Legalize Cannabis Ireland

LCIMayo

Greetings all,

I would like to announce to anyone who may be interested that Legalize Cannabis Ireland is now starting a Mayo group. With the massive success of this years Cork Legalize march there has never been more momentum or more interest in the group and to help build on that our group has started expanding to new counties.

If you are already interested in the cause of legalizing cannabis then you are probably aware of all the ridiculous and unjust reasons that this wonderful plant is prohibited, however if you are interested in the cause but don't know much about it just send me (LCI Mayo) a message on Facebook and I will be happy to send you on information and answer any questions you may have.

I am from Mayo originally myself but am currently located in Cork and have been working with Cork legalize group for over year now. My goal is to set up a group meeting with anyone who is interested and would be willing to dedicate a little bit of their time to a great cause.

If you are interested in taking part but would rather remain anonymous just private message me here or on Facebook.

Heres a video of T.D Luke 'Ming' Flanagan's speech from the Cork March. If this doesn't motivate you then I look forward to hearing from you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhv3fCq-LVw

Mayo Miss

No thanks. Not interested.

tayto lover

How is it a great cause ?

HarryPotter41

A great cause is helping people in need, the elderly, the youngm the poor. How the hell legalizing people getting wasted is a great cause is a complete mystery to me

LCIMayo

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

A great cause is helping people in need, the elderly, the youngm the poor. How the hell legalizing people getting wasted is a great cause is a complete mystery to me

Well let me be your Sherlock Holmes and unravel this mystery. Legalizing cannabis would be a massive economical boost for the country's tourism industry, has many proven medical benefits and its also a drug that cannot kill you.

Those things you mentioned like helping poor and elderly people are indeed great causes and I have the greatest respect for people who follow those causes, but I do believe that legalizing cannabis so long if it is done correctly would be of great benefit to this country.

Also in regards to the recreational use of cannabis. If you are genuinely that concerned for your health then put down that cigarette, cup of coffee and beer because alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are far more dangerous than cannabis and cause thousands deaths each year where cannabis causes none.

Thanks for your response

oscarBravo

I don't have an issue with legalising cannabis, as long as I have the right as an employer to choose not to employ (or to fire) habitual users. I would also want to see MATs extended to include testing for blood cannabis levels.

If people want to be stoners, whatever; as long as they're kept out of my workplace and off the roads.

Treora

Sure the liquid lunch is gone years now and your office doesn't test everyone's urine at 2pm. Or does it?

LCIMayo

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't have an issue with legalising cannabis, as long as I have the right as an employer to choose not to employ (or to fire) habitual users. I would also want to see MATs extended to include testing for blood cannabis levels.

If people want to be stoners, whatever; as long as they're kept out of my workplace and off the roads.

I would agree with you completely in terms of testing drivers, driving under the influence of any drug prescription or not is dangerous. I do however disagree with your statement about having the option to fire someone on the basis that they smoke cannabis. Cannabis smokers are already in the work place and do just as good a job as non smokers.

The responsibility lies with the individual and a cannabis smoker that shows up to work everyday on time should not be fired for it. Thats the same as say firing someone who supports a different football team i.e it is based completely on personal prejudice. The bottom line is and I am talking about a scenario where cannabis has been legalised, if it does not affect their work why should employers have the right to fire them.

Thanks for your response.

ArtSmart

oscarBravo wrote: »

If people want to be stoners, whatever; as long as they're kept out of my workplace and off the roads.

em, I believe the PC term is the 'disengaged'.

oscarBravo

Treora wrote: »

Sure the liquid lunch is gone years now and your office doesn't test everyone's urine at 2pm. Or does it?

I have the legal right to dismiss someone summarily if they show up drunk for work. I don't see why I shouldn't have the right to dismiss someone for showing up stoned (or disengaged).

LCIMayo wrote: »

I would agree with you completely in terms of testing drivers, driving under the influence of any drug prescription or not is dangerous. I do however disagree with your statement about having the option to fire someone on the basis that they smoke cannabis. Cannabis smokers are already in the work place and do just as good a job as non smokers.

Cannabis impairs judgement in much the same way as alcohol does. I expect people to show up at work with a BAC low enough to allow them to legally drive; if cannabis were legal I would expect the same.

