The Legacy of Brian Lenihan

ilovesleep

This is probably going to be very black on my behave but I find it very hard to show any remorse for that man.

I understand where Ireland is and how we got here. BL was part and parcel of the government that took us down. I understand he inherited his seat when all the damage was done but he and FF made it worse for Ireland with the handling of the bust. BL was finance minister when the bust hit us. The bank guarantee ruinned us. Guaranteeing a few hundred billion of banking debt when Ireland was only taking in about 35 billion. Not only that BL had three budgets to work and play around with - dec 08, spring 09, and dec 09, and he waited until the IMF came to start cutting and chopping and hitting us hard.

I only wish he didn't die and he continued on and suffer and suffer badly. All you have to do is go up to Temple Street or Crumlin childrens hospitals and take one good hard look at all those beautiful children who are ill and may not receive the care and the treatment that they need due to cutbacks because the banks are more important, apparently.

Laminations

ilovesleep wrote: »

I only wish he didn't die and he continued on and suffer and suffer badly. All you have to do is go up to Temple Street or Crumlin childrens hospitals and take one good hard look at all those beautiful children who are ill and may not receive the care and the treatment that they need due to cutbacks because the banks are more important, apparently.

Whether it be accident, incompetence or crony capitalism (socialism), Brian Lenihan was not Hitler. He may have deserved to lose an election, he may have deserved to face an inquiry, and he may have deserved to be stripped of payments and pensions (like many politicians) for disservice to the country -again whether it be mistakes, circumstance or incompetence, none of the politicians from any party who were in the Dail over the last decade deserve their remuneration. He may have deserved a lot of things but he did not deserve to die and he certainly didn't deserve endless suffering from cancer like you suggest.

rodento

Ilovesleep, guess you shoud blame the irish people for voting in FF for all those years. Blame FG for been so lame that the IMF had to come in before they got voted into power.

Have you ever wondered what would have happenned if people managed our country properly:eek:

Loads of jobs have been lost cause of the recession, but would they have been there in the first place if the boom hadn't happenned

What would ireland have been like if we never came out of the 80's recession, so get off your high horse and use your head for a second

steelcityblues

According to our great and trustworthy friends in the mainstream media, Brian Lenihan was:

'Courageous'
'Generous'
'Gentleman'
'Heroic'
'Intelligent'
'Misinformed'
'Patriot'
'Progressive'
'Statesman'

That is some list of qualities all rolled into one, that 99% of us mortals could only wish to accomplish altogether in our lifetimes.

autonomy

steelcityblues wrote: »

According to our great and trustworthy friends in the mainstream media, Brian Lenihan was:

'Courageous'
'Generous'
'Gentleman'
'Heroic'
'Intelligent'
'Misinformed'
'Patriot'
'Progressive'
'Statesman'

That is some list of qualities all rolled into one, that 99% of us mortals could only wish to accomplish altogether in our lifetimes.

This is the same media that for the past 3 years have been ripping Lenihan and his party to shreds, such hypocrites!

Sand

What I cant wait for is when Bertie passes on, the amount of tripe that will be written in his praise in the Irish media.

steelcityblues

autonomy wrote: »

This is the same media that for the past 3 years have been ripping Lenihan and his party to shreds, such hypocrites!

Well - they didn't really. I know Lenihan would often be described as the 'only one with credibility', and the one who can 'represent us on the international stage' from these same idiots.

Their hard on for Lenihan has always been boggling to say the least.

femur61

Sand wrote: »

What I cant wait for is when Bertie passes on, the amount of tripe that will be written in his praise in the Irish media.

If Bertie passed away tomorrow I suspect he wouldn't get an ounce of the same accolades. Personally, its a bit Irish a few days ago the same media would rip the sh1t out him, now they are saying "what a great fellow he was". All I can think is a number 85bn and rising.

thebman

Sand wrote: »

What I cant wait for is when Bertie passes on, the amount of tripe that will be written in his praise in the Irish media.

I know it wasn't meant that way but that reads badly TBH.

You can't wait until Bertie dies to see the media reaction?

We call know its wrong to slam someone when they are after dying. Its disrespectful to their family members. Do people really think its okay to kick a family when they are down?

I'd hope not. We can all return to analysing if he meant the mistakes he made or not in a few weeks time.

end a eknny

steelcityblues wrote: »

Well - they didn't really. I know Lenihan would often be described as the 'only one with credibility', and the one who can 'represent us on the international stage' from these same idiots.

