Physical violence against men in the Irish media...

Bottle_of_Smoke

Galvasean wrote: »

You'll find these 'have a go heroes' only side with the woman in the hope that she will reciprocate with sex. They aren't gents.

Yup, that and also if she isn't going to reciprocate they get to show off being the hero if others are watching

Bottle_of_Smoke

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Yup, that and also if she isn't going to reciprocate they get to show off being the hero if others are watching

Yeah, that's it.
The real gents are just watching the action, lad in hand.

krudler

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 and there are usually way more options to cooling down a situation than coming across all fisty and macho.

I'm pretty sure fisting someone could defuse any situation.

citytillidie

Just reminds me of this video by ABC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGZIQaCaW0I

There was one girl who walked past and was celebrating.

It is a big double standard and nothing will be done about it until the media tv and films treat it more seriously.

The only ones who stood up for the guy were a group of woman who tried to stop it and even called the police

Maguined

Deleted User wrote: »

Regardless of who started the fight, or whomever is the aggressor, I would prefer to try and separate the two.

I really don't believe the majority of guys would be thinking that breaking up a couple fighting would end with them getting their hole. It can potentially end with both the guy and the girl turning on whomever is trying to help.

Ah but Galvasean did not say the majority of guys would do this, he is talking about a very specific situation and a very specific group of men that react a specific way and labelled them "have a go heroes". The majority of men would probably not get involved, however in the very specific situation of a night out and a woman being aggressive and abusive towards a man, a man who did not initiate any aggression I would have to agree with Galva that if the man then tries to defend himself frequently these "have a go heroes" jump in to attack the man. These guys did not jump in to defend the guy when the woman was attacking him unprovoked, they were quite happy to sit back and let it happen, it only becomes an issue if the man has to resort to physically defend himself and then they dive in to "protect" the woman who was the aggressor in the first place.

It is not an extremely common situation that happens every night out, however I would not say it is extremely uncommon either as I have witnessed it myself a good few times.

Coriolanus

WindSock wrote: »

Can't see how stitching a loaf to someone has much to do with equality. I could never do it to someone who is obviously weaker than me. Hitting someone back is not so much self defence as retaliation...if an elderly person slapped me for example, my first reaction would not be to hit them back, or headbutt them...

This tbh. A woman hitting me a slap would get the same reaction that a man who was smaller, slighter framed, with lower muscle mass than me would get.

Logical Fallacy

I don't watch True Blood, but this is an interesting occurance that seems to fit the bill for this thread.

Basically a male character is drugged and raped by a female character and assorted news folk refer to it as a "sex scene" and the shows writers describe it as the male character getting his "comeupance" as he was a bit of a womaniser.

I can't really see a male character raping a female character and the writers admitting it's a punishment rape going down to well in the media.

http://bitchmagazine.org/post/true-blood-werepanther-rape

Fremen

Well, this is pretty interesting. There's a thread in after hours about a man in the US who got his penis cut off.

I know AH doesn't quite qualify as "the media", but I figure it's close enough for the purposes of this thread.

Crime threads in AH bother me because usually, all you get for the first few pages are revenge fantasists dreaming up tortures for the accused. There have been forty odd comments so far on this particular incident, and I'd say 80-90 per cent of them are jokes. I think it really demonstrates the public perception that violence against men is ok, or at least nothing to get worked up about.

Can you imagine the pitchfork-waving rabble that would have been stirred up if it were male on female violence of a similar type?

Logical Fallacy

Fremen wrote: »

Well, this is pretty interesting. There's a thread in after hours about a man in the US who got his penis cut off.

I know AH doesn't quite qualify as "the media", but I figure it's close enough for the purposes of this thread.

Crime threads in AH bother me because usually, all you get for the first few pages are revenge fantasists dreaming up tortures for the accused. There have been forty odd comments so far on this particular incident, and I'd say 80-90 per cent of them are jokes. I think it really demonstrates the public perception that violence against men is ok, or at least nothing to get worked up about.

Can you imagine the pitchfork-waving rabble that would have been stirred up if it were male on female violence of a similar type?

Even look at one of the posts in the thread about Oprah having a woman on her show who did the same and it was all smiles and laughs. If a man who sexually mutilated a woman was on the show he would be treated as nothing but the scumbag he is.