The responsibility lies with the individual...

I'll come back to this.

...and a cannabis smoker that shows up to work everyday on time should not be fired for it.

Clearly you're not an employer. I set a much higher standard from my employees than merely showing up on time. I expect them to show up on time, compos mentis and capable of making rational judgements.

Thats the same as say firing someone who supports a different football team i.e it is based completely on personal prejudice. The bottom line is and I am talking about a scenario where cannabis has been legalised, if it does not affect their work why should employers have the right to fire them.

If it doesn't affect their work, it's not a problem. The question is, how do we define "affect"? Managing to be physically present isn't a particularly useful metric.

Going back to the personal responsibility point: you are demanding a new freedom; one which is not currently afforded in law. This freedom could have a side effect of allowing people to engage in a legal behaviour that affects their ability to do their job competently and safely. As an employer, I'm prepared to accept your new-found freedom to use drugs, in exchange for the freedom to insist that you only ever show up at work free of the effects of those drugs.

How do we measure those effects? I don't know. But if you want support for the campaign to legalise drugs, you're going to have to help come up with answers to questions like that.

HarryPotter41

LCIMayo wrote: »

Well let me be your Sherlock Holmes and unravel this mystery. Legalizing cannabis would be a massive economical boost for the country's tourism industry, has many proven medical benefits and its also a drug that cannot kill you.

Those things you mentioned like helping poor and elderly people are indeed great causes and I have the greatest respect for people who follow those causes, but I do believe that legalizing cannabis so long if it is done correctly would be of great benefit to this country.

Also in regards to the recreational use of cannabis. If you are genuinely that concerned for your health then put down that cigarette, cup of coffee and beer because alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are far more dangerous than cannabis and cause thousands deaths each year where cannabis causes none.

Thanks for your response

Yes, a boost in the tourist industry due to leaglizing cannibas, excellent, just what the country needs. More people off their trollies. And as I don't smoke I won't bother putting down my cigarette and please give me the links to research showing the huge amount of deaths attributed to caffeine each year.I also agree with OscarBravo on the issues relating to the work place. Any employer ( and indeed fellow employee ) has to expect people to turn up capabale of doing the work that they are paid to do, and if cannibas is legal whats to stop them having a sneaky spliff at lunchtime. Would you argue then that they are capable of doing their work fully after that?

IrishKnight

LCIMayo wrote: »

has many proven medical benefits

Just today I was watching a doc about weed and it got me thinking, seeing as you would be a person in the know, could you please provide me with a list of said proven medical benefits with reference to the relative scientific journals?

Also can you comment on the findings of Moore et al 2007 regrading "...that cannabis increases risk of psychotic outcomes..."?

Further, can you explain the reasoning behind the planned Netherland legalisation preventing tourists from buying weed in coffee shops.

jenno86

Haha, ya right.

alex73

WHAT A WASTE OF INTERNET SPACE!". Legalize Cannabis my arse!!. When I lived in Amsterdam is was the blight of the City and 80% of dutch hated the cafes there. It was a magnet of wasters.

Whoever stated this threat must have nothing else to do with their time. Get a life, get a Job.


(unless you are dying of cancer... then smoke as much as you like you have my full sympathy.)

IrishKnight

Wow, hold on guys, while I do not wholly agree the OP at least not until they provide me with the information I requested, I don't think there is any need to attack them. I also think it would be prudent that rather than simple negative comments about not wanting it, it might be an idea to explain why you are against it and allow the OP to respond in kind.

yop

Keep this thread on topic please and do not attack the poster.
Alex73, you are on the verge, please refrain from any attacks of the post.

alex73

yop wrote: »

Keep this thread on topic please and do not attack the poster.
Alex73, you are on the verge, please refrain from any attacks of the post.

Unbelievable... So I am supposed to respect a group promoting an illegal activity?. Even in Amsterdam where it's legal u now have to register as Dutch user. So if the Dutch which is the only country to legalise cannabis are rolling back why the hell would ireland want to legalise drugs.... For Gods sake I have seen too many lives wasted with alcohol, let's not add more drugs. I have been on the front line of drugs!! I know the ugly picture, I have seen the ruin drugs have caused families. Don't worry when the group meets I will be there.

