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Cork GAA Discussion Thread
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klairondavis wrote: »Only messing lad. I doubt Kildare will even get to round 4.
Cork will beat any of the qualifier teams including Tyrone. I would only fancy them against Mayo out of their possible 1/4 final opponents.
I agree tyrone we would beat.I actually think Mayo would beat us.
Id rather Donegal.They look a tired team and Lacey is a huge loss.Mayo under Horan are a fine team and are fresh too.0 -
Thinkstoomuch wrote: »I agree tyrone we would beat.I actually think Mayo would beat us.
Id rather Donegal.They look a tired team and Lacey is a huge loss.Mayo under Horan are a fine team and are fresh too.
Yesterday will stand to Cork and it would be foolish to read too much into it. It's 1995 since Cork last won in Killarney and only Dublin would currently have a better forward line than Kerry. Cork showed enough in the second half to suggest that they're not that far away.
I think Mayo could get caught out by a lack of competitive games. The standard in Connacht outside of Mayo is quite poor as Galway showed this weekend. Cork will be going into August under the radar and if they can find a bit of form then anything is possible.0 -
klairondavis wrote: »Yesterday will stand to Cork and it would be foolish to read too much into it. It's 1995 since Cork last won in Killarney and only Dublin would currently have a better forward line than Kerry. Cork showed enough in the second half to suggest that they're not that far away.
I think Mayo could get caught out by a lack of competitive games. The standard in Connacht outside of Mayo is quite poor as Galway showed this weekend. Cork will be going into August under the radar and if they can find a bit of form then anything is possible.
No disrespect meant but to say we are not far away and anything is possible is just rubbish.You and many people outside the County dont realise its not an easy fix and how bad a manager Counihan is.He has not got a clue with tactics and things by picking a dummy team that he has one trick ahead of the opposition.These mistakes he has made are the same old mistakes that have defined hes career.Cork showed nothing in the second half,Kerry an old team were flat out and stopped playing.They knew the game was won and they had much bigger fish to fry than Cork.They just went through the motions.
When i watched it last night to see Couhinan pointing to the watch as to try and tell Duffy play more time i really thought are were gone that bad now.
Good teams win in the time given.It would have been a joke if we won the game.A false dawn.
To hear him today he said he was at a loss why we were so flat in the first half.I dont know,i dont have the answers but im the manager!!C****t almighty he is just sickening to watch.
I read the times and it was rubbish,plain and simple.It seemed to be on the view Corks young lads were at fault as inexpierence cost them and we will learn more.It had nothing to do with them bar Cahalane was woeful,but it was Kissane,Gould,O Neill, and Canty played out of position that we lost it combined with bad tactics and playing to kerrys strengths and our weaknesses rather than the other way around.
Clancy,Loughrey,Hurley,all played well.O Rourke wasnt great but was not awful either and was no better or worse than gould.And this was a guy making hes debut compared to Gould who has been around for 6 years and as a forward flattered to decieve.
He is in the same group as Cathal Naughton,Seamus Callian,all fine in mickey mouse games but when the heat is on absoultely useless as a forward.
Hes brother is much better and cant even get on the panel.He got 3-2 last week in a club game but Couhinhan says Club form he wont rate it.Its what he sees in training that counts.
The usal B******t.He sees kissane etc doing laps up and down the Pairc and thinks my god what a player.In fairness and i have seen them train ,it is nothing compared to KK training where it is actually better than club games.
People say Cork are not far away and we will sneak under the radar.The point you need to remember is we have a manager who sabbotages the whole set up by being indecisive,tactially unaware,far too loyal to hes tried and trusted players that stumbled to an all ireland.
This has happened time and again.In 2011 it happened.Last year it happened.To think he will turn it around is a big ask.
The papers say Kelly and Sheehan will start so Cork will be better.Thats true.
But here is the kick in the b****s then.
At whos expense will they start.Dont be suprised to see Kerrigan or O Rourke withdrawn with Gould still their.Even Macroom realise he is not a forward.
Add the fact Kissane will be half back.Add in O Neil or O Connor at midfield if not both.He put Walsh to half forward yesterday which spells dissaster for the next day as he could start him their.Walsh is or never will be a forward.Midfield is hes position.
But wait for it.The team needs a shake up.We tried Walsh at full forward but it failed but we will play him at half forward instead.
Kelly,CollinSheehan,O Rourke are all natural forwards but he wont play them.Mark sugrue from the U21 team should be on the panel ahead of Andrew O Sullivan or Liam Shorten.Guys that were poor at underage but CC thinks are better than a player who has underage pedigree.
That among many other reasons is why Cork wont turn it around under CC.
I had been pessimstic in the league up to the tyrone game as believed we had turned a corner and MCcarthy and Cuthbert had started to have a big role in the team.I had even thought we would beat Kerry.But i did say only if Couhinan stayed away from the team tactics.I was a bigger fool to even think it could happen.
