Legalize Cannabis Ireland

yop

SteelyDanJalapeno

Oldtree wrote: »

I don't think thats a good argument, killer sugar is legal so legalize dope.:P

Kinda serious though, the amount of disease based deaths(i.e. Diabetes, Obesity ) that are directly linked to sugar are in the hundreds of thousands each year,

I'm just using this a quick simple example, why is it not banned?

Oldtree

So you are suggesting that we ban obese people for their own good?
Seriously though, two wrongs dont make a right, alcohol is legal so should everything else????

mikom

Oldtree wrote: »

So you are suggesting that we ban obese people for their own good?
Seriously though, two wrongs dont make a right, alcohol is legal so should everything else????

Jailing a person for consuming parts of a plant is wrong.
How many "wrongs" are we up to now?

Oldtree

The chemical parts of a plant, not the vegetative stuff.

Its not a question of right or wrong, more one of compounding an error. look at where drink has got us. I am not against legalisation for adults but I do require many more studies and open debate before our democratic society should do so.

As mentioned above, starting points would be the equivilent of breathiliser/urine tests for drivers, strictly not for the under 18's, education in all its forms, controlled sources (growing and supply), etc.

Jailing someone for smoking dope is wrong in my opinion, jailing someone for smoking dope and driving is not!

mikom

Oldtree wrote: »

The chemical parts of a plant, not the vegetative stuff.

Go easy on the
Someone might think you are on something.

Oldtree wrote: »

Its not a question of right or wrong, more one of compounding an error. look at where drink has got us.

Look at where drink prohibition got the yanks in the 20's and 30's.
Gansterville.......... sound familiar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVuwREbGh3w

They got sense though.

Oldtree wrote: »

Jailing someone for smoking dope is wrong in my opinion, jailing someone for smoking dope and driving is not!

No argument there.

paul26

saa wrote: »

Aggh the amount of misspelled instances of legalise is ridiculous.

We would need more measures to prevent drugged drivers, my biggest concern would be the inability for this country to deal with anymore cases of psychiatric problems of which there would be an increase, its just the risk that goes along with this drug and we're not able to handle that.

Why would we need more measure to prevent drugged drivers, well not anymore than we need them now, because whether we like it or not a hughe % of the population smoke weed, as I was growing up nearly everyone I new smoked pot. And I think the toxins & contaminants that are mixed with weed on the streets will lead to far more cases of serious illness than psychiatric cases, in all my years of smoking weed I have never met anyone who had a psychiatric related to pot so the risk are not that high. There is no clear link between marijuana and psychiatric illness,

Laisurg

Oldtree wrote: »

The chemical parts of a plant, not the vegetative stuff.

Its not a question of right or wrong, more one of compounding an error. look at where drink has got us. I am not against legalisation for adults but I do require many more studies and open debate before our democratic society should do so.

As mentioned above, starting points would be the equivilent of breathiliser/urine tests for drivers, strictly not for the under 18's, education in all its forms, controlled sources (growing and supply), etc.

Jailing someone for smoking dope is wrong in my opinion, jailing someone for smoking dope and driving is not!

Canada already did all that in 2002 and were going to completely legalize it, however the US bullied them out of it because they thought people would be bringing mass amounts of it across the border.

Irishgoatman

I've been following this thread with interest and, I must admit that I'm still sitting on the fence. The only thing I have to say, and I think it will be the only comment, is that as someone said much earlier, our government has, at the moment, more important things to worry about. There are so many pieces of legislation waiting to be signed into law, but keep getting put on the long finger, that to throw another debate into the mix would not help.
An example is: I own a campervan. Due to an oversite years ago I am not required to have it tested each year (but I do).
Most of the campervans in this country are driving around without having been tested. The proposals for a test were drawn up and approved last October but are still sitting on a ministers desk waiting to be signed. This is a minor issue compared with some that are outstanding.

At the moment we have enough problems.