James2693

alex73 wrote: »

Unbelievable... So I am supposed to respect a group promoting an illegal activity?. Even in Amsterdam where it's legal u now have to register as Dutch user. So if the Dutch which is the only country to legalise cannabis are rolling back why the hell would ireland want to legalise drugs.... For Gods sake I have seen too many lives wasted with alcohol, let's not add more drugs. I have been on the front line of drugs!! I know the ugly picture, I have seen the ruin drugs have caused families. Don't worry when the group meets I will be there.

How ignorant can you get? Blinded by the media and fail to see the obvious benefits that can be had to our country from the legalization Between tax revenue and tourism.
The older generation is te crux of the problem, they are the bulwark to the legalization. They fail to see the advantagtes of it. Stuck in the past.

I have never smoked cannabis in my life. Butthe benefits are so clear its impossible to ignore them.

You say you have seen lifes ruined by drugs? Fair enough, something I believe your are correct in. But the drugs that have ruined lives are class A hardcore drugs heroin/cocaine.
Cannibas On the other hand is relatively harmless when used in moderation, on the Same scale as alcohol.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

Unbelievable... So I am supposed to respect a group promoting an illegal activity?. Even in Amsterdam where it's legal u now have to register as Dutch user. So if the Dutch which is the only country to legalise cannabis are rolling back why the hell would ireland want to legalise drugs.... For Gods sake I have seen too many lives wasted with alcohol, let's not add more drugs. I have been on the front line of drugs!! I know the ugly picture, I have seen the ruin drugs have caused families. Don't worry when the group meets I will be there.

So many inaccuracies in this post I don't know where to start.

alex73 wrote: »

Even in Amsterdam where it's legal u now have to register as Dutch user.

Not yet, and possibly not at all as legislation has a way to go yet before it is passed.

alex73 wrote: »

Even in Amsterdam where it's legal

Not legal, decriminalised.
I thought you lived in Amsterdam for a while, so surely you should know that.

Legal - "conforming to or permitted by law or established rules"Illegal - "not according to or authorized by law"Decriminalize - "to remove or reduce the criminal classification or status of; especially : to repeal a strict ban on while keeping under some form of regulation"

alex73 wrote: »

So if the Dutch which is the only country to legalise cannabis are rolling back why the hell would ireland want to legalise drugs

Bearing in mind the legal/decriminalised difference, I have to ask.... Just the Dutch?


Portugal......Decriminalized

Spain...... growing and consumption at home legal

Argentina........ Possession legal in quantities for personal use

Germany...... Possession legal in quantities for personal use

Ecuador...... Possession legal in quantities for personal use

Belgium..... Consumption at home legal

Canada..... Decriminalized for medical use

Finland.... Decriminalized for medical use

Israel...... Decriminalized for medical use

I'd spend less time spitting anger and more time educating myself if I was you.

HarryPotter41

James2693 wrote: »

How ignorant can you get? Blinded by the media and fail to see the obvious benefits that can be had to our country from the legalization Between tax revenue and tourism.
The older generation is te crux of the problem, they are the bulwark to the legalization. They fail to see the advantagtes of it. Stuck in the past.

I have never smoked cannabis in my life. Butthe benefits are so clear its impossible to ignore them.

You say you have seen lifes ruined by drugs? Fair enough, something I believe your are correct in. But the drugs that have ruined lives are class A hardcore drugs heroin/cocaine.
Cannibas On the other hand is relatively harmless when used in moderation, on the Same scale as alcohol.

There would be absolutely no benefit in tourism terms, what a fallacy. Also maybe ask the hard drug user what drug was the first they ever took?

PogMoThoin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Also maybe ask the hard drug user what drug was the first they ever took?

Cigarettes and alcohol, No?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone growing a plant in their garden to smoke (vapuorize/cook/bake because not everyone smokes) in the comfort of their own home.

James2693

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

There would be absolutely no benefit in tourism terms, what a fallacy. Also maybe ask the hard drug user what drug was the first they ever took?

How would there be no benefit from tourism. Massive money can be made from people visiting Ireland. People will visit ireland, due to the fact Cannibas would be legal here. They would spend money on food/drink/accomodatin etc. They pay VAT=benefit to Ireland.