No matter what Cuthbert and Mccarthy bring to the table its lost as any step forward is ten steps back as Couhinan will do it he's way.
Only for Cuthbert involved it is certain O Rourke,Cahalane,Clancy and Hurley wouldnt be on the panel.But they have no infuence on the team itself.
It is a pity Kerry did not hammer us yesterday.
As the Echo today said the comeback can not hide the flaws of yesterday but rest assured going on Couhinans interview yesterday it will.
It was the usal blame everthing bar yourself.We did not get the bounce of the ball,we were unlucky ,we didnt take our chances,they got a run on us,blah blah etc.
The rubbish you always assoicate from any unsuccesful manager in any sport.
Any good manager controls the controlables.CC always uses the lame excuse, it is never he's fault but always some one else or outside forces like bad luck etc.
Australia lost the rubgy and sacked their coach.As they know the World cup for them starts now.Its time to rebuild.
Cork loose again ,yet we have another year of it.Its depressing.Sure we are Cork Football and have no right to win all ireland titles every few years.One in 20 years is grand.
The most successful manager ever ,for Cork along side Eammon Ryan ,Billy morgan was disgracefully treated in 1993, and 2007 by Cork.
Since then Tompkins and Couhinan have been woeful and no questions asked.Larry got seven years, CC will have done 6 years by the time if and when the term ends.
One all ireland with the best ever bunch of players we produced is just a disgrace.
Forget about League titles,their nothing in comparison.0 -
On a postive note Mcloughlin and Cronin trained with the hurlers the weekend.
A full squad bar the long term absentees.0 -
Had Kerry our team they would have at least 3 AI now.
The talent is there. We need a complete overhaul of the management team. Fresh faces and a manager who is not afraid.0 -
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was 1992 the last munster final between Cork and Limerick? I cant remember one since.
was 9 then in blackrock end that day. full house. when Munster title was huge.0 -
The_Kew_Tour wrote: »was 1992 the last munster final between Cork and Limerick? I cant remember one since.
was 9 then in blackrock end that day. full house. when Munster title was huge.
yeah i was slightly older but as a young lad it was great.Yeah 92 was the last time.Mulchay took about 20 steps and goaled.Limerick are still not over it.0 -
The_Kew_Tour wrote: »was 1992 the last munster final between Cork and Limerick? I cant remember one since.
was 9 then in blackrock end that day. full house. when Munster title was huge.
I think your right. We played them in a semi in 2004 abd 2006 and nearly lost both.
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Thinkstoomuch wrote: »yeah i was slightly older but as a young lad it was great.Yeah 92 was the last time.Mulchay took about 20 steps and goaled.Limerick are still not over it.
That was a classic one. Really shouldnt have been a goal. I remember cyril farell laughing about it on the Sunday game few years ago when Tomas was on the programme with him.0 -
Hope we can win next week against Limerick. It wont be easy and Limerick i hear are favourites. Hard ask for Cork but hopeffully give us a good performance.0
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I think your right. We played them in a semi in 2004 abd 2006 and nearly lost both.
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92 was the last final we played in, and ye won (with Mulcahy's goal a big factor!).
Last time we beat ye was in 2001 with the Barry Foley sideline, the day O'Sullivan scored the point from well inside his own half.
And ye've beaten us 3 times since:
2004 in Munster, Albert Shanahan let a long-range free from Ben O'Connor drop into the net and Corcoran scored that famous point on his knees.
2006 under Richie Bennis, it was an All-Ireland quarter-final rather than a Munster game, and ye beat us by a point. O'Sullivan drove a penalty over the bar iirc and there was some controversy about a sliotar in his shorts :P
And in 2010, ye won handily enough when our first team were on strike. But Graham Mulcahy had a great game, and made a marker for his selection the following season.0 -
Hope we can win next week against Limerick. It wont be easy and Limerick i hear are favourites. Hard ask for Cork but hopeffully give us a good performance.
We are better physically and mentally than the Clare game.I hope Limerick are favourites.We will see how they can carry the weight of expectation.Limerick expect to win...their not comfortable or never have been in such a role.
Time will tell if they have turned a corner.Their is an opening day midweek to the public for their training and last week their was the same.
Their under the spotlight.They done well against tipp but this is a different test.
At least unlike the footballers we have a brave manager who will go with youth and is tactically clued in.
In ref to the footballers if you take Kilkenny as an example under Cody it shows what Cork lack under Couhinan.
TJ Reid a young player,one of the best ever,was poor on Saturday but was taken off in the first half as under Cody reputations mean nothing.You are only as good as your last game.
Cork on the other hand have old stagers who at best were very good but never great but are firm fixtures game on game.
It shows the difference between a great manager and a poor manager.0 -
Not from cork but was absolutely astounded that Cork put in a first half like that again after the munster final in 2011.