Their hard on for Lenihan has always been boggling to say the least.

he was a dub

swordofislam

D1stant wrote: »

Did you know him?

Coming on here and saying he was irresponsible to his family is a very low comment.

It was wicked of him not to spend the last eighteen months with his family. Unfortunately his decision has harmed my family.

thebman wrote: »

Do people really think its okay to kick a family when they are down?

If Lenihan cared about his family he would have spent the last eighteen months with them instead of doing his damnedest to destroy this country.

You are asking us to care about his family more than he himself did. Your empathy is laudable. Lenihan would not have empathised with you.

If you had pancreatic cancer I hope you would treasure the moments with your wife and children.

Was Lenihan psychopath who enjoyed the misery he caused?
Is that why he lacked the moral centre necessary to condemn Haughey for stealing from his father's liver fund?
Was it an aspect of that psychopathy that made him decide that if he was going to die he would take Ireland with him?

Why didn't he love his children enough to spend time with them as he was dying?
How would have scored on Bob Hall's psychopath checklist?

thebman wrote: »

You can't wait until Bertie dies to see the media reaction?

The quicker Bertie dies the quicker this country can stop paying his pension.

ilovesleep

rodento wrote: »

Ilovesleep, guess you shoud blame the irish people for voting in FF for all those years. Blame FG for been so lame that the IMF had to come in before they got voted into power.

Have you ever wondered what would have happenned if people managed our country properly:eek:

Loads of jobs have been lost cause of the recession, but would they have been there in the first place if the boom hadn't happenned

What would ireland have been like if we never came out of the 80's recession, so get off your high horse and use your head for a second

They were put there to do a job. You, I or anyone else here were not elected to the dail for that job. It is not our responsibilty to keep the state finances in order.

Sand

@thebman

I know it wasn't meant that way but that reads badly TBH.

You can't wait until Bertie dies to see the media reaction?

Do I hope for his death? No. Do I look forward with amusement to the breakout of national hypocrisy and delusion, yes. The Irish media are pathetic in their cap doffing, forlock tugging carry on. Look at Charlie Haughey: one of the finest crooks Ireland has every raised (he even skimmed off the money donated to Lenihan Snr's medical expenses!), lauded as a saint and wonderful statesman. Absolutely hilarious.

As people say, its impossible to do satire in Ireland.

We call know its wrong to slam someone when they are after dying. Its disrespectful to their family members. Do people really think its okay to kick a family when they are down?

I havent kicked his family at all.

For example, I think SwordofIslams comments are wrong: stating "Why didn't he love his children enough to spend time with them as he was dying?" is an awful thing to say.

But that said, Im amnt going to engage in hypocrisy by describing Lenihan as a great statesman or a wonderful, courageous politician. And if people engage in that sort of political propaganda and revisionism then Im going to have a very hard time biting my tongue.

Its very possible to express sympathy for a families loss without trying to score very controversial political points out of it.

PennyLane88

I might not have agreed with any of his political decisions in relation to the bank guarantees/ NAMA and the bailout deal that is crippling the country to such as extent, and we probably havent seen the peak yet.

However i think it was unfortuante that he was given office for Finance, when really Bertie and Clown (sorry, ahem, Cowen) were throwing away money like there was no tomorrow. So the blame of the financial difficulties we now face lie with Clown and Bertie.
I admired his will to stay working during his illness, right up until he knew he hadn't long left. I dont know how many people would've done this. Admiration in the fact he never complained about it, even though he was obviously in pain.

But he was a professional, dignified man, and i have to respect him for that

May he Rest in Peace.

Liam Byrne

Sorry, but half of the accolades are pure tripe.

Honest and dignified? Statesmanlike ? Competent ? Maybe in a personal capacity, but definitely not in a professional capacity.

Roll on next week when we won't have to listen to such tripe spouted about the guy who refused to read the reports commissioned on the state of the banks before he signed a generation away.

Professionally : good riddance
As a person : rest in peace I can just about manage

Wolfe Tone

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry, but half of the accolades are pure tripe.

Honest and dignified? Statesmanlike ? Competent ? Maybe in a personal capacity, but definitely not in a professional capacity.

Roll on next week when we won't have to listen to such tripe spouted about the guy who refused to read the reports commissioned on the state of the banks before he signed a generation away.

Professionally : good riddance
As a person : rest in peace I can just about manage

Not often we agree Liam, but you are dead right. If Bertie were to die tomorrow I bet we would have similar tripe.

flutered

as a disabled person whos pension has been drastically cut, who now has poverty as a constant companion as well as all the other misfortunate people who have had no choice but to embrace poverty, let me state it is a grave pity that this has happened three years too late, karma is a bitch tho.

ilovesleep

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry, but half of the accolades are pure tripe.

