Farming and Gas Fracking

tuppence

Update on the Kiltyclogher antifracking run

http://www.mylocalnews.ie/articles/529/13/love-leitrim-260567/love-leitrim-brave-run-for-antifracking-cause-39504/

tuppence

Manorhamilton agricultural show, today sat 28th.

tuppence

Another good article by Sligo today, covering this issue in far more depth than many more others out there, who should be.
http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php...e508115af5ac2b

Johnboy1951

tuppence wrote: »

Another good article by Sligo today, covering this issue in far more depth than many more others out there, who should be.
http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php...e508115af5ac2b

Incorrect URL ..... here is the correct one ......

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=21456&PHPSESSID=1625c7a0a90288d912a817551a6ecd07

Good loser

meenaghman wrote: »

Although actually given this information which drives a cart and horse through Tamboran's business plan

>>>
Right now everyone's calmed down about the 55 bn .. perhaps we could spot the mistake...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...311046794.html

2.2 Trillion cubic feet / 1000 = 2.2 Billion cubic feet.
multiplied by 2.50 dollars = 5.5 billion dollars of Gas... Hardly worth getting out of bed for :-)
Thats 5.5 billion dollars over 30 years versus Agri business approx 8bn euros / year...


That makes no sense. Most likely outcome (a certainty?) is that agri business will not be affected atall and most of the output from the fracking will be a net gain to the economy.

tuppence

Good loser wrote: »

meenaghman wrote: »

Although actually given this information which drives a cart and horse through Tamboran's business plan

>>>
Right now everyone's calmed down about the 55 bn .. perhaps we could spot the mistake...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...311046794.html

2.2 Trillion cubic feet / 1000 = 2.2 Billion cubic feet.
multiplied by 2.50 dollars = 5.5 billion dollars of Gas... Hardly worth getting out of bed for :-)
Thats 5.5 billion dollars over 30 years versus Agri business approx 8bn euros / year...


That makes no sense. Most likely outcome (a certainty?) is that agri business will not be affected atall and most of the output from the fracking will be a net gain to the economy.

The industres are not compatible. Farming and food production is built on good reputation. That will be lost.

Two of the most prestigious researchers in the area who investigated animals exposed (who act as markers to future human health) Bamberger and Oswald say of the situation in America where this industry has been let loose unchecked
"Without rigorous scintific studies, the gas drillling boom sweeping the world
will remain an uncontrolled health experiment on an enormous scale and we will be the laboratry mice"
They have seen compelling evidence linking the industry with death and reproductive diorders of animals and this is just data that is coming through, that should act as warning. In Ireland I hope we make a stand on this before this industries pr machine try to make our people its guinea pigs too. (12 counties are licenced) Agriculture and tourism will be the economic casualties. If we do allow this industry in, it also says something about our values. If we are willing to sacrifice human health for essentially what will be short term and in the most part others gain, we will have crossed a rubicon imo on our nations moral compass. I hope for my childrens sake I never see that day
From 13mins in researchers speak on thieir peer reviewed report of observed case studies
http://shaleshockmedia.org/2012/08/06/bambergeroswald-impacts-of-fracking-on-human-animal-health-532012-endicott/

tuppence

This guy who is International Chair of Friends of the Earth is over making a special trip to Ireland. He is speaking with Sr. Majella Carmody on the panel who has been working with communitis in Africa who had to pick up the pieces after companies came in and exploited their resources and left them with the pollution. Friday 17th in Manorhamilton and then Mayo and Dublin.
http://www.activelink.ie/node/9786

Good loser

tuppence wrote: »

This guy who is International Chair of Friends of the Earth is over making a special trip to Ireland. He is speaking with Sr. Majella Carmody on the panel who has been working with communitis in Africa who had to pick up the pieces after companies came in and exploited their resources and left them with the pollution. Friday 17th in Manorhamilton and then Mayo and Dublin.
http://www.activelink.ie/node/9786

Couldn't care less about Sr Carmody or Friends of the Earth. Why on Earth is this topic in the F and F forum. Only an agitprop for extremists and wasters.

tuppence

We need to learn from what happening in other countries and our recent past.