What was the first drug they used? Just as the previous poster said. Alcohol and cigarettes.

PogMoThoin

James2693 wrote: »

How would there be no benefit from tourism. Massive money can be made from people visiting Ireland. People will visit ireland, due to the fact Cannibas would be legal here. They would spend money on food/drink/accomodatin etc. They pay VAT=benefit to Ireland.

Course the airports are full of stoners heading to Portugal since they decriminalised. Its foolish to think it'll do anything for tourism.

mikom

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Also maybe ask the hard drug user what drug was the first they ever took?

I could go even further and say Caffeine..... you know that psychoactive stimulant in coffee, tea, red bull, and a host of energy drinks (the ones that may be supped at a sporting event).
I could push your gateway fallacy out even further by saying that most children alter their brains even in the playground.
Ever spun around until you got dizzy?
I have.

James2693

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Course the airports are full of stoners heading to Portugal since they decriminalised. Its foolish to think it'll do anything for tourism.

We are talking about legalizing it though not decrminalisibg it.

Btw I live how you have just avoided the other point mikom and I are making about alcohol/cigarettes are just as bad. Nice

HarryPotter41

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Cigarettes and alcohol, No?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone growing a plant in their garden to smoke (vapuorize/cook/bake because not everyone smokes) in the comfort of their own home.

There are people who see absolutely no harm in killing someone who p***ses them off, that type of argument can be used for anything.

HarryPotter41

mikom wrote: »

I could go even further and say Caffeine..... you know that psychoactive stimulant in coffee, tea, red bull, and a host of energy drinks (the ones that may be supped at a sporting event).
I could push your gateway fallacy out even further by saying that most children alter their brains even in the playground.
Ever spun around until you got dizzy?
I have.

I am still waiting for the links to the studies saying using caffeine has serious detrimental effects? Any chance of someone putting them up and proving what they say? And can you seriously compare the effects of motion on the vestibular system with smoking weed on a regular basis?

mikom

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

There are people who see absolutely no harm in killing someone who p***ses them off, that type of argument can be used for anything.

Remember what a balls up alcohol prohibition in the USA was.
How many people did Al Capone have murdered to facilitate the selling of blackmarket booze.

Alcohol was legalised and the murders from alcohol smuggling and illegal sale dried up.
Is this becoming any clearer....... the whole prohibition problem.

Repeating the mistakes of history is madness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_VVGafuMwk

Originally Posted by HarryPotter41 View Post
Also maybe ask the hard drug user what drug was the first they ever took?

You got your answer, Caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol.
Now you come looking for reports?

Regular caffeine consumption reduces sensitivity to caffeine. When caffeine intake is reduced, the body becomes oversensitive to adenosine. In response to this oversensitiveness, blood pressure drops dramatically, causing an excess of blood in the head (though not necessarily on the brain), leading to a headache.

This headache, well known among coffee drinkers, usually lasts from one to five days, and can be alleviated with analgesics such as aspirin. It is also alleviated with caffeine intake (in fact several analgesics contain caffeine dosages).

Often, people who are reducing caffeine intake report being irritable, unable to work, nervous, restless, and feeling sleepy, as well as having a headache. In extreme cases, nausea and vomiting has also been reported.

References.

Caffeine and Health. J. E. James, Academic Press, 1991. Progress in Clinical and Biological Research Volume 158. G. A. Spiller, Ed. Alan R. Liss Inc, 1984.

You can ask a few boardsies about it here........ Caffeine withdrawal headache?

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

And can you seriously compare the effects of motion on the vestibular system with smoking weed on a regular basis?

You asked about about first drugs taken...... I extended it to ways people and children alter their consciousness.
I dare say there are a sight more injuries from spinning around induced dizziness than smoking weed.
Aged 6 or 7 my sister walked into the corner of a table and received a nasty nick on her cheek after one such spin around session.

HarryPotter41

mikom wrote: »

Remember what a balls up alcohol prohibition in the USA was.
How many people did Al Capone have murdered to facilitate the selling of blackmarket booze.

Alcohol was legalised and the murders from alcohol smuggling and illegal sale dried up.
Is this becoming any clearer....... the whole prohibition problem.

