Farming and Gas Fracking

Digitaljunkie

reilig wrote: »

While you gave the bright side to the whole campaign above, there is a dark side too!!

Yes there’s always a dark side to every campaign but sometimes you have to be a bigger person. Just because you (not you, in general by the way) don't agree with your neighbors, does not mean that you should succumb to the hype. I’ve seen all this with the “pylon affair” where topics were blown out of all proportion as some land owners saw dollar signs. Yes there’s always going to be dirty money grabbers jumping on the band wagon but shag them they’ll have no luck with it. Life has a way of sorting them out.

The difference is that there is a lot more international proof in the fracking issue. Exploding bed rock one thousand feet down simply scientifically can’t be done 100% safely period, yes there are successful wells at the moment but its relativity recent so no time span surveys have been completed, so we don’t know if these wells have the potential to fracture in the future when it’s too late. We are a small island we can’t take the risk of well failures it is simple risk management. Oil and gas exploration companies are famous for their risk management or lack their off.

We are told that shale gas has the potential of bringing up to 5 billion in revenue to the exchequer. Now let’s say they are wrong and it’s five times higher (highly unlikely by the way) were looking at around 30 billion. Simple Risk Management is blown out of the water as it certainly won’t get us out of our 200 billion + debt. Just look at what the oil companies did in South America.

There is a poignant reminder in a tune from the Manic’s around 1999 I think, which can be applied to both the banking crisis and everything else that goes along with it.......................

“If You Tolerate This Then Your Children Will Be Next”

bob charles

Digitaljunkie wrote: »

The difference is that there is a lot more international proof in the fracking issue. Exploding bed rock one thousand feet down simply scientifically can’t be done 100% safely period, yes there are successful wells at the moment but its relativity recent so no time span surveys have been completed, so we don’t know if these wells have the potential to fracture in the future when it’s too late. We are a small island we can’t take the risk of well failures it is simple risk management. Oil and gas exploration companies are famous for their risk management or lack their off.

I have found through my life anyone using the word "period" at the end of their sentences, is not worth listening too.

Digitaljunkie

bob charles wrote: »

I have found through my life anyone using the word "period" at the end of their sentences, is not worth listening too.

Very constructive can you elaborate?

Do you have any information as to weather fracking is 100% safe ?

corazon

Why can't we set up a debate in Carrick or somewhere with Tamboran and an anti-fracking group and hear both sides of the argument? Maybe a debate could shed some light on the subject and we might get some more details and hard data and less propaganda and scaremongering. I am a little skeptical of Tamboran and would like to hear their side. How to they get their projections without having drilled a well yet? I suspect they have a short them goal of selling off a large interest to a bigger exploration company. And why do the anti-fracking side refuse to acknowledge any potential benefits? I just gave a job reference today for a neighbours son who used to work for me. He is going to Canada to work for an oil company as an engineer. We refuse to develop our own resources so our kids can emigrate.

colrow

Digitaljunkie wrote: »

Very constructive can you elaborate?

Do you have any information as to weather fracking is 100% safe ?

What are they getting oil out of the sky when it rains now ??

Digitaljunkie

:P

colrow wrote: »

What are they getting oil out of the sky when it rains now ??

Digitaljunkie

corazon wrote: »

Why can't we set up a debate in Carrick or somewhere with Tamboran and an anti-fracking group and hear both sides of the argument? Maybe a debate could shed some light on the subject and we might get some more details and hard data and less propaganda and scaremongering. I am a little skeptical of Tamboran and would like to hear their side. How to they get their projections without having drilled a well yet? I suspect they have a short them goal of selling off a large interest to a bigger exploration company. And why do the anti-fracking side refuse to acknowledge any potential benefits? I just gave a job reference today for a neighbours son who used to work for me. He is going to Canada to work for an oil company as an engineer. We refuse to develop our own resources so our kids can emigrate.

I don't think is an issue of developing our own resources, in this case it's really down to the method of extraction itself.

Grecco

Came across this and thought it may be of interest

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=115705

bbam

Grecco wrote: »

Came across this and thought it may be of interest

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=115705

Indeed..
I've no doubt that a test well can be drilled successfully..
The problem is the bigger picture..

As with many industries it's when full scale production is under way that problems occur... Start running a few hundred of these wells, 24*7 and an "incident" is likely..
An "incident" is likely to range from a minor error to a huge spill of the fracking fluid which contaminates a swathe of land and the water table associated..