Nnimmo Bassey award winning human and environemental right winner said The Government in Ireland... would “become the shoeshine boy of the [shale gas] industry” if it allowed fracking to take place anywhere in Ireland.
http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=21580

"Extremists and agitators" oh dear its sad when the scapecoating occurs as its trying to obscure the reality.
Here is a poignant clip showing the cross section of our community proudly supporting a recent local event against fracking. Fracking could have the potential to be the biggest threat nationally to farming (and tourism, our public health) in this country if we allow it and thats why its is heartening to see the people come out like this, Its not the usual suspects. This issue is very much led by locals and if environemetal groups seek to now support what is a national issue they should be appaluded.

But be under no illusion the community owns this as too the wider public needs to stand up too and cant afford to sleepwalk into it and think its something for others to deal with. 12 counties are licenced for this and it will be in everyones field unless people join together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrEvWtRXRC8

Voodoo_rasher

Taken from Sligo Champion, Aug 22nd.



"...Subject to an exploration licence being granted by the Irish authorities, Tamboran believes exploration drilling could commence by 2014.
Tamboran says it will not utilise any chemicals in its hydraulic fracturing process in Leitrim.
Opponents of fracking will know in November if Tamboran is to apply for an exploration license to commence trial drilling.
The company was granted permission to carry out surveys in the area but to date has no actual drilling license."


Should there not already be liaising between Leitrim/North West and



Lancashire, Eng which is also under threat from the 'fracking-pushers..?

garth-marenghi

Kiltyclogher farmer gives his perspective on Fracking in this weeks Sligo Champion
http://www.sligochampion.ie/news/kiltyclogher-farmer-pollution-is-my-fear-3211009.html

tuppence

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

Taken from Sligo Champion, Aug 22nd.



"...Subject to an exploration licence being granted by the Irish authorities, Tamboran believes exploration drilling could commence by 2014.
Tamboran says it will not utilise any chemicals in its hydraulic fracturing process in Leitrim.
Opponents of fracking will know in November if Tamboran is to apply for an exploration license to commence trial drilling.
The company was granted permission to carry out surveys in the area but to date has no actual drilling license."


Should there not already be liaising between Leitrim/North West and



Lancashire, Eng which is also under threat from the 'fracking-pushers..?

Hi yes theres alot of commuication gong on internationally, and between Britain and Ireland. We are indebted to people like Jessica Ernst, helmut fehr etc giving up their time selflessly. and warning us about this with their first hand testimonies.
Farmers here can have a huge impact and engage their local IFA groups to mobilise against this keeping in mind the November date. We ourselves have heard and seen enough to call for a ban. But the governement at the very least cannot be let grant the next stage of the licence (exploration licence) to the company especially when there is further research by the EPA being conducted. If they let the next stage through and then even halt it this gives the company the upperhand. It means the government are playing optics, and they havent listened to the public concerns. Farmers need to mobilise and halt the process from here and ensure that the governement are in no doubt that they should be choosing farmin not fracking and do this initially by not letting any further licences be granted in November.

Good loser

If any county needs jobs it's Leitrim and the sooner the better. I farm at far end of country and have zero worries about the impact of fracking on farming.

The topic should be in another forum - where I'll never find it.

corazon

From today's Irish Times, perfect timing too with the recent gas price increases. Don't forget natural gas prices are down 80% in the USA since they started fracking.





Fracking firm finds potential in Clare

A SECOND overseas firm seeking to start fracking in Ireland has confirmed initial positive results concerning a natural gas field.

UK-based Enegi Oil had already said analysis from field studies examining the hydraulic fracturing potential for shale gas in the Clare basin was “extremely encouraging”.

Enegi Oil’s licence extends to 495sq km covering much of west Clare, including the entire Loop Head peninsula. Its plans have already run into local opposition, while members of Clare County Council have also outlined their opposition to fracking in the county.

In an update on its work in the Clare basin, Enegi Oil said: “The results of sample analysis undertaken to date have been extremely encouraging, indicating a higher prospectivity than was previously anticipated.”

It added: “The total organic carbon analysis has confirmed that the shale is a rich source rock containing an abundance of preserved organic matter.”

