Farming and Gas Fracking

Voodoo_rasher

reilig wrote: »

.. If our government extracted it themselves, wouldn't the profits go some way to funding this country of ours?

They already signed the Corrib gas field of to shell. Surely someone needs to wake up and see reality?

Govt. won't do that as thats not in the 'national self-interest'.

Does a body of teachers & solicitors have the entrepreneurial spirt to explore for these resources?

The lazy, easiest option:-

Licences for future oil/gas exploration , unless you were aware, went to the

highest bidders late last year. Sir Tony O'Reilly was one of the lucky bidders,

as you'd know. 6 or more licences.

MOSSAD

Johnboy1951

I am unsure what the point of this clip is supposed to be ....... yes there is gas in aquifers in some locations ...... and yes some people have reported such incidences .... but how is that relevant to a new appearance of such problems?

To me it just shows that the gas coming out of the tap is likely true (contrary to some claims about it) ...... and as it began happening in those two houses immediately after fracking, then the likely cause of this is that the fracking disturbed the rock formation and allowed the gas to get into that water supply. It was not there prior to the fracking.

I doubt anyone believes that fracking actually creates gas! So what the fracking seems to have done is give the existing gas a path to the water supply for those dwellings.

I cannot understand how this clip throws any new light on anything .....

MOSSAD

"People lit their water before fracking..." it's nothing new, it's often happened, a couple of isolated cases versus no flames from the taps of a city like Fort Worth pop 6 million people.
We even have had it here in Ireland-will o' the wisp on the bogs...slanted reporting to push an agenda without objectively looking at all the facts

Johnboy1951

MOSSAD wrote: »

"People lit their water before fracking..." it's nothing new, it's often happened, a couple of isolated cases versus no flames from the taps of a city like Fort Worth pop 6 million people.
We even have had it here in Ireland-will o' the wisp on the bogs...slanted reporting to push an agenda without objectively looking at all the facts

No one has denied any of the instances of previous events of gas on bogs or out of taps etc etc.

The two NEW instances of this happening, portrayed in the film, have been linked to the fracking.

Are you saying that is not true, or what exactly are you saying?

MOSSAD

It's called biased reporting. Fox implied that water igniting from the taps was only happening because of fracking. He needs to tell us that this phenomenon is not new.

Johnboy1951

MOSSAD wrote: »

It's called biased reporting. Fox implied that water igniting from the taps was only happening because of fracking. He needs to tell us that this phenomenon is not new.

I understood what was said to mean that the ignitable gas from the taps shown was due to fracking ..... it was not there prior to fracking, but was soon afterwards.

That also seemed to be what he was - rather badly - trying to say in the clip you posted too.

tuppence

Rob Doyle (Veterinary surgeon) with be holding an information night on Hydraulic fracturing-Fracking tonight in the community centre, Kiltyclogher, Leitrim. 8pm. All welcome

MOSSAD

tuppence wrote: »

Rob Doyle (Veterinary surgeon) with be holding an information night on Hydraulic fracturing-Fracking tonight in the community centre, Kiltyclogher, Leitrim. 8pm. All welcome

Fascinating....vets who are geological experts....seem to have missed the geology lectures aomng all the others

garth-marenghi

MOSSAD wrote: »

Fascinating....vets who are geological experts....seem to have missed the geology lectures aomng all the others

As already been discussed eleswhere Fracking has the potential to damage our water supply, and both human and animal health. At no point does Rob Doyle claim to be a "geological expert". In his capacity as a vet and concerned citizen he is presenting information on hydraulic fracturing to a public audience. While it may not be his own original geological research he draws upon the work of Professor Charles Ingraffea etc and other European peer reviewed work and is putting forward his concerns about the process as a citizen and an animal health professional. Farming is an intrinsically important indigenous industry in this country. Any potential environmental damage or health scare such as the release of Benzene into the food chain could cause irreversible harm to our farming reputation. Rob Doyle as a vet is at the cold face of this threat to agriculture. Surely he should be commended for coming forward to express his concerns like all other people from every walk of life who who are simliarily concerned.

Builderfromhell

I finally found a site that seems to be both informative and objective on fracking;
http://frackingfreeireland.org/

reilig

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I finally found a site that seems to be both informative and objective on fracking;
http://frackingfreeireland.org/

Its objective allright, but it only gives one side of the story. Hardly informative if you want both sides of the story . . . . .