How could you go down to face your biggest rival who you havent beaten in almost 20 years and not be hell bent on setting that right is beyond me.The lack of fight was pathetic.Skill wise it was like something like kerrys golden years with cork all at sea.No tactics,no plan,no ideas,no commitment zilch.The players would really want to have a good long look at themselves after that.The second half performance is irrelevant here as kerry ran out of steam.
Counihan should have left after 2010.He more or less was the only man to win an all ireland with the traditional system since galway in 2001.It helped greatly that he avoided all of the tactical big guns that year.Dublin were only halfway there when they played in the semi final.It was really a one off and on top of the established harte and o'connor, the emergence of gilroy,horan and mcguinness has raised the bar even further.Playing Canty,O'Leary and kissane yesterday was a shocking call.
We played Cork for 5 years (2006-10) and the winning totals for cork under Billy Morgan were 4+13.under Counihan 3+1 with a draw in 2010.Under Morgan we were destroyed in 2007.Not that Im saying morgan is the right man or anything but counihans reign saw us get closer each year.Having an astute man like donie buckley did help us though.
From what I heard from several cork followers the 2008-12 selectors were not at the races.The results against the big guns seems to make it look spot on.
Another point was rasied that the management hadnt the size 5's to drop anyone, with players that dropped out/retired as opposed to making big calls and dropping players from the squad.compare this to the alex ferguson like ruthlessness from kerry from anyone who doesnt perform.Its easy to see why Kerry are so far ahead of ye in football.
The naming of dummy teams every game makes him look even worse.Its not working so why persist in doing it.
IMHO Whatever hope cork had at an all ireland has more or less gone after yesterday. They wont get a run like they did in 2010.Every provincial winner will be tough to beat this time around.0 -
What you said is spot on and Cork people know this and have for the last number of years.shockframe wrote: »Not from cork but was absolutely astounded that Cork put in a first half like that again after the munster final in 2011.
How could you go down to face your biggest rival who you havent beaten in almost 20 years and not be hell bent on setting that right is beyond me.The lack of fight was pathetic.Skill wise it was like something like kerrys golden years with cork all at sea.No tactics,no plan,no ideas,no commitment zilch.The players would really want to have a good long look at themselves after that.The second half performance is irrelevant here as kerry ran out of steam.
Counihan should have left after 2010.He more or less was the only man to win an all ireland with the traditional system since galway in 2001.It helped greatly that he avoided all of the tactical big guns that year.Dublin were only halfway there when they played in the semi final.It was really a one off and on top of the established harte and o'connor, the emergence of gilroy,horan and mcguinness has raised the bar even further.Playing Canty,O'Leary and kissane yesterday was a shocking call.
We played Cork for 5 years (2006-10) and the winning totals for cork under Billy Morgan were 4+13.under Counihan 3+1 with a draw in 2010.Under Morgan we were destroyed in 2007.Not that Im saying morgan is the right man or anything but counihans reign saw us get closer each year.Having an astute man like donie buckley did help us though.
From what I heard from several cork followers the 2008-12 selectors were not at the races.The results against the big guns seems to make it look spot on.
Another point was rasied that the management hadnt the size 5's to drop anyone, with players that dropped out/retired as opposed to making big calls and dropping players from the squad.compare this to the alex ferguson like ruthlessness from kerry from anyone who doesnt perform.Its easy to see why Kerry are so far ahead of ye in football.
The naming of dummy teams every game makes him look even worse.Its not working so why persist in doing it.
IMHO Whatever hope cork had at an all ireland has more or less gone after yesterday. They wont get a run like they did in 2010.Every provincial winner will be tough to beat this time around.
One point i would dissagree with is the lack of fight.If anything that bottle in some of the team or characther that you question is what us won us the all ireland in 2010.Teams failed to put us away but the characther and bravery i dont doubt.
It was their yesterday too in the second half.Yes Kerry took the gas but Cork never gave up....the good fight.They battled to the end.
Their is nothing lacking with the core of the team in that department but that alone wont win you matches and the top 4 .You need skill and a game plan.
No one piece ever made a jigsaw.Its a combination of pieces,and its the same to win an all ireland.
As you correctly stated the gap has widened and every year its harder to win.You can not be weak in any aera to win one.
We are weak in tactics and a game plan with the right players on the team.Unlike most of the rest of the Country who lack talent and try and punch above their weight we have it in abundance but due to a manager that is very poor we punch below or weight.
Morgan had the 3'in a row u21 team of 84-86 the last team to ever do so in football.
He got us to 4'finals in a row and won 2.He then got us to a final in 93 that we should have won.He beat kerry in kerry time and time again.
In 2007 he had to rebuild a team from the bottom after Tompkins ruined us.An average bunch of players he got to an all ireland final.
Couinhan got lucky.The U21 teams of 06 and 07 and 09 came through.He had rich pickings compared to Morgan .Unlike Morgan he stumbled and played awful football to win an all ireland.Cork hand passed the ball 199 times last year against Donegal and still nearly won.