By the way, I have medical problems that could possibly be eased with the use of cannabis but I stick to legal, prescribed drugs.

sdiff

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I've been following this thread with interest and, I must admit that I'm still sitting on the fence. The only thing I have to say, and I think it will be the only comment, is that as someone said much earlier, our government has, at the moment, more important things to worry about. There are so many pieces of legislation waiting to be signed into law, but keep getting put on the long finger, that to throw another debate into the mix would not help.
An example is: I own a campervan. Due to an oversite years ago I am not required to have it tested each year (but I do).
Most of the campervans in this country are driving around without having been tested. The proposals for a test were drawn up and approved last October but are still sitting on a ministers desk waiting to be signed. This is a minor issue compared with some that are outstanding.

At the moment we have enough problems.

By the way, I have medical problems that could possibly be eased with the use of cannabis but I stick to legal, prescribed drugs.

I actually think it is an important piece of legislation because it's more then just Joe smoking his pot. There's also the huge criminal gangs that are funded by it being illegal, money that could be kept in honest businessmen and growers who live in Ireland.

bandit197

The amount of misinformation and non truths that are trotted out again and again whenever this argument comes up never fails to amaze me.

The first step that we need to take as a country is to decriminalise all controlled substances.

Portugal done just that in 2001 and, ten years later, we can now examine the data and establish if it has worked. The results show:

• Addiction levels to hard drugs have declined dramatically
• Portugal's approach has led to a significant drop in drug-related crimes
• Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%....proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.
• New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half.
• Portugal has not become a haven for "drug tourism" as was initially feared by some who opposed the plan.

Health experts in Portugal said on Friday that Portugal's decision 10 years ago to decriminalise drug use and treat addicts rather than punishing them is an experiment that has worked.

"There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal," said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.
http://www.france24.com/en/20110701-portugal-drug-law-show-results-ten-years-experts-say

I have attached a white paper produced by the Cato Institute in 2009 to this post. Please take the time to read it. It explores all of the above in greater detail.

There is no longer a real argument against decriminalisation. It costs less to treat, inform and educate users than it does to prosecute them. Numbers of users decline and the general health of the nation improves. This has been proven in Portugal's case.

Individuals who are against decriminalisation in this country are, in effect, contributing to Ireland's drug problems.

Ignoring the problem wont make it go away.

Irishgoatman

bandit197 wrote: »

The amount of misinformation and non truths that are trotted out again and again whenever this argument comes up never fails to amaze me.

The first step that we need to take as a country is to decriminalize all controlled substances.

Portugal done just that in 2001 and, ten years later, we can now examine the data and establish if it has worked. The results show:

• Addiction levels to hard drugs have declined dramatically
• Portugal's approach has led to a significant drop in drug-related crimes
• Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%....proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.
• New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half.
• Portugal has not become a haven for "drug tourism" as was initially feared by some who opposed the plan.

I have attached a white paper produced by the Cato Institute in 2009 to this post. Please take the time to read it. It explores all of the above in greater detail.

There is no longer a real argument against decriminalisation. It costs less to treat, inform and educate users than it does to prosecute them. Numbers of users decline and the general health of the nation improves. This has been proven in Portugal's case.

Individuals who are against decriminalisation in this country are, in effect, contributing to Ireland's drug problems.

Ignoring the problem wont make it go away.

2 very interesting articles linked here. Well worth reading thanks to bandit197.

I see no problem with decriminalisation, it's just legalisation that I am not too sure or happy about

charlemont

shebafay wrote: »

TO THE OP. MY EXPERIENCE OF THE MEDICAL EFFECTS OF CANNABIS DIFFERS TO YOUR THEORIES. MY BROTHER, RIP, DEVELOPED SCHIZOPHRENIA 10 YEARS AGO FROM USING IT AND SUBSEQUENTLY TOOK HIS OWN LIFE. MY SON HAS JUST RETURNED FROM A 6 MONTH STAY IN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL FOR TREATMENT FOR DRUG INDUCED PSYCHOSIS, SECONDARY TO CANNABIS USE. HE NOW HAS A LOWER THAN AVERAGE IQ AS HE WAS SMOKING IT FROM AGE 15 (AGAINST MY KNOWLEDGE). SO, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE CAMPAIGN TO LEGALISE CANNABIS, AND INDEED IF NEED BE, I WILL BE ORGANISING MY OWN PROTEST TO MAKE SURE IT REMAINS A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE. HOW IN THE NAME OF GOD IT WOULD BENEFIT THE OLDER GENERATION TO LEGALISE CANNABIS BEATS ME.....


