Smackdown Results 5/6 *Spoilers*

GTR63

The sad thing is Christian is a transitional champion, if he gets a rematch its highly unlikely he'll win it whether he's a heel or face.Find it funny that so many in wwe are moaning when their "wwe universe" is only voicing their opinion.

drayme

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Jericho's take:



Now I did consider this before I was leaving work, but I just don't believe that Vince will put the strap back on Christian.

That being said, this could be a fantastic way of *really* getting Christian over, I mean main event over. Also, if he does somehow get back the title, he'll have earned it off his own back, and not just because Edge retired and Del Rio had to move brands.

Aye the money is in the chase

parker kent

GTR63 wrote: »

God I love people saying guys ain't draws & tag team wrestling doesn't draw when ppv numbers are falling by the month.Bar Nostalgiamania which needed The Rock so badly to get that illusive 7 figure buy rate.

I agree there. The "he doesn't draw" line is used so much on here and could be said about any wrest...sorry superstar in the WWE. The figures the WWE gets now are largely based on the organisation as a whole. In other words, people say I want to watch the Royal Rumble or Summerslam etc, not I want to see X match.

rossie1977

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is Orton really a big draw?

he does good merch numbers

MAJR

drayme wrote: »

a) Smackdown doesnt have the heel support to carry a champion like Christian

b) They probably think Christian would be better chasing the title then defending it.

A) Smackdown is overloaded with Heels. A good underdog champion is just what the brands needs and Christian would be perfect in that role. Orton is never an underdog because no one ever gets the better of him unless its serveral men in a sneak attack, and even then its touch and go. Any feud between Christian and Sheamus, Barrett, Henry, Jackson, Rhodes or even Brodus Clay (if the WWE wanted to really push him) would be more interesting than any Orton feud, especially since the idea now is for Smackdown to center around Orton and he's unlikely to lose in the near future.

Vince McMahon is on record as saying he doesn't see Christian as main-event material and it it well known that none of the WWE's writers see him as main-event material either. In a case of nothing else but snobbery Christian is being ruled out without even being given a chance. Even if he's chasing he belt he's unlikely to hold it again, specifically since reports from inside the WWE state Vince only gave him the title to have a moment with Edge and Christian on the PPV and no other reason.

And it has emerged that the original plan was to have Del Rio win the match at Extreme Rules only for him to lose 2 days later to Orton and the only reason this was changed it because Del Rio is a big draw for the Mexican audience.

I have never tuned into a WWE show or bought a WWE PPV to see an Orton match. I rate Orton very poorly as as performer and the only match I've ever liked him in was vs. Cactus Jack and Mick Foley was the man incharge of orchestrating that Match. I have never known what the WWE have seen in Orton because he's not World/WWE Title/Main-event material and the only reason I can see that he's been pushed is because he's the son of Cowboy Bob and the Grandson of Bob Orton snr.

JP Liz V1

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Jericho's take:



Now I did consider this before I was leaving work, but I just don't believe that Vince will put the strap back on Christian.

That being said, this could be a fantastic way of *really* getting Christian over, I mean main event over. Also, if he does somehow get back the title, he'll have earned it off his own back, and not just because Edge retired and Del Rio had to move brands.

I hope Jericho is right (I'm still holding hope for a Jericho/Christian feud)

rossie1977

MAJR wrote: »

A) Smackdown is overloaded with Heels.

no mainevent heels which is the point drayme was making, sheamus they have pushed into midcard and they are making barrett a complete jobber these days. barrett imo could and is a good money main event heel as he showed in 2010. he is excellent on the mic and great at building heat but they have treated him like crap since the cena program ended.

I have never tuned into a WWE show or bought a WWE PPV to see an Orton match. I rate Orton very poorly as as performer and the only match I've ever liked him in was vs. Cactus Jack and Mick Foley was the man incharge of orchestrating that Match. I have never known what the WWE have seen in Orton because he's not World/WWE Title/Main-event material and the only reason I can see that he's been pushed is because he's the son of Cowboy Bob and the Grandson of Bob Orton snr.

i think there is more to it than that otherwise harry smith son of davey boy, grandson of stu hart and nephew of owen and bret or ted dibiase jr son of ted sr and grandson of iron mike or joe hennig son of curt and grandson of larry hennig would be right up there with him now at the top of the card but they ain't, brett dibiase the younger brother of ted was released during the week from his fcw contract, vince has also shown no favouritism towards the likes of manu or sim snuka and i don't see the usos going far in wwe

i think orton was the right guy in the right place at the time, wwe had a number of big talents coming in such as cena, lesnar and batista and orton kinda fell in along with them, he is a decent heel and his program with cena at the backend of 2009 was very good, the buildup to his match with hhh at mania 25 was excellent and that was mostly down to him because he played the dispicable heel amazingly well for about 2 months leading into that mania

women also love him which is a major plus in this era (i call it the era of the underwear model wrestler) if you ask female wrestling fans who is better looking cena or orton, most of em will say orton

Eire-Dearg

I like Orton.

