Are you overweight? Check the facts and you could win €100

shofukan

Good god it's nice to see the plain truth summed up so well.
I'm 18, but I'm looking at the thirteen year olds coming up into the school I'll be leaving for the last time on Thursday and all I can think is what's gone wrong?

cc87

safefood: Dermot wrote: »

Regarding saturated fat and the AJCN paper referred us to - national policy is not based on a single research paper and guidelines in the Republic of Ireland (and international concensus would suggest) still advise that saturated fat intake should be reduced in the interest of improving population health and safefood supports this.

This is the main problem here, guidelines in Ireland follow international consensus and not research papers. If your colleagues more learned in nutrition would be willing to come on here and post valid research which backs up the ideas that: Saturated fat is damaging to health; Reducing Saturated fat has a positive impact on health, people on here will be more than willing to discuss these ideas with them.

The lipid hypothesis has being around for about 50 years now and there is little, if any evidence, that it is any more than just that, a hypothesis. Something which is proposed but not proved. Why and how so many different organisations can knowingly and willingly offer nutritional advice to millions of people without solid evidence that what they are saying is in the peoples interest is beyond me.

After 50 years of the same advice and public health after going through a huge decline in health, surely its about time someone questioned this.

nesf

Here's food for thought on the carb vs sat fat issue: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbs-against-cardio

pete_mcs

Have to base this reply on my own experience. I am 5 ft 9 inches 15 stone weight and feel every ounce of it. I am slow, have aches and pains and am only 38. This time last year I was 13 stone, and had run 3 half marathons already this year, was planning my next one when I injured my achillies tendon. A year on my tendon still swells up, but not as half as fast as my belly.
Since seeing these ads I have slowly started to make an effort to improve my weight, have cut out all the crap foods I have been eating and started going for a walk in the evening after dinner. Going to start to do a bit of jogging once I am used to the walking. Just want to loose this 2 stone around my heart.
Keep up these ads, its a good way of getting to the general public.

gerrycollins

From a dieters perspective.

Im 5'5 and now 16 stone.

I was 11 stone

previous to that I was 14 stone all in the space of 6 years.

My short story, growing up in rural Ireland I was a meat and two veg and spud man,we mostly ate home made brown bread and had very little processed foods. I was very very slim(ryan tubridy slim).I did Irish dancing to national level and played all the sports.

We got little sweets and fizzy drinks except for special occasions,there were never any lying around the house and we didnt mind. We didnt have a farm but I was always out cycling to go anywhere,that or walk it, plus I helped my neighbours in their farms. Suffice to say been outside and active played a hugh part.

Fast forward a good numbers of years and I was slowly putting on the weight till I got to 14 stone. Pictures of me show i was not fat but I knew I was overweight.

Finally on the road to marraige my wife and I went to weightwatchers and we lost 50lbs each following their plan.

We stopped and went back to our horrible ways and we have both put on more weight. Mentally im finding it difficult to get my head around diesting but looking back at the WW diet programme against my eating habits as a child in rural ireland they have very little difference. natural foods with very little processed foods and little sweet stuff. Even the WW allows for the odd treat.

I have 3 kids 5,3 & 2 and Im very consicious of their weight. With them they get breakfast ceral with milk,meat and two veg dinners and healthy options for lunch. They currently have no weight issues.

I believe that a natural food diet is the key and avoidance of processed food is important(hindsight is great!!!). PS im starting a diet soon will keep posted in the forum on my progress.

Cookie_Monster

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

The model hasn't failed. It's based on the best available evidence

I'm not claiming to to be an expert about it with a deep understanding into the complex science behind it, but looking at all the links and studies posted so far in this thread it's been pretty conclusively shown to be a failed model yet you continue to trot out that it's perfectly fine to use despite the "best available evidence"...

That just seems wrong to me.

Hanley

I started out hopeful, but after seeing safefood's official position (eat loads of carbs, moderate protein and little fat), I've once again lost faith.

