Round 09 - British Grand Prix

amacachi

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And typical f*****g Eddie Jordan justifying it as well and he was slagging off Ferrari last year and asking stupid questions of Stefano Domenicali in the pits, wanker.

aaronh007 wrote: »

Good for Mark, I'd be sick of the Vettel is #1 and you can't try and pass him. He's in his last year of contract... what can they do? Fire him?

aaronh007 wrote: »

That's because it was against the rules last year. He's always been for team orders, only when it's illegal he has an issue with it.

Last year team orders were illegal and a lot of Jordan's annoyance was at the fact the orders were illegal. The issue isn't whether or not Horner did the right thing it's the hypocrisy he's shown.

BlaasForRafa

aaronh007 wrote: »

That's because it was against the rules last year. He's always been for team orders, only when it's illegal he has an issue with it.

No, its because he's a slimy turd thats always hated Ferrari, he takes every opportunity he can to slag them off.

wobbles

What ferrari did last yeat was illegal according to the rules of that year. It gave the team an unfair advantage over the other teams. What red bull did today was completly legal. Im with EJ on this one. People are only making a big deal about it because its webber/vettel.

Grim.

amacachi wrote: »

So Vettel still hasn't grown up?

think its obvious that he has this year but webber is desperate to beat him and all it would take is a lunge or locked brakes to end both their races with one lap to go not worth the risk imo and, tbh weber has sealed his faith for this season by being crap at the start of the year.

amacachi

Grim. wrote: »

think its obvious that he has this year but webber is desperate to beat him and all it would take is a lunge or locked brakes to end both their races with one lap to go not worth the risk imo and, tbh weber has sealed his faith for this season by being crap at the start of the year.

If Vettel's that worried then he should get out of the way.

Autosport

wobbles wrote: »

What ferrari did last yeat was illegal according to the rules of that year. It gave the team an unfair advantage over the other teams. What red bull did today was completly legal. Im with EJ on this one. People are only making a big deal about it because its webber/vettel.

I agree but why couldnt they have let them race each other, Mclaren allow it

Grim.

and iirc mclaren gave the same order in turkey last year aswell

Autosport

Grim. wrote: »

and iirc mclaren gave the same order in turkey last year aswell

This year they allow it

Cookie_Monster

wobbles wrote: »

What ferrari did last yeat was illegal according to the rules of that year. It gave the team an unfair advantage over the other teams. What red bull did today was completly legal. Im with EJ on this one. People are only making a big deal about it because its webber/vettel.

no, it's because RB always say there's no team orders there, and then suddenly there are when it suits them for Vettel. Webber is clearly no2 there, I just wish RB would admit it and stop being so ****ing obtuse about it.

cadaliac

Autosport wrote: »

I agree but why couldnt they have let them race each other, Mclaren allow it

+1
This is the point why orders are crap.

wobbles

Autosport wrote: »

I agree but why couldnt they have let them race each other, Mclaren allow it

And Hamiliton nearly took them both out in Canada. Red bull dont want a repeat of what happened last year when they came together. They got a lot of bad publicity from it, plus losing a butt-load of points

amacachi

Grim. wrote: »

and iirc mclaren gave the same order in turkey last year aswell

After they had swapped places twice. "SAVE FUEL! SAVE FUEL!" :pac:

Glico Man

Autosport wrote: »

I agree but why couldnt they have let them race each other, Mclaren allow it

Ferrari don't let their drivers race each other either. Considering what can happen e.g. Webber/Vettel at Turkey you can understand why they don't.

But, it really takes away from the racing when the chasing driver is told to conserve fuel or maintain the gap or whatever. Pile of **** you could say...

Autosport

wobbles wrote: »

And Hamiliton nearly took them both out in Canada. Red bull dont want a repeat of what happened last year when they came together. They got a lot of bad publicity from it, plus losing a butt-load of points

But isnt that bad/stupid driving???

Cookie_Monster

also watching the Massa / Hamilton incident, Massa clearly ahead before the corner and online, def Hami should have yielded and caused that crash by not doing so. Def penalty IMO

Grim.

Autosport wrote: »

But isnt that bad/stupid driving???

no its ego

amacachi

aaronh007 wrote: »

Ferrari don't let their drivers race each other either. Considering what can happen e.g. Webber/Vettel at Turkey you can understand why they don't.

