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Queen's Visit Q&A Megamerge

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    #92
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    CiaranC wrote: »
    Do the Gardai carry out random stop and searches on the residents of Slane village when the concert is on?

    The barriers are outside the village and everyone who passes them to enter is subject to a search. In addition anyone inside the barriers must either be a resident or have a ticket.

    They are also erected 24 hours before the event starts.


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    #93
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    The barriers are outside the village and everyone who passes them to enter is subject to a search. In addition anyone inside the barriers must either be a resident or have a ticket.
    Similar to match days at Croke Park.


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    #94
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    The barriers are outside the village and everyone who passes them to enter is subject to a search. In addition anyone inside the barriers must either be a resident or have a ticket.

    They are also erected 24 hours before the event starts.

    Thats grand so, they can put the barriers and checkpoints for this outside Dublin. In Wicklow lets say. Ill be happy to pass through them if I need to. ;)


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    #95
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    CiaranC wrote: »
    Thats grand so, they can put the barriers and checkpoints for this outside Dublin. In Wicklow lets say. Ill be happy to pass through them if I need to. ;)

    That would not really be within a mile of the event would it?


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    #96
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    That would not really be within a mile of the event would it?

    I thought it didnt have to be? This is like something out of a Franz Kafka novel


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    #97
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    zil wrote: »
    Bit off topic but does anyone know the legality of video taping gardai when they're working / questioning you?

    If you are in a public place then you can work away. However, if they are dealing with somebody else then do it from a distance rather than in their faces so you won't be interfering.


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    #98
    murrayp4
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭murrayp4


    I've read through the thread and perhaps I've missed it- but there seems to be no legal basis put forward that allows for the random stop and search of pedestrians in the absence of a reasonable belief that the pedestrian is involved in some way in the commission of a scheduled offence or is in the possession of certain articles - OASA, or is in possession of certain articles under the POA (we already know drivers could probably be questioned under the RTA)


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    #99
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    murrayp4 wrote: »
    I've read through the thread and perhaps I've missed it- but there seems to be no legal basis put forward that allows for the random stop and search of pedestrians in the absence of a reasonable belief that the pedestrian is involved in some way in the commission of a scheduled offence or is in the possession of certain articles - OASA, or is in possession of certain articles under the POA (we already know drivers could probably be questioned under the RTA)

    Yep, you missed it.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0021.html#sec21

    Public Order Act, Section 21, permits the random searching of pedestrians, within a mile distance around an event area (event being the visit of the queen, Obama, Europa League Final, Slane concert, etc)


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    #100
    murrayp4
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭murrayp4


    Re:Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994

    s21 does not appear to provide for any powers of search

    s22 provides for powers of search only where the Garda knows or suspects with reasonable cause that a person has in his possession:
    (i) any intoxicating liquor, or

    (ii) any disposable container, or

    (iii) any other article which, having regard to the circumstances or the nature of the event, could be used to cause injury,


    These sections would not appear to provide power for random searches


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    #101
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,065 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    foinse wrote: »
    CiaranC checkpoints can be set up anywhere in the state, at anytime by any member of An Garda Siochana, for the purpose of detecting crime. It is a seperate operation of An Garda Siochana, and does not have a narrow focus. Members at these checkpoints will deal with any offences presented to them. They will also gather intelligence.

    Checkpoints occur up and down the country every day of the week, and are covered under the road traffic legislation.
    I don't think posters in this thread are particularly concerned with vehicle checkpoints, tbh.

    The fact that personal information gathered during the preparation for these events will be shared with the security services of foreign states should be a cause of concern to all citizens, on general principles. Separately, I do not believe for one minute that this data will be destroyed after the events are finished.

    Where do the Irish Council for Civil Liberties stand on all this?

    Not your ornery onager



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    #102
    234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭234


    Why don't you ask them?


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    #103
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,065 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Why don't you . . . .

    I used to have Maurice on speed dial, but he's blocked my number. :D

    Not your ornery onager



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    #104
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Resend wrote: »
    cashel too I heard

    How is she travelling to Cashel? Car? Helicopter?


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    #105
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,065 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Car: 1,000,000 / 1

    Aircraft: reverse those odds

    Not your ornery onager



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    #106
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    This is silly!
    To say that powers of search in this case/event are coming under Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994 is ridiculous.
    Seems to be someones pet project in this thread

    Its clearly coming under section 30, offences against the state.
    The threat to the queen is coming from the subversive groups.
    These are the suspects/suspicions that Gardai will have been told to be on the look out for.

    The Gardai arent on the look out for someone with a rucksack full of dutch gold ffs!!


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    #107
    murrayp4
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭murrayp4


    Re: Offences Against the State Act 1939

    s30 provides inter alia that a Garda may stop, interrogate, search, arrest a person whom he suspects has committed or has been concerned with the commission of a scheduled offence.

    Again- this does not provide for random searches of pedestrians.


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    #108
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,065 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    murrayp4 wrote: »
    Re: Offences Against the State Act 1939

    s30 provides inter alia that a Garda may stop, interrogate, search, arrest a person whom he suspects has committed or has been concerned with the commission of a scheduled offence.
    ..... whom he suspects of having committed or being about to commit or being or having been concerned in the commission....
    The big bold bit.
    murrayp4 wrote: »
    Again- this does not provide for random searches of pedestrians.

    A search would not be random if the garda had a suspicion... ;)

    Not your ornery onager



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    #109
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭source


    Esel my checkpoint post was in response to a direct question from CiaranC about checkpoints. Did you even read the whole thread before commenting of just pick posts at random to comment on?


