Legalize Cannabis Ireland

peternel

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Richard Branson is a big campaigner to end the war on drugs, those against should have a read:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-branson/to-win-the-drug-war-follow-the-states_b_1852870.html

this is what I meant was very good, thank you.

Mister_Jeff

Harry, but at least án Garda Síochana could use the extra manpower, money, and focus to crack down on the heavier drugs!
I have YET to hear of families being broken up by cannabis - alcohol yes, cocaine/heroin/crack use yes!
Having said as much, the FACT remains that tobacco and alcohol are still the biggest killers on the planet. Reports that cannabis use causes psychosis is a fallacy - if the incidents of these episodes in teens had been PROPERLY investigated, it would have been found that Little Johnny and his mates were drinking alcohol at the same time.
Have you heard on buses on a Friday afternoon, how youngsters are planning to get blotto, or on Monday bragging of how drunk they were? It's almost a "badge of honour!"

TURRICAN

Hey all.
I hate to put a downer on the subject but I don't think it will happen Ireland.
You could have all the facts and marches under the sun but the leaders of this country won't even look at, or listen to.

Also I think the idea of saying its not as bad as alcohol etc is the wrong.
It's like saying well this drug is better because......so lets legalise it.

Maybe in 20 yrs time I'd say we may have legal cannabis.
Even saying the word has some sort of taboo attached to it.
Maybe a new name and a fresh clean slate will do it

TURRICAN

Post 1000

Triangular

TURRICAN wrote: »

I don't think it will happen Ireland.

.
.
.

Maybe in 20 yrs time I'd say we may have legal cannabis.

you high

TURRICAN

Triangular wrote: »

you high

Nowhere near it !

MJ23

The Stoners Association of Ireland

Snake Pliisken

There's definitely some weight in a legalisation strategy centered around clamouring anonymously on the internet posting cannabis and prohibition facts, people either become informed or they get so annoyed at the constant badgering that they guarantee their vote to shut up the 'stoners', or they nanny up and show how invested they are in misery culture. Either way, we're definitely making progress!

So on behalf of the internet, I'd like to say 'Thank you, internet, for making this possible!'.

http://marijuanamajority.com/ - New, interesting site.

ArseLtd

TURRICAN wrote: »

Hey all.
I hate to put a downer on the subject but I don't think it will happen Ireland.

That's a very silly narrow minded comment. I'm sure silly comments like that were made before women got to vote or before slavery was abolished in America or before Ireland got independence.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/oct/15/decriminalise-drug-use-say-experts

TURRICAN wrote: »

Also I think the idea of saying its not as bad as alcohol etc is the wrong.
It's like saying well this drug is better because......so lets legalise it.

"Annual deaths related to firearms in the United States: 29,000. Annual deaths related to prescription drugs: 32,000. Annual deaths related to alcohol: 85,000. Related to tobacco: 435,000. Marijuana? 0. Not a single case of death ever recorded in the United States, or even the world has been attributed to the use of marijuana."

http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?16,693724

It's not just better, it's umpteen times safer too. That's what we should seek for our citizens is safety, not profit margin.

ArseLtd

Just doing the usual rounds!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-seize-5m-worth-of-cannabis-plants-in-nationwide-raids-3271692.html

I see in the comments Irelands cannabis market is at least 400 million, could be up to 800 million. These guys seized 15 million, this is all they can do, what a waste. But all the fools at home will say "ah terrible drugs. Drugs are ruining the country. At least they're catching them" Well they aren't catching feck all.

More reading for anyone who's interested.

http://portlandobserver.com/2012/10/news-laws-for-cannabis/

HarryPotter41

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

How the hell legalizing people getting wasted is a great cause is a complete mystery to me

Because it's great.

Wacker The Attacker

weeeeeeeeed maaaaaaaan

Smudge357

I think it's safe to say at this point that anyone who thinks cannabis should be illegal for any reason doesn't quite understand the situation that prohibition causes and is too uninformed to take part in discussion.

In my opinion, we should decriminalise cannabis growing for personal use. 3 plants per person unless a doctor recommendation/illness requires more.


Cannabis is ganglands main earner at the minute. It is an easy to grow plant and our prohibition makes it's flowers worth more than gold. Cannabis is currently worth €15-20 a gram.

Prohibition of Cannabis leads to exploitation of children and immigrants
These gangs are known to use illegal immigrant Asian children and teenagers as slaves and fall guys. When our gardaí eventually, if ever, do find the grow house, they lock up the fall guy and start another one with another slave.

It's interesting to note that when this occurs in the sex trade the women are treated victims. In the cannabis industry, we imprison the used persons.