With little ball,Colm O Neill got 1-3 and could have been 2-3 from play.
Imagine if he was with Kerry.
If Morgan was in charge Cork would have steam rolled to win it such was the talent and how poor the rest of the teams were.
O leary was fine yesterday.He had only one job to do and he done it.Cancel Galvin out.
Canty is the spirit of this team like O Connelll is to Munster.He was part of the reason to our fightback.Always urging those around him.
The problem was we played Canty with Kissane and O Leary as a unit.A recipe for dissaster in fairness.
Canty is the bed rock of the team.But you play to he's strengths not to he's weak spots when you can .
I agree as most here will also with you,CC wont win an all ireland again with cork.
He could take over the ladies team,the greateast ever.Up their with KK.
They would loose more than they would win under him.He has this exceptional talent of making simple things look like its moving mountains.The set up is a joke.0 -
Cork Junior team to play Waterford Thursday night in Fraher field in the Munster Final is
1. David Hanrahan Douglas
2. A.J O'Connor
3. Eoin O'Mahony
4. Kevin Harrington
5. Richard O'Sullivan
6. Rory O'Sullivan
7. Sean Kiely
8. Ruairi Deane
9. Micheál O Laoire
10. Cathal Vaughan
11. Andrew O'Brien
12. Colm O' Driscoll
13. Eoghan Buckley
14. Fiachra Lynch
15. David Harrington
Subs 16. Seán Mellett Carrigaline 17. Peter Daly St. Mary's 18. John Cronin Lisgoold 19. Kevin Barrett Kilmurry 20. Niall McCarthy Kinsale 21. Kevin O'Driscoll Tadhg MacCarthaigh 22. Seamus Hickey Rockchapel 23. Mark Sugrue Bandon 24. Michael Vaughan Millstreet Captain: Ruairi Deane0 -
All stand tickets for Sunday sold out...taken up by all the Clubs.
Just terrace tickets on sale Wed night fron Pairc U Rinn.0 -
shockframe wrote: »Not from cork but was absolutely astounded that Cork put in a first half like that again after the munster final in 2011.
How could you go down to face your biggest rival who you havent beaten in almost 20 years and not be hell bent on setting that right is beyond me.The lack of fight was pathetic.Skill wise it was like something like kerrys golden years with cork all at sea.No tactics,no plan,no ideas,no commitment zilch.The players would really want to have a good long look at themselves after that.The second half performance is irrelevant here as kerry ran out of steam.
Counihan should have left after 2010.He more or less was the only man to win an all ireland with the traditional system since galway in 2001.It helped greatly that he avoided all of the tactical big guns that year.Dublin were only halfway there when they played in the semi final.It was really a one off and on top of the established harte and o'connor, the emergence of gilroy,horan and mcguinness has raised the bar even further.Playing Canty,O'Leary and kissane yesterday was a shocking call.
We played Cork for 5 years (2006-10) and the winning totals for cork under Billy Morgan were 4+13.under Counihan 3+1 with a draw in 2010.Under Morgan we were destroyed in 2007.Not that Im saying morgan is the right man or anything but counihans reign saw us get closer each year.Having an astute man like donie buckley did help us though.
From what I heard from several cork followers the 2008-12 selectors were not at the races.The results against the big guns seems to make it look spot on.
Another point was rasied that the management hadnt the size 5's to drop anyone, with players that dropped out/retired as opposed to making big calls and dropping players from the squad.compare this to the alex ferguson like ruthlessness from kerry from anyone who doesnt perform.Its easy to see why Kerry are so far ahead of ye in football.
The naming of dummy teams every game makes him look even worse.Its not working so why persist in doing it.
IMHO Whatever hope cork had at an all ireland has more or less gone after yesterday. They wont get a run like they did in 2010.Every provincial winner will be tough to beat this time around.
Nothing surprises me with Cork football. I went to game yesterday knowing Cork would lose so I wasn't annoyed with the result in the end. It was expected. We aren't going to beat Kerry in Killarney for a long time. We could be waiting 30+ years for it to happen, This is Cork football. I don't know why we find it hard to beat Kerry in Killarney, we need someone like Jim McGuinness in to change the mindset of the Cork setup, I don't know. As a true Cork supporter sometimes following Cork football can be so frustrating. Nearly every year we get beaten by Kerry and Kerry aren't the team they were a few years back. If Counihan isn't serious about getting his team right, maybe we would be better off being knocked out of qualifiers and Counihan resign.0 -
The CCB got approved by Cork City Council in relation to buying the 6 acres of land they need and have the go ahead to redevelop the park and build a Centre Of Excellence.They have all the paper work and red tape out the way now.Its ready to go.
I was hoping the week it was they got declined.All their worried about is the staduim.How in the name of jesus it costs 67m is beyond me.Thomond park did not cost anywhere near that and is a superb staduim.
