missed way too many frees and were slow to start after half time. On the other hand, dublin stuck in there after the initial onslaught, and were more experienced and calm when it came to the business end of the game.

WesternZulu

Watched the highlights there again after being at the match yesterday.

The more that I think of it the more I think that Keith Higgins having to move back to the back line had a major bearing on the game.
Mayo's forward line seemed completey disjointed after he went back.

Freeman going off to was a big loss, Mayo then had no one to play the full forward role effectively.

Fr Tod Umptious

I have realised that I have built up some strange immunity to this

I walked out of that place straight after the final whistle without looking back, and it seemed no different to any other time, be it a single point loss or a hammering.

What saddens me most though is the stream of Mayo folk walking back from the ground, no talking, no smiling, no happiness, in such glorious sunshine.

All year I have said that if they do not win it now they will not be back for 6 or 7 years, they will not be able to reproduce the intensity etc for yet another year.

But in the hours since the game I have started to question that, it's mainly because 2014 is all we have look forward to now and I'm rather be optimistic about it than anything else

2014 is not going to be a vintage year for football
There is not a whole lot of quality out there
Munster - both Cork and Kerry or no longer real challengers and a number of retirements will hurt Kerry
Ulster - You may see the emergence of Cavan or Monaghan, Donegal may be in turmoil over the Gallagher stuff and Jimmy spending more time in Glasgow.
Tyrone will improve but not to the extent that they will be a real contender
Leinster - Dublin obviously, but back to back All Irelands is a huge ask and even more so with the same manager
Apart from them may be Meath or a young Kildare with a new manager will be dark horses
In Connaught I believe that Mayo have to travel to NY therefore the earliest they could meet Galway will be in the SF and that will be in Castlebar.
And I don't think there is anyone to really challenge them yet in Connaught

Connaught play Munster in the SF so that could very well be Mayo v God knows who.

What they need for the immediate future is the belief that they are still a top team that are still real contenders and with a bit more work they can win it, they are hardly miles away from it, they just need to keep improving.

And they also need a slice of luck, in the sense that 20 odd minutes in you do not loose the MOTM of the SF to injury (I assume Freeman was injured cos he was not playing bad) and you have to replace him with a guy who has hardly seen the field all season
You need the luck of staying injury free, not have you top scorer playing with one arm, or an All Star midfielder out for the season
And you need to have the luck of having an opponent that has fallen arse backwards into the final, I'm talking Mayo '04 and '06 or Down '10, teams that are good but not top two, Mayo need to get to a final where the opposition are not some juggernaut like Dublin, Donegal 2012, or Kerry in the '00s

If Horan and co can convince them that they are close, and if he believes it himself, and if they can keep the likes of Buckley on board, then I think there may just be a chance again for 2014

Well done to the minors by the way, at least a cup is on it's way to Mayo after 6 final defeats.

I looked despondently at my flag fluttering in the wind outside the house when i got home to Kerry last night, and then a smile came to my face when I remembered that it was representing the All Ireland Minor Champions 2013

Fr Tod Umptious

WesternZulu wrote: »

Watched the highlights there again after being at the match yesterday.

The more that I think of it the more I think that Keith Higgins having to move back to the back line had a major bearing on the game.
Mayo's forward line seemed completey disjointed after he went back.

Freeman going off to was a big loss, Mayo then had no one to play the full forward role effectively.

With that in mind would you do the following going forward in 2014
Keep Higgins at 11
Keep Barrett at 4,
Drop McLoughlin to the half backs, he is originally from there I believe
Bring Keegan to half forward line, that was tried in the league
Start Carolan instead of Dillion

McLoughlin was not great this year, a move back may help him, and Keegan loves to go forward, why use a back to do that when he could do it as a forward

cocoman

Gerry91 wrote: »

Right going to give this a go

Fair play to the boys. Since sept last year their eyes all fixated on Sam and this was the year in their eyes I believe.

What a year. From demolishing the old enemy to annihilating Donegal. Constantly believed this was the year. Shed a tear in the canal after the match, for the first time in croker. A young man cried in front of me and said to his father in a moment of brief recovery "will it ever happen dad"?