*****Please change this post for capitalization, all caps looks like you are shouting, change it or it will be deleted.*****************

And, Im sure if he was on the drink the same would have happened...

paul26

Oldtree wrote: »

The chemical parts of a plant, not the vegetative stuff.

Its not a question of right or wrong, more one of compounding an error. look at where drink has got us. I am not against legalisation for adults but I do require many more studies and open debate before our democratic society should do so.

As mentioned above, starting points would be the equivilent of breathiliser/urine tests for drivers, strictly not for the under 18's, education in all its forms, controlled sources (growing and supply), etc.

Jailing someone for smoking dope is wrong in my opinion, jailing someone for smoking dope and driving is not!

When you keep talking about smoking and driving it doesn't make sense to me. Just because its legalized doesn't mean more people will smoke it. Infact as bandit197 pointed out in Portugal less people smoked it since it was de-criminalized. So when your talking about methods of testing drivers, well we actually need them just as much now, because as the Portugal case proves when decriminalized less people will smoke it. Portugal I think by making it legal it will easier to make laws and testing to stop people driving and make it more of a crime. I think because its illegal people drive around stoned because its not seen as bad as drink driving because most people wont even know your stoned.

paul26

No matter what any body can say against the legalization and all the illness that it can cause, you just need to add up which is going to have a worse effect all the mental illness caused by marijuana which from my point of view from been a smoker and knowing alot of smokers, it is very very rare, or all the toxins and chemicals that gansters contaminate the marijuana to bulk up the weight of the marijuana.
Its not a hard one really, breathing in shards of glass, silica sand, plastic, wall plaster, etc.
90% of marijuana in this country is contaminated, in the years to come a lot of the youth today is going to die from or be seriously ill from this, way more people than which are going to die or be seriously ill from 100% clean marijuana. Research silica sand it causes lung cancer very similar to abspetos, the stuff is lethal when inhaled. And the worst thing is that this is not stopping people smoking it. We would protect people from food contamination or other things alike.

Please people think of the future of our kids, because if we don't legalize it now, the contamination is going to get worse, and marijuana will start killing people.

Mance Rayder

The majority of my peers who began smoking weed in their teens and still smoke are now either completely brain dead idiots (The kind who repeat themselves over and over like an alco does) or paranoid out of their minds, or both.

One thing I learned from these people is, they will never ever say a bad word about weed/hash etc. They will however readily blame everyone else on their shortcomings.

There is a strong connection between Scangers/Scumbaggery and weed/hash use. Try and tell me there is not. I've lived in dodgey areas all my life and it all revolves around weed and hash. Stoners here will laugh at it but weed/Hash has stolen the lives/Slashed the potential of many good and bright young people in this country.

Amsterdam is not a good example, It's a hell hole of a city full of crime, illegal drugs, vagrants, prostitution both legal and illigal, where extreme sexual perversions are celebrated. Walking around Amsterdam you will be offered more coke and E by dealers then would ever happen here. So the argument that legalisation would reduce the presence of harder drugs on the streets is BS.

Government can legalise it and tax the S**T out of it for all I care, but don't expect Ireland to be a nicer place because of it.

bandit197

CiscoStudent wrote: »

The majority of my peers who began smoking weed in their teens and still smoke are now either completely brain dead idiots (The kind who repeat themselves over and over like an alco does) or paranoid out of their minds, or both.

One thing I learned from these people is, they will never ever say a bad word about weed/hash etc. They will however readily blame everyone else on their shortcomings.