Double standards bull****.

py2006

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I don't watch True Blood, but this is an interesting occurance that seems to fit the bill for this thread.

Basically a male character is drugged and raped by a female character and assorted news folk refer to it as a "sex scene" and the shows writers describe it as the male character getting his "comeupance" as he was a bit of a womaniser.

I can't really see a male character raping a female character and the writers admitting it's a punishment rape going down to well in the media.

http://bitchmagazine.org/post/true-blood-werepanther-rape

Wow that is shocking. On its own I am not too put off by it but then that is not the point. Male rape is acceptable entertainment apparently! :rolleyes:

um7y1h83ge06nx

I was out Monday night with a friend and we had a few drinks.

We sort of naturally fell out of touch for a few years and linked up again a year and a half ago. In between college and now he was seeing a girl for two years.

He mentioned it once but we talked more the last night about how the ex used to hit him when she got mad. He admitted he used to take the abuse because "I loved her".

It got me thinking about what I would do. My girlfriend is 5ft, 5ft1 and is very petite, think Kylie Minogue type of frame. Now I told him if she hit me there would be trouble. Of course, I wouldn't hit her back but she would be told to f**k off and leave straight away. It's not the physical pain because she's so petite, she wouldn't really hurt me, it would be the fact that she would have decided it was an acceptable act. And that's the thing. Even if most women can't really cause major physical pain by throwing a punch or a slap, it the fact it's just thuggish behaviour.

I can't believe he put up with it.

py2006

Yusuf Fancy Soup wrote: »

I was out Monday night with a friend and we had a few drinks.

We sort of naturally fell out of touch for a few years and linked up again a year and a half ago. In between college and now he was seeing a girl for two years.

He mentioned it once but we talked more the last night about how the ex used to hit him when she got mad. He admitted he used to take the abuse because "I loved her".

It got me thinking about what I would do. My girlfriend is 5ft, 5ft1 and is very petite, think Kylie Minogue type of frame. Now I told him if she hit me there would be trouble. Of course, I wouldn't hit her back but she would be told to f**k off and leave straight away. It's not the physical pain because she's so petite, she wouldn't really hurt me, it would be the fact that she would have decided it was an acceptable act. And that's the thing. Even if most women can't really cause major physical pain by throwing a punch or a slap, it the fact it's just thuggish behaviour.

I can't believe he put up with it.

I too was hit by an ex while she had drink on her. It is not in my nature to hit a woman so I didn't return the favour. However, the only reason it didn't hurt all that much was the fact I was able to remove my face from the direction of the fist so it made contact with my arm/chest etc which didn't hurt much.

The physical pain is only one side of physical abuse, there is emotional pain and humiliation from it too.

What really annoys me though is the attitude (from some women), "oh your a man, it doesn't hurt you and you can get over it". That is not the point.

EDIT: Actually, now I recall an instance where the same girl gave me a ferocious kick in the shins and it hurt like hell. I never mentioned it to her and she made no reference to it the next day when sober.

K-9

donfers wrote: »

I'm afraid I disagree on a couple of points

1. yes it's not the most elegant of phrases but it's not certainly not meaningless especially when contextualised

2. do you have an alternative noun phrase to describe these types of people? We are unfortunately limited by two things when expressing ourselves, language itself and time....so rather than saying something like "people who are eager to defend the honour of women at every possible opportuntity regardless of the rights and wrongs of the particular situation" we can instead invoke the economical yet imperfect phrases like "have a go heroes" or "white knighters", i would also contend that the latter term here is being picked on by you partly perhaps because it has been used against you in the past, the former phrase didn't incite any disapproval which is curious, I mean why is "white knighters" so moronic yet "have a go heroes" exempt from critical comment?

anyway i digress and we are being drawn into a semantical debate which is not likely to go anywhere beyond our own subjective interpetations of what constitutes meaning and well.......let's just say we are both right within the confines of our minds on that one


The second paragraph, I completely agree with you and again fair play to you for having the integrity to be issue-driven in terms of your views rather than shall we say party-driven (as in I am a member of Fianna Fail therefore I must agree with all their policies or I am a man therefore I must support all men's rights issues - I think a lot of us could do with making more effort to shake off the burden of clan bias - apart from Liverpool of course!).