/leaves

parker kent

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I like Orton.

/leaves

I think Orton is one of the most talented guys they have, just he suits being a heel. He's not very likeable, which is a must have quality in a face. The legend killer gimmick was brilliant and he excelled.

Though as I said earlier, by all accounts the crowd ate him up at Smackdown this week.

Eire-Dearg

parker kent wrote: »

I think Orton is one of the most talented guys they have, just he suits being a heel. He's not very likeable, which is a must have quality in a face. The legend killer gimmick was brilliant and he excelled.

Though as I said earlier, by all accounts the crowd ate him up at Smackdown this week.

By ate him up do you mean they booed the shíte out of him or they lapped him up winning the title? I'm assuming the former.

parker kent

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

By ate him up do you mean they booed the shíte out of him or they lapped him up winning the title? I'm assuming the former.

As in they loved him. I thought that was a common phrase? Maybe it is in my head :pac:

starviewadams

There's only two reasons why I'll watch SD! now,Sheamus and Danielson.

Orton is just a slightly better version of super Cena,why can't WWE build a show around somebody who can wrestle,it would be a nice change of pace!

Eire-Dearg

For me the fundamental problem with WWE at the moment is each roster is chockablocked with nobodies. There've lost all their identities and that shows when they're pushing Orton to the top of one queue and keeping Cena on top of the other one.

There was no comfortable transition from the loss of the likes of Shawn Michaels, HHH, Rock, SCSA, Undertaker, etc. Sure they've got some great athletes and diverse characters, but there's no identifies and none at the minute are being built.

Rjd2

parker kent wrote: »

Though as I said earlier, by all accounts the crowd ate him up at Smackdown this week.

Crowd eating up a new Heavyweight Championship?


Hasn't happened for ages has it??:pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_J0IMI0J1s

Also Bryan Alvarez nailed the silliness of this quite well on his podcast 6 minutes in, very funny as well!

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/20494/

parker kent

Rjd2 wrote: »

Crowd eating up a new Heavyweight Championship?


Hasn't happened for ages has it??:pac:

Whatever happened on Sunday doesn't really change my point. I was just saying the crowd was supposed to be pretty hot for Orton on Tuesday.

Rjd2

parker kent wrote: »

Whatever happened on Sunday doesn't really change my point. I was just saying the crowd was supposed to be pretty hot for Orton on Tuesday.

Apologies my tone may have come across as wrong their. No offense meant.

Not disputing Orton got a huge pop on Tuesday, but I just wanted to post that video really.


Again its not a criticism of your post or YPOV.

Its 2.17am and I am discussing Christian been wronged on Boards..:o

Bedtime. :eek:

Gintoki

Just thought I'd post my thoughts on the ridiculously short title reign. I mean....WWE seems so allergic to giving new fresh babyfaces as champions. Its pretty unbelieveable that Kane got 5 damn months in his **** reign last year. Rey Mysterio got nearly 3 months for his horrible first title run. Yet Christian, a guy who's worked so hard, always delievers in the ring and on the mic gets 2 days. Seems Orton is going to be the focal point of Smackdown from now on. That's fine I won't watch. Cena and Orton champions again, for the millionith time. They have been so overexposed the past 6 years.

SlickRic

the problem too, is, that when it comes to WWE, they have their guys at this stage...and that's it.

so nobody fresh comes in.

then also, in terms of the top guys, nobody's ever allowed to beat anyone clean. so nobody cares. that is the key, nobody CARES. some girls may find Orton hot. some may find Cena hot. and some children may like him being a superhero. but nobody actually cares about the matches, and the story is what will make people pay money to see a PPV.

there is no consequence to anything.

imagine paying for Extreme Rules, then seeing the guy you invested time and energy into, and celebrating with in Christian, and seeing that investment shat on. why would i buy the next PPV? why? they want to know why the PPVs are down, that's why, in a nutshell. nobody feels they'll see anything at a PPV that they won't maybe see on a Raw or Smackdown. it's amazing to me how that can't be seen.

if i can also diverge to Raw.