Centre of excellence makes me laugh.It no where near a centre of excellence in the Tyrone mould.I think Louth or Longford,one of them are building a centre of excellence.Much better than Corks one.0 -
Thinkstoomuch wrote: »The CCB got approved by Cork City Council in relation to buying the 6 acres of land they need and have the go ahead to redevelop the park and build a Centre Of Excellence.They have all the paper work and red tape out the way now.Its ready to go.
I was hoping the week it was they got declined.All their worried about is the staduim.How in the name of jesus it costs 67m is beyond me.Thomond park did not cost anywhere near that and is a superb staduim.
Centre of excellence makes me laugh.It no where near a centre of excellence in the Tyrone mould.I think Louth or Longford,one of them are building a centre of excellence.Much better than Corks one.
Is this Pairc Ui Caoimh or Rinn?
What exactly is the centre of excellence going to consist of?
The figures you've mentioned are a heck of a lot of euros in today's economy.0 -
Is this Pairc Ui Caoimh or Rinn?
What exactly is the centre of excellence going to consist of?
The figures you've mentioned are a heck of a lot of euros in today's economy.
Pairc U Caoimh ....to have both stands redeveolped with new dressing rooms,gyms,medical facialtes ,restaurants etc.
Wait for the best part though...A Museum.The way things are going they wont have much trophies to fill it with.
They only partly fund the development squads...they do a lot of self funding themselves....golf classics etc.Thats more important to Cork.
They refused the idea of league games in Clon and Mallow as they would loose out on Gate recipts for this project.
Everything else takes a back foot.
Yes it needs to be redeveloped but no way near 67m.Thurles only needed 16m and the Gaelic Grounds 12m.
The centre of excellence is just a joke.An all weather ptich,gym,changing rooms and a video conferncing room etc.
The stand will hold about 1500 fans.That nothing compared to Mallow GAA for example.They have some complex.An all weather ptich,a few training ptiches,conference rooms that hosted the launch of the Munster championships,medical facilites and a restauarant and bar also.
Superb parking facilites also.Their main ptich can host 8000 fans.
Clonakilty and Nemo Rangers have similar.Such that the facilites in Nemo Rangers and Mallow were top class,
that the IRFU and Munster Rubgy used Nemo and Mallow in the past.
My view is their no need of another one in the city with Nemo their and Mallow is central to most parts.Clonakilty have superb facilites also.
If they are going to have another one you think it would be at least superior not inferior to the ones already there.
Kerry are developing their own Centre of Excellence and all it will cost is 2.5m aprox.
I cant see how with the redevelopment of the staduim and the centre of excellence it comes to 67m.
The money should be invested in the underage system like Dublin have and you can see their reaping rewards in Hurling and Football accross all levels compared to Cork.0 -
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I imagine the $$$ from Springsteen this summer'll go along way. Proper order too, could do with a few decent gigs like that, everyone young and old are looking forward to it after all.0
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I imagine the $$$ from Springsteen this summer'll go along way. Proper order too, could do with a few decent gigs like that, everyone young and old are looking forward to it after all.
Are they using the stands for this or is it all on the pitch. Stand seats a nightmare for a 70 min match, never mind 3 hours of the Boss0 -
At last a well balanced view in a paper about the footballers calling a spade a spade
STOP us if you’ve heard this one before but in Killarney yesterday, Cork almost turned a shambolic first half into an unlikely victory.
You could dress it up by saying a heroic second-half comeback fell just short, with a smart Brendan Kealy stop denying a stinging drive from the outstanding Brian Hurley at the death. That, though, would be just papering over the cracks.
The reality was Cork didn’t show enough aggression or intelligence in their approach in the opening 35 minutes and were deservedly beaten on the back of that period, which was as sloppy and lifeless as the last clash in Fitzgerald Stadium in 2011.
The positive spin would be that the Rebels learned more in defeat than they would have done in victory; that the way they reconfigured their line-up for the second half gives them a platform for the All-Ireland series. After all, Cork are only a win over a qualifier away from the quarter-final stage which Kerry are at now.
But that’s a cop out. Cork picked the wrong team and the wrong tactics, wasting the opportunity to bridge a gap since 1995 when they last defeated Kerry in Killarney.
Imagine the boost that would have given to a group of players who have failed to kick on after being crowned All-Ireland champions in 2010.
Instead, after their first real test since the Donegal loss in last year’s All-Ireland semi-final, they’re left with more questions than answers and simply didn’t show the steel and class of legitimate contenders for September glory.
The Rebel rearguard was shredded early on with Eoin Cadogan, who is possibly not back to full fitness after that Achilles injury against Donegal back in March, having his worst ever game for the footballers.
Graham Canty, Noel O’Leary and Paudie Kissane were below par too, and the theory that their best days are behind them looked sounder than ever here.
The structure of the defence didn’t do Cork any favours, of course, and the decision to get Canty to sweep back from midfield — and then Damien Cahalane when they switched — didn’t pay off in any form, particularly when Kerry lorded the kick-outs in the first half.
