Physical violence against men in the Irish media...

HellFireClub · 06-07-2011 06:30PM #1

I was watching Fair City the other day, and I couldn't help but notice a scene where a girl (Orla) wallops her fiance (Keith) or recently departed fiance, across the face in a cafe, to conclude some row she was having with him over something to do with an engagement ring.

The double standards of this I think are completely wrong in 2011.

I imagine there would be absolute uproar if a similar scene was broadcast but the set up was a guy walloping a girl across the face...

How is it that this mode of correction is still reserved as acceptable for women, yet if a man dared the same, he would be treated as an outcast, and rightly so???

Lon Dubh · 06-07-2011 06:35PM

In Fairness to Fair City, they do seem to have had a story line a few months ago where a man was being abused by his wife. (I only saw a few parts of episodes then, but this seems to have been the gist of it. I don't watch it normally so did not follow the storyline fully, but from the little I saw the man was being verbally and physically abused by his wife). But yeah it would be better if this sort of slapping thing you are describing was not depicted as normal.

Wibbs · 06-07-2011 06:36PM

The other "rule" is in mainstream hollywood. Man and woman sidekicks have to have a fight at the end and it's up against another man and woman. It nearly always happens that the women square up to the women and the men the same and the script can get bent outa shape to accommodate this. Though the women can have a go at punching the bloke*, but almost never ever the man punching the woman.

*and if they do they appear to have preternatural strength and often knock the bloke clean off his feet. Yea like angelina jolie, all 4 stone of her is gonna take out some muscle bound bloke with a right hook

Dravokivich · 06-07-2011 06:38PM

Its a show based on drama. whats the problem?

Bloody Nipples · 06-07-2011 06:43PM

I dunno would there be uproar if a man hitting a woman was depicted in a tv program. Like to demonstrate how villainous a character is or something.

Exhibit A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr8Jw-VYflY

rusty_racer94 · 06-07-2011 06:44PM

It's only fictional. Don't be too excited young soldier.
Don't forget that many TV programmes have shown voilence against women too.

WindSock · 06-07-2011 06:53PM

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

I dunno would there be uproar if a man hitting a woman was depicted in a tv program. Like to demonstrate how villainous a character is or something.

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr8Jw-VYflY

Was there uproar over this scene in another Colin Farrell film?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8EGCC9NNvo

BUt yeah I agree with the op, I don't like seeing men getting slapped on tv as if is acceptable normal, angry scorned woman behaviour.

HellFireClub · 06-07-2011 06:57PM

rusty_racer94 wrote: »

It's only fictional. Don't be too excited young soldier.
Don't forget that many TV programmes have shown voilence against women too.

Yes but the context is always completely different. When a man is the offender, it is in the context of a messed up man protrayed as what he is, which is an abuser.

But when it is a woman giving a guy a slap to let off some steam, the context presented is that he was asking for it!

As for the point above about the storyline a few months back where a guy was on the receiving end of domestic abuse, this was different, this was an attempt to show how a guy can be a victim of domestic abuse as much as a woman can find herself in that situation.

But a casual slap, you don't see Fair City telling the lads on set to give a quick slap to the wife or the girlfriend if she has p*ssed him off, do ya?!?

Wolfe Tone · 06-07-2011 06:57PM

My first memory of seeing violence against women from men on the telly would have been the WWF. I remember watching this as a kid... (Stone Cold is actually a wife beater too)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TPtM5nvNtc

This was a long time ago in America, but the demographic would be teenagers.

Equal treatment eh? At the time I was pretty shocked.

Th two men were "baddies" in that video but I'm pretty sure a few times when a man attacked a woman in the WWF (who was a bitch) they got huge cheers.

(I know its not real or a soap, but seen as Wibbs mentioned Hollywood and action films, the same vein)

HellFireClub · 06-07-2011 07:01PM

WindSock wrote: »

Was there uproar over this scene in another Colin Farrell film?

But again its the context! He is being portrayed as a sc*mbag thief! In that context, he commits a violent robbery... Again, the matter isn't one of a slap in the face that is considered to be acceptable!