Keep the frogs in and the frackers out!

corazon

Study: Fracking Does Not Cause Groundwater Pollution

The study concluded that instances of groundwater pollution in areas where fracking is taking place was not caused by the fracking process itself. Instance of environmental hazards were caused by factors common to all oil and gas operations, including casing failures and the mishandling of waste water once it is brought above ground for storage and eventual processing at a waste treatment plant.
The study focused on three areas where fracking is taking place, the Barnett Shale in North Texas, the Marcellus Shale in Pennsylvania, New York and parts of Appalachia, and the Haynesville Shale in western Louisiana and northeast Texas.
The purpose of the study, a spokesperson said, is to help to separate fact from fiction and to provide governments with information they will need to enact regulations to ensure responsible shale gas development.

Digitaljunkie

corazon wrote: »

Study: Fracking Does Not Cause Groundwater Pollution

The study concluded that instances of groundwater pollution in areas where fracking is taking place was not caused by the fracking process itself. Instance of environmental hazards were caused by factors common to all oil and gas operations, including casing failures and the mishandling of waste water once it is brought above ground for storage and eventual processing at a waste treatment plant.
The study focused on three areas where fracking is taking place, the Barnett Shale in North Texas, the Marcellus Shale in Pennsylvania, New York and parts of Appalachia, and the Haynesville Shale in western Louisiana and northeast Texas.
The purpose of the study, a spokesperson said, is to help to separate fact from fiction and to provide governments with information they will need to enact regulations to ensure responsible shale gas development.

It would be interesting to find out who funded that study ?

Johnboy1951

http://www.gilmermirror.com/view/full_story/17558331/article-New-Study-Shows-No-Evidence-of-Groundwater-Contamination-from-Hydraulic-Fracturing?instance=special_coverage_bullets_right_column
Faculty members from across The University of Texas at Austin campus participated in the research, which the Energy Institute funded. The Environmental Defense Fund also assisted in developing the scope of work and methodology for the study.

Read the report ....

http://energy.utexas.edu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151&Itemid=71

tuppence

The effect remains the same and damage to agriculture and human health likewise. Set this in context when a Chinese delegation has just been over and we have been courting them for our farming exports.
The damage stems from managing the procedure or inability to be more apt. To think that best practice can and will be maintained in regulation is imo naive. There is no regulation at present able to control this according to the European Commission. And thats before we even get into our tourism jobs, anorther industry relaint on ur green image.


http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=18758

tuppence

Breaking news on an international perspective of others who have been through this and offer Irealnd a warning

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0220/breaking30.html

fodda

tuppence wrote: »

Breaking news on an international perspective of others who have been through this and offer Irealnd a warning

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0220/breaking30.html

Get rid.

Country folk who are the ones affected by this get nothing just so city dwellers and townies can have the convenient gas supply.

It isnt needed and there are other energy sources out there which are much better.

Digitaljunkie

reilig wrote: »

What bugs me about this who Gas thing is that the experts have estimated that there is potentially billions of cubis meters of gas that could be extracted in North leitrim. Dangers, pros and anti's aside, are we just going to give this away to an American Company who can reap all the profits on this?

Our country is close to €100 billion in debt, and we have enough gas reserves in one small place to ensure that we don't need to import gas to this country for the next 25 years. If our government extracted it themselves, wouldn't the profits go some way to funding this country of ours?

They already signed the Corrib gas field of to shell. Surely someone needs to wake up and see reality?

Well "pardon the pun" considering the mess that the so called gas companies make after well fracking, imagine the mess the Irish government would make of it. For god sake fracking in a major “no no” on a small Island that relies on tourism and agriculture are we as a nation really that inept.

tuppence

Here is Jessica Ernsts last two seminars one in the ballroom of Romance, Glenfarne, leitrim, at 8pm tonight, Friday .

And one just announced in Dublin. in the Teachers Club, Parnell Square. Sat 25th at 4pm.

http://www.activelink.ie/node/8264

reilig

tuppence wrote: »

Here is Jessica Ernsts last two seminars one in the ballroom of Romance, Glenfarne, leitrim, at 8pm tonight, Friday .

And one just announced in Dublin. in the Teachers Club, Parnell Square. Sat 25th at 4pm.

http://www.activelink.ie/node/8264

I was in the Bush Hotel to see her. Talk about not having a vested interest. The woman stands to be a multi-millionaire if she can prove that the fracking contaminated her water supply. I found her too sensational. She wants to strike fear into everybody and about everything. Once again, it was scare mongering by only presenting some of the facts - the ones that cause the most sensation.