Enegi said analysis indicated the shale was “of lower maturity than previously recorded in literature, which enhances the potential for gas preservation at depth in the basin”.

The company has engaged a firm, Fugro Robertson, “to undertake further testing in order to gain a fuller understanding of the prospectivity of the region”.

meenaghman

Of course they're going to claim 'initially positive results' .. They've got investors to keep onboard, and similar to Tamboran are hoping to flip the licence or Joint Venture.

Amid all the hype from Tamboran about all the gas underneath Leitrim and Fermanagh was this from the labs they paid to do analysis of the cores.

Summary of one of their reports... others were similar.
"The Benbulben and Bundoran Shale formations of Big Dog-1 well have marginal hydrocarbon potential, due to relatively low TOC. Other properties such as vitrinite maturity and rock properties show good potential, particularly in the Bundoran Shale"

In other news, Nigerian General has 100 million dollars..all you need to do is ...yada yada yada .. you know the deal. Don't believe everything you hear.

tuppence

Sorry about the late notice about this but only informed about this event yesterday, so anyone near Athlone, please try to get to this event if interested:

AN INTRODUCTION TO HYDRAULIC FRACTURING (FRACKING) by HELMUT FEHR, German geoscientist & well-respected authority on HYDRAULIC FRACTURING ---Where: HODSON BAY HOTEL, ATHLONE---When: THURSDAY, 18th OCTOBER at 8:00 pm---AN INFORMATION ROOM WILL BE AVAILABLE FROM 7:00 pm

Black Smoke

Where there is oil, there is money:P http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b44c84ea-1889-11e2-80af-00144feabdc0.html#axzz29kIpr7nd


Boom Town finds prosperity - at a price

By John McDermott in Williston, North Dakota


The aisles of the Walmart in Williston, North Dakota, are full of something unusual for a supermarket in the US heartland – men.

Oil workers coated in dirt and dust, dressed in overalls and fluorescent jackets, peruse microwave meals and tinned meats. A sign outside advertises shelf-stacking jobs for $17 per hour – almost $10 above the federal minimum wage. The car park is clogged with trucks and 18-wheelers; on the approach road, a cortege of exploration awaits its turn.

Welcome to Boom Town, USA. Williston sits 10,000 feet above the Bakken shale formation – possibly the largest oil deposit in the country.

It has taken 400m years, but technology – horizontal drilling and high-pressure “fracking” – has opened the rock and with it an oil reserve believed to be bigger than Saudi Arabia’s. This bounty has the potential to transform the national economy along with US foreign policy: why pursue realpolitik in the Middle East when there is enough energy back home?

Since 2004, when the first horizontal well was drilled in North Dakota, towns such as Williston have had little time to reflect. Geology and geography mean that shale oil exploration in the state is relatively labour-intensive. Williston’s official population has grown from 12,000 in 2006 to 16,000 in 2012, but locals put the true total at closer to 25,000. Unemployment is something that happens elsewhere.

Sweat and oil have brought money but also problems. Demand outpaces supply in almost every market: housing, transport, sewerage and labour. An erstwhile sleepy town, dormant since the previous oil boom in the early 1980s, is still coming to terms with the violent welding of tradition, testosterone and creative destruction.

At the Walmart car park, Howard Kanaffler places his shopping in the back of his company truck. The Minnesotan came to Williston for “money, no other reason”. He was out of work for a year before taking a $100,000-a-year job laying pipelines. He has saved up $10,000 since arriving in June, which he is accruing for his family back home. “But I feel sorry for these young guys. Three months out here: bye bye girlfriend.”

For the women playing volleyball at the Raymond Family Center recreation facility, concerns about the speed of change are coupled with a desire to be open to newcomers. “Last year was crazy”, says Cheryl Powers, an oilrig supervisor. “When [CNBC television host] Jim Cramer told everyone to come here, people just showed up with nothing but backpacks.”

Williston’s housing market has been overwhelmed. The median house price has more than doubled in the past three years; monthly rents for two-bedroom apartments are as high as $4,000. Workers unable to find accommodation in “man camps” – prefabricated housing complexes – sleep in caravans or cars in parking lots. The Raymond Family Center has recently limited shower times to 6am to 2pm, so that locals can use the facilities unencumbered by new arrivals.

