Unions call to not pay mortgages

Jocker

At last! The Irish people are waking up to their Governments corruption and are calling for action for people to stop paying their mortgages and in return cause the banks to crash bringing the power back to the people.

This has taken too long to happen but come on people carry this out and teach these elitist gangsters a lesson for once and for all. Claim your country back and let Mr. Kenny know he is not a leader of the Irish but a servant who better listen before the **** really hits the fan in Ireland.

The Irish have had many chances to turn this all around but have had their heads in the sand for far too long to their own detriment. .To be able to stick your head in the sand you must be on your knees. Now lets all get these currupt IMF slaves on their knees and bring the banks also to their knees. They are thrwing people out of their homes and couldn't care less about the faith of the people or their families they are evicting.

What goes around certainly comes back around but this has taken too long to come back around. Start action NOW people and claim your sovereignty back. This could be your last chance to make a stand to protect your own interests and those of your kids for the future.

Caoimhín

Jesus wept. What bollix, people borrowed money to buy expensive houses and now want the rest of us to let them off the hook. Write off the mortgage but keep the house? Over my dead body buddy.

Giblet

What do you propose they do when they're kicked out on their arses?

man.about.town

ehhh no, im struggling to pay my mortgage but ill continue to pay it because i dont expect anything for nothing and i certainly dont expect other hard working tax payers pay my mortgage. i made the decision to buy, i signed the papers, i will pay it back simples

Caoimhín

man.about.town wrote: »

ehhh no, im struggling to pay my mortgage but ill continue to pay it because i dont expect anything for nothing and i certainly dont expect other hard working tax payers pay my mortgage. i made the decision to buy, i signed the papers, i will pay it back simples

That is fair, reasonable and mature of you.

While I have some sympathy for those who are out of work, especially families who are struggling with large loans, it is astonishing the amount of people who want the banks/tax payers to reduce the mortgage to what the house is currently valued at. This is regardless of their ability to pay.

Thoie

I'm confused by the reference to "elitist gangsters" and don't know if you're referring to the government, the unions or homeowners.

Regardless, like man.about.town, as a grown-up who made a decision to take out a mortgage, I'll live up to my side of the bargain by paying it. The bank lived up to their side by giving me money.

Neffa2

Heard the union guy on newstalk - made a complete mess of explaining things - basically said "the banks can afford it because we gave them bailout money" - no idea at all of the way it worked.

Diceicle

While I dont necessarily agree everyone in the country should just stop paying their mortgages, the government and banks need to tackle the situation that is coming in the near future about mortgage defaults.

People applied for mortgages, lack-lustre systems in banks, lack of decent government financial control, banks taking into account almost every conceivable income stream to couples whether justified or not (overtime, bonuses, renting out rooms) allowed them to have those mortgages and now the country has tens of thousands of Irish citizens struggling to keep their financial heads above water and thats all before ECB rate rises, bank rate rises, carbon tax, house tax, water tax, income tax increases, rise in the cost of living and whatever further cuts in pay that will come.

The government dont want these houses , the banks dont want these houses (unless we return to growth) and so I think its either a case of we play the waiting game until some sort of recovery starts to happen then the banks can move in and repossess homes to get the money back or profit on, and the government has to house the people anyway, or our gov tackles the problem and ensures people can afford to stay in their homes, but I wont hold my breath on that one.

Uriel.

Neffa2 wrote: »

Heard the union guy on newstalk - made a complete mess of explaining things - basically said "the banks can afford it because we gave them bailout money" - no idea at all of the way it worked.

Do you expect anything more from a union?

Useless shower of gobsh1tes. Grasping at straws trying to seem somehow relevant to their dwindling me membership.

Bloody dangerous though, telling people not to pay their mortgage. I presume they offered to look after the long-term living arrangements of any member who gets thrown on the street because of this "advice/protest"??? *rolleyes*

Staplor

THe OP has now 2 posts, the other one about nixers, if the cash culture was reduced in this country we'd be in a far better state, with everyone paying a fair share of tax.

baaaa

This attitude of "I made a deal with the bank so I must honour it" is so delightfully naive and irish.
Keep paying suckers,you're paying so that others don't have to.