Drumpot

I watched the advertisement and I liked it all except for the "stop the spread" bit.

I accept that differant people interpret it differant ways, but I think its just not a good slogan and sends the wrong signals.

I am overweight and have been trying to get my weight down for just about the guts of a year. I am not doing it for anybody other then my family.

I reckon you could have differant slogans for each kind of person -

Children - "Start healthy, stay healthy".
Parents - "Love your children, love your body"
Adults - "Give your body a chance to flourish"

I know they arent perfect but I think you get the idea. The idea is all about making it about the personal responsibility of the individual (and by suggesting that not looking after yourself can have an effect on other things in your life).

A child will not care much for these advertisments, so my child slogan was aimed at their parents. My parents slogan was putting children first so parents prick up their ears and then realise that by looking after themselves in a healthy manner, they will by default be in a better position to look after their children. And my adults slogan was designed for everybody else, whether they want to meet a partner or persue some other activity that they would enjoy and thrive better with a healthy body.

To me, losing weight has the potential to give me more time with my children. I have been worried about my weight for some time and to be honest, those ad's wouldnt of done much to make me do something about it.

Because we see such horrific images on tv and because we have access to scary things, I think that you have to give an audience something that they can relate to, before they will actually put two and two together and awaken to the fact that the tv is taking about them.

Bambaata

Fair nplay for getting such a response to the current campaign. ITs good to get things out there but i'm afraid people just dont seem to care. Its unbelievable how much people will assess things they do but not give a damn when it comes to food. ITs like once its in its hidden and forgotten about! It would be great to live in a nation where the average joe looked after himself and hence reaped the rewards of a healthy, balanced lifestyle but i think its not going to happen until there is proper nutrition/lifestyle type education the whole way from infancy through to leaving cert!

dr.bollocko

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

I'd have to say Nesf that some of the opinions being expressed here are not at all 'mainstream'.

The reality of the situation is that while the project is well-intended, the nutritional advice side of things is bogus and based on poor science.

As much as anything can be proven the weight of the science backs the claim that the food pyramid theory is flawed and this has not been addressed, merely dismissed.

Dismissing this as not mainstream ergo not worthy of your time is a further flawed approach.

That said feeling the urge to change anything now after all the marketing has been done, ads paid for, site designed etc. because of the misgivings of some anonymous people on the internet is probably also a non-starter. Which is a pity because in as much as anyone can say anything, your team of nutritional experts wrote a BS report.

Mad Benny

swingking

It's a good campaign and it really makes you think about the food you are eating.

Broom

I for one cannot believe a 14 year old boy today weighs on average 3 stone heavier than his grandfather at the same age?...

If you are overweight you are more likely to develop health problems which ranges from heart disease, stroke, diabetes, certain types of cancer, gout, and gallbladder disease. Ireland need to address and full credit to Safefood for promoting this advertising campaign and to show the importance that the more overweight you are, the more likely you are to have these health problems....

Lets "STOP THE SPREAD" NOW before its too late...

nesf

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

I'd have to say Nesf that some of the opinions being expressed here are not at all 'mainstream'.

Some are not I agree, yet some of us are quoting mainstream scientific sources for our arguments. Regardless, my point still holds, unless this forum was filled with alternative nutjobs (which it isn't) then one would expect a lot more support for your models than you are getting. Unless you count mainstream as being holding with the international consensus on these things which is an extremely narrow definition of mainstream.

safefood: Aileen

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Jesus christ, I thought you were joking.