“The old folks worry that it’s not how it used to be. The new folks worry why they have to spend 45 minutes waiting in line at Walmart,” observes Tammy Lyson, a physical education teacher at a local school.

The mothers among the volleyball players worry about their children’s safety. The number of recorded crimes tripled between 2010 and 2011, and Williston’s police admit to being overwhelmed.

“There is just a deluge of men,” says one woman who does not want to be named. “A certain sense of safety has been lost as well as a loss of innocence.” However, she does not pine for the “ghost town” version of Williston that she left in the late 1980s before returning this year. “I personally think [the shale oil boom] has had a good effect – the diversity of the population is a good thing.”

All the women at the recreation centre are keen to point out that the trouble derives from a minority of new arrivals. However, until Williston’s public infrastructure catches up with its private infrastructure, all expect the problems to continue.

The oil boom has brought prosperity, but its impact on housing and labour markets has been highly disruptive. New teachers and police officers, for example, are hard to attract because housing is expensive.

The high wages on offer in oil jobs – about $100,000 per year for unskilled workers – make it hard for the local service industry to keep staff. “The oil industry sets the price,” says Jeff Peck, owner of Williston’s busy McDonald’s. “It’s the inflated economy that we all live in.”

New employees make $10.50 per hour – $3.25 more than the federal minimum wage – and receive a $300 signing-on bonus. A Big Mac costs a dollar more than a month ago: as wages rise, so, too, do food costs. Yet Mr Peck still loses eight out of 10 staff within two weeks.

Williston State College is building a $70m sports centre partly funded by tax revenues from the oil boom. Construction workers live in cabins next to the building site. But enrolment is down, according to Eric Peterson, the college’s basketball coach. “It’s hard when kids with no education can go make $100,000 working on the oilfields.”

The history of the American frontier is the transformation of nowhere to somewhere. “He must abandon the old ideal and the old gods,” wrote Jack London about the Klondike gold rush in the late 1890s. Change is often violent, but soon becomes the norm. In Williston, long-time residents are in shock at the pace of change but few wish the oil was put back in the well.

At the recreation centre, Ms Powers explains that she was called “oilfield trash” when she arrived here during the previous boom. “I understand the concern. But eventually oilfield trash becomes your neighbour.”

colrow

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/9774436.stm

Theres a series of clips from an interview of Shells CEO about Fracking from the BBC's Hard Talk programme

jay gatsby

I have no connection with this topic at all but there is an article in this Month's National Geographic which deals with Fracking. There is a very cool photo which caught my attention, it shows a woman running the tap in her kitchen from which she has lit a match. "Apparently" caused by gas released from fracking.

Anyway - might be worth a look through it for those interested, sorry i don't have a link but I saw it in the print edition

reilig

jay gatsby wrote: »

I have no connection with this topic at all but there is an article in this Month's National Geographic which deals with Fracking. There is a very cool photo which caught my attention, it shows a woman running the tap in her kitchen from which she has lit a match. "Apparently" caused by gas released from fracking.

Anyway - might be worth a look through it for those interested, sorry i don't have a link but I saw it in the print edition

My grandparents used to be able to do that. They had a deep bored well which was in an area of high sulpher water. (Also known as spa water). When they were boring the well, they were able to light the gas coming off it also. It didn't take fracking to release this gas

Johnboy1951

reilig wrote: »

My grandparents used to be able to do that. They had a deep bored well which was in an area of high sulpher water. (Also known as spa water). When they were boring the well, they were able to light the gas coming off it also. It didn't take fracking to release this gas

True ...... but fracking can be the cause of gas being released in such a manner where it was not otherwise occurring.

reilig

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

True ...... but fracking can be the cause of gas being released in such a manner where it was not otherwise occurring.

Yes, but as i said. In this case it wasn't. I read about that lady with the flamable gas coming out of her taps. She lives in a similar high sulpher area to where my grandparents lived. A lot of the locals claim that they could light the water coming from their taps before fracking began. There are 2 sides to every story. Its better to listen to both sides before formulating an opinion.

jay gatsby

reilig wrote: »

Yes, but as i said. In this case it wasn't. I read about that lady with the flamable gas coming out of her taps. She lives in a similar high sulpher area to where my grandparents lived. A lot of the locals claim that they could light the water coming from their taps before fracking began. There are 2 sides to every story. Its better to listen to both sides before formulating an opinion.