There is a strong connection between Scangers/Scumbaggery and weed/hash use. Try and tell me there is not. I've lived in dodgey areas all my life and it all revolves around weed and hash. Stoners here will laugh at it but weed/Hash has stolen the lives/Slashed the potential of many good and bright young people in this country.

Amsterdam is not a good example, It's a hell hole of a city full of crime, illegal drugs, vagrants, prostitution both legal and illigal, where extreme sexual perversions are celebrated. Walking around Amsterdam you will be offered more coke and E by dealers then would ever happen here. So the argument that legalisation would reduce the presence of harder drugs on the streets is BS.

Drugs are not legal in Holland.

What exactly has prostitution and as you put it "extreme sexual perversions" got to do with this argument?

Mance Rayder

paul26 wrote: »

Research silica sand it causes lung cancer very similar to abspetos, the stuff is lethal when inhaled. And the worst thing is that this is not stopping people smoking it. We would protect people from food contamination or other things alike.

It doesnt stop people from smoking it because it is addictive and makes people stupid.
The government protects people from food contamination. Not from the possible perils of illegal substance abuse..

bandit197

CiscoStudent wrote: »

It doesnt stop people from smoking it because it is addictive and makes people stupid.
The government protects people from food contamination. Not from the possible perils of illegal substance abuse..

I suspect that you are a troll because if you have educated yourself in any way on the subject you would know that cannabis is not an addictive substance.

Mance Rayder

bandit197 wrote: »

Drugs are not legal in Holland.

What exactly has prostitution and as you put it "extreme sexual perversions" got to do with this argument?

Firstly, and I understand you may not of noticed in between tokes, but I didn't say drugs were legal.

Amsterdam has been bandied about as a good example by potheads and I was pointing out that its a Sh*tHole that we should not be attempting to emulate.

Mance Rayder

bandit197 wrote: »

I suspect that you are a troll because if you have educated yourself in any way on the subject you would know that cannabis is not an addictive substance.

I smoked weed for 3 years and quit when I copped on. It is mentally addictive and this is well accepted. Take the weed away from some stoners for a week or two and watch them suffer. Nicotine is gone out of a persons system a few days after quitting, yet smokers can suffer for a year or more from cravings caused by the mental addiction.

I am not a troll, just because I am not here singing the praises of weed does not make me a troll.

bandit197

CiscoStudent wrote: »

just because I am not here singing the praises of weed does not make me a troll.

If you had took the time to read my posts in this thread you would realise that I too am not singing the praises of weed either.

Do you support decriminalisation or do you believe we should continue on as we are with our heads in the sand?

yop

I've already warned people on this thread that you are flying very close to the edge.

2 warnings handed out to Bandit and Ciscostudent for personal abuse.

No more warnings now on this thread. Bans will be next.

Regards

paul26

CiscoStudent wrote: »

There is a strong connection between Scangers/Scumbaggery and weed/hash use. Try and tell me there is not.

.

Yes that is the whole point just incase you missed it, were trying to legalize weed/hash, to break the connection between scumbags and weed/hash. Did you read any of the posts, or did u just decide to bust in and shout out your point without hearing the argument.

Very quick to say stoners are complete dopes, when thats just what you think of them, your opinnion. Not everyone wants to be a perfect pillar of society like your self who never stutters, or has to think about what your going to say.