Miz/Cena is retarded. again, why would i care. Miz didn't win, and he didn't really lose because of the stupid finish. so there's no drama. there's no anticipation. as Alvarez said this week, why not just have Miz beat Cena in a non-title match, with the belt to the head finish, setting up the PPV? why not?

it's simple, it's effective, and will tell a simple story that will at least garner some interest. but no,

WWE either can't have either guy lose

, or they have writers who don't know what they're doing.

make the story fúcking simple, and you'll sell tickets.

i re-watched a Paul Heyman interview yesterday on 'The MMA Hour' where he brings up this excellent point. Wrestling has become far too convoluted. all you & i want to see is a good story told, and we'll buy a ticket. it's that simple. make the bad guy bad. build him, build him (simply, and of course creatively), but make sure you build him up over a bit of time, even over PPVs. then bring the hero in who can go against him. then have them fight and see what happens. part of why people, IMO, really struggle to take Cena, or even Orton on the IWC (among other things of course), is that we never get given enough time to care about Cena/Orton. they never really look in jeopardy. i don't remember the last time i believed either of them were being threatened as the top people in the company. nobody's being built to challenge them. yes, they get sidetracked in other feuds occasionally, but even then, the likes of Cena just laugh it off.

nobody's giving us a chance to care.

i remember the days when HHH used to crucify The Rock week after week after week, and you literally hated the bastard, because he'd always find a way to one-up him in the end. so you hated him. you loved the Rock because he entertained you and loved the fans. so you cared what happened to him. so you bought a ticket.

same with Stone Cold. McMahon kept screwing him and screwing him week after week on TV, so you tuned in or bought the PPV just to see what the hell Austin did to react. build up the baddie, put the hero against him, see what happens.

so fúcking simple.

and if they just went back to basics, i firmly believe PPV buys would improve, and they wouldn't desperately need The Rock to spike them.

anyway, a bit off topic, and a bit of a rant. but there you go.

P.S - here's the Heyman Interview, it's long, and his talking about Pro Wrestling mainly comes in the first halfhour.

http://www.wrestleview.com/viewnews.php?id=1282074356

Lord TSC

Oh my...WWE.com be trolling. They are pushing Smackdown as a "Watch and celebrate with Christian" show....

Gintoki

SlickRic wrote: »

there is no consequence to anything.

imagine paying for Extreme Rules, then seeing the guy you invested time and energy into, and celebrating with in Christian, and seeing that investment shat on. why would i buy the next PPV? why? they want to know why the PPVs are down, that's why, in a nutshell. nobody feels they'll see anything at a PPV that they won't maybe see on a Raw or Smackdown. it's amazing to me how that can't be seen.

Exactly! Why should we invest in characters and want to see them succeed if this is how they are treated when they finally achieve their goals? Imagine if Eddie Guerrero after overcoming all his demon's and finally winning the WWE title at No Way Out 2004, we see how much this means to him, we celebrate with him, BOOM next Smackdown he lost the belt to somebody else. It would have meant nothing. People who bought No Way Out, hell even people who were just happy with the outcome would just feel slapped in the face.

fans can say 'oh that guy doesn't draw that's why Orton is champ again' well how can we know that if nobody but Cena or Orton are given a chance to draw in the first place. Not to mention how them being damn invincible just makes things so stale and unimportant. Rock had his legendary feud with HHH, no matter what, even at Wrestlemania 2000 he couldn't beat HHH, then FINALLY he beat him at Backlash for the championship. He had to work to overcome his obstacles, we saw his plight as a character. It was drama and it worked. Here Orton beats Christian. There is no story, no drama, just Orton beating Christian clean.

SlickRic

and what all this means is, that if anyone blames PG again, i'm likely to lose it.

it has a minor role in it, but very minor.

drama is still very easily built without saying 'ass', 'son of a bítch' or 'bastard'. and bar the odd match where blood would be useful, it's not even a deal-breaker there.

simple, effective stories will make people pay money to see you.

and you can easily do that in a PG environment.

look at fúcking Toy Story 3 recently.

i hated that fúcking bear. even by the very end it looked like he might prevail and i was loving it. they even had a false finish where we thought he was dead. a simple, family friendly story which was awesome, just because it told the basic story of Woody overcoming Bear.

stupid anaolgy probably, but you see where i'm going

it really is that simple.

grames_bond

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Oh my...WWE.com be trolling. They are pushing Smackdown as a "Watch and celebrate with Christian" show....

"wwe classic moment of the week" this week is Christians Debut against Taka at Judgement day 98 - they have even titled it "christians debut" instead of the normal "x vs y" title - they are rubbing it in here!

Gerard.C

Actually seeing the backlash to this happening, you cant blame them for doing it, I'd do it for the craic if I was them too. Uproar over Christian getting an RKO like, you have to see the funny side of it

Pentecost

It'll help if they have plans for a longer storyline. The more reaction the better.