Repeating the mistakes of history is madness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_VVGafuMwk

Originally Posted by HarryPotter41 View Post
Also maybe ask the hard drug user what drug was the first they ever took?

You got your answer, Caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol.
Now you come looking for reports?



You can ask a few boardsies about it here........ Caffeine withdrawal headache?

Strangely have never suffered from it. And it causes a headache and a certain amount of irritibality. As opposed to distorted perception, anxiety, loss of coordination, increased heart rate, reduced blood pressure and worse effects from heavy usage. Will take my chance with my cup of kenco any day.

mikom

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Will take my chance with my cup of kenco any day.

Your choice..... and isn't it great to have that choice.
Many are not so lucky, and so must keep what they enjoy under wraps for fear of the repercussions.
Do you prefer to see people oppressed?
I notice you sidestepped the prohibition issue.

By the way.......

Coffee containing caffeine can cause insomnia, nervousness and restlessness, stomach upset, nausea and vomiting, increased heart and breathing rate, and other side effects. Consuming large amounts of coffee might also cause headache, anxiety, agitation, ringing in the ears, and irregular heartbeats.

Children: It may be unsafe for children to drink caffeinated coffee. The side effects associated with caffeine are usually more severe in children than adults.

Anxiety disorders: The caffeine in coffee might make anxiety worse.

Bleeding disorders: There is some concern that coffee might make bleeding disorders worse.

Heart disease: Drinking unfiltered (boiled) coffee increases the amount of cholesterol and other fats in the blood, and also raises the level of homocysteine, all of which are associated with an increased risk of developing heart disease. Some research suggests an association between heart attacks and drinking coffee.

Diabetes: Some research suggests that caffeine contained in coffee might change the way people with diabetes process sugar. Caffeine has been reported to cause increases as well as decreases in blood sugar. Use caffeine with caution if you have diabetes and monitor your blood sugar carefully.

Glaucoma: Drinking caffeinated coffee increases pressure inside the eye. The increase starts within 30 minutes and lasts for at least 90 minutes.

High blood pressure: Drinking caffeinated coffee might increase blood pressure in people with high blood pressure. However, this effect might be less in people who drink coffee regularly.

Thinning bones (osteoporosis): Drinking caffeinated coffee can increase the amount of calcium that is flushed out in the urine. This might weaken bones. If you have osteoporosis, limit caffeine consumption to less than 300 mg per day (approximately 2-3 cups of coffee). Taking calcium supplements may help to make up for calcium that is lost. Postmenopausal women who have an inherited condition that keeps them from processing vitamin D normally, should be especially cautious when using caffeine.


Scare stories!!
Boo!

the_syco

oscarBravo wrote: »

I have the legal right to dismiss someone summarily if they show up drunk for work. I don't see why I shouldn't have the right to dismiss someone for showing up stoned (or disengaged).

I support the use of being allowed to smoke weed, but I also support this point of view, as I don't like working with people under the influence of alcohol, nor anyone being stoned whilst driving.

There is one problem, however: if X was in the vicinity of Y smoking weed (for example; in a pub), X would test positive for about four weeks after having inhaled the 2nd hand fumes.

If we do legalize it, we need some sort of test to see if the person was under the influence at the time of the test.

HarryPotter41

mikom wrote: »

Your choice..... and isn't it great to have that choice.
Many are not so lucky, and so must keep what they enjoy under wraps for fear of the repercussions.
Do you prefer to see people oppressed?
I notice you sidestepped the prohibition issue.

By the way.......

Coffee containing caffeine can cause insomnia, nervousness and restlessness, stomach upset, nausea and vomiting, increased heart and breathing rate, and other side effects. Consuming large amounts of coffee might also cause headache, anxiety, agitation, ringing in the ears, and irregular heartbeats.

Children: It may be unsafe for children to drink caffeinated coffee. The side effects associated with caffeine are usually more severe in children than adults.

Anxiety disorders: The caffeine in coffee might make anxiety worse.

Bleeding disorders: There is some concern that coffee might make bleeding disorders worse.

Heart disease: Drinking unfiltered (boiled) coffee increases the amount of cholesterol and other fats in the blood, and also raises the level of homocysteine, all of which are associated with an increased risk of developing heart disease. Some research suggests an association between heart attacks and drinking coffee.

