The Legacy of Brian Lenihan

steelcityblues · 14-06-2011 03:46PM

Not exactly a massive attendance figure, to justify the endless fawning coverage of recent days.

Laminations · 14-06-2011 03:47PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

1000+
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0614/breaking5.html

ah yes, an inspiration, if I ever want to figure out to rob an entire country from it's people I'll take my inspiration from there, and how is it patriotic to dump billions of private foreign debt on our citizens :rolleyes:

In fairness he could be seen as an inspiration for others battling a terminal illness, may have nothing to do with his political decisions, personally he was inspirational.

DexyDrain · 14-06-2011 03:56PM

steelcityblues wrote: »

Not exactly a massive attendance figure, to justify the endless fawning coverage of recent days.

The estimates for Gerry Ryan's funeral all seem to say 'hundreds', nobody, even those as blind as some on this thread, was claiming he 'destroyed the country', I think it is a very respectable turnout given the level of irrational and misplaced hostility to Lenihan.

notwise · 14-06-2011 04:25PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

oh, come on...
he (among others) presided over the biggest scandal in Irish history, handing billions of banking debt over to the public and lied constantly to the same public about what was going on.

I for one am not sorry to see the back of him.

Ye may feel that's harsh but he imposed hardship and suffering on tens of thousands of Irish people due to his financial decisions as minister and did it all without regret and with a smile on his face.

EDIT:
FYI, I did not create this thread, it was split by one of the Mods from another

HOpe i never have to meet you in person, as was already said, what a prick!! Sometimes I question humanity. Some people are made of stone.

Flibbles · 14-06-2011 04:29PM

No matter what you think of the man, or his financial choices, how could any one of you possibly stand up for him after he stated for about a week, time after time, "No we're not getting a bail out" before saying "Okay we're getting a bail out". The week that happened was the week I lost any and all respect for the man.

Pal · 14-06-2011 04:33PM

steelcityblues wrote: »

Not exactly a massive attendance figure, to justify the endless fawning coverage of recent days.

Church only holds about 250 people.
Outside the churchyard and road were packed.

margio · 14-06-2011 05:42PM

notwise wrote: »

HOpe i never have to meet you in person, as was already said, what a prick!! Sometimes I question humanity. Some people are made of stone.

well said, not wise. There are sick twisted individuals on here, and I'm shamed to even belong to the same specie as them. Go on report that. Ye're slating the untimely death of a man who suffered for over a year, writing stuff like ''I'm glad Brian Lenihan is dead''. and ''I am glad to see the back of him'', and some of yee had the neck to report me, while yee are the ones who should be facing sanctions and finally have this thread removed. It is a blatant disrespect to the HUMAN BEING and good man Brian Lenihan was. By the way some of yee are going on on you'd swear he was a leading member of al quaeda.

Mr.Micro · 14-06-2011 05:48PM

Pal wrote: »

Church only holds about 250 people.
Outside the churchyard and road were packed.

Probably all FF stalwarts and all those he helped to bail out., sorry for the cynicism.

As a human being he was probably a decent person like most others. As a politician he was poor and as a Minister, dire, I am afraid to say. He was hyped as knowledgeable but he was not, and if there is no Lenihan in the Dail for a while it will not be a bad thing IMO.

liammur · 14-06-2011 05:55PM

The media have gone completely overboard about how great he was. The likes of bertie ahern also thinks he's great, but was very slow to give a job. Sums us up as a people.

1 thing we can't disagree on however, is that he did try his best in very difficult circumstances.
Just what a pity he thought it better to cut the carers of this world rather than the fatcats in the PS.

Inverse to the power of one! · 14-06-2011 06:24PM

By the way some of yee are going on on you'd swear he was a leading member of al quaeda.

Wish he was! Countless wars and lives would have been saved by the way of incompetence!

Regardless of who he was as a person and of the circumstances of his death, most peoples interaction with him will not be that of a personal level, but that of having to pay for his legacy for a long time to come.

We're a bit too far on down the road to be carrying on with this eulogizing the dead paddywackery!

RIP, but history and the generations who carry it's burden are less sympathetic creatures.

Mr.Micro · 14-06-2011 06:39PM

liammur wrote: »

The media have gone completely overboard about how great he was. The likes of bertie ahern also thinks he's great, but was very slow to give a job. Sums us up as a people.

1 thing we can't disagree on however, is that he did try his best in very difficult circumstances.
Just what a pity he thought it better to cut the carers of this world rather than the fatcats in the PS.