SlickRic

Pentecost wrote: »

It'll help if they have plans for a longer storyline. The more reaction the better.

it's not just length.

there's no point in a feud being long if a heel and face just trade wins for months.

the heel has to be believable, has to be strong, and has to be a significant obstacle for the face to overcome.

otherwise why get behind the hero?

so the heel has to be built for long enough so that the fan actually doubts that the face can overcome him, so that the fan has something to get behind. the fan will pay to see a hero overcome the odds to beat the big bad guy.

that, IMO, is, at its most basic level, the premise to just about every great feud there's ever been; bar your megastar v megastar feuds like Rock v Austin at WM X7, or Hogan/Rock at WM X8.

fúck it, it's the basic premise for the main gimmick attached to every Wrestlemania for the last half a dozen years...even though Taker ain't the bad guy so to speak, the premise remains. you build him up, build him up, build him up; and then the idea is that you pay to see if whoever he comes up against can beat him. that's the money.

the money isn't in simply 'seeing Taker at WM' like WWE try to tell you in the videos these days. he 'is' Wrestlemania and all that garbage. it's in the fact you have a guy against him trying to overcome the greatest challenge there is to face at WM. that's where the money is.

tbh, i'm convinced that WWE don't even know the reasoning behind why 'The Streak' is a draw anymore, if they ever did...but that basic premise is, IMO, why it is.

as i say, it's the basis of the vast majority of great feuds i can think of.

parker kent

Actual wrestling bookers who understand wrestling will understand the logic behind the streak and in building classical heel/face feuds. Idiots who failed on Days of Our Lives and are out to write "entertainment" will not really understand it.

Jazzy

WWE........................ lol

DM_7

Forgetting about the way Christian suddenly lost the belt on a taped show and that it may be part of a bigger storyline.

Is it surprising or wrong for WWE to keep going back to Orton and Cena?

Over the last 7/8 years WWE have lost many big names and people who they were getting behind, through tragedy, injury, old age, poor attitude, misfortune or semi retirement.

Since 04(ish) - I am certain to leave people out and not to do this in order!

Brock Lesnar left
Muhammad Hassan was let go due to bad timing
Jericho left
Christian left for 3 and a half years (When you look at this list you will see he could have done well is he stayed)
Eddie passed away (R.I.P)
Kurt Angle left
RVD's wife got sick and he was too fond of the oul hash
The Benoit Tradegy
JBL retired with a bad back
Bobby Lashley quit
Umaga (R.I.P) was let go through wellness
Jeff Hardy through burnout/possible drug use
Kennedy got injured when he won MITB and never recovered before getting hurt again
Batista Left
HBK retired
Jericho Left Again
Undertaker is semi Retired
HHH s semi retired
Edge had to retire through injury

Thats a huge turnover of main event talent/potential main eventers

When you see a list of people like that, where WWE have put time into them and for a variety of reasons they are no longer available it must make them appreciate how Cena and Orton were around all that time. It also explains to me why they keep returning to them time and time again.
Up to when Edge retired through injury he was in a similar spot. Orton made mistakes early but he was very young.

They earned Vince's trust and excluding injuries they were at every TV show, every PPV, every house show they were needed.

jimmy jailbreak

Just watched the episode and...well it was painful. Not because it was a bad or anything but seeing Christian hold that title and deliver such a heartfelt promo at the top of the show knowing he was going to loose it was almost unbearable.

The match itself was fantastic! It was non stop action and the crowd was eating it up. Of course it was marred by the fact that Orton won. What happened afterwards though could easily mean a feud between Christian and Orton. Cole buried Christian for loosing the title so quickly, "the Cinderella story is over" as Christian somberly walked out of the arena. Christian could easily turn heel next week or maybe he'll stay a face, either way I see this becoming a big feud.

parker kent

SlickRic wrote: »

part of why people, IMO, really struggle to take Cena, or even Orton on the IWC (among other things of course), is that we never get given enough time to care about Cena/Orton. they never really look in jeopardy. i don't remember the last time i believed either of them were being threatened as the top people in the company. nobody's being built to challenge them. yes, they get sidetracked in other feuds occasionally, but even then, the likes of Cena just laugh it off.

That is exactly why The Nexus angle so píssed me off, as was pretty obvious in the epic rants I had about the angle on here. It was the culmination of years of woeful booking. I finally thought they were going to try and create one new main eventer in Wade and some additions to a woefully ignored midcard. But it became the same old story of it being seen as blindly obvious that Cena had nothing to worry about.

The move towards being a TV based company, instead of building to PPVs is one reason why I think they do this. They like to have consistent happy moments on TV. PPVs are not seen as the culmination of angles. They often build to a TV episode, which is just shoddy booking. The Macho Man/Hogan main event referred to elsewhere on the forum is an example of how a feud is supposed to build over time and culminate at a PPV.

The same basic logic can be used in any angle. Heyman and Cornette repeat that maxim ad nauseum in every interview. But idiots from TV shows like Gerwitz don't understand how to build wrestling angles. And until the WWE admits that the middle W stands for wrestling, I don't think they will be building angles like Heyman or you or I want to see.