Diabetes: Some research suggests that caffeine contained in coffee might change the way people with diabetes process sugar. Caffeine has been reported to cause increases as well as decreases in blood sugar. Use caffeine with caution if you have diabetes and monitor your blood sugar carefully.

Glaucoma: Drinking caffeinated coffee increases pressure inside the eye. The increase starts within 30 minutes and lasts for at least 90 minutes.

High blood pressure: Drinking caffeinated coffee might increase blood pressure in people with high blood pressure. However, this effect might be less in people who drink coffee regularly.

Thinning bones (osteoporosis): Drinking caffeinated coffee can increase the amount of calcium that is flushed out in the urine. This might weaken bones. If you have osteoporosis, limit caffeine consumption to less than 300 mg per day (approximately 2-3 cups of coffee). Taking calcium supplements may help to make up for calcium that is lost. Postmenopausal women who have an inherited condition that keeps them from processing vitamin D normally, should be especially cautious when using caffeine.


Scare stories!!
Boo!

Children: Having stoned stoned parents has been shown to be detrimental to the health and wellbeing of the child as there is no one to look after them properly. Its definitely unsafe for children to smoke cannibas.Anxiety : If you don't suffer from anxiety you are more likely to suffer from it after a few spliffs.Bleeding : gimme a break, there is concern?? I find cutting myself makes bleeding disorders worse.Diabetes : as diabetics tend to have strictly controlled diets I am sure this kind of problem won't be a huge issue.Glaucoma : Old age also causes an upturn in the likelihood of glaucoma. Shoot people once they reach a certain age to prevent its occurence?Thinning bones: also increase with age, perhaps same solution as glaucoma?Prohibition, not sidestepped, just a spurios argument as this was the banning of something that had been legal. You are quite right about not making the same mistakes as made in the past. Alcohol should never have been legalised, so lets not make the same mistake again.

mikom

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Children: Having stoned stoned parents has been shown to be detrimental to the health and wellbeing of the child as there is no one to look after them properly.

I agree.
Bad people are bad.

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Its definitely unsafe for children to smoke cannibas.

I agree.

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Anxiety : If you don't suffer from anxiety you are more likely to suffer from it after a few spliffs.

Not wholly true.
Many never suffer anxiety.
Many will especially if they over indulge, especially if they are new to the substance.
Many people get rowdy after a pint or two.
Some things don't suit some people.
If it doesn't suit you then stay away...... otherwise you are a fool.

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Bleeding : gimme a break, there is concern?? I find cutting myself makes bleeding disorders worse.Diabetes : as diabetics tend to have strictly controlled diets I am sure this kind of problem won't be a huge issue.Glaucoma : Old age also causes an upturn in the likelihood of glaucoma. Shoot people once they reach a certain age to prevent its occurence?Thinning bones: also increase with age, perhaps same solution as glaucoma?

As I said...... Scare stories!! Boo!
Is the message sinking in yet?

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Prohibition, not sidestepped, just a spurios argument as this was the banning of something that had been legal.

So there was never a time that cannabis was legal.
This is what you are saying....... seriously.
You do know cannabis grows naturally and alcohol must be manufactured (although it can naturally occur as part of decomposition of fruits etc.)

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

You are quite right about not making the same mistakes as made in the past. Alcohol should never have been legalised, so lets not make the same mistake again.

I like a few weiss beers.
Would you deny me and others that joy by criminalising alcohol because some can't handle it or you have had bad experiences with it?
Will my father a hard working farmer be denied 2 pints once or twice a week?
Will there still be altar wine or porter cake in your new utopia?

IsThisIt???

oscarBravo wrote: »

I have the legal right to dismiss someone summarily if they show up drunk for work. I don't see why I shouldn't have the right to dismiss someone for showing up stoned (or disengaged).

True if they show up for work drunk or stoned you do have the right to take diciplinary action but if you are suggesting taking blood tests, or something to that effect, that would test if they had smoked cannabis at all then I would disagree. If they came home from work Friday evening and spent the weekend, in there home, smoking to their hearts content and then showed up for work Monday morning fresh as a daisy would you have a problem that they had smoked. Why should you then have the right to take diciplinary action if it hadn't affected their work?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

alex73 wrote: »

WHAT A WASTE OF INTERNET SPACE!". Legalize Cannabis my arse!!. When I lived in Amsterdam is was the blight of the City and 80% of dutch hated the cafes there. It was a magnet of wasters.