Would one expect anything else from the oik Ahern....like he would know the value of anything or anybody.

margio · 14-06-2011 06:47PM

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

Wish he was! Countless wars and lives would have been saved by the way of incompetence!

Regardless of who he was as a person and of the circumstances of his death, most peoples interaction with him will not be that of a personal level, but that of having to pay for his legacy for a long time to come.

We're a bit too far on down the road to be carrying on with this eulogizing the dead paddywackery!

RIP, but history and the generations who carry it's burden are less sympathetic creatures.

And you know for sure that he was a bad Minister for finance, do you?, what if he left the banks go under causing chaos, is that what he should have done. I'm not sure if you remember but despite the backlash against Fianna Fail, alot of people felt Brian Lenihan was their choice for finance minister. maybe a good finance minister has to enforce painful decisions. He just took over finance when the **** was beginning to hit the fan. Michael Noonan is going around at the moment like a spare prick at a wedding trying to dress up his election promise u turns. time will tell I guess but under the circumstances I Believe he did his best. He could have taken the opposite decisions, the banks could have collapsed and I suppose that would be his fault aswell. If damage was done by politicians to this country, it was done along time before Brian Lenihan was handed the post.

flutered · 14-06-2011 07:03PM

he cut the income of the poor the carers the disabled the termially ill the widows, ah yes he was great. take off the rose (lenihan) coloured glasses, did he hit his fathers old buddys or their siblings, he actually gave a rise to the dail and senead members, in the same budget, the top civil servants got their cut reversed, being the cynical batsard that i am, i would like to think that the round of applause he got leaving the church was from relieved citizens delighted that he could do no more damage to their country.

margio · 14-06-2011 07:15PM

your not cynical, your just twisted. what budget are you talking about. the one thing I disagreed with lenihan was his 2008 budget when he raised the rate of the dole, in the midst of a recession. plus the last budget where the mimimum wage was slashed. if cutting the minimum wage was the way to go then the rate of social welfare should have been cut by the same amount that the minimum wagers would be down. prob about €40

CiaranC · 14-06-2011 07:30PM

Lenihan was very much another old school FFer from one of our lovely political dynasties, on the make like all his mates in FF. These people destroyed our country by ramping up a property bubble to line the pockets of their cronies and benefactors. Every decision they took was in their own interest and in the interest of their buddies in the tents in Galway, and no amount of bleating from their gombeen supporters will change that. They deserve no plaudits, these people are traitors and Lenihan was very much one of them all through his political career. And on top of all that, he was grossly incompetent and hopelessly out of his depth.

The FF sheep are one thing, but reading the sycophants fawning over the man in the national press is nauseating.

Inverse to the power of one! · 14-06-2011 07:37PM

margio wrote: »

And you know for sure that he was a bad Minister for finance, do you?

Yes.

margio wrote: »

what if he left the banks go under causing chaos, is that what he should have done.

We would have a broken economy and no debt. Now we have a broken economy and massive debt, with the future of the Euro now resting on our sorry behinds.

margio wrote: »

I'm not sure if you remember but despite the backlash against Fianna Fail, alot of people felt Brian Lenihan was their choice for finance minister.

A lot of people invested in property and created the bubble.
A lot of people kept voting for FF over a period of over ten years.
A lot of people did nothing as the country went to ruin.

Just because a lot of people think something, doesn't make it so!

margio wrote: »

maybe a good finance minister has to enforce painful decisions.

Maybe a good finance minister should have a better grasp of economics then of Law!

Maybe a good finance minister might hold up better against his peers in comparision:
http://www.thejournal.ie/brian-lenihan-voted-worst-finance-minister-in-europe-2010-12/

margio wrote: »

He just took over finance when the **** was beginning to hit the fan.

So?

margio wrote: »

Michael Noonan is going around at the moment like a spare prick at a wedding trying to dress up his election promise u turns.

So?

margio wrote: »

time will tell I guess but under the circumstances I Believe he did his best.

You don't run successful enterprises on people who try their best, you succeed on the basis of people who CAN.

margio wrote: »

He could have taken the opposite decisions, the banks could have collapsed and I suppose that would be his fault aswell. If damage was done by politicians to this country, it was done along time before Brian Lenihan was handed the post.

And that has anything to do with his performance as finance minister?

Also you're quick to call Noonan a "spare prick" with no regard to the mess he inherited but we should be understanding of Lenihan?!?