Here's a recent example of this in Ireland; http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1020/1224325506071.html

Excellent documentary here on this subject called 'Children of The Cannabis Trade' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUJZQnil5tM

tdv123

ArseLtd wrote: »

That's a very silly narrow minded comment. I'm sure silly comments like that were made before women got to vote or before slavery was abolished in America or before Ireland got independence.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/oct/15/decriminalise-drug-use-say-experts



"Annual deaths related to firearms in the United States: 29,000. Annual deaths related to prescription drugs: 32,000. Annual deaths related to alcohol: 85,000. Related to tobacco: 435,000. Marijuana? 0. Not a single case of death ever recorded in the United States, or even the world has been attributed to the use of marijuana."

http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?16,693724

It's not just better, it's umpteen times safer too. That's what we should seek for our citizens is safety, not profit margin.

What a boring, boring drug this Marijuana is.

Ash.J.Williams

I think the gardai should make the toxicology results from the grow houses public. I suspect the THC levels from irish (industrial) homegrown are through the roof. At least we should see how they compare with the dutch coffee shops.

BUBBLE WRAP

tdv123 wrote: »

What a boring, boring drug this Marijuana is.

Your probably looking for attention with a post like that! Anyhow, Dont knock it till you try it!

charlemont

tdv123 wrote: »

What a boring, boring drug this Marijuana is.

Exactly...
Too boring to be illegal, The time, effort and money put into prohibition against Marijuana is far out of proportion to the effects of Marijuana.

ArseLtd

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I think the gardai should make the toxicology results from the grow houses public. I suspect the THC levels from irish (industrial) homegrown are through the roof. At least we should see how they compare with the dutch coffee shops.

Toxicology is for something which is toxic so that won't be happening. They could, for sh!ts and giggles, test the THC levels to see if it's some heavy sh!t!

THC levels have to do with the strain, lighting, nutrients and a good grower. There's no reason why it wouldn't be as good quality as the Amsterdam stuff but they have some of the best experts over there!

Jimoslimos

ArseLtd wrote: »

"Annual deaths related to firearms in the United States: 29,000. Annual deaths related to prescription drugs: 32,000. Annual deaths related to alcohol: 85,000. Related to tobacco: 435,000. Marijuana? 0. Not a single case of death ever recorded in the United States, or even the world has been attributed to the use of marijuana."

http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?16,693724

It's not just better, it's umpteen times safer too. That's what we should seek for our citizens is safety, not profit margin.

Seriously flawed statistics and does your argument no good. Do you actually believe that no deaths can be attributed to marijuana? Not one single fatal car accident? You think inhaling smoke (from any burning plant) won't have a detrimental effect on lung health and there is absolutely no link with an increased risk of cancer.

Pharma drugs have a high rate because they are tightly controlled - and adverse reactions tend to get reported by a physician, you won't get true values for cannabis until it is legalised and properly monitored. But it will be far far higher than zero.

OneArt

BUBBLE WRAP wrote: »

Your probably looking for attention with a post like that! Anyhow, Dont knock it till you try it!

Well it is. Being stoned is nice now and then but it's more for when you finish work and just want to chill. If I'm partying I'd prefer to be a bit more lively.

I don't really understand people who smoke it every day. Zzzfest.

ArseLtd

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Seriously flawed statistics and does your argument no good. Do you actually believe that no deaths can be attributed to marijuana? Not one single fatal car accident? You think inhaling smoke (from any burning plant) won't have a detrimental effect on lung health and there is absolutely no link with an increased risk of cancer.

Thank you for pointing that out. A car accident is not death by marijuana. I never claimed it to be a guardian angel who steers your car away from danger. Obviously it will impair your driving. It's a while since i looked at statistics but something like 13 fatal car crashes in the US are caused by stoned drivers where as drunk drivers it's in the hundreds of thousands. Yes smoke of any sort won't help your lungs but marijuana seems to be the very healthiest.

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Pharma drugs have a high rate because they are tightly controlled - and adverse reactions tend to get reported by a physician, you won't get true values for cannabis until it is legalised and properly monitored. But it will be far far higher than zero.

I must disagree with that. Pharma are not innocent of skewing results and pretending negative studies didn't happen. And also, with all the people who benefit from prohibition (police, judges, alcohol tobacco companies, private prisons, criminals) none have found one case of overdose of marijuana, even though they have a rather large incentive.

I could quote many sources a quick google will reveal there is no such thing as overdose of cannabis. If you look into the details of deaths that some try to blame on "marijuana overdose" (less than 5 i've heard of) they were either choking on vomit WHILE high or eating so much weed (probably to hide it from the police) that if you were to eat that much of any other herb you would die.

It's like if someone gets drunk and gets knocked over by a car its "oh poor fella, unlucky. He had a drop too much" where if he was high while getting run over they're all "Drugs! Drugs it was the drugs!"

UCDVet

I don't think I've ever heard a compelling argument for why weed should be illegal.

tdv123

BUBBLE WRAP wrote: »

Your probably looking for attention with a post like that! Anyhow, Dont knock it till you try it!