Whoever stated this threat must have nothing else to do with their time. Get a life, get a Job.


(unless you are dying of cancer... then smoke as much as you like you have my full sympathy.)

Bit much? Anyway you know what would happen if cannabis was legalized all over the world? Nobody would have to crowd to Amsterdam to consume it. Imagine for a second that alcohol was illegal everywhere but Ireland. Well then of course we'd have people flooding in here to consume it but thats the fault of prohibition.

Anyway fair play to ya OP, I certainly think its a worthy cause.

mikom

I'll just leave this here....

ANNUAL AMERICAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DRUGS

TOBACCO ******* 400,000
ALCOHOL ******* 100,000
ALL LEGAL DRUGS ………….20,000
ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS ……….15,000
CAFFEINE ********2,000
ASPIRIN *********500
MARIJUANA ******* 0

Source: United States government
National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Bureau of Mortality Statistics

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
- Albert Einstein

IrishKnight

mikom wrote: »

I'll just leave this here....

How about the findings of Moore et al 2007 regrading "...that cannabis increases risk of psychotic outcomes..."?

mikom

IrishKnight wrote: »

How about the findings of Moore et al 2007 regrading "...that cannabis increases risk of psychotic outcomes..."?

You mean this........

The uncertainty about whether cannabis causes psychosis is unlikely to be resolved by further longitudinal studies such as those reviewed here.

However, we conclude that there is now sufficient evidence to warn young people that using cannabis could increase their risk of developing a psychotic illness later in life

Youth should be kept away from it.
I agree.
I wouldn't give tobacco or alcohol to youths either.
That is why they are regulated drugs.
Dealers do not ask for the garda age card.
In effect prohibition allows youths greater access to cannabis than if it were legalised and regulated.

PogMoThoin

Not everybody who takes cannabis is a layabout stoner, some live perfectly normal lives. There are many respectable people from all professions, doctors, dentists, solicitors, electricians, plumbers, engineers, Gardai and even politicians who take cannabis in the comfort of their own home and still perform skilled tasks day by day without any effects on their work.

alex73

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

There would be absolutely no benefit in tourism terms, what a fallacy. Also maybe ask the hard drug user what drug was the first they ever took?

100% spot on.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

100% spot on.

Alex, good to see you back.

alex73

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Not everybody who takes cannabis is a layabout stoner, some live perfectly normal lives. There are many respectable people from all professions, doctors, dentists, solicitors, electricians, plumbers, engineers, Gardai and even politicians who take cannabis in the comfort of their own home and still perform skilled tasks day by day without any effects on their work.

who? What percentage. Having worked with drug users biggest problem was depression, anxiety. It ruins lives of some who use it with other drugs. I have yet to meet a person who only smokes cannabis and takes no other drugs. Anyway it's not going to be legalise in ireland, there is not the political will. There are bigger fish to tackle instead of legalising drugs.

70 percent of adolescent smokers wished they had never started smoking in the first place. Most of them started while they were teenagers. Making cannabis legal would only make it easier for a new generation to become addicted. Why would we promote a society addicted to drugs?

Lukker-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13624303

But sure, what would they know, they are only the experts like.

Lukker-

alex73 wrote: »

who? What percentage. Having worked with drug users biggest problem was depression, anxiety. It ruins lives of some who use it with other drugs. I have yet to meet a person who only smokes cannabis and takes no other drugs. Anyway it's not going to be legalise in ireland, there is not the political will. There are bigger fish to tackle instead of legalising drugs.

70 percent of adolescent smokers wished they had never started smoking in the first place. Most of them started while they were teenagers. Making cannabis legal would only make it easier for a new generation to become addicted. Why would we promote a society addicted to drugs?

Legality /= level of users

Less people in Holland use cannabis than Ireland per capita.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

I have yet to meet a person who only smokes cannabis and takes no other drugs.