Poor form on the side of the anti-fracking group!!!!

Locally, it has lit a fire under a number of serial activists. (The type of people who, when you see them driving up your laneway, you lock the doors and close the curtains.)

I'm well convinced that fracking won't happen in leitrim (and very glad). But there will be a cost to communities. This cost won't be the loss of income or jobs. It will be the division of communities. It has already begun in ours with verbal insults, jibes and threats from the small number of people who feel that they need to display the full force of their objections to fracking towards those who just want to get on with their lives. Recruitment for the anti-fracking group in our community is well under way with (undesirable) people knocking on doors on a regular basis. Most times they are being told where to go. It can only lead to trouble!!!

corazon

Reilig,

I heard her on Shannonside yesterday and was unimpressed. You are right about the fracking issue dividing communities. I saw it first hand in Pennsylvania but the real divide was not pro- or anti-fracking. Neighbors were divided over the deals they got with the gas companies. Some got very small money and some became millionaires depending on how well they negotiated. It looks set to be a divisive issue in Leitrim. The border is going to be an interesting factor. The large find in the US is on the NY/PA border but NY has not allowed fracking yet. NY land owners are pressurising the state to allow it. Could see the same here. On the broader economic benefits natural gas prices have fallen 75% in the US in the last few years and and electricity prices are down 50%. What could this do to the wider economy in Ireland?

Electricity Declines 50% as Shale Spurs Natural Gas Glut: Energy

Digitaljunkie

reilig wrote: »

I was in the Bush Hotel to see her. Talk about not having a vested interest. The woman stands to be a multi-millionaire if she can prove that the fracking contaminated her water supply.

So your saying that people are not entitled to recourse if their water supply is contaminated by fracking. And your questioning her morals? You sound like you should be in government with the rest, who care not about their land, only their pockets.

reilig

Digitaljunkie wrote: »

So your saying that people are not entitled to recourse if their water supply is contaminated by fracking. And your questioning her morals? You sound like you should be in government with the rest, who care not about their land, only their pockets.

That's presumptious.

Did you hear her speak?

She is trying to prove that the fracking company caused the contamination of her water supply. I have no doubt that it did. My point is that any person who has their water supply contaminated is entitled to recourse. This lady has created an exaggerated lawsuit which is so complicated that it will take years to go through the court in order to attract fame as opposed to getting recourse for having her water supply contaminated.

There are a lot of people who say that she doesn't want to prove the contamination at all. She's minting it by telling her story around the world.

Do you know how much she got paid to come to Ireland last week?

Fracking has made her a very wealthy woman. Her high profile lawsuit is for fame and popularity as opposed to recourse for her water supply. She has drawn it out for for a number of years and I'm sure she would like to see it go on for a bit longer.

Fracking has been good to her!

Morals? What are hers?

tuppence

reilig wrote: »

I was in the Bush Hotel to see her. Talk about not having a vested interest. The woman stands to be a multi-millionaire if she can prove that the fracking contaminated her water supply. I found her too sensational. She wants to strike fear into everybody and about everything. Once again, it was scare mongering by only presenting some of the facts - the ones that cause the most sensation.

Poor form on the side of the anti-fracking group!!!!

Locally, it has lit a fire under a number of serial activists. (The type of people who, when you see them driving up your laneway, you lock the doors and close the curtains.)

I'm well convinced that fracking won't happen in leitrim (and very glad). But there will be a cost to communities. This cost won't be the loss of income or jobs. It will be the division of communities. It has already begun in ours with verbal insults, jibes and threats from the small number of people who feel that they need to display the full force of their objections to fracking towards those who just want to get on with their lives. Recruitment for the anti-fracking group in our community is well under way with (undesirable) people knocking on doors on a regular basis. Most times they are being told where to go. It can only lead to trouble!!!

I think its extremely disingenious of you to suggest she is in it for the money. This womans' water is unusable, her land would be rendered likewise if she wanted to sell it , her propertys value dropped through the floor as she said all have, theres huge difficulty in getting insurance and planning, explosion risks, her peace and quite ruined because of the noise pollution, (she likened to jet engines taking off). How much do you think should someone be compensated for the lost of your drinking water alone...let alone the rest. Think of this happening to your community, your neighbours, yourself? What are we all willing to risk nationally and locally? Btw, shes an extremely mild mannered decent woman considering.