Honest and dignified? Statesmanlike ? Competent ? Maybe in a personal capacity, but definitely not in a professional capacity.

Roll on next week when we won't have to listen to such tripe spouted about the guy who refused to read the reports commissioned on the state of the banks before he signed a generation away.

Professionally : good riddance
As a person : rest in peace I can just about manage

Well said Liam

end a eknny

i feel sorry for people living in poverty in this country but i feel really sorry for the people in other countries who live in real poverty. i just wish some people would dry their eyes. the biggest mistake the f.f goverment made was giving irish people some sort of dellusional mindset that we should be or ever were better off than the rest of the world

raymon

end a eknny wrote: »

i feel sorry for people living in poverty in this country but i feel really sorry for the people in other countries who live in real poverty. i just wish some people would dry their eyes. the biggest mistake the f.f goverment made was giving irish people some sort of dellusional mindset that we should be or ever were better off than the rest of the world

FF gave the Irish people nothing.

Liam Byrne

raymon wrote: »

FF gave the Irish people nothing.

Y'see that depends on whether or not you subscribe to FF definitions.

They have different definitions of "the Irish people" and "we all" which are alien to the rest of us.

So if you're an Irish person included in their definition, they gave ya loads - a "get out of jail free" card on your massive debts.

But if your debts were manageable and you didn't subscribe to their boom, then they took from ya to give to the gamblers, making your debts subsequently unmanageable.

It's not their fault, though - that delusion helps them sleep at night pretending that we all deserve it for being greedy.

flutered

raymon wrote: »

FF gave the Irish people nothing.

oh yes the did, they have given us and future generations seriously hard lives they have burdened us with debt and poverty for generations to come while they will be living on the lap of luxury.

beeftotheheels

flutered wrote: »

as a disabled person whos pension has been drastically cut, who now has poverty as a constant companion as well as all the other misfortunate people who have had no choice but to embrace poverty, let me state it is a grave pity that this has happened three years too late, karma is a bitch tho.

So let me see, a recipient of the DPMA, a medical card, free units of electricity, the fuel allowance in winter, free travel, free tv licence is so impoverished as to justify suggesting that it is karma that someone died young while trying to negate a lot of the disastrous decisions made by his predecessors which resulted in said DPMA etc being far too high?

Poverty is not defined as being unable to buy a new flat screen tv or not being able to go on holidays. Poverty suggests an inability to put groceries on the table, an inability to heat your home, an inability to pay basic bills (I'm excluding an inability to pay a mortgage since if any one who took on a mortgage should have taken into account their ability to repay it and if not disabled should have insured it against disability).

I don't see that receiving €188 a week qualifies.

I have a sibling on the DPMA, he's not rich but he is certainly not suffering from poverty in any meaningful sense of the word. There is no chance he could afford to buy a new TV, things like that tend to come as hand me downs from the rest of us (and indeed on occasion as hand me downs from the neighbors), but he an afford to buy groceries, to buy fuel, and he certainly can afford the humanity to recognize that the death of the father of young children is not karma for anything, it is a tragedy.

That poverty, the poverty in terms of basic humanity which could lead to referring to the death of someone as karma, I do pity!

end a eknny

flutered wrote: »

oh yes the did, they have given us and future generations seriously hard lives they have burdened us with debt and poverty for generations to come while they will be living on the lap of luxury.

would people stop moaning about poverty 75% of the population of the world dont own a house dont have enough food dont have proper facilities dont have education health services running water etc. please if your going to moan about not being able to go on holidays buy the luxuries you got used to in the boom. say things are a bit tight but dont insult the majority of the population of the world by claiming poverty

jmayo

Pal wrote: »

You call comments like that discussing political legacy ?

You forgot the rest of my post. :rolleyes:

My point was that we have eejits lauding him and falling over themselves in praise.
In this case most of them are ffers or media lackies.
We even get the same sh**e when other famous non politicans dying.

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

Sad death of a young man who had a lot of talent. I did not agree with his bank guarantee especially with Anglo, though he may have been misled by banks, but he and Biffo should not have had a gun put to their heads in the middle of the night.

BS. You would get an A in it if it was a Leaving Cert topic.
The signs were on the wall for months that Irish banks, one in particular was in serious trouble and biffo had actually met the chairman and board on a few occassions.
BTW there were voices saying Anglo shoudl not be included but they were ignored.