Unfortunately the nature of boards with all its varied special interest forums and thanks system (and scores of opinion-givers queueing up to support or denounce an issue with virtual platform freely available to all no matter how deluded or radical) is that clans develop and sometimes loyalty to the clan overrides or silences someone's genuinely held view, I often suspect that if we met some of the people we often debate with on here in real life they would come across as far more civil and far less aggressive (including me) but the nature of the beast is towards radicalisation on here and that's fun too just as long as people don't get too enraged by the opinions of faceless strangers who they most likely will never encounter.

physical violence against men is condoned more by society at league partly because of the issues i have raised in this post (so not completely off-topic earlier i hope) as in most women aren't too bothered by it because it doesn't affect them and most men don't want to appear week or whiney in front of their peer group by raising the issue and looking for support and admitting they were hurt rather than making a gag out of it as usually happens in these cases.

As an individual I bleed and bruise and hurt just like an old man or a kid or a woman or an immigrant or a homosexual or a black person or whoever, so let me judge my own pain and let me be judged on that pain rather than the usual "I am a young Irish male superhero and above all that pain nonsense/he is a young Irish male superhero and above all that pain nonsense"

You would swear men are superheroes when you watch or read the news because they never die (for example,train crash, 23 dead including 6 women and 3 children) because every time we are badly hurt but don't look for help or support or every time we make a gag about a guy who had his penis cut off or even when we don't speak out against the gag we are contributing to the continuation of that damaging mindset that men are somehow fair game when it comes to having pain inflicted upon them.

I would like to think I am speaking out against this because it is wrong but I don't know, maybe I am just doing it merely because I am a man, I hope not.

Have a go heroes can mean different things though and in certain cases it wouldn't be a slur.

Anyway, I agree on the rest of your post, I can remember getting a teapot, mobile phone and other things thrown at me, getting hit a few times and really there wasn't that much of a reaction if anybody was around, maybe a :rolleyes:, oh, she's at it again!

I do think attitudes are starting to change but it's a slow process. I find if you raise the figures about male victims of domestic violence a lot of people are in denial about them and the "sure women get it worse" card is thrown, thus making light of it.

caseyann

WindSock wrote: »

He is...also a loveable rogue. But I see what you are saying, I always remember this video. It's only seen as shocking when the man hits back...and he gets a hiding for it. Ok, his retaliation was a little harder than hers and not needed but he is right when he asks 'How can she slap, how can she slap..'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lfVyyEI70

Question what did he say to her? Not that i am excusing what she said and then did.But what did he mumble?


Seems to me she thought she could get away with being an ignorant beep and then throw a slap in.But still cant hear what he said to get such a reaction as a slap after the cursing.

opti76

caseyann wrote: »

Question what did he say to her? Not that i am excusing what she said and then did.But what did he mumble?


Seems to me she thought she could get away with being an ignorant beep and then throw a slap in.But still cant hear what he said to get such a reaction as a slap after the cursing.

he said maybe you should go .... after being told to F*** off

caseyann

opti76 wrote: »

he said maybe you should go .... after being told to F*** off

Ah so she is a slap happy person type,yeah no time for them either.He shouldn't have hit her back but ah well she asked for it.

foxyboxer

Just to lighten the mood

dsmythy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013870/Robber-broke-hair-salon-beaten-black-belt-owner-kept-sex-slave-days--fed-Viagra.html


Might be of interest to thread readers. Man in Russia breaks into a hair salon and is knocked out by a black belt. She keeps him tied up for three days, plies him with viagra and forces sex on him.

Lady's response?

"'What a bastard. Yes, we had sex a couple of times. But I bought him new jeans, gave him food and even gave him 1,000 roubles when he left."

Not sure how true the story is but as ever the comments left on the story shows a familiar tale.

py2006

dsmythy wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013870/Robber-broke-hair-salon-beaten-black-belt-owner-kept-sex-slave-days--fed-Viagra.html


Might be of interest to thread readers. Man in Russia breaks into a hair salon and is knocked out by a black belt. She keeps him tied up for three days, plies him with viagra and forces sex on him.