That gave Colm Cooper a platform to spray ball around and pop up for the killer goal, though James Loughrey had a fine Killarney debut, especially in the second half when he was rampant going up the centre. Indeed he forced Cooper on to the back foot, which was the selectors’ aim initially.
Whatever about the back six — and surely Thomas Clancy, who didn’t do badly after replacing Cadogan, and Tomás Clancy (harshly dropped after starting all season up to now) must come in the next day, while Cahalane is worthy of another audition and shouldn’t have been taken off until half-time — the attacking approach was a disaster.
The half-forward line wasn’t selected with quick ball, aerial ability and danger up top in mind. Paul Kerrigan is a wing-forward or a roaming number 15 but was stationed at centre-forward, while John O’Rourke and Fintan Goold are better at carrying ball than delivering it long.
Sometimes Cork are accused of being too slow in their approach play when they’re actually being sensible and trying to open up opponents with pacy runs. It’s often pointless to just pump in long ball, especially when facing a blanket defence.
However, Kerry didn’t have a sweeper or swarm defence and Cork completely wasted the threat of Hurley, Daniel Goulding and Donncha O’Connor inside. Donncha wasn’t on song, but how many decent passes did he get?
James O’Donoghue is no better than any of those forwards but outscored them, courtesy of the wonderful angled deliveries he received.
Ciarán Sheehan almost won the game as a target man at 14 — scoring a point and setting up three — and even without Colm O’Neill, Cork’s greatest asset is that they have their most gifted crop of attackers in 20 years.
Sheehan wasn’t available from the throw-in because of a knee injury, but with Pa Kelly ruled out through illness, the stage was surely set for Mark Collins to get his first start at half-forward.
It’s a complete mystery to me why Collins has been marginalised by the management. He was introduced as a sub in the loss to Mayo in the ’11 quarter-final, and got significant league time for the past seasons, yet he’s never got a shot in championship. There’s been talk he’s not physical enough. Well, that wasn’t a problem for Cooper, O’Donoghue or Donnchadh Walsh yesterday.
And Collins had the quality to guide UCC and DIT to Sigerson Cup glory in the space of three seasons, and Haven to a county last year. He looked the part in his club’s recent SFC replay win over Nemo too.
There was discontent in many quarters when Conor Counihan was re-appointed last winter, but the hope was that with three new selectors on board, he’d shake up the team.
There have been changes, no question, but not enough, in personnel or in tactics.
If Cork have any chance of All-Ireland glory — however slim — it’s time to gamble.
They’ll probably be successful in the next round, a last 12 game on Saturday July 27 — remember Cork and Kerry have never been beaten in their next match after a Munster final defeat — and should have enough for whoever they meet at that stage.
The issue is that their All-Ireland quarter-final will be against a provincial champion, most likely Dublin, Mayo or Donegal, and Kerry will have a far easier tie on the August Bank Holiday weekend.
Right now it’s difficult to see the Rebels in the last four, while Kerry, for their weaknesses, are on collision course with the Dubs in the semis.
THREE NEGATIVES FOR CORK
1. THE FIRST HALF: The least was expected, after a tame, disorganised first half in Killarney on their last visit, was for Cork to tear into Kerry for the off. Instead they replicated 2011 — defeats in 2007 and 2000 too — by upping the gears when they were chasing a virtually insurmountable lead.
On all previous evidence, to secure a rare victory over the border the Rebels were going to have to set the tone and put the pressure on the Kingdom.
2. TEAM SELECTION AND TACTICS: The easy option when a team underperforms is to blame the management. It happens at every level, yet the Cork selectors made some poor calls yesterday, notwithstanding the absence of Sheehan and Kelly.
The half-forward line was a weak link, with Kerrigan out of position at 11 and no playmaker starting, and Mark Collins ignored.
Defensively they attempted to crowd the supply lines by Graham Canty and Damien Cahalane dropping off, but it only resulted in Donnchadh Walsh dictating the tempo as a loose wing-forward.
3. THE VETERANS: So many of the starting 15 failed to deliver, it’s maybe wrong to point the finger at the more experienced players.
The bottom line though is there are question marks over a number of high-mileage veterans.
Canty, Noel O’Leary and Donncha O’Connor were hugely disappointing by their high standards. Those displays came on the back of the Donegal loss last August, so the time is probably right to put faith in newcomers like the Clancys and Collins.
THREE POSITIVES FOR CORK
1. JAMES LOUGHREY: Granted it says a lot about Cork’s miserable showing in general that the Antrim import was their best player. There was great cutting about him and he was involved in six of the 17 points.
Granted Cooper was a Man of the Match contender too on the basis of the first-half, but that was when Loughrey was being exposed by the frailties in the Cork midfield. The Mallow clubman will relish the next phase of the season in Croker.