In fairness, here's what it actually says on our website:

Eating well is important for all of us. In the short-term, it can help us to feel good, look our best and stay at a healthy weight. And in the long-term, a healthy, balanced diet can reduce our risk of heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis and some cancers. But what exactly is a healthy, balanced diet?
In simple terms, to eat a balanced diet you need to combine several different types of foods - from each of the main food groups - in the right amounts so your body gets all the nutrients it needs while maintaining a healthy weight. This means you should eat:

• Plenty of bread, rice potatoes, pasta and other starchy foods
• Plenty of fruit and vegetables
• Some milk, cheese and yoghurt
• Some meat, fish, eggs, beans and other non-dairy sources of protein, and
• Just a small amount of foods and drinks high in fat and/or sugar

Separate dietary guidelines are used in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. These guidelines use different visuals: in the Republic of Ireland the Food Pyramid is used and in Northern Ireland the Eat Well plate is used. Click on the model that applies to where you live.
More about the Food Pyramid and nutritional recommendations in the Republic of Ireland

Any chance we could have this discussion without being misquoted?

TommyKnocker

Todd Gack wrote: »

The first question on the safefood website (http://www.safefood.eu/en/Consumer/Healthy-Living/Eating-Well/Eating-well1/)

What is a balanced diet?

The first answer;

Plenty of bread

:rolleyes:

Can only see things changing for the worse with this kind of ridiculous advice.

While I would agree that this post is akin to the type of reporting that you expect from some of the Red Top news papers, it is taken from your web site.

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

In fairness, here's what it actually says on our website:

Eating well is important for all of us. In the short-term, it can help us to feel good, look our best and stay at a healthy weight. And in the long-term, a healthy, balanced diet can reduce our risk of heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis and some cancers. But what exactly is a healthy, balanced diet?
In simple terms, to eat a balanced diet you need to combine several different types of foods - from each of the main food groups - in the right amounts so your body gets all the nutrients it needs while maintaining a healthy weight. This means you should eat:

• Plenty of bread, rice potatoes, pasta and other starchy foods
• Plenty of fruit and vegetables
• Some milk, cheese and yoghurt
• Some meat, fish, eggs, beans and other non-dairy sources of protein, and
• Just a small amount of foods and drinks high in fat and/or sugar

Separate dietary guidelines are used in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. These guidelines use different visuals: in the Republic of Ireland the Food Pyramid is used and in Northern Ireland the Eat Well plate is used. Click on the model that applies to where you live.
More about the Food Pyramid and nutritional recommendations in the Republic of Ireland

Any chance we could have this discussion without being misquoted?

I don't believe that quoting the whole text from your web makes for better reading tbh.

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

In simple terms, to eat a balanced diet you need to combine several different types of foods - from each of the main food groups - in the right amounts so your body gets all the nutrients it needs while maintaining a healthy weight.

I don't think that there is anybody who has posted on this thread who would disagree with this statement.

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

This means you should eat:

• Plenty of bread, rice potatoes, pasta and other starchy foods
• Plenty of fruit and vegetables
• Some milk, cheese and yoghurt
• Some meat, fish, eggs, beans and other non-dairy sources of protein, and
• Just a small amount of foods and drinks high in fat and/or sugar

But this is where the problem is. What we have here is a textual representation of the disproven Food Pyramid, to which a number of posters have previously provided links to research articles disputing the validity of this information.

Also I am unaware of any country which promotes todays food pyramid which are not seeing the same weight related issues facing Ireland today. This IMHO is the elephant in the room

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Separate dietary guidelines are used in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. These guidelines use different visuals: in the Republic of Ireland the Food Pyramid is used and in Northern Ireland the Eat Well plate is used. Click on the model that applies to where you live.
More about the Food Pyramid and nutritional recommendations in the Republic of Ireland

I would dispute the highlighted sentence above. A different pictorial representation of the same information does not (in my book at least) consitute "Separate dietary guidelines"

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Any chance we could have this discussion without being misquoted?