While it's easy to agree, call me a fool but I believe at all times and I BELIEVE mayo can do it next year. The time to show our support is now. When the team is felling down we pick them up. Jimmy may not hang around (:() but believe me the team will be busting their holes come about November with one thing in mind

I'd go into what went wrong but it surely has been done to death (avoided all soc media incredibly)

Now is when they need our belief. We've made two finals in two Years. This was not meant to happen. This was the year. I'm still hoping il wake up. But look I believe in the lads and once they believe in themselves and don't bloody let this get to them they'll become AI champs. As Andy said just look at Murray! A lesson to all. Mayo for Sam 14. Believe!!!

Well said Gerry. We'll be back. We're Mayo

MaroonAndGreen

1989, 1996 (twice), 1997, 2004, 2006, 2012 & 2013.

Its hard to keep picking yourself up again and again, but we have to. This is a golden team, a golden generation, these are the boys that have to do it. God knows when we will get a crop of lads like this again.

Delighted that Horan is staying on. It would have been some blow if he was to resign now, there are (at least) 2 more massive years in this team.

The only question is, can the boys come back with the same desire, hunger, passion, effort and intensity again?

Honest answer, I dont know. Time will tell.

Im utterly proud of the lads, and proud of the county.

Well done to the Minors, shame for them that their victory has been overshadowed by Senior defeat.

We need to keep believing.

Maigh Eo Abu

GBXI

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I have realised that I have built up some strange immunity to this

I walked out of that place straight after the final whistle without looking back, and it seemed no different to any other time, be it a single point loss or a hammering.

What saddens me most though is the stream of Mayo folk walking back from the ground, no talking, no smiling, no happiness, in such glorious sunshine.

All year I have said that if they do not win it now they will not be back for 6 or 7 years, they will not be able to reproduce the intensity etc for yet another year.

But in the hours since the game I have started to question that, it's mainly because 2014 is all we have look forward to now and I'm rather be optimistic about it than anything else

2014 is not going to be a vintage year for football
There is not a whole lot of quality out there
Munster - both Cork and Kerry or no longer real challengers and a number of retirements will hurt Kerry
Ulster - You may see the emergence of Cavan or Monaghan, Donegal may be in turmoil over the Gallagher stuff and Jimmy spending more time in Glasgow.
Tyrone will improve but not to the extent that they will be a real contender
Leinster - Dublin obviously, but back to back All Irelands is a huge ask and even more so with the same manager
Apart from them may be Meath or a young Kildare with a new manager will be dark horses
In Connaught I believe that Mayo have to travel to NY therefore the earliest they could meet Galway will be in the SF and that will be in Castlebar.
And I don't think there is anyone to really challenge them yet in Connaught

Connaught play Munster in the SF so that could very well be Mayo v God knows who.

What they need for the immediate future is the belief that they are still a top team that are still real contenders and with a bit more work they can win it, they are hardly miles away from it, they just need to keep improving.

And they also need a slice of luck, in the sense that 20 odd minutes in you do not loose the MOTM of the SF to injury (I assume Freeman was injured cos he was not playing bad) and you have to replace him with a guy who has hardly seen the field all season
You need the luck of staying injury free, not have you top scorer playing with one arm, or an All Star midfielder out for the season
And you need to have the luck of having an opponent that has fallen arse backwards into the final, I'm talking Mayo '04 and '06 or Down '10, teams that are good but not top two, Mayo need to get to a final where the opposition are not some juggernaut like Dublin, Donegal 2012, or Kerry in the '00s

If Horan and co can convince them that they are close, and if he believes it himself, and if they can keep the likes of Buckley on board, then I think there may just be a chance again for 2014

Well done to the minors by the way, at least a cup is on it's way to Mayo after 6 final defeats.

I looked despondently at my flag fluttering in the wind outside the house when i got home to Kerry last night, and then a smile came to my face when I remembered that it was representing the All Ireland Minor Champions 2013

Just to make one point on the match. While Dublin deserved their win, I am of the opinion that had Freeman been able to stay on there is a very strong possibility we would have one. Firstly, he started very well and looked to have the beating of O'Carroll. Secondly, his form/confidence coming into the game was very high (as said above - MOTM in semi-final). Thirdly, and crucially, we didn't have anyone of his class to replace him with. Our FF line lacked that height and physical presence that Freeman has. Huge, huge loss.

Hope to God Horan stays on. Definitely an AI in that team.

realweirdo

I'd be deeply pessimistic if Horan stays on for many of the reasons mentioned before. He's tactically naive. That won't change overnight and it probably won't change ever. You can't win an AI if the manager keeps screwing things up as much as Horan has. I'd love to be proved wrong but I've been playing and following GAA too long to know a poor tactician when I see one.