But, it really takes away from the racing when the chasing driver is told to conserve fuel or maintain the gap or whatever. Pile of **** you could say...

Again the problem is Horner's "No team orders at Red Bull"shit.

Glico Man

amacachi wrote: »

Again the problem is Horner's "No team orders at Red Bull"shit.

I'm not saying... and I don't think I've said otherwise.

Stop picking on me! :pac:

Grim.

i agree about the hypocracy but i can see why it was done

kierank01

I haven't been following this thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned before.

Martin said at the start of the race, that it was not officially a wet race/track, so how were the top ten able to use inters rather than what they qualified on?
Also they didn't use the hard tyre during the race. Isn't this against the rules?

cadaliac

Eddie Jordan is a fool.
What soul searching do Mclaren have to do? A mistake in the pits, yes, and the other driver from 10th to 4th??
FFS eddie - shut up. You annoy me.

amacachi

kierank01 wrote: »

I haven't been following this thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned before.

Martin said at the start of the race, that it was not officially a wet race/track, so how were the top ten able to use inters rather than what they qualified on?
Also they didn't use the hard tyre during the race. Isn't this against the rules?

As far as I know they have to use any two different tyres during the race so they're ok. Being declared a Wet Race would, I assume, mean they are allowed only use one type of tyre on safety grounds.

kierank01

amacachi wrote: »

As far as I know they have to use any two different tyres during the race so they're ok. Being declared a Wet Race would, I assume, mean they are allowed only use one type of tyre on safety grounds.

Ok, so how were the top ten allowed to use inters rather than the tyres that they used on their fastest lap in qualifying?

amacachi

kierank01 wrote: »

Ok, so how were the top ten allowed to use inters rather than the tyres that they used on their fastest lap in qualifying?

Fair point!

amacachi

What's everyone make of the Schumacher penalty? I thought it was a little harsh as he didn't seem to be going for an overtake as such, just a different line and understeered.

Cookie_Monster

Eddie's shirt:

Myrddin

Good race. Delighted for Alonso, bit gutted for Button & Webber though.

Firstly, again, its so difficult to concentrate on the racing/strategy when you've two hours of Coulthard laughing at his own 'jokes', stating the obvious, & quite clearly displaying his own personal bias for/against teams drivers. His schoolyard sniggering today at 'Michael' was worse than ever, & disagreeing when Brundle said that Vettel losing 1st place was a good thing (for the spectact of racing, i.e. the viewers). The man, in my own personal opinion, is a ridiculous choice as commentator for what should be a high-octane, passionate role. Hearing Murray Walker yesterday again reminded me of both how much a professional he was (is), and how unsuited to the role DC is. For me, Walker instantly got my attention & despite having intricate knowledge & years of experience, he never lets his own bias cloud both his commentary or his presentation. At almost 90 years of age, he is still the man for the job alongside Brundle.

Now, enough of DC. Button could have had a great day today, & again, displayed 'uncharacteristic' overtaking skill & ability today in actual racing conditions. His pass on Alonso was brilliant, & I still can't see Vettel pulling something like that off. Button on the surface may appear as the playboy racer with cheesy comments etc, but if you look past that, he's actually a superb racer with more skill than he's given credit for. He was deprived of a great result today I feel.

Webber, as much as I like him, I think he's pyschologically a beaten man when it comes to Vettel. When he's in a 1 on 1 scenario with Vettel, he goes into it expecting the worst, and naturally thats what happens. He's a clear number 2 driver now, and I think he's even starting to believe that himself. Yes he could have got Vettel today but again something happened to favour Vettle over Webber, which it normally does. In that repsect, having Webberbehind Vettel, only plays further into Vettels hands, because for anyone else trying a move on Webber, Webber won't have that psycholgical block & seems to come back out of his shell & defends/drives better again. But again, when it comes to racing Vettel, I believe he's beaten even before he puts his overalls on.

Vettel, some good driving by him today. A few clean passes, nothing that really challenged him though as usual. I believe Alsonso would have caught and overtook him regardless of the pit stop incident though. He was always going to finish ahead of Webber though.