Uriel.

baaaa wrote: »

This attitude of "I made a deal with the bank so I must honour it" is so delightfully naive and irish.
Keep paying suckers,you're paying so that others don't have to.

WTF? Where does Personal responsibilty come into this? Should the state provide a free house to every citizen?

Ps contract law is neither naive or exclusively Irish

baaaa

Uriel. wrote: »

WTF? Where does Personal responsibilty come into this? Should the state provide a free house to every citizen?

Ps contract law is neither naive or exclusively Irish

It's my personal responsibility to look after myself and not the interests a private institution?

Cookie_Monster

baaaa wrote: »

It's my personal responsibility to look after myself and not the interests a private institution?

but surely it's in your best interests to pay back money you borrowed, rather than simply steal it?

baaaa

Uriel. wrote: »

Ps contract law is neither naive or exclusively Irish

Yes,but bowing to your masters like a slave is.
We are famous for our stockholm like tendencies.

Uriel.

baaaa wrote: »

Uriel. wrote: »

WTF? Where does Personal responsibilty come into this? Should the state provide a free house to every citizen?

Ps contract law is neither naive or exclusively Irish

It's my personal responsibility to look after myself and not the interests a private institution?

Do you accept that it is in your best interests to adhere to a legal contract that you have signed and failing to do so allows redress from the other aide which includes repossession of a property??

femur61

Aren't we bailing out the banks as it is, in reality not just loans for big developers but covering the a*rses of thoses with high mortagages.

baaaa

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but surely it's in your best interests to pay back money you borrowed, rather than simply steal it?

Really?You think I'd be better off paying 300k to the bank for a gaff worth a third of that because why again?

RichardAnd

Anyone who took out a mortgage should pay it back. I call that taking responsibility for one's actions and being an adult. Ireland got into this mess by being reckless with other peoples' money, I don't think we'll get out of it by more of the same.

If the consequences of a 110% mortgages for John and Mary means that they will be in debt until they are in their 70s well then I hope their children (and grandchildren) look to them as an example and never, ever allow themselves for fall into debt.

baaaa

Uriel. wrote: »

Do you accept that it is in your best interests to adhere to a legal contract that you have signed and failing to do so allows redress from the other aide which includes repossession of a property??

No,you know not my best interests.

baaaa

RichardAnd wrote: »

Anyone who took out a mortgage should pay it back. I call that taking responsibility for one's actions and being an adult. Ireland got into this mess by being reckless with other peoples' money,

Lol,lol,lol so that's the definition of adulthood.
Yes,we sure were reckless,we'll have to be more careful next time with the nice peoples money.
Again,naive anybody?
Should we chalk it up as lessons to be learnt and hope the grandchildren will learn from it?Big sigh at how naive naive is

Cookie_Monster

baaaa wrote: »

Really?You think I'd be better off paying 300k to the bank for a gaff worth a third of that because why again?

1) you signed the contract
2) it's not their fault you bought an overvalued house, nor that it has fallen in value
3) you'll be black listed and not be able to get another mortgage
4) they'll probably seize the house
5) people won't view you as a lying cheating scumbag who's word has zero meaning

pillphil

Thoie wrote: »

The bank lived up to their side by giving me money.

No they didn't

maggy_thatcher

I assume all those that take part in these 'not pay our debts' protests will have a black mark on their credit report (missed payment), meaning that if they want to get so much as a new credit card, they'll have significant trouble in doing so? Missing payments should only be done by people who absolutely have to, as the result should be "can't be trusted with money - be careful lending to them in future."

A house is worth as much as you are willing to pay for it -- if you were willing to pay more than what anybody is willing to pay for it now, that's not anybody's fault except your own, and protesting about it isn't going to do any good.