Lady's response?

"'What a bastard. Yes, we had sex a couple of times. But I bought him new jeans, gave him food and even gave him 1,000 roubles when he left."

Not sure how true the story is but as ever the comments left on the story shows a familiar tale.

Ah yea, I only read this the other day and meant to bring it up here!

citytillidie

dsmythy wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013870/Robber-broke-hair-salon-beaten-black-belt-owner-kept-sex-slave-days--fed-Viagra.html


Might be of interest to thread readers. Man in Russia breaks into a hair salon and is knocked out by a black belt. She keeps him tied up for three days, plies him with viagra and forces sex on him.

Lady's response?

"'What a bastard. Yes, we had sex a couple of times. But I bought him new jeans, gave him food and even gave him 1,000 roubles when he left."

Not sure how true the story is but as ever the comments left on the story shows a familiar tale.

Some of the comments on there are disgusting girls saying he deserved it and girl power and guys wishing it was them, just like when a female teacher takes advantage of a male student, guys will comment on how they wish it was their teacher.

It is never taken seriously.

Like here female teacher is even pictured in bed and still gets away with underage sex

LeeHoffmann

I totally agree that female violence against men (FVAM) and female rape of men isn't taken seriously. The rape is treated as though it were sex, not rape. I also don't get the attitude some princesses have that it's ok to slap men around - it's a pathetic thing to do to slap someone you don't agree with and anyone should feel ashamed if they do it. Two points on this thread I totally disagree with though are: hitting a woman back is not 'equality' - you're stronger, you can do more damage, it's not the best response. I see it as the same as me hitting a child or OAP back. Secondly, there seems to be an assumption from some posters that women take FVAM less seriously than men do. In my experience men tend to laugh it off and/or slag other men about it more often than women do. I think some posters are laying a disproportionate amount of blame for the frivolous attitudes towards FVAM at the feet of women.

py2006

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

In my experience men tend to laugh it off and/or slag other men about it more often than women do.

To be honest, I think men tend to laugh it off because that is what is expected of them.

LeeHoffmann

I disagree. It's usually the men who make the jokes about it. If men feel under pressure to laugh it off, where/who is this pressure coming from? As men are the ones who make more of the jokes and do more of the slagging about it, I'd think that's the source of that pressure.

py2006

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

If men feel under pressure to laugh it off, where/who is this pressure coming from?

Society?

py2006

To be honest, if a man is physically hurt by a woman:

a) He can't cry.
b) He can't react physically.


Of course, I am referring to what is unacceptable by society.

LeeHoffmann

Society?

so then both men and women?

py2006

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

so then both men and women?

I would say so yes!

LeeHoffmann

Great. Then we can agree that women aren't taking FVAM less seriously than men do, as some posts would seem to imply.

Violence towards men in entertainment/advertising etc...is often supported by other women who will side and cheer the female aggressor.

py2006

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

Great. Then we can agree that women aren't taking FVAM less seriously than men do, as some posts would seem to imply.

Well, when I think of it. Men laugh because that is what is expected of them. If they cry/react they are seen as being less of a man.

I think some women laugh it off because it is funny. i.e in entertainment and the media. You only have to look at what some poster mentioned about the woman who mutilated a man's genitalia being treated to cheers and applause on the Oprah Winfrey show.

LeeHoffmann

Well, when I think of it.

translation: well now that I don't like the conclusions of our discussion, I'm going to start all over again.

Men laugh because that is what is expected of them. If they cry/react they are seen as being less of a man.

you're generalising and making assumptions. Expected of them by whom? Seen as less of a man by whom?

I think some women laugh it off because it is funny

some women yes. Also, some men, didn't we agree? But wait - when women laugh it's cause it's funny; when men laugh it's because they feel the heavy weight of social expectation upon them. See anything wrong with this way of reasoning?

the woman who mutilated a man's genitalia being treated to cheers and applause on the Oprah Winfrey show.

I haven't seen that show but if women cheered that another woman mutilated a man in this way, that sounds horrific and beyond shocking. However, that this happened doesn't mean you can reasonable generalise this to all women. That's one helluva jump and I don't think it's fair or justified to make it