Personally I am not sure what is left to debate as you say you cannot/will not discuss the food pyramid and its failings any further, and the majority of the folks on here appear to believe that the information contained in the food pyramid, whether in text, pyramid or plate format is flawed and no longer beneficial for the majority of folks.

safefood: Aileen

Hi Fergal,

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. In relation to comments on the social contagion part of the advertisement, it is true that many studies of social contagion cannot disregard the potential effect of homophily on the results. The central point of the campaign is that being overweight is now the norm in our society and therefore the problem has been somewhat invisible – as we naturally think of what is socially ‘normal’ as being ok. Research has shown (http://her.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/3/261.full) that within families there are consistent correlations between parents and their children in terms of snack intake, eating motivations and body dissatisfaction. Research has also shown that people working together to live a healthier lifestyle are more successful than individuals going it alone (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18211520). Finally, as an example, recently published research has shown how friendship networks influence children’s physical activity (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21680072). The point that stop the spread is making is that we are all influenced by each other and that because being overweight is now the norm many of us may think that we are ok when actually we are overweight.

I hope this helps explain our position.

fergalr wrote: »

As I wrote earlier on the thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72823312&postcount=74

the conclusions of the Christakis and Fowler work are still under scientific discussion and debate.


There are many researchers who say that when you consider other aspects of the data, the 'obesity is contagious' results don't really hold up.

I gave an example of a critical paper, in my previous post.
Here is another example of a recently published paper on this topic:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037887331100030X

"We provide evidence for this claim in a Monte Carlo analysis of the statistical model used by Christakis, Fowler, and their colleagues in numerous articles estimating “contagion” effects in social networks. Our results indicate that homophily in friendship retention induces significant upward bias and decreased coverage levels in the Christakis and Fowler model if there is non-negligible friendship attrition over time."



Basically, its still too early to say, with certainty, whether obesity is contagious or not.

One study, on one dataset, whose methods and results have since been disputed by many other reputable scientists, is not enough.

There may be other factors, not in their model, which explain their results.

Replication and casual research is needed, before we can be sure, one way or the other.



I'm still shocked that people are running public health campaigns on this, as if its completely proven, when its really still a matter of ongoing scientific debate.

I really don't see how they can run an ad that is so black and white about it, and that is putting the idea out there, socially, that obesity spreads like a biological contagion, when this is still very uncertain territory.

I'd really like someone from Safefood to weigh in on this issue, which is pivotal to their campaign.

safefood: Aileen

Hi Hanley,

The dictionary definition of plenty is 'A full or completely adequate amount or supply'. In the context of what we said on our website, it means 'in the right amounts so your body gets all the nutrients it needs while maintaining a healthy weight'

Hanley wrote: »

How much is "plenty"?

number10a

This is simply the most ridiculous method I have ever come across in deciding who is overweight and who isn't. I put in my waist size on your website (28") and I'm told "That's great, you're a healthy weight. Your waist is less than 37 inches." The fact of the matter is that when I had a 32" waist I was overweight. I'm 168cm, so I'm not that small. But I was still overweight at 32". But by your guidelines, I could have gained another 4.5" and been fine. Thankfully, I'm not stupid. But frankly, there are a lot of people out there who are and you're misleading them. Stop it now.

fatmammycat

Conclusion
Newly revised food based dietary guidelines were generated and are proposed for Ireland:
• Enjoy a wide variety of foods from the 5 food groups
• Watch your portion sizes
• Breads, cereals etc., are the best source of calories to fuel the body
• Eat at least 5 fruit and vegetables a day
• Choose reduced-fat milk, yoghurts and cheese more often
• Choose lean meat and poultry
• Use polyunsaturated or monounsaturated spreads and oils sparingly – reduced fat spreads are best
• Grill, bake, steam or boil food instead of frying • Cakes, biscuits confectionery, savoury snacks etc – limit these
foods to ‘sometimes’ but not everyday
• Limit salt intake
• Drink plenty of water
• Find an enjoyable way to keep physically active everyday
• Everyone should take a vitamin D supplement daily (5μg for 5-50 years, 10μg for 51+ years)
• All women of childbearing age who are sexually active should take a folic acid supplement (400μg per day)
• Breastfeeding should be encouraged and supported"