And anyway this woman is not standing alone, because the Canadian farmers union are standing up for their members. Alot of their members sadly signed confidntiality agreemnents when they accepted replacement water from the companies that contaminated them, and for that reason werent vocal before. The statement is below.



Sure people can make their own minds up about the presentation and the people. Its on utube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viml9RWIzYo&feature=player_embedded#!


And the other thing is I dont recognise the campaign that you are referring to in your post. If it were the case that some people have hijacked it I woudl be extremely concerned, but I havent heard about this band of what sounds like marauding vigilanties. The only people I hear talking like this otherwise have been the company people, and then small parts of the media who dont do their research and swallow the company line. When you living here it sounds very naieve indeed. I am saddened that some people appear to want an angle, eg either the people behind it are hippies, are tree huggers, are some type of strange folk. This is an extremley popular campaign. The people behind it are your neighbours. I was proud to stand with them together. There was the guts of 400 in the Ballroom of Romance on Friday night. Woudl you call them recruits! These are people coming voluntarily because of concern abuot the place they live. Jessica Ernst had already spoken three times in the region with similar type crowd....It didnt get much media attention, (I have no doubt if other campaigns would have, if they got those numbers.) Have a look at the people. These are local people and they are in essence the ones that you are labeling, them and their councillors representing them. At the moment it is you language that is been divisive and scaremongering to our community.

tuppence

reilig wrote: »

That's presumptious.

Did you hear her speak?

She is trying to prove that the fracking company caused the contamination of her water supply. I have no doubt that it did. My point is that any person who has their water supply contaminated is entitled to recourse. This lady has created an exaggerated lawsuit which is so complicated that it will take years to go through the court in order to attract fame as opposed to getting recourse for having her water supply contaminated.

There are a lot of people who say that she doesn't want to prove the contamination at all. She's minting it by telling her story around the world.

Do you know how much she got paid to come to Ireland last week?

Fracking has made her a very wealthy woman. Her high profile lawsuit is for fame and popularity as opposed to recourse for her water supply. She has drawn it out for for a number of years and I'm sure she would like to see it go on for a bit longer.

Fracking has been good to her!

Morals? What are hers?

Now which is it? is she money hungry or fame hungry?

Dr O Connor the other speaker recommended her, he paid for her ticket. She received no payment for coming over here. There is no angle.

Morals......try altruism?

tuppence

Two extremely imporatant articles in todays Irish independent for peoples interests sake


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tamboran-chief-worked-with-firm-at-centre-of-multimillion-lawsuit-3032918.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/company-behind-7bn-gas-fracking-plan-has-never-used-process-before-3032904.html

reilig

tuppence wrote: »

Now which is it? is she money hungry or fame hungry?

Dr O Connor the other speaker recommended her, he paid for her ticket. She received no payment for coming over here. There is no angle.

Morals......try altruism?[/QUOT


The woman is living off fracking.

Anybody is entitled to recourse for having their water or land compensated. I said that above. However, this woman wants to go above recourse. Several settelements have been offered to her, yet she has refused them all. These settlements have been in the order of millions of dollars.

When we think of all the sick and hungry people in the world, I truly believe that this money could be better spent.

This woman is quite happy to have expences paid trips around the US and the world. Settleing her lawsuit is not in her interest.

garth-marenghi

reilig wrote: »

I was in the Bush Hotel to see her. Talk about not having a vested interest. The woman stands to be a multi-millionaire if she can prove that the fracking contaminated her water supply. I found her too sensational. She wants to strike fear into everybody and about everything. Once again, it was scare mongering by only presenting some of the facts - the ones that cause the most sensation.

Poor form on the side of the anti-fracking group!!!!

Locally, it has lit a fire under a number of serial activists. (The type of people who, when you see them driving up your laneway, you lock the doors and close the curtains.)

I'm well convinced that fracking won't happen in leitrim (and very glad). But there will be a cost to communities. This cost won't be the loss of income or jobs. It will be the division of communities. It has already begun in ours with verbal insults, jibes and threats from the small number of people who feel that they need to display the full force of their objections to fracking towards those who just want to get on with their lives. Recruitment for the anti-fracking group in our community is well under way with (undesirable) people knocking on doors on a regular basis. Most times they are being told where to go. It can only lead to trouble!!!