Personally im the kind of person who would rather listen to a person stutter and take there time in what there saying rather than talk about something they didnt even have the time to listen to the conversation.

champski

shebafay wrote: »

TO THE OP. MY EXPERIENCE OF THE MEDICAL EFFECTS OF CANNABIS DIFFERS TO YOUR THEORIES. MY BROTHER, RIP, DEVELOPED SCHIZOPHRENIA 10 YEARS AGO FROM USING IT AND SUBSEQUENTLY TOOK HIS OWN LIFE. MY SON HAS JUST RETURNED FROM A 6 MONTH STAY IN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL FOR TREATMENT FOR DRUG INDUCED PSYCHOSIS, SECONDARY TO CANNABIS USE. HE NOW HAS A LOWER THAN AVERAGE IQ AS HE WAS SMOKING IT FROM AGE 15 (AGAINST MY KNOWLEDGE). SO, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE CAMPAIGN TO LEGALISE CANNABIS, AND INDEED IF NEED BE, I WILL BE ORGANISING MY OWN PROTEST TO MAKE SURE IT REMAINS A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE. HOW IN THE NAME OF GOD IT WOULD BENEFIT THE OLDER GENERATION TO LEGALISE CANNABIS BEATS ME.....


*****Please change this post for capitalization, all caps looks like you are shouting, change it or it will be deleted.*****************

Maybe it's genetic and not cannabis related

champski

I used to enjoy a smoke in my younger days(still do occasionally) and it never did me any harm. I was on a national martial arts squad and held a 4 nations belt in another discipline so it didn't rob me of my ambition or drive. When did ya ever hear of a guy having a smoke and knocking someones teeth out, personally, never. When did ya ever hear of a guy having a fist of drink and knocking someones teeth out, answer, every weekend in every town in the country

PogMoThoin

Terrible modding tbh, I see no offensive posts from either party, WTF? Its a discussion FFS, there are lots of valid points and lots of opinions, nothing worth warning over.

mikom

CiscoStudent wrote: »

The majority of my peers who began smoking weed in their teens and still smoke are now either completely brain dead idiots (The kind who repeat themselves over and over like an alco does) or paranoid out of their minds, or both.

One thing I learned from these people is, they will never ever say a bad word about weed/hash etc. They will however readily blame everyone else on their shortcomings.

Correlation does not imply causation.
"The more firemen fighting a fire, the bigger the fire is observed to be.
Therefore firemen cause fire."
Look it up.

Your friends may have been fuck ups from year dot and simply used cannabis as a coping tool............ if not cannabis then alcohol............ if not alcohol then liquorice allsorts.
Yourself proclaimed "dodgy area" may cause people to cope with it in different ways.

CiscoStudent wrote: »

There is a strong connection between Scangers/Scumbaggery and weed/hash use.

See prohibition in the USA during the 20's and 30's.
I'm sure old Ma clampet was heard to utter "There is a strong connection between Scangers/Scumbaggery and bootleg liquor use.

CiscoStudent wrote: »

Amsterdam is not a good example,

Try Portugal........ it's been mentioned and backed up by stats a few times in this thread already.
Any problem with that set up?

CiscoStudent wrote: »

Government can legalise it and tax the S**T out of it for all I care, but don't expect Ireland to be a nicer place because of it.

Will it make you any angrier?

CiscoStudent wrote: »

I smoked weed for 3 years and quit when I copped on. It is mentally addictive and this is well accepted. Take the weed away from some stoners for a week or two and watch them suffer. Nicotine is gone out of a persons system a few days after quitting, yet smokers can suffer for a year or more from cravings caused by the mental addiction.

See Highlighted word.
Can't say I ever suffered like you.
You still suffering?

yop

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Terrible modding tbh, I see no offensive posts from either party, WTF? Its a discussion FFS, there are lots of valid points and lots of opinions, nothing worth warning over.

Back seat modding also incurs a ban..... also is using offensive language.

Leave the modding to the mods, you obviously don't understand the rules. :cool:

Oh_Noes

mikom wrote: »

See Highlighted word.
Can't say I ever suffered like you.
You still suffering?

I've been around a lot of people who've stopped too and never seen anything like this. I've seen people quit smoking cigarettes and it had a noticable effect on them, the two aren't comparable at all. I've quit smoking cigarettes and it was tough going with lots of side effects, yet I take several months breaks from weed and have never had anything noticable.

The most suffering I've had or seen was the same as the suffering I feel because I'm not a millionaire or because I'm not a rockstar. "Lamenting" might be better term than "suffering" in this instance.