WindSock · 06-07-2011 07:06PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

But again its the context! He is being portrayed as a sc*mbag thief! In that context, he commits a violent robbery... Again, the matter isn't one of a slap in the face that is considered to be acceptable!

He is...also a loveable rogue. But I see what you are saying, I always remember this video. It's only seen as shocking when the man hits back...and he gets a hiding for it. Ok, his retaliation was a little harder than hers and not needed but he is right when he asks 'How can she slap, how can she slap..'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lfVyyEI70

HellFireClub · 06-07-2011 07:11PM

WindSock wrote: »

He is...also a loveable rogue. But I see what you are saying, I always remember this video. It's only seen as shocking when the man hits back...and he gets a hiding for it. Ok, his retaliation was a little harder than hers and not needed but he is right when he asks 'How can she slap, how can she slap..'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lfVyyEI70

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

Jarren · 06-07-2011 07:17PM

Maybe there is something wrong with me but sort of like watching women kicking men asses on tv

a few examples of my female heroes:D

They could kick my my arse anytime:P

however

I wouldn't fancy getting my arse kicked by her:eek:

Miguel_Sanchez · 06-07-2011 07:22PM

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

I dunno would there be uproar if a man hitting a woman was depicted in a tv program. Like to demonstrate how villainous a character is or something.

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr8Jw-VYflY

She swings a bottle at him first.

py2006 · 06-07-2011 07:22PM

Unfortunately, this is always the case. It is something I have felt strongly about in the past.

Violence towards men in entertainment/advertising etc is seen as funny or warranted. It is often supported by other women who will side and cheer the female aggressor.

An example of this is a video I think my Pink or some similar artist were she is beating her husband who is tied to a chair. This is acceptable and seen as funny or whatever. However, a similar video showing man beating wife to entertain the fans wouldn't even get aired. I didn't see the video so perhaps somebody who did can comment on this.

Its the same as the when it comes to 'sexualisation'. Its seen as wrong to portray a women in a sexual light for advertising etc and you will here bands of women claiming how offended they are etc etc (I have my views on that but I won't go there)

Men are sexualised too but you don't hear these women complaining about it or men for that reason.

krudler · 06-07-2011 07:46PM

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

She swings a bottle at him first.

I'd have no problem decking a woman who was trying to bottle me either, self defence is self defence doesnt matter the gender of someone attacking you, if it was a choice of hitting a woman and breaking some social taboo or getting glassed in the face I'd knock her out if it came to it.

Wolfe Tone · 06-07-2011 07:47PM

krudler wrote: »

I'd have no problem decking a woman who was trying to bottle me either, self defence is self defence doesnt matter the gender of someone attacking you, if it was a choice of hitting a woman and breaking some social taboo or getting glassed in the face I'd knock her out if it came to it.

If you were out though the chances are if you hit a woman loads of lads will jump in and batter you, no matter what the woman did.

JamJamJamJam · 06-07-2011 08:15PM

WindSock wrote: »

He is...also a loveable rogue. But I see what you are saying, I always remember this video. It's only seen as shocking when the man hits back...and he gets a hiding for it. Ok, his retaliation was a little harder than hers and not needed but he is right when he asks 'How can she slap, how can she slap..'
[...]

Jeez, poor guy got a really unnecessary doing!

But I see where the idea stems from, because, of course, generally men are seen as bigger, more muscular and stronger things, while women are almost always seen as smaller and gentler beings.

I hope I'm not straying too far off topic here, but violence against anyone should be shown to be wrong. It's so barbaric and primitive. How we, surrounded by these incredible monuments of human advancement - iPods, satellites, the internet, the spire (:pac:) - continue to employ violence in an attempt to rationally solve anything is utterly beyond me...

Galvasean · 06-07-2011 08:18PM

WindSock wrote: »

she slap..'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lfVyyEI70

I'd have loafed her one TBH, but then again I believe in equal rights among the sexes.
It's quite typical. Woman slaps man in face. Nobody bats an eyelid. He slaps her back, NOW he's gone too far!