That's Gas - please forgive the pun. I had never heard of this happening before. To be perfectly honest I didn't read all the article, it was the photo that caught my eye, as it often does in National Geographic.

There's a brilliant article on 3ooo year old Sequoia trees too by the by.

colrow

Just a couple of thoughts, Fracking has brought down the price of gas in the USA by 80%, and now a company wants to spend 600 million on developing a gas terminal in North Kerry, so that they can tanker the gas over here.

Whats th point in that if we can harvest our own gas and export it through the proposed interconnector to europe.

Also I tested the control systems for 35 wells in In Amenas, at the factory where they were made, it took about a year, they wanted me to go to site but I'm a bit old for that.
People have died because of the state of affairs there, and generally in the middle east.

So thats another arguement to develop our own energy supplies, why risk our peoples lives, in hostile conditions, and especially where there serious social issues, caused by power bases versus religon. I won't say what I think of the religon involved but you can guess what it is

Qualitymark

reilig wrote: »

Solar panels are great for heating water but not much use for producing electricity of fueling cars.

I've been writing letters to ministers and TDs suggesting mass-buying and -installation of solar water heating systems. If most houses in Ireland had their water heated by solar, it would slash the country's carbon footprint, and release electricity capacity for industry.

My suggestion is that the government would buy the panels and specialised immersions, and offer them to householders (including farmers, of course); they would be paid for on the householder's ESB bill over five years, so there would be no cost whatsoever to the government - or to the householders, who would have free hot water for most of the year after that, cutting their energy bills considerably.

It would also get many of the plumbers and electricians who were thrown out of work with the collapse of the building industry back into work. This would feed into the economy.

This would use economies of scale to get the solar thermal systems working cheaper, and would allow individuals who couldn't afford a big lump of money to pay for it over a graduated period.

Last time this was used was when the first central heating - storage heaters - were installed all over Ireland with people paying for them gradually on their ESB bills. Worked well then.

So far, I've only got PFOs from the politicians, or else no answer.

Maudi

colrow wrote: »

Just a couple of thoughts, Fracking has brought down the price of gas in the USA by 80%, and now a company wants to spend 600 million on developing a gas terminal in North Kerry, so that they can tanker the gas over here.

Whats th point in that if we can harvest our own gas and export it through the proposed interconnector to europe.

Also I tested the control systems for 35 wells in In Amenas, at the factory where they were made, it took about a year, they wanted me to go to site but I'm a bit old for that.
People have died because of the state of affairs there, and generally in the middle east.

So thats another arguement to develop our own energy supplies, why risk our peoples lives, in hostile conditions, and especially where there serious social issues, caused by power bases versus religon. I won't say what I think of the religon involved but you can guess what it is

there is no possible chance on gods green earth that fracking would bring down the price of gas in or be any benifit to the people of ireland while the current criminals that have hi jacked the country are in power..

Qualitymark

Gasland is watchable online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phCibwj396I

colrow

Maudi wrote: »

there is no possible chance on gods green earth that fracking would bring down the price of gas in or be any benifit to the people of ireland while the current criminals that have hi jacked the country are in power..

There must be some mileage in it, if the septics can make a profit by exporting it here. Not only that they're looking for eu grant aid to build it.

If the state puts a royalty on every litre/kg/therm produced say 10c for arguments sake, then that will be a sizeable income, especially if there is an escalator in effect to increase the royalties, by 10% a year.

The Shetland Isles gets a royalty on every barrel of crude shipped through Sullom Voe, Look at Norways Soverign Fund, we could have the same here.

It needs the People to Speak !!

corazon

Why wouldn't gas prices come down here the same as the US? Gas is not traded like oil and markets tend to be local not international. Fracking has also brought down electricity prices in the US and reduced carbon emissions as gas replaces coal.

colrow

I'm sure if gas was fracked here, the price would come down, and it wouldn't be worth the while of the septics to ship it here.