K-9 wrote: »

Was Anglo some sort of standalone bank in the middle of nowhere?

Not exposed to AIB, BOI, PTSB or the Irish Central Bank?

Care to explain why INBS was included ?
How systemic was the primary mortgage lender ?
Why did it have to cost us 10 billion plus ?
Ah but shure doesn't Roman Abramovich need the millions to invest in Chelsea. :rolleyes:

Pal wrote: »

Refreshing to find somebody who actually knows what they are talking about.

Sadly there's a lot of ill informed people here spouting pathetic nonsense and that in itself says a lot about where we are now.

Brian Lenihan went to great length to understand how finance works. Plenty here haven't got a scooby do.

Pity it took him billions of our money to learn a bit about finance. :rolleyes:
Must have been the most expensive education in the world.
That would be to go with his cheapest bailout.

rodento wrote: »

He could have put his head in his hands and told us we are all doomed, but he didn't. He gave and offered hope and set us on a path out of the difficulties we are in

Who are we talking about again ?

steelcityblues wrote: »

According to our great and trustworthy friends in the mainstream media, Brian Lenihan was:

'Courageous'
'Generous'
'Gentleman'
'Heroic'
'Intelligent'
'Misinformed'
'Patriot'
'Progressive'
'Statesman'
...

Who the fook is that describing because it shure ain't the two faced unethical incompetent that passed away last week ?

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

would people stop moaning about poverty 75% of the population of the world dont own a house dont have enough food dont have proper facilities dont have education health services running water etc. please if your going to moan about not being able to go on holidays buy the luxuries you got used to in the boom. say things are a bit tight but dont insult the majority of the population of the world by claiming poverty

Irish people don't "own" their own houses either - the banks do. The same banks that we have to give additional cash to because of FF's decisions.

If you stop insulting the population of Ireland by pretending that they all bought multiple houses and got greedy then we'll stop having to correct you.

Sweating over how to pay next month's mortgage is not "a bit tight".

flutered

end a eknny wrote: »

would people stop moaning about poverty 75% of the population of the world dont own a house dont have enough food dont have proper facilities dont have education health services running water etc. please if your going to moan about not being able to go on holidays buy the luxuries you got used to in the boom. say things are a bit tight but dont insult the majority of the population of the world by claiming poverty

your post suggests that you do not depend on welfare, i am fortunate that my family have gone their as i would be unable to rear and educate them to a level that both they and i would aim to achive, my youngest i helped put thro collage, her last year was a struggle as she made the decision to study only, so her part time job had to go, yes it was worth it in the end, as she had a job got before she graduated, i have a grandchild who is , starting first year the books alone cost 320 euro, travel cost are sky high, add fuel costs to take and collect her to and from the bus stop, send another to primary school, another to play school,then add a little for fone and other such extras, btw they are no longer luxurys but necessetys, we live in a developed country so to suggest that dire poverty become the norm for people on welfare is an insult to them and my intellegince.

flutered

end a eknny wrote: »

would people stop moaning about poverty 75% of the population of the world dont own a house dont have enough food dont have proper facilities dont have education health services running water etc. please if your going to moan about not being able to go on holidays buy the luxuries you got used to in the boom. say things are a bit tight but dont insult the majority of the population of the world by claiming poverty

i beg to differ i am not insulting the majority of the worlds population, my country has been raped by this excuse for a mof and his buddys, the dogs on the road knew what was happening, they also knew, the difference is they skewed the road to the benifet of a chosen few,

margio

yee are all ****ed up. a pack of sickos is all yee are. i'm just going to say that to yee. Don't even bother replying cuz I Have more respect for a deceased man than to argue with a pack of feeling sorry for themselves bitter psychos. some sick and selfish comments made here. what he did in the last year and a half is his own business, he probably would have died sooner if he was at home watching TV. Atlest he didn't pis his life away feeling sorry for himself like yee wasters. whether some of yee are disabled are not, it is no excuse to be posting crap like that. Political opinions are irrelevant at the moment. The biggest obstacle to this country achieving economic stability is whingers like yee. GROW UP SADOS

K-9

jmayo wrote: »

Care to explain why INBS was included ?
How systemic was the primary mortgage lender ?
Why did it have to cost us 10 billion plus ?
Ah but shure doesn't Roman Abramovich need the millions to invest in Chelsea. :rolleyes:

You asked me that on a separate thread and I've the same answer as then, I don't know.

By answering my question you accept Anglo was different to INBS?