SugarHigh · 06-07-2011 08:29PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

krudler wrote: »

I'd have no problem decking a woman who was trying to bottle me either, self defence is self defence doesnt matter the gender of someone attacking you, if it was a choice of hitting a woman and breaking some social taboo or getting glassed in the face I'd knock her out if it came to it.

If you were out though the chances are if you hit a woman loads of lads will jump in and batter you, no matter what the woman did.

+1 it's easy to talk sh1t on the Internet but in reality I can't imagine most people would hit a woman back.

But tbh that goes for hitting men back too. When it comes down to it a lot of people even when backed into a corner don't defend themselves despite what they like to think they'd do.

WindSock · 06-07-2011 08:33PM

Galvasean wrote: »

I'd have loafed her one TBH, but then again I believe in equal rights among the sexes.

Can't see how stitching a loaf to someone has much to do with equality. I could never do it to someone who is obviously weaker than me. Hitting someone back is not so much self defence as retaliation...if an elderly person slapped me for example, my first reaction would not be to hit them back, or headbutt them...

SugarHigh · 06-07-2011 08:37PM

WindSock wrote: »

Galvasean wrote: »

I'd have loafed her one TBH, but then again I believe in equal rights among the sexes.

Can't see how stitching a loaf to someone has much to do with equality. I could never do it to someone who is obviously weaker than me. Hitting someone back is not so much self defence as retaliation...if an elderly person slapped me for example, my first reaction would not be to hit them back, or headbutt them...

Hitting someone back is self defence because it prevents them from hitting. It's also possible to throw the first punch and it still be self defence.

If elderly person hits you and looks like try will again why shouldn't you hit them just because they are weaker? Maybe the fact they are weaker means they should have more sense about who they get unto fights with.

Galvasean · 06-07-2011 08:39PM

WindSock wrote: »

Can't see how stitching a loaf to someone has much to do with equality.

Because I would do the same whether it was a man or woman assaulting me.
Can't see how you seem to have missed such an obvious point.

WindSock · 06-07-2011 08:57PM

SugarHigh wrote: »

Hitting someone back is self defence because it prevents them from hitting. It's also possible to throw the first punch and it still be self defence.

If elderly person hits you and looks like try will again why shouldn't you hit them just because they are weaker? Maybe the fact they are weaker means they should have more sense about who they get unto fights with.

Hitting someone back usually leads to more fighting and point scoring, it should be a last resort in many cases, restraining should be the first if further attacks ensue, and if possible. As for a slap on the face, I can't see how headbutting someone back for it is a reasonable reaction, be they male or female.

Galvasean wrote: »

Because I would do the same whether it was a man or woman assaulting me.
Can't see how you seem to have missed such an obvious point.

Didn't miss your point, I just don't agree that that is what equality is.
I think it is disgraceful that some women think they can get away with hitting men, but I also think seeing it as a green light **** up someone who is obviously weaker is a bit sad too.

Logical Fallacy · 06-07-2011 08:57PM

LF's rules to physical confrontation.

1) Only slap/punch or kick someone if it is your intention to start a fight.

2) Don't start a fight with people who are physical stronger than you if you are not up to taking them on.

3) IF you throw a slap/punch or kick expect one in return via direct mail.

4) If you get your ass beat, deal with it.

I think males or females can apply those rules quite easily and live very happy, non violent lives.

Galvasean · 06-07-2011 09:04PM

WindSock wrote: »

Didn't miss your point, I just don't agree that that is what equality is.
I think it is disgraceful that some women think they can get away with hitting men, but I also think seeing it as a green light **** up someone who is obviously weaker is a bit sad too.

Who says a woman is obviously weaker? Not that someone needs to be particularly strong to mess you up something awful if you don't defend yourself. a headbutt might seem barbaric to you, but it usually stuns a person enough to at the very least buy you enough time to step back from them and avoid receiving more blows. Bear in mind I have no particular training in disarming/disabling assailants so sometimes the most simplistic/primitive move works best.