I've been associated with high volume production involving some extremely toxic/dangerous chemicals for more than 12 years.... No matter how regulated, controlled, documented and inspected the process is, accidents occur.. When it hits 3am and a guy has been on a few nights, no sleep during the day... wrong lever, wrong button, step in a procedure missed, even when a secondary buddy system is in place... it can and does all go wrong... It's the people living near bye that are left with the legacy of this mistake, maybe for a few weeks, maybe for ever..

tuppence

bbam wrote: »

Indeed..
I've no doubt that a test well can be drilled successfully..
The problem is the bigger picture..

As with many industries it's when full scale production is under way that problems occur... Start running a few hundred of these wells, 24*7 and an "incident" is likely..
An "incident" is likely to range from a minor error to a huge spill of the fracking fluid which contaminates a swathe of land and the water table associated..

I've been associated with high volume production involving some extremely toxic/dangerous chemicals for more than 12 years.... No matter how regulated, controlled, documented and inspected the process is, accidents occur.. When it hits 3am and a guy has been on a few nights, no sleep during the day... wrong lever, wrong button, step in a procedure missed, even when a secondary buddy system is in place... it can and does all go wrong... It's the people living near bye that are left with the legacy of this mistake, maybe for a few weeks, maybe for ever..

And when and if that spill were to happen, our agricultural export markets won'nt differentiate between meath and Leitrim, everyone is tarred with the one brush. Thats why its a national issue.:(

tuppence

International coverage from yesterday


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/03/201234193114340562.html

deCourcey chick

First peer reviewed scientific publication on pollution due to fracking has been published and an interview with the author is at the following link. VERY damning indeed. Methane found at dangerous levels on loads of drinking wells in Marcellus shale region due to fracking. I understand that 50% of frack wells leak over the lifetime of the well. Not good odds I would think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq0LFhw-klM

Digitaljunkie

Quote:

Calvin Tillman is the former mayor of Dish, Texas, a small community which was one of the first in the world to encounter ‘fracking’ – extraction of shale gas by hydraulic fracturing

Early last year he moved his family out of the town, saying that the effects of fracking and industrialisation were causing health problems for his children. He has since become an advocate on the subject.

Link to full article -

tuppence

North West Network based in Sligo are doing a call out:

They are entering a float, in the St. Patrick's Day Parade, and still have room for some volunteers/paraders, including supervised children - Parade starts at 12, so would need to group at Mail Coach Road, Sligo at 11.30am, wear black. Please contact youthmardingo@gmail.com if you are interested in coming along and being part of the grassroots group's campaign to ban fracking in Ireland, Europe and BEYOND. Together we need to know that we can make a difference.

tuppence

More scientific research info coming out

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120319095008.htm

deCourcey chick

Very interesting tuppence. I asked our local Coillte manager if leasing and/or selling Coillte lands for placing fracking pads was something they were considering and whether this is in line with their policy. I got a reply that Coillte would be sending me a company response shortly. Anybody had any feedback from Coillte yet?

reilig

In balance, there is a short article in today's IFJ which interviews the Governor of Montana and gives his experience of Fracking in his native land. It views the issues with fracking and the benefits of fracking from a different angle to those that we in Ireland have been exposed to recently. Its a short read, but interesting.

tuppence

deCourcey chick wrote: »

Very interesting tuppence. I asked our local Coillte manager if leasing and/or selling Coillte lands for placing fracking pads was something they were considering and whether this is in line with their policy. I got a reply that Coillte would be sending me a company response shortly. Anybody had any feedback from Coillte yet?

When in the Dail on Feb 14th tamboran confirmed they had spoken with Coillte. . .
I attch more info that John Mulligan uncoved in Dec. Its a scanned copy of teh Irish Independent article, so pls excuse neck strain! . Differing info by all accounts between head office and local offices apparently but bottom line is they have been meeting. I shall post if further info I find out. Pls keep us informed of your local coillte response. Basically people need to tell their public represenatatives that they wont tolerate fracking coming in the back door like this, if they have concerns. Its up to all of us to stand up on this.

deCourcey chick

Thanks for that. Absolutely we need to act with all tools available. I will let you know when I hear more from Coillte. My grapevine informs me that SLR have been asked by Tamboran to perform the environmental impact assessment. However, there is no reference to this on their website (as yet???). Any info on this?

deCourcey chick

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/for-pennsylvanias-doctors-a-gag-order-on-fracking-chemicals/255030/

PA medics can obtain information from fracking companies about the
composition of fracking fluid, but they are legally obliged to sign an NDA.

Johnboy1951

Pennsylvania law states that companies must disclose the identity and amount of any chemicals used in fracking fluids to any health professional that requests that information in order to diagnosis or treat a patient that may have been exposed to a hazardous chemical. But the provision in the new bill requires those health professionals to sign a confidentiality agreement stating that they will not disclose that information to anyone else -- not even the person they're trying to treat.