This is an absolute disaster in the making. Watch portion sizes. Okay. So what should they be then? Relience on cereals and bread as the best way to take in calories. A preference for low fat foods. Low fat spreads over natural spreads like butter? Be active, but how active? A slow ramble around the neighbourhood, or a heart thumping Crossfit session?
There's no real information here to help people. Basically it's keep doing the same thing people have been doing all along, while getting fatter and fatter every year.
Honestly, this makes me so upset and frustrated. If this is the best you guys can come up with WE as a nation are screwed. This is NOT a polemic, but there is a mountain of information out there which suggests leaning towards a paleo and primal diet– for eg- http://www.marksdailyapple.com/ is hugely beneficial to health and sustained weight loss: previously held views on fats and grains have already been debunked here by people who only ask that you read the studies they have offered. Empirically the pyramid system has failed. Look around you, why would you insist on promoting it?

You say people are influnced by friends and family, and fine, perhaps they are, but for that to change the base line must be a rehaul of daily diet, which cannot be done if you refuse to rethink or indeed discuss the food pyramid.

fatmammycat

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Hi Hanley,

The dictionary definition of plenty is 'A full or completely adequate amount or supply'. In the context of what we said on our website, it means 'in the right amounts so your body gets all the nutrients it needs while maintaining a healthy weight'

Oh my gosh.

Hanley

fatmammycat wrote: »

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. I'm going to respectfully bow out at this stage because I'll just start sniping otherwise.

There's no point even trying to debate the facts because no one is listening. They seem to have just come here for a pat on the back.

fatmammycat

Hanley wrote: »

Yeah. I'm going to respectfully bow out at this stage because I'll just start sniping otherwise.

There's no point even trying to debate the facts because no one is listening. They seem to have just come here for a pat on the back.

Understandable, I feel I might do the same. Am most disappointed by this whole project.

Roger Marbles

From the safefoods website:

http://www.safefood.eu/en/Consumer/Healthy-Living/Eating-Well/Eating-well1/The-eat-well-plate/Fats-and-oils/

Starchy foods like breads, rice, potatoes, pasta and cereals give us the energy we need to keep going each day. They are rich in vitamins and minerals, and the wholegrain varieties contain plenty of fibre. So they’re great for keeping your gut healthy, and can keep you feeling fuller for longer between meals.

Coeliac disease, gluten intolerance and their associations with other autoimmune diseases such as hashimoto's thyroditis and primary biliary cirrhosis? Insulin resistance? Plus high protein and fat meals have a greater satiating effect than high carbohydrate ones.

More in the eggs section:

Eggs do contain cholesterol and high cholesterol levels in our blood increases our risk of heart disease

Not even referenced mind you, but this is a well known myth. I invite you to look at the data from the WHO Monica study data which showed countries with lowest levels of cholesterol had the highest risk of heart disease.

From the fats section:

Eating too much saturated fat can put you at risk of heart disease

Check the meta-analysis on the previous page that I've linked and you've ignored thus far.

I could go on further about other areas like red meat etc, but safefood are clearly ignoring the wealth of scientific evidence out there and promoting unhealthy eating habits which will disimprove the health of the nation. The fact that they support Operation Transformation which peddles even more of this unhealthy advice is really

Depressing stuff.:(

Hanley

Chair - Mr John Dardis

A native of Co Kildare, educated at Newbridge College and University College Dublin, where he graduated with a degree in Agricultural Science, Mr Dardis was engaged in beef and tillage farming for many years. He has also worked as an agricultural journalist and was Arable Editor with the Irish Farmers Journal for 21 years, and was Agricultural Journalist of the Year in 1978.

Now... what POSSIBLE reason could the chairman of the board have for favouring grains as the main source of dietary calories.

This reeks of corrupution in the same was the original food pyramid did.

cailin_donn

Hi Dermot,

I remember first seeing this ad on telly one night and it's very effective. I actually felt a bit sick. It guilted me into going for a walk, so I do think it's a great ad and it's about time awareness was raised for weight issues in Ireland, I've been to Australia before and there's not half as many obese people there as over here. They have a much healthier lifestyle and attitude, my relations over there get up early to go to the gym, i don't know any Irish person (myself included) who's that committed!