The Rook

Fcuk me, so the union guy wants us to forget the facts that

(a) We wanted a house.
(b) We said we'd pay for a house.
(c) That we signed an agreement with a bank that if they gave us a certain amount of money we'd pay that same amount of money back.
(d) That we're full grown adults who generally follow through on things we sign legal agreements for.

Let him call for non payment of mortgages all he wants, let him not pay his mortgage and then let him get kicked out of his house, I certainly won't shed a tear for him or anyone else who supports his viewpoint.

Frank Black

baaaa wrote: »

We are famous for our stockholm like tendencies.

No, that's the Sweedish you're thinking of.

Salmon

While I agree that a loan taken out must be honored in full I do believe there is some merit In this suggestion. I think it might be more appropriate to promote a reduction of the payment to the banks rather than a full withholding of the mortgage! For example if all these new taxes, charges and pay reductions happen in December end up costing me an extra 400 per month I wouldn't have a problem reducing my mortgage by the same amount each month. If this was done en masse it might focus the govts minds on tackling the bankers without loading it onto already struggling householders.
Just my 2c!

baaaa

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

2) it's not their fault you bought an overvalued house, nor that it has fallen in value

Now we're getting somewhere.
Some people say it is the banks fault- for flooding the market with cheap,lax credit thus inflating prices temporarily and ultimately crashing it long -term.

RichardAnd

baaaa wrote: »

Lol,lol,lol so that's the definition of adulthood.
Yes,we sure were reckless,we'll have to be more careful next time with the nice peoples money.
Again,naive anybody?
Should we chalk it up as lessons to be learnt and hope the grandchildren will learn from it?Big sigh at how naive naive is

And responding to me with the puerile phrase of "lol" is just maturity defined isn't it. Further to that, I fail to see the point you're making to rebuke my take on things. Care to elaborate?

baaaa

RichardAnd wrote: »

And responding to me with the puerile phrase of "lol" is just maturity defined isn't it. Further to that, I fail to see the point you're making to rebuke my take on things. Care to elaborate?

Certainly not after such a show of intellectual superiority,I know my place.

Bandana boy

baaaa wrote: »

Certainly not after such a show of intellectual superiority,I know my place.

the only thing you posted that makes sense

sellerbarry

Here's the scenario if i can't pay my mortgage.
Bank repossesses house.
Bank sells house.
Bank chases me for shortfall.
I am on welfare..
Govt gives me all my entitlements (ie: med card,job allowance, fuel allowance, childrens allowance, rent allowance, back to school etc.)
Bank brings me to court.
I get free legal aid.
Judge awards Bank 10euro/wk for the rest of my days.
I do cash jobs here and there.;)

baaaa

sellerbarry wrote: »

Here's the scenario if i can't pay my mortgage.
Bank repossesses house.
Bank sells house.
Bank chases me for shortfall.
I am on welfare..
Govt gives me all my entitlements (ie: med card,job allowance, fuel allowance, childrens allowance, rent allowance, back to school etc.)
Bank brings me to court.
I get free legal aid.
Judge awards Bank 10euro/wk for the rest of my days.
I do cash jobs here and there.;)

Yes,but you will be dishonoured for ever.

sellerbarry

I would rather do that than service a 300k loan for a house worth 150k and let my kids go without to keep the fat bankers happy. Lets be honest here and let the bankers take some of the pain. After all, they gave out money they really didn't have in the first place. From where i'm sitting, the bankers are still laughing at the rest of us, getting bonuses left right and centre with money from the IMF.

d'Oracle

This is the dumbest idea anybody has had to date.
Like the stupidest bloody nonsense I have heard in weeks.
Except maybe OP's populist garbage response.

If people collectively don't pay their mortgages then the banks are put under.
As most of the banks are in state ownership, this means that in order to have anything like a functioning banking system (and before anybody uses the word Zombie to describe our functioning banks bear in mind that you probably have an ATM and/or credit card and you probably bought something today or yesterday from a business which banks ergo we have a functioning bank system) the government has to pay MORE money.