WindSock · 06-07-2011 09:18PM

Galvasean wrote: »

Who says a woman is obviously weaker? Not that someone needs to be particularly strong to mess you up something awful if you don't defend yourself. a headbutt might seem barbaric to you, but it usually stuns a person enough to at the very least buy you enough time to step back from them and avoid receiving more blows. Bear in mind I have no particular training in disarming/disabling assailants so sometimes the most simplistic/primitive move works best.

I am not saying the woman is always weaker, they generally are and can't take a hit as easily as man, same with a small and skinny man too like a junky... obviously being threatened with a needle/knife/bottle is a different kettle of fish, then headbutt and stomp away imo, but a slap on the face is not what I would call a major threat. At most it is a blow to the ego and leaves a sting on the cheek.

BrianD3 · 06-07-2011 09:18PM

One example that immediately comes to mind is not a tv programme but an ad for a mobile phone network; "Carla the blonde, the intern Carla"

Not only is the man slapped in the face but the woman also displays aggressive "posturing" before the slap. Having been on the receiving end of this sort of thing from women after tiny misdemeanors on my part, this sort of behaviour is unfortunately quite familiar.

Have also had women punch me in the arm and chest and had one stamp hard on my foot (didn't really hurt as she was wearing flat shoes) I find it's an instinctive reaction to laugh it off, pretend you didn't feel it at all and not make a fuss. I know from talking to people that if a man made a fuss after being hit like this he'd be seen as humourless, cantankerous, a pansy etc.

Galvasean · 06-07-2011 09:22PM

WindSock wrote: »

I am not saying the woman is always weaker, they generally are and can't take a hit as easily as man, same with a small and skinny man too like a junky... obviously being threatened with a needle/knife/bottle is a different kettle of fish, then headbutt and stomp away imo, but a slap on the face is not what I would call a major threat. At most it is a blow to the ego and leaves a sting on the cheek.

Cry me a river. If people don't want to be hit back then they have no business hitting others in the first place. when someone hits you your instinctive reaction is to strike back hard so they won't do it again.
I think certain women take advantage of the social conditioning that men can't hit women as it's seen as taboo and think they can get away with it.

desertcircus · 06-07-2011 10:25PM

I wouldn't be pleased if my girlfriend slapped me across the face. But I'd want to be high as a kite to think it'd be as wrong as me punching her. She's five feet tall and seven stone. I'm nearly a foot taller and more than twice her weight. It's abundantly obvious to all involved that her slapping me is going to cause a momentary sting and a red cheek. Me punching her could easily leave her in hospital.

Slapping your boyfriend isn't cool, but let's not pretend it's the same thing as punching your girlfriend. In 99+% of cases, a male partner will cause far more damage.

Logical Fallacy · 06-07-2011 11:08PM

desertcircus wrote: »

In 99+% of cases, a male partner will cause far more damage.

Generally speaking, people hitting their partner has very little to do with causing damage and everything to do with asserting dominance. It's similar to rape being more about control than it is about sex.

Here's the crux of it....someone who would hit their partner who is physically smaller and weaker than them is a ****ing scumbag.

Someone who would hit their partner from the safety point of a perceived societal defence (that is to say, their partner is bigger and stronger than them) is a ****ing scumbag.

There is no difference between the two for me. People talking about a stinging cheek and a ****ing damaged ego? No offense to Windsock, i normally see you speaking a lot of sense but whether you realise it or not that is pretty much a prime example of the difference in the perception of the assault by males of females and vice versa.

It's not a damaged ego, it's a betrayal of trust and an assault. Not trying to be argumentative, and definitely not trying to put words in your mouth...i just find it funny than in a thread about the perception of violence towards males the usage of words is still implying....ah **** it, he'll get over it.

Maybe i'm wrong, so once again, no offence. Just wondering if that particular combination of words would appear in a thread about male on female violence.

I've been in an abusive relationship in the past...a hurt ego has **** all to do with anything.

Physical violence against men in the Irish media...

Comments