I have.

UCDVet

Smudge357 wrote: »

I think it's safe to say at this point that anyone who thinks cannabis should be illegal for any reason doesn't quite understand the situation that prohibition causes and is too uninformed to take part in discussion.

In my opinion, we should decriminalise cannabis growing for personal use. 3 plants per person unless a doctor recommendation/illness requires more.


Cannabis is ganglands main earner at the minute. It is an easy to grow plant and our prohibition makes it's flowers worth more than gold. Cannabis is currently worth €15-20 a gram.

Prohibition of Cannabis leads to exploitation of children and immigrants
These gangs are known to use illegal immigrant Asian children and teenagers as slaves and fall guys. When our gardaí eventually, if ever, do find the grow house, they lock up the fall guy and start another one with another slave.

It's interesting to note that when this occurs in the sex trade the women are treated victims. In the cannabis industry, we imprison the used persons.

Here's a recent example of this in Ireland; http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1020/1224325506071.html

Excellent documentary here on this subject called 'Children of The Cannabis Trade' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUJZQnil5tM

I'm all for having the option of growing for personal use - but I'm too lazy to do it. I just want to walk in a shop and pick some up.

Steodonn

UCDVet wrote: »

I don't think I've ever heard a compelling argument for why weed should be illegal.

Have you not heard of the reefer madness

tdv123

charlemont wrote: »

Exactly...
Too boring to be illegal, The time, effort and money put into prohibition against Marijuana is far out of proportion to the effects of Marijuana.

I agree with that.

I'm all for harm reduction.

Prohibition of drugs just isn't working & never has been working. No drug becomes safer when you hand it's production line over to criminals. People went blind & had some horrible misfortunes from drinking unsafe amateur homemade liquor in the 20's.

Same with Heroin. You wouldn't have half the people dropping dead from it if it was pure pharmaceutical grade Diamorphine.

It's easy to see why Cannabis is illegal at the moment. The people who are in charge need votes, most people who vote are very right-wing minded people. The people in charge don't wont to loose votes therefore they cater to these very misinformed people.

JyesusChrist

Jackmcg wrote: »

Just look at the head shops. The drugs were already around but the head shops pushed them in peoples faces and made them extremely easy to obtain at lower prices.
I reckon coffee shops/weed off licenses/whatever would have the same effect

.... and on that point- if weed is already available to those who want it, then why are you pushing for legalization?

Because people don't want a criminal record for having weed on them.

Jimoslimos

ArseLtd wrote: »

Thank you for pointing that out. A car accident is not death by marijuana. I never claimed it to be a guardian angel who steers your car away from danger. Obviously it will impair your driving. It's a while since i looked at statistics but something like 13 fatal car crashes in the US are caused by stoned drivers where as drunk drivers it's in the hundreds of thousands. Yes smoke of any sort won't help your lungs but marijuana seems to be the very healthiest.

In the same way lung cancer is not death by tobacco smoking or cirrhosis of the liver is not death by alcohol consumption. Far more people smoke and drink alcohol than use marijuana so obviously the figures will be higher. Raw numbers don't tell us much. You should also look at how deaths are recorded by manner and cause. We have stats on how alcohol, smoking and obesity are risk factors for various illnesses because there are large on-going epidemiology studies, for example the Framingham Heart study.

ArseLtd wrote: »

I must disagree with that. Pharma are not innocent of skewing results and pretending negative studies didn't happen. And also, with all the people who benefit from prohibition (police, judges, alcohol tobacco companies, private prisons, criminals) none have found one case of overdose of marijuana, even though they have a rather large incentive.

Practices of Big Pharma are irrelevant here, yes there is skewing of data with relation to clinical trials but in the real world doctors are obliged to report any serious adverse effect or death caused by the administration of a drug. They are in the best possible position to see any effect on the patient.

Regardless of your position posting wildly inaccurate and speculated stats is unhelpful and doesn't lend credence to your cause.

Gurgle

ArseLtd wrote:

A car accident is not death by marijuana.

Jimoslimos wrote: »

In the same way lung cancer is not death by tobacco smoking or cirrhosis of the liver is not death by alcohol consumption.

Make one really stupid statement and the rest of your posts are tainted.

Smoking causes lung cancer, drinking causes liver failure. Smoking marijuana does not cause car crashes. Driving under the influence of marijuana (or alcohol) causes car crashes.

Jimoslimos

Gurgle wrote: »

Make one really stupid statement and the rest of your posts are tainted.

Smoking causes lung cancer, drinking causes liver failure. Smoking marijuana does not cause car crashes. Driving under the influence of marijuana (or alcohol) causes car crashes.

I'll agree the comparison was poor, natural vs accidental causes of death. But the stats posted told nothing regards the other 'causes' of death.

Smoking doesn't 'cause' anything... it is however a large risk factor for developing lung cancer