Hamilton, impressive charge in the early part of the race. Clean, precise racing which reminded me of why I rate(ed) him highly. Unfortunately, again under pressure, his tone to his engineer was far too 'diva-like', which today has become more & more prevailent in Hamilton. And towards the end his brutal & wreckless 'defense' on Massa was not the defending of a world champion. Hamilton thinks there's problems at Mclaren...I think Mclaren have problems with Hamilton though. He needs a kick in the arse, & to be reminded he's not needed for them to win races.

Alonso the driver of the day for me. He's the best driver on the grid without doubt, & I wouldn't consider myself a fan of his really. But he has it all, proper racing presence on the track, speed, channeled aggression, defense, overtaking is 2nd to none...he's still outdriving that Ferrari...put him in that RB & you'll see the difference between him & Vettel.

Red Bull, while team orders are legal again & there's no issue with that. Hats off to the BBC guy who interviewed Horner (name slipped my mind), he put all the right questions out & got nothing but coprporate bollox back from Horner. Webber isn't out of this years title race, but not allowed race for it against a struggling car with issues? Ok.

Voodu Child

amacachi wrote: »

What's everyone make of the Schumacher penalty? I thought it was a little harsh as he didn't seem to be going for an overtake as such, just a different line and understeered.

I think this thing of giving a penalty for every collision is ridiculous and it'll ruin F1 if it continues. There's some collisions that need a penalty, obviously deliberate or malicious ones, or stupid driving.

But if it's just a locked brake or misjudging a gap, that's racing and it should be left alone.

amacachi

EnterNow wrote: »

Now, enough of DC. Button could have had a great day today, & again, displayed 'uncharacteristic' overtaking skill & ability today in actual racing conditions. His pass on Alonso was brilliant, & I still can't see Vettel pulling something like that off. Button on the surface may appear as the playboy racer with cheesy comments etc, but if you look past that, he's actually a superb racer with more skill than he's given credit for. He was deprived of a great result today I feel.

It's one of those annoying things where it was one of his best performances in a while after a slow start and didn't get a result to mark it. He was on for 3rd/4th with his tyres lasting much better than Hamilton's. It was funny too to see how Button was very little quicker than Alonso when he overtook him while Vettel tends to have a coupla seconds a lap in hand when overtaking someone.

Vettel, some good driving by him today. A few clean passes, nothing that really challenged him though as usual. I believe Alsonso would have caught and overtook him regardless of the pit stop incident though. He was always going to finish ahead of Webber though.

It's such a pity he has such a big lead in the championship already because today and Canada both showed he's fallible. He and/or his team have a habit of doing the bare minimum and with his lead in the championship they can afford to drop a place or two in every race. If the title were closer then they'd have to be pushing a lot harder. Today their conservatism cost them the race IMO but they don't need to worry about that.

Hamilton, impressive charge in the early part of the race. Clean, precise racing which reminded me of why I rate(ed) him highly. Unfortunately, again under pressure, his tone to his engineer was far too 'diva-like', which today has become more & more prevailent in Hamilton. And towards the end his brutal & wreckless 'defense' on Massa was not the defending of a world champion. Hamilton thinks there's problems at Mclaren...I think Mclaren have problems with Hamilton though. He needs a kick in the arse, & to be reminded he's not needed for them to win races.

Ever watch Indycar? Would love to see him there with the fuel-saving. :pac: That said, it seems to be an issue with more drivers than just him Massa recently enough instead of slowing by a second a lap and dropping a place didn't slow enough and lost about 5-6 seconds a lap towards the end and lost a few places.

Alonso the driver of the day for me. He's the best driver on the grid without doubt, & I wouldn't consider myself a fan of his really. But he has it all, proper racing presence on the track, speed, channeled aggression, defense, overtaking is 2nd to none...he's still outdriving that Ferrari...put him in that RB & you'll see the difference between him & Vettel.

Wish I'd put a tenner on him for the title before today's race.

Red Bull, while team orders are legal again & there's no issue with that. Hats off to the BBC guy who interviewed Horner (name slipped my mind), he put all the right questions out & got nothing but coprporate bollox back from Horner. Webber isn't out of this years title race, but not allowed race for it against a struggling car with issues? Ok.

Ted Kravitz, was surprised at his tone and happy with him. :P

Autosport

Anyone watchig the Forum??? cant wait for Horner to get there