Most drink as well.

alex73 wrote: »

70 percent of adolescent smokers wished they had never started smoking in the first place.

That's tobacco....... you know, the physically addictive one.
But don't let that stop you muddying the waters.
It's generally good manners to link such claims as well so that people can see if you claim checks out.
In this case it was tobacco........ so it doesn't.

70 percent--The percent of smokers age 12 to 17 who wish they had never started smoking. (Statistics From the American Lung Association)

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13762-quitting-smoking/#ixzz1OEg8BHUd

You're not doing yourself any favors here.

Cocaine

I'm not from Mayo myself, however,
I don't think legalising more drugs is the answer.
It's bad enough with the alcohol now.
If anyone wants this stuff they can still get it anyway so what's the big idea?
Where would it stop, heroin?
Kids would be buying heroin with their mates for the "craic" and become instant junkies and die. Also even if it was strict with over 18s, other junkies would buy it for the kids for a few quid.
Look at the Dutch, not allowing foreigners to buy weed anymore.
Rightly so, the Brits go over and act like idiots when they get their hands on it. They're not ready for it, whereas the Dutch have a lot about them and are able to control their habit.
Ireland would be worse again, look at how many complete drunks you see in the rural pubs, gob****es who spend every last penny on a pint.
Where do they get there money, that's right the government, who tax us for it.
If people really want to legalise drugs they are probably only part time drug users anyway who just want easier access to them.
People don't like having to score a few grams of gear through the well known dealers in their area.
It's not going to happen anyway no matter what, you know that deep down. This is Ireland, you can't have an abortion in this country. Never mind buy some legal weed. It's a waste of time pushing for this for at least the next 20 years, in this country. You need another few European countries to push the boat out first and prove to this little paddy land that it can work, and be controlled. But even at that, the Irish tend to get hooked on such vices. They have no self control. Look at the amount of smokers who don't want to be smokers.
I could go on and on about how there is just no way in hell that it would ever either happen or work, so just forget about it and get it out of you head now.
If you want to get high, it's not hard. Sure LMF grows his own, you can do that. It's easy, I've often seen people growing plants easily in their own homes.
Only an idiot in my opinion could think that there is a chance of getting it legalised in this country, dream on. And I'm not saying don't fight for what you want either. But in this case it's like try to save the titanic. Do you see what I mean, you can't save something which is already doomed, a la - The Titanic. It's under the sea, sleeping with the fishes - literally. You see my point. You cannot save something from sinking when its already at the bottom of the ocean.
That's the case with your gear, it's already been flushed.
Just my 2cent.

mikom

Cocaine wrote: »

If anyone wants this stuff they can still get it anyway so what's the big idea?
If you want to get high, it's not hard. Sure LMF grows his own, you can do that.

What's hard are the fines, prison sentences, and refusal of entry to other countries once you have a criminal record.

alex73

mikom wrote: »

What's hard are the fines, prison sentences, and refusal of entry to other countries once you have a criminal record.

So don't get a record. Obey the law of the land. I don't get this obsession people have with Drugs. But then again addiction has the tendency to cloud reason.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

There are people who see absolutely no harm in killing someone who p***ses them off, that type of argument can be used for anything.

That is without doubt both the greatest non sequitur and the greatest strawman argument I have ever seen on boards. Not only did you avoid giving a proper answer, but you compared wanting to grow some cannabis to wanting to murder someone.

Lukker-

alex73 wrote: »

So don't get a record. Obey the law of the land. I don't get this obsession people have with Drugs. But then again addiction has the tendency to cloud reason.

Sure weren't the prison guards at Auschwitz just following orders?

Just because the Government says so clearly doesn't mean its right.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

So don't get a record. Obey the law of the land.

Do you follow every law blindly, never questioning.
Should the homosexual members of this fair land have refrained from sexual intercourse whilst it was illegal here.
Was that a just law?
Condoms were illegal.
Was that a just law?
The law of the land said suicide was illegal up until a short while ago.
Was that a just law?
Should the Irish have refrained from attending hedge schools when the British said not to teach Irish?
Was that a right thing to do?

This is more about a persons right over what they do with their body than just simply saying it is about drugs.

alex73 wrote: »

But then again addiction has the tendency to cloud reason.

So has closed-mindedness.