2. THE ATTACK: Even after a woeful first-half, and with the wrong half-forward unit picked that didn’t have the range of passing required to supply the full-forwards, Cork kicked what should have been a match-winning total. Only four times since 1983 have they fired more than 0-17 against the Kingdom.
The combination of Ciarán Sheehan, Brian Hurley and Daniel Goulding up top looked potent. To maximise their threat the Rebels will need more creativity on the 40 and more positivity in their approach.
3. THE FIGHTBACK: Just because they salvaged some pride in the second-half, Cork shouldn’t be excused for the poverty of their first-half.
Having said that, they still showed enough quality and hunger to cut a nine-point gap to two in the closing minutes, and that has to offer a slight bit of hope for the rest of the summer.
The Rebels don’t look good enough to actually lift Sam Maguire, but they could yet take out a contender at headquarters.0 -
wouldnt worry about losing last sunday after all we played a good few debutants and most proved reasonably successful.to be fair the selectors did try switching players around but in reality they should have moved on Cahalane sooner.a point that seems to be missed here is the effect that unpolished work-horse Alan o Conner had on the game and himself and walsh now look like first choice mid fielders.john o rourke did well enough and t Clancey looked ok as did the antrim man.but with out doubt the star of last sunday was Brian Hurley-he looks very dangerous .a run in the qaulifiers would do the team the world of good especially if cork stick to the new guns and i would see cork as still being the top 5 in the country if the lessons are learned from last sunday0
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Christy O Connors take
ON THE night before the league final in May, Cork and Limerick met in a challenge game in Kilworth.
In a high scoring encounter, Cork won by six points, 5-14 to 2-17.
When you look at the teams from that evening now, the make-up of both sides is fairly revealing.
Only six of the Cork team which played in the Munster semi-final against Clare featured, while 13 of the Limerick side which got game-time in their provincial semi-final against Tipp lined out that evening.
Cork were always in control and were never behind after Luke O’Farrell’s 12th minute goal.
They were 2-8 to 0-11 up at half-time and had stretched the lead to 11 points early in the second half after Daniel Kearney rattled in Cork’s fifth goal.
Limerick emptied their bench in an attempt to salvage some kind of a result, bringing on seven players in the process.
Cork meanwhile, only introduced two players.
Challenge games are no guide to form and are certainly no barometer for what might happen later in the season.
Yet that game could be extremely important in a number of different contexts ahead of Sunday’s Munster final.
Firstly, Cork will take huge confidence from that performance, especially the manner in which they tore Limerick’s defence apart.
What’s more, 10 Cork players scored, eight from play, while the bulk of Limerick’s scoring was done by Declan Hannon, who got nine points from placed balls.
Deep down, Cork will believe that they are better than Limerick.
They will convince themselves that they proved as much that night – even with barely half a team.
They will be realistic enough to realise that the pace and intensity that Limerick will bring on Sunday will be a million miles from what they produced that night in Kilworth.
Yet it is in the Cork psyche to always believe they can beat Limerick and that challenge game will surely be in the backs of their minds.
Yet let’s flip the context of that challenge game around.
Could the result and the potential psychological boost Cork took from that match be as much of a hindrance as a help?
Could it shave a tiny few per cent off the edge and primal desire Cork will need to win this game?
Of course Cork need to be confident – which they will be — but if they’re thinking that they can do a number on this Limerick defence again, it could provide a false security.
Whatever Cork are thinking, they better be prepared for an absolute war.
After the Clare game, it was routinely stated that Cork are a different animal once they reach a Munster final.
Yet is that old expectation relevant anymore?
Tom Kenny is the only player that will feature on Sunday to have an All-Ireland medal and these Cork players don’t have the history of underage success to draw on that young Cork teams often had in the past.
Many of these players had the 2011 Munster U21 final in the bag in extra-time but it was Limerick who dug out the win against the odds.
Cork were expected to win the 2010 Munster final against Waterford – almost on that basis of being that different animal in a final.
They should have won the drawn game but lost the replay after extra-time, even though they had a far more experienced team than they have now, which included 11 All-Ireland medallists.
It’s unfair to compare this Cork team with sides of the past because they are trying to create their own identity.
However that lack of experience is bound to be a factor on Sunday, especially after the loss of Brian Murphy.
If Cork lose players to injury in their defence, or struggle with their form, their options on the bench are very limited.
That strength in depth is absolutely central to Limerick.
They were able to bring three potential game-changers in the last day – Niall Moran, Kevin Downes and Shane Dowling.
With the importance of panel depth now, especially in potentially sweltering conditions, Limerick have a huge edge on Cork.
Cork will look to play a fast open game up front but unhinging the Limerick defence will be a far more difficult task than the one Cork faced against Clare.
Limerick’s back six is loaded with a blend of pace, athleticism and aggression and they relish the physical exchanges.
What’s more, Limerick were getting stronger as the game went on against Tipp.
Despite playing on the hottest day of the year, they looked to have loads left in their tank.