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    #110
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,247 ✭✭✭howiya


    So if I refuse to be searched in the IFSC while the bitch is at the convention centre and the gardai drop me off a mile away, how does that effect my livelihood? Am i allowed return to the IFSC?


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    #111
    not even wrong
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭not even wrong


    Esel wrote: »
    The big bold bit.



    A search would not be random if the garda had a suspicion... ;)
    The garda must have reasonable grounds for any suspicion i.e. "I didn't like the look of him" won't cut it.


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    #112
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    howiya wrote: »
    So if I refuse to be searched in the IFSC while the bitch is at the convention centre and the gardai drop me off a mile away, how does that effect my livelihood? Am i allowed return to the IFSC?

    When the barriers are down.


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    #113
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,065 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    foinse wrote: »
    Esel my checkpoint post was in response to a direct question from CiaranC about checkpoints. Did you even read the whole thread before commenting of just pick posts at random to comment on?
    Yes, I have read the entire thread. Maybe if you had used the Quote function when replying to CiaranC I (and other users) might have noticed that your post was a reply to a question.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #114
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    People seem to be under the impression that Gardaí will be relying on one piece of legislation. The Gardaí have many powers different powers under which they can stop and search someone. They can use any of them during this event. For people entering the cordoned area it will be the public order act. For those inside it can be a number of different pieces of legislation they use; OASA, Firearms, Drugs.

    If you are stopped entering the area and don't want to be searched then you will be turned away. If you are stopped inside the area and fail to comply with a search you will probably be arrested. By all means ask what power you are being searched under, but don't expect to have a legal debate on the side of the road with him. That will a be debate for court.


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    #115
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    Ok, so its probably not legal for the Garda to do random stop and searches in Dublin, but nobody really cares if it makes things "safe".

    Whats the legal basis for this then?
    The security risk is now considered so high that armed Metropolitan Police Royalty Protection Officers will be deployed on the streets of Dublin.

    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/security-stepped-up-after-reports-of-dissident-activity-505031.html#ixzz1MKrw8REq


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    #116
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭source


    Esel wrote: »
    Yes, I have read the entire thread. Maybe if you had used the Quote function when replying to CiaranC I (and other users) might have noticed that your post was a reply to a question.

    Esel the very first word in the post you quoted was another users name. This means my post was directed at that poster.

    If you have a problem with that post then report it, otherwise get over it.


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    #117
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭source


    CiaranC wrote: »
    Ok, so its probably not legal for the Garda to do random stop and searches in Dublin, but nobody really cares if it makes things "safe".

    Whats the legal basis for this then?



    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/security-stepped-up-after-reports-of-dissident-activity-505031.html#ixzz1MKrw8REq

    Nations often allow visiting dignitaries to bring their own personal protection force when there is a credible threat.

    Clinton and Bush were extended the same courtesy when they visited, as will Obama. That article is just a news paper trying to sell papers.


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    #118
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,065 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    foinse wrote: »
    Esel the very first word in the post you quoted was another users name. This means my post was directed at that poster.

    If you have a problem with that post then report it, otherwise get over it.
    Nothing for me to get over here.

    Do you see how this post is obviously a reply to you? That is because I used the Quote button. Try it - you may like it.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #119
    rab!dmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭rab!dmonkey


    Can we get a brief summation of what the Guards can/can't do?
    As far as I understand it, the situation is thus:

    The Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994 provides for the following measures
    1) Setting up barriers and controlling access up to one mile away from where the Queen is visiting.
    2) Under the same act, a Guard can direct you to a specific entry point.
    3) Under section 3 of the same act, the Guards can't stop you from passing through provided you have a lawful reason to be within the barriers.
    4) No reference to any type of search is made by the Act, though entering within the barriers with "any intoxicating liquor, disposable drinks container or offensive article will render such liquor, container or article liable to confiscation".

    The Offences Against the State Act, 1939 provides for the following measures
    1) If you are suspected (that means evidence, not a hunch) of having anything to do with an offence listed in the Act, you can be stopped/searched/arrested/interrogated by a Garda (either wearing a uniform or having provided identification).
    2) A Garda may demand your name and address, take a photo of you, search you, take your fingerprints, after you have been detained under this Act.
    3) Random searches are not provided for.

    If I'm wrong about any of that I welcome correction.
    I haven't heard any word of random searches within the barriers, as far as I know it'll be random searches at the entrances only. I do know that some friends of mine were randomly (it was definitely random: they got to to pick the next folks to be subjected to a search) searched at EP last year. Is there an instrument of law which compels them to consent or were the Gardaí in question simply taking their chances?

    I'd also like to note that my house is another which may possibly be along the Queen's route; it backs onto a main road near the Phoenix Park. So far the Gardaí have called twice. The first time no one answered the door. I was the only one in the house and I didn't get to the door before they moved on to the next door. I overheard them talking to the occupants (it was then that I realised they were Gardaí). I think the Gardaí just asked if they had any cars that weren't present at the time. They then suggested putting deck chairs on the garage roof and watching herself pass by.

    The next time the Guards called my parents were out and my younger brother answered the door. I asked the Guard what he was calling regarding and he said he was after names, dates of birth and car registrations for the security of the Queen. They never asked to enter the house on any basis. As far as I know, they haven't been in contact since, though I'll check with my parents tomorrow.


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    #120
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    not even wrong wrote: »
    The garda must have reasonable grounds for any suspicion i.e. "I didn't like the look of him" won't cut it.


    They could easily say you 'appeared nervous' when approaching you and that warranted reasonable grounds for stopping and searhing you.n.


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    #121
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Not good enough.


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