How ridiculous can they get ........ would you allow a doctor to treat you for some ailment without any knowledge of what ailment the treatment is for?

I wouldn't .....

deCourcey chick

Indeed! Nor would I.

deCourcey chick

tuppence wrote: »

When in the Dail on Feb 14th tamboran confirmed they had spoken with Coillte. . .
I attch more info that John Mulligan uncoved in Dec. Its a scanned copy of teh Irish Independent article, so pls excuse neck strain! . Differing info by all accounts between head office and local offices apparently but bottom line is they have been meeting. I shall post if further info I find out. Pls keep us informed of your local coillte response. Basically people need to tell their public represenatatives that they wont tolerate fracking coming in the back door like this, if they have concerns. Its up to all of us to stand up on this.

Just got my reply from my Coillte representative re their relationship with Tamboran; not exactly new news, judging from the date. See Below:

Statement issued to media in response to queries:

21.2.2012

Coillte has not provided any access to our lands to Tamboran Resources in Leitrim or anywhere else.
Coillte met with Tamboran - at the specific request of that company - to better understand both the general processes involved in hydraulic fracturing and what was being proposed in this specific case.
This meeting was purely for informational purposes on the part of Coillte. Coillte has no commercial agreement or relationship whatsoever with Tamboran Resources in relation to any proposed projects in the North West or in any location.
Coillte has not indicated any level of support for this project or that it would sell or dispose of lands for this project.

ENDS

Tom Byrne


Head of Corporate Communications | Coillte
Dublin Road, Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow, Ireland

E tom.byrne@coillte.ie
T +353 1 2015231
F +353 1 2011199
M +353 86 8104224

tuppence

Pls for your information purposes: Lecture tomorrow by visiting German expert on fracking.


How Public opinion and the media have turned against FRACKING in Germany’


Helmut Fehr, Geoscientist and German Green Party councillor will give a presentation in the Rainbow Ballroom Glenfarne on the topic of ‘How Public opinion and the media have turned against FRACKING in Germany’. Last August Helmut spoke to a crowded house in Drumshanbo, about his experiences in Westphalia where the community learnt gradually how to interpret the language of the companies to be able to gain a full picture of the process. In his last seminar helmut gave further stark warnings that are relevant to Ireland. He spoke of how the companies engage the politicians with promises of tax revenues and jobs, promises he expressed were empty as it meant displacing other jobs.
Helmut Fehr is an ambassador of a model to ensure that there is proper public particpation in decesion making concerning this technique. There is currently a moratorium in place in Westphalia.


Get an opportunity to hear his first hand experience and make your own mind up.
Lecture will be followed by a questions and answer session.

In Ballroom of Romance, Glenfarne, Co. Leitrim on Mon Apr 2nd at 7.30pm.
Entry Free.


For further information please contact: 086 0870090

Digitaljunkie

Won't able to make it myself, would love to here any report if anyone's attending. Sounds like an interesting one.

deCourcey chick

Don't think I can go either. Hopefully it might be recorded on put up on net...

garth-marenghi

I didnt make the event myself but as far as I know it was recorded. If i find out its up on the web somewhere will post here. In the meantime here is a report on the event. There are other Fracking related articles on this website too.
http://www.mylocalnews.ie/articles/529/13/love-leitrim-260567/don-t-sell-your-soul-to-gas-companies-37599/

deCourcey chick

Thanks garth-marenghi.

corazon

Well it looks like we are going to get to hear the other side of the argument. Fracknation just got funded through small donations online and will show some of the positive economic effects from fracking. It should make a good counterpoint to Gaslands. Good to see that the environment/green lobby is not the only voice been heard. I hope it is more balanced than Gaslands. It is been made by Irish film producers so it will be interesting to see how they cover our local angle. Maybe we can set up a screening?

garth-marenghi

corazon wrote: »

Well it looks like we are going to get to hear the other side of the argument. Fracknation just got funded through small donations online and will show some of the positive economic effects from fracking. It should make a good counterpoint to Gaslands. Good to see that the environment/green lobby is not the only voice been heard. I hope it is more balanced than Gaslands. It is been made by Irish film producers so it will be interesting to see how they cover our local angle. Maybe we can set up a screening?

Those voicing concerns about fracking are not just from the environment/green lobby. They come from all walks of life, political/non-political/different professions/members of the local community and are raising serious concerns about the process. You may have heard that Tamboran recently hired a new PR company and are regularly in local and national media promoting Hydraulic Fracturing. They have a huge amount of resources to put their point of view across compared to those in opposition.