The government gets it money from us (the taxpayers) or from credit facilities (currently the EU/IMF) which further burdens the state, probably to an irreparable point.

Ergo when Johnny Don't et al decide to collectively fail to honour their contractual agreement it will cause further stress to themselves.

Whats more these are nurses. Now, I understand nurses plight. They work a tough, tough job. Many of them are in debt (mortgage) and go to work in increasingly poor conditions due to resource depletion in the appallingly run health services. They also quite often bear the brunt of the public dissatisfaction at the state of said health services.

The screaming irony is that if the economy is to suffer the effects of this madcap scheme, their working conditions will further deteriorate.

Thankfully I think this is just a foolish, ill-advised and irresponsible attempt to drum up support. I don't think they mean it.

maggy_thatcher

sellerbarry wrote: »

I would rather do that than service a 300k loan for a house worth 150k and let my kids go without to keep the fat bankers happy.

If you feel the house is only 150k, why did you agree to pay 300k for it? You are responsible for your own actions -- you made this choice.

d'Oracle

sellerbarry wrote: »

Here's the scenario if i can't pay my mortgage.
Bank repossesses house.
Bank sells house.
Bank chases me for shortfall.
I am on welfare..
Govt gives me all my entitlements (ie: med card,job allowance, fuel allowance, childrens allowance, rent allowance, back to school etc.)
Bank brings me to court.
I get free legal aid.
Judge awards Bank 10euro/wk for the rest of my days.
I do cash jobs here and there.;)

Fell at the third.

baaaa

sellerbarry wrote: »

I would rather do that than service a 300k loan for a house worth 150k and let my kids go without to keep the fat bankers happy.

No,no.You made a deal.

Scofflaw

baaaa wrote: »

This attitude of "I made a deal with the bank so I must honour it" is so delightfully naive and irish.
Keep paying suckers,you're paying so that others don't have to.

Yes - paying the mortgage on your house so the taxpayer doesn't have to.

amused,
Scofflaw

denlaw

baaaa wrote: »

Yes,but you will be dishonoured for ever.

people dont give a ****e about that anymore .

Crazy Horse 6

Feck that. So all the greedy feckers who bought houses they could'nt afford deserve a pass!! They paid over the odds gambled and lost, hard luck imo.

JustAddWater

Diceicle wrote: »

I think its a case of we play the waiting game

The waiting game sucks...

Let's play hungry hungry hippos!

Uriel.

Uriel. wrote: »

Do you expect anything more from a union?

Useless shower of gobsh1tes. Grasping at straws trying to seem somehow relevant to their dwindling me membership............

Numpties for the most part, thugs (wannabe) in suits.

baaaa

d'Oracle wrote: »

This is the dumbest idea anybody has had to date.
Like the stupidest bloody nonsense I have heard in weeks.
Except maybe OP's populist garbage response.

If people collectively don't pay their mortgages then the banks are put under.
As most of the banks are in state ownership, this means that in order to have anything like a functioning banking system (and before anybody uses the word Zombie to describe our functioning banks bear in mind that you probably have an ATM and/or credit card and you probably bought something today or yesterday from a business which banks ergo we have a functioning bank system) the government has to pay MORE money.

The government gets it money from us (the taxpayers) or from credit facilities (currently the EU/IMF) which further burdens the state, probably to an irreparable point.

Ergo when Johnny Don't et al decide to collectively fail to honour their contractual agreement it will cause further stress to themselves.

Whats more these are nurses. Now, I understand nurses plight. They work a tough, tough job. Many of them are in debt (mortgage) and go to work in increasingly poor conditions due to resource depletion in the appallingly run health services. They also quite often bear the brunt of the public dissatisfaction at the state of said health services.

The screaming irony is that if the economy is to suffer the effects of this madcap scheme, their working conditions will further deteriorate.

Thankfully I think this is just a foolish, ill-advised and irresponsible attempt to drum up support. I don't think they mean it.