Cork’s economy up front was key against Clare but their attack has often been working off limited possession in the last two seasons.
Cork will be more direct than Tipp were but if their possession stakes are further depleted against Limerick, where are Cork going to get the chances to create scores?
Although Tipp were complacent and lacked aggression, and were often trying to be too precise with their passing, Limerick swallowed up their attack in the last 20 minutes.
In that period, Eoin Kelly, Lar Corbett, Noel McGrath, John O’Brien, Brian O’Meara and John O’Dwyer were restricted to an astonishing low total of just ten plays.
Cork are entitled to believe they will win. If they reproduce the form they showed against Clare, they very well could.
Yet if Limerick perform, — and they should – it is hard to see them being beaten.
Limerick to win.0 -
Alan O Connor is not up to this level any more.He came on when the game was well and truly over and Buckley and Maher were clearly out on their feet.keep going wrote: »wouldnt worry about losing last sunday after all we played a good few debutants and most proved reasonably successful.to be fair the selectors did try switching players around but in reality they should have moved on Cahalane sooner.a point that seems to be missed here is the effect that unpolished work-horse Alan o Conner had on the game and himself and walsh now look like first choice mid fielders.john o rourke did well enough and t Clancey looked ok as did the antrim man.but with out doubt the star of last sunday was Brian Hurley-he looks very dangerous .a run in the qaulifiers would do the team the world of good especially if cork stick to the new guns and i would see cork as still being the top 5 in the country if the lessons are learned from last sunday
O Connor has been poor for the last two years.He was destroyed by Mayo in 2011.He has got worse since.An impact sub he may well survive but a full game no way.A Cameo appereance against a tired Kerry team and now he is our Hero.
To hear people say O Connor and O Neill should be Corks midfield pairing with Walsh as a half forward is just laughable.
Walsh is our best midfielder but Couinhan messing him around is not helping him.
Since 2010 bar in Cork we have not beaten Kerry and been beaten by Mayo and Dublin.
We are in the top 5 but id be ashamed if i was CC to say that bout this team with the talent he has.
To say their is no need to worry is the attuide that has got Cork where it is.The refusal to accept reality and always look for excuses.The problem is the manager,and he has clearly out grown this team.0 -
Sunday's final set to be a sell out according to various media outlets. There is a sale of terrace tickets in Pairc Ui Rinn this evening. I was told earlier in the day that there was just 1500 terrace tickets for sale?
I'm not really surprised that this game will be a sell out and I'm glad now that i ordered a ticket online nearly 2 weeks ago for this clash. I reckon this will be a tight game and even though Limerick are the favourites and rightly so there's no doubt JBM will have the Cork team as best prepared as possible,roll on Sunday!0 -
Ciaran Sheehan played hurling for Eire OG against Dripsey tonight .
Couinhan said he was injured for Sunday.He must not of been or else it was some recovery to play 2 games in 3 days.
Match fitness cant be a valid excuse as coughlan played no league games at all compared to sheehan and was only training since May yet he played a full 40 mins against Clare and Hurling is a much faster game than football.
Couinhan needs to be asked serious questions.
The Juniors should win tommorrow but it could be close.A weakned CIT team beat them in a challenge match last Monday week.0 -
Cork team is being named tonight
after training.Id say the only change will be Cronin at midfield.Mcloughlin will do a fitness test tonight.
I hope im wrong.Mcdonnell and Kenny weaken the team.Such is the heat where their will be no or little wind in limerick,Kennys lack of pace worries me.
If Mcdonnell starts and it goes pear shaped where do we go to next for a possible meeting with KK in two weeks in a q final.
At least if spillane makes hes debut sunday he has a game under hes belt
It would be madness if he had to make hes debut against KK if they beat waterford.
Mcdonnell is a huge gamble at full back.0 -
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1. Anthony Nash
Kanturk
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]2. Shane O'Neill 3. Stephen McDonnell 4. Conor O Sullivan
Bishopstown Glen Rovers Sarsfields [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]5. Tom Kenny 6. Christopher Joyce 7. William Egan
Grenagh Na Piarsaigh Kilbrin[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] 8. Lorcan Mc Loughlin 9. Daniel Kearney
Kanturk Sarsfields
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]10. Seamus Harnedy 11. Cian Mc Carthy 12. Pa Cronin
St. Ita's Sarsfields Bishopstown
13. Luke O'Farrell 14. Patrick Horgan 15. Conor Lehane
Midleton Glen Rovers Midleton [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]16. Darren McCarthy Ballymartle
17. Kilian Murphy Erin's Own
18. Pa O'Mahony Midleton
19. Colm Spillane Castlelyons
20. Mark Ellis Millstreet
21. Stephen White Ballygarvan
22. Rob O'Shea Carrigaline
23. Cathal Naughton Newtownshandrum
24. Jamie Coughlan Newtownshandrum
25. Stephen Moylan Douglas
26. Michael Cussen Sarsfields [/FONT]0
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