Sorry, not in the mood to play nice just because he's RIP, the facts remain the same regardless and the facts are the legacy of unemployment and immigration once again handed down to younger generations from the Gombeen state which Brian Lenihan played his part in sustaining though out his life.

Laminations · 14-06-2011 07:52PM

margio wrote: »

And you know for sure that he was a bad Minister for finance, do you?

Ah now margio, while I completely agree with you in condemning the nastiness of some of the posts in this thread welcoming the mans death and I completely agree that he was a nice guy and loving father and husband, it has to be noted when discussing his political legacy that his decisions in finance (whether advised or not) were quite poor. He was voted worst Finance Minister in Europe twice IIRC. You are right that the blame doesn't fall on him, he should never have been handed the most important ministry within that much ministerial experience or without a background in finance. I think he was doing a good job in justice and would've proved himself a great justice minister.

swordofislam · 14-06-2011 07:57PM

Laminations wrote: »

I completely agree that he was a nice guy and loving father and husband

He didn't choose to focus on his family for the last 18 months of his life.

Laminations · 14-06-2011 07:59PM

I think everyone should remember that legacy threads are for evaluating a persons contribution in their political career. However a man is not his career and there is far more that goes into making a persons character than the job they were doing for the last few years (which is all we know them from). So I hope people will stick to evaluating decisions made in the mans political career rather than taking this career as evidence of his character, a character none of us really know as none of us really knew BL the man, we were only exposed to BL the politician. I hope others would see such an approach as fair and respectful and nit an attempt to judge him as a person, just evaluate his public career.

Wolfe Tone · 14-06-2011 08:02PM

Well we can say for certain that the man was a liar.

Laminations · 14-06-2011 08:04PM

swordofislam wrote: »

He didn't choose to focus on his family for the last 18 months of his life.

That's nothing to do with his career and I don't think anyone is in a position to judge him on that. Maybe he was in denial and though quite literally he could work through it, maybe it was too painful on him to be with his family knowing his time was ending, maybe it was an attempt to ease the pain on his children, maybe he saw his duty as paramount and put the country before his family.

Nobody knows what was going through his head, it could have been a coping mechanism, it could've been a greater sense of duty. Dont judge him that way, I'd recommend these threads stick to debating his public career decisions.

steelcityblues · 14-06-2011 08:05PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well we can say for certain that the man was a liar.

'I don't accept that!'

Laminations · 14-06-2011 08:07PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well we can say for certain that the man was a liar.

In politics we can say this. To do so in a general description of his character is a bit rich. You didnt know him and in describing BL the man, liar wouldn't be a cardinal trait for me - as a politician, yes he lied. About the IMF, about the heave on Cowen, about the cheapest bailout ever etc.

We all need to be careful of making global assessments of his character based on the limited experience we have of him as a politician

furiousox · 14-06-2011 08:08PM

The legacy of Brian Lenihan?
That would be the USC wouldn't it?
Thanks Brian!

Laminations · 14-06-2011 08:11PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well we can say for certain that the man was a liar.

Also making these global assessments is unhelpful. Have you ever lied in your life? I know I have. Wiuld that make it acceptable to summarise my contribution to this world as 'he was a liar'. Giving specific examples of lies rather than judgements of his character would be better for debate and less inflammatory

exador · 14-06-2011 08:15PM

RIP - Brian Lenehan

Very sad... He worked very hard in the local community and always made himself available over and above the call of duty. He will be very sorely missed...

Wolfe Tone · 14-06-2011 08:18PM

Laminations wrote: »

Also making these global assessments is unhelpful. Have you ever lied in your life? I know I have. Wiuld that make it acceptable to summarise my contribution to this world as 'he was a liar'. Giving specific examples of lies rather than judgements of his character would be better for debate and less inflammatory

I certainly never lied about as big or important things as Lenihan did. He was a liar and someone who put his party and career before the Irish people.

We all know what he lied about.

Just because the man happened to have cancer when he ruined the country does not somehow make him a hero or absolve him of blame.

He was one of the worst finance ministers this country ever had, an incompetent disaster.

This thread is about his legacy, his legacy is one of lies and incompetency. He and his party have brought this country to its knees.

Sir Oxman · 14-06-2011 08:25PM

exador wrote: »

RIP - Brian Lenehan

Very sad... He worked very hard in the local community and always made himself available over and above the call of duty. He will be very sorely missed...

There's a condolences thread for that.