Godge

GBXI wrote: »

Just to make one point on the match. While Dublin deserved their win, I am of the opinion that had Freeman been able to stay on there is a very strong possibility we would have one. Firstly, he started very well and looked to have the beating of O'Carroll. Secondly, his form/confidence coming into the game was very high (as said above - MOTM in semi-final). Thirdly, and crucially, we didn't have anyone of his class to replace him with. Our FF line lacked that height and physical presence that Freeman has. Huge, huge loss.

Hope to God Horan stays on. Definitely an AI in that team.

Dublin lost Mannion and Cooper to injury.

O'Carroll and O'Gara were on the field for the last ten minutes but couldn't run and would have been taken off if there had still been subs available.

McMahon and O'Sullivan both spent time of the pitch being treated for injury.

So six players for Dublin with various injuries versus one for Mayo. If anything the injury luck was with Mayo.

Still and all, best of luck next year.

keeponhurling

Surprised at the criticism of Horan really.

Mayo's 1 to 9 have really become top class under his leadership.

The forwards (A.Moran aside) were poor, but you can only work with what you have. O'Connor couldn't have been fully fit, and at 21 can only get better.
Freeman is a key player, went off injured early (I assume).
Dillon had a bad day, McLaughlin wasn't great and left his shooting boots at home.

Not sure what Horan could have done. He took off Dillon.
Conroy, Varley and Doherty were all brought on.

GBXI

Godge wrote: »

Dublin lost Mannion and Cooper to injury.

O'Carroll and O'Gara were on the field for the last ten minutes but couldn't run and would have been taken off if there had still been subs available.

McMahon and O'Sullivan both spent time of the pitch being treated for injury.

So six players for Dublin with various injuries versus one for Mayo. If anything the injury luck was with Mayo.

Still and all, best of luck next year.

I'm genuinely not trying to take away from Dublin's win here (again deserving winners), but making the point that very few have mentioned - Freeman was a huge loss for Mayo.

Mannion's loss was a blessing in disguise for Dublin (he hadn't started well and O'Gara was very effective when he came on).

Cooper just isn't one of Dublin's main players so I don't see that as been a big deal. We lost Cunniffe at HT meaning we had to move our best half-forward back into corner back.

Losing Freeman after 20mins for us would have been like Dublin losing Bernard Brogan after 20mins.

GBXI

realweirdo wrote: »

I'd be deeply pessimistic if Horan stays on for many of the reasons mentioned before. He's tactically naive. That won't change overnight and it probably won't change ever. You can't win an AI if the manager keeps screwing things up as much as Horan has. I'd love to be proved wrong but I've been playing and following GAA too long to know a poor tactician when I see one.

Tactically naive my bum! You don't get to an AI semi and 2 final's being tactically naive.

As has been said by many (obviously more balanced viewers) Horan, Gavin, and McGuinness are the 3 best managers in Ireland. Look at what they have done with their teams.

starskey77

why didnt oshea go full forward for the last ten mins

realweirdo

GBXI wrote: »

Tactically naive my bum! You don't get to an AI semi and 2 final's being tactically naive.

As has been said by many (obviously more balanced viewers) Horan, Gavin, and McGuinness are the 3 best managers in Ireland. Look at what they have done with their teams.

Every year there are only 3 or 4 teams with a genuine chance of winning. It so happens Mayo have been in that bracket the last two years. We have the quality in the county but we didn't have the quality on the field. I litterly could spend hours detailing Horan's shortcomings but if you feel like it, you could read back over my previous posts. I'm not alone in feeling this way or that he has brought the team as far as he can.

There is no AI in this team with Horan as manager, fullstop. Steamrolling divison 4 teams or teams who play like division 4 teams is no longer the standard. Galway and Donegal were very poor this year. Tyrone are in transition and lost key players. They will be back next year though. There was never a better chance for a Mayo team to win an AI. It was practically handed on a plate to us yesterday and then Horan made a complete balls of it as did most of the forwards.

They aren't children, they need to stop making excuses and man up about their own failures. Anyone who thinks Horan did well yesterday or the forwards did well weren't watching the same game. They need to stop burying their heads in the sand, for the good of Mayo football.

Horan is a poor tactician, that's fairly obvious and like I said there is no AI in this team while he's around. There may well be AI finals which may keep the likes of you happy.