Serial activists/Undesireables/jibes/threats/insults? Would you care to name who these people are? This is just a lazy inaccurate generalisation about campaigners. Tony Bazley came out with something similiar recently saying anti-frackers were anti-development and threatening members of the community.:rolleyes:. Yourself or Mr Bazley must have missed the fact that numerous County Councils have voted to ban or suspend fracking. If you were ever to attend one of our meetings in Manorhamiliton you would see concerned citizens from every walk of life and political persuasion that are opposed to the process. I suppose the packed meeting halls of locals over the past few months across the region were just the usual "undesireables"? And that all the elected representative locally and nationally that have voiced concerns are serial activists?

To be honest rather than dividing he commmunity I feel this has been a uniting cause for people. Shops display anti-fracking posters, local schools have been involved in Anti-fracking art competitions, thousands have signed online and hard copy petitions, "farming not fracking" t-shirts and car stickers have been really popular, most elected represntatives are at the very least extremley concerned about the process, many local famers have come out in opposition.

Your experience of the campaign is obviously very different. Where are you living that anti-frackers or undesireables as you call them are going around door to door "recruiting" and been told "where to go"? Anyone I have met only lock the doors and close the curtains if its Richard Moorman or other Tamboran employess that are out on the lane ways "recruiting".

reilig

You are entitled to your view as much as I am. You can compare me to whoever you like if you feel that it will have my views seen in a lesser light, just as digitaljunkie compared me to the government. I have made my position clear on fracking on this thread. But I am desperately annoyed with some of the anti-fracking demonstrators in my area. However, I don't think that a forum like this is the place to name these people.

Now don't get me wrong. The vast majority of people in my area are against fracking and some have attended the meetings in Carrick on Shannon and signed the petitions and written to their Councillors, TD's and Ministers and taken the course necessary.

However, a select few have gone beyond this. They have decided that every public place needs an anti fracking sign. They have decised that every house needs to be visited and explained on a one to one basis "how fracking will kill you" (as described by an elderly, vulnerable neighbour). One person ownes farmland and sheds along a main road and was approached to give permission to these people to put a large sign on his shed. He refused, and his name has been black listed across the parish during these house to house calls. These people are going around telling others that this farmer is pro fracking and if fracking ever comes to this area, they will use his land. Its utter slander and bordering on the lines of prosecution.

One of these people involved in this group is a serial objector. Over the last 10 years, he has objected to every planning permission for a house within 3 miles of his own, including my own house in 2007 - costing €00000's of expenses. We are farmers after all. This is a farming forum. Our basic right should be to live on the land that we are farming. Who wouldn't lock their doors and close their curtains when they saw him coming up their drive!! His reason given to me for objecting to my planning permission was that I did not bring my plans to him for his approval before I submitted them. What authority has he got over my plans? He lives 3 miles from me and well beyond the line of sight.

I have missed no facts about the banning or suspending of Fracking. I am fully in support of it. But when you have people like this on your team, they tend to unfairly tarnish the reputation of other people.

While you gave the bright side to the whole campaign above, there is a dark side too!!

garth-marenghi wrote: »

Serial activists/Undesireables/jibes/threats/insults? Would you care to name who these people are? This is just a lazy inaccurate generalisation about campaigners. Tony Bazley came out with something similiar recently saying anti-frackers were anti-development and threatening members of the community.:rolleyes:. Yourself or Mr Bazley must have missed the fact that numerous County Councils have voted to ban or suspend fracking. If you were ever to attend one of our meetings in Manorhamiliton you would see concerned citizens from every walk of life and political persuasion that are opposed to the process. I suppose the packed meeting halls of locals over the past few months across the region were just the usual "undesireables"? And that all the elected representative locally and nationally that have voiced concerns are serial activists?

To be honest rather than dividing he commmunity I feel this has been a uniting cause for people. Shops display anti-fracking posters, local schools have been involved in Anti-fracking art competitions, thousands have signed online and hard copy petitions, "farming not fracking" t-shirts and car stickers have been really popular, most elected represntatives are at the very least extremley concerned about the process, many local famers have come out in opposition.

Your experience of the campaign is obviously very different. Where are you living that anti-frackers or undesireables as you call them are going around door to door "recruiting" and been told "where to go"? Anyone I have met only lock the doors and close the curtains if its Richard Moorman or other Tamboran employess that are out on the lane ways "recruiting".