My BMI is 26.5, and I'm about a stone and a half away from my ideal weight, but when i measured my waist it was only 30", I know it's just my body shape but i think there should be a different way to measure.

I think half the problem in this country is that resteraunt portions are far, far too big, and a healthy option in a resteraunt is rarely available. E.g., many resteraunts only do 1-2 salad dishes, and they aren't tasty or enjoyable, especially when you see the chicken and burgers that the other customers are eating!

It's great that someone's doing something, though, I was recently outside the local primary school gates when school ended and I was so shocked to see all of the young children, the majority were overweight or clinically obese. When I went there, which was only about 7 years ago, there wasn't that many overweight children AT ALL!

Is there any school programmes going to be set up? I think a proper Health Education class in schools would do the world of good, we had Health Ed- wasn't even worth mentioning. The teacher wasn't even really bothered so eventually we were allowed to count it as a "free class" to get some homework done (this was only last year!)

I think the whole country really needs to change their attitudes towards food and health!!!

sambuka41

Tirabaralla wrote: »

I quote EMPOWERED.

And secondly...Australia, really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Australia
Australia ranks 21st among the world "fattest" countries, Ireland ranks 103rd...

Wow I guess its the insane amounts of beer causing it!!

Personally there is so much wrong with this campaign, I had no idea about how dated our system is here, so this thread had educated me on that point.

My personal dislike about the campaign is that it is shaming people in to doing something about their health. Real change should come from people being empowered, from ads that show the benefits of health. Not by making people feel more uncomfortable or embarrassed about their bodies, since when has that tactic ever helped someone come forward and ask for help.

In a counselling setting the therapist is encouraged to offer unconditional positive regard for the client as this fosters an environment where someone feels safe enough to discuss their problems, THIS campaign on the other hand does the OPPOSITE it makes people feel judged, infected and contagious. God why would anyone wanna own up to that, or speak with someone when all they are being told is that they are in denial and spreading it to their friends and family. :mad::mad::mad:

Kadongy

The way this competition is presented is funny to me. It sounds like prizes are being given for being fat. It's funny when it is from a campaign to try to tackle obesity

aquaceri

Hi Darragh,

If "they" - the government or whoever want the Irish to slim down and get healthy then why is it that healthy food is so much more expensive than unhealthy food!

I spent 12e yesterday on 2 punetts of peaches and two VERY small punetts of rasberries! In a family with two children they were almost gone by the time I got them in the door....If your unemployed like alot of us are now then most people will choose to spend that 12 e on something else...I could have fed us all in the chip shop for that much money!

Healthy food is also not readily available when your on the go...unless you bring your own you really don't know what's in the food your buying and as we all know packaging information is very deceiving! Big branded weight loss companies (not mentioning any names) are being allowed to rip us off left right and centre and getting away with it...These products should be easily available to everybody not just the people who can afford to pay for it. No wonder we are all turning into fatties!

That's just my 2c on it all....

loconnor1001

Its crazy to think, but totally believable. Im only 30 and you see the kids are way heavier now than when I was a kid, let alone their grandparents. Its absolutely shocking, but I think we live in a fast food culture, and people seem too lazy to cook a meal, also all the processed and pre packaged crap we eat can't be good. The proof is in the statistics. I constantly worry about my weight, but I think I have to so that I stay in control, its very easy to slip and have it creep up.
I think more people should be worried, weight causes so many problems, I know because my father was diabetic (purely down to food) which contributed to his death at 59 along with the fact that he was heavy. Parents especially should be leading by example, eating at least some what healthy and taking the kids outside instead of leaving in the room to play video games. I never sat around playing video games, we didn't have a nintendo until I was 10, and playing hours on end would never have been tolerated, I was chucked out the door to play until it was time for dinner, and the simple fact is that I wanted to be outside playing. I see it in my nephews and nieces, they have to practically be thrown out the door to play and then they just whine to come in, no interest in anything but video games and tv. Sad really.