Most of this is true except saying that it is foolish and dumb.
What is foolish and dumb is to keep doing the same thing when it clearly doesn't work.
There will be a new reality for us and we can shape it ourselves or let the bankers continue to shape it.

Will I Amnt

The Rook wrote: »

Fcuk me, so the union guy wants us to forget the facts That we signed an agreement with a bank that if they gave us a certain amount of money we'd pay that same amount of money back.

Where was I when they were giving out these interest free mortgages?????

COYW

baaaa wrote: »

Really?You think I'd be better off paying 300k to the bank for a gaff worth a third of that because why again?

Do you apply that logic to all purchases or just houses? The car I bought 3 years ago was worth €25,000 then but due to usage and natural depreciation it's value is a good bit less now. Should I turn to the credit union and tell them that I am not willing to pay the full amount anymore?

careca11

Jocker wrote: »

At last! The Irish people are waking up to their Governments corruption and are calling for action for people to stop paying their mortgages and in return cause the banks to crash bringing the power back to the people.

This has taken too long to happen but come on people carry this out and teach these elitist gangsters a lesson for once and for all. Claim your country back and let Mr. Kenny know he is not a leader of the Irish but a servant who better listen before the **** really hits the fan in Ireland.

The Irish have had many chances to turn this all around but have had their heads in the sand for far too long to their own detriment. .To be able to stick your head in the sand you must be on your knees. Now lets all get these currupt IMF slaves on their knees and bring the banks also to their knees. They are thrwing people out of their homes and couldn't care less about the faith of the people or their families they are evicting.

What goes around certainly comes back around but this has taken too long to come back around. Start action NOW people and claim your sovereignty back. This could be your last chance to make a stand to protect your own interests and those of your kids for the future.

thy should be talking about not paying themselves and there PS member's so much fcuking money( €21bn out of our yearly budget is simply not sustainable)
instead of this bullshyte about "not paying your mortgage"

Nody

Salmon wrote: »

While I agree that a loan taken out must be honored in full I do believe there is some merit In this suggestion. I think it might be more appropriate to promote a reduction of the payment to the banks rather than a full withholding of the mortgage! For example if all these new taxes, charges and pay reductions happen in December end up costing me an extra 400 per month I wouldn't have a problem reducing my mortgage by the same amount each month. If this was done en masse it might focus the govts minds on tackling the bankers without loading it onto already struggling householders.
Just my 2c!

Sure thing, then I hope you don't mind those of us who looked at the house market, laughed at the prices and did not take out a mortage for a overpriced shoe box pay in 400 EUR less in taxes as well to the state; fair is fair after all.

jackiebaron

Caoimhín wrote: »

Jesus wept. What bollix, people borrowed money to buy expensive houses and now want the rest of us to let them off the hook. Write off the mortgage but keep the house? Over my dead body buddy.

You seem to have no problem sacrificing your pension, your taxes or the future prospects of your children letting the banks "off the hook".

Strange how people always pay the debts of a scumbag if he wears a shirt and tie and blame the victim if he wears a t-shirt and jeans.

baaaa

COYW wrote: »

Do you apply that logic to all purchases or just houses? The car I bought 3 years ago was worth €25,000 then but due to usage and natural depreciation it's value is a good bit less now. Should I turn to the credit union and tell them that I am not willing to pay the full amount anymore?

I dunno,do you have means?Or did your lender destroy your means also like the banks have to many

Dyr

As someone who didnt buy during the boom (because I thought the prices were insane) I can say this:

I see where the union that floated this is coming from. to a degree. People who bought during the boom were by and large not feckless, the truth is that the only way to have some standard of living and security in this country is to buy your own home. Tenants have f**k all real rights and the ridiculous prices of rents during the boom made it prohibitive for a family to rent. House buyers didn't choose to take out massive mortgages they had no credible alternatives given the overheated property market.

The general consensus from the people who know best at the time (some of whom are on here now, their previous positions long forgotten, no doubt) was that the good times were going to roll forever.