Dublin Marathon 2011 'improvers' thread

bart simpson

pconn062 wrote: »

Yeah what you both say about the Dublin half sounds good, I suppose I was just worried about setting my times in my training plan now with a particular goal in mind. But as you say the paces for a 3:30 or a 3:45 won't be THAT different.

in my opinion use paces for 3:30
your races suggest close to that, but dont put pressure on yourself to commit to that time, but you should be able to handle the tempos of 3:30 training

pconn062

Thanks for that, 3:30 seems good and even if I decide to aim for a bit lower (3:40 or something) it would be good to have the 3:30 training in the legs.

Dutchie

No offence but your times seem to be erratic, 34.10 fo 5mile and 44.30 for 10km?!

I had a near identical 5 mile time to you going into DCM 2010, my 10mile was 1.06.
I finished DCM in 3.01 having said that i was targeting 3.15

it's amazing when you get your nutrition right, go for a massage every week and push yourself to the limit what you can acheive.

good luck with your training.

pconn062

Dutchie wrote: »

No offence but your times seem to be erratic, 34.10 fo 5mile and 44.30 for 10km?!

I had a near identical 5 mile time to you going into DCM 2010, my 10mile was 1.06.
I finished DCM in 3.01 having said that i was targeting 3.15

it's amazing when you get your nutrition right, go for a massage every week and push yourself to the limit what you can acheive.

good luck with your training.

Yeah fair point but my 5 mile and 5k pbs were both this year but I haven't raced a 10 mile or 10k since last year so I'm sure if I raced those distances now I would break both of them. I fact I'm aiming for close to 70 mins or so for the Frank Duffy 10 miler next month and I've broke my 10k pb in training several times since then but training doesn't count!

finisklin

Dutchie wrote: »

it's amazing when you get your nutrition right
good luck with your training.

Dutchie,

this is something I am looking at the moment, as DCM is my first marathon. Could you give me some pointers on your diet? Any help would be appreciated.

Dutchie

finisklin wrote: »

Dutchie,

this is something I am looking at the moment, as DCM is my first marathon. Could you give me some pointers on your diet? Any help would be appreciated.

During my training phase I Increased my carb and protein uptake. Kept hydrated at all time cut out all fatty foods and cooked all of my food by grilling or boiling were possible.
I ate a large bowl of porrdidge every morning including the morning of the marathon with bananas, fruit and skimmed milk. No butter, mayo, or sugar at anytime.

I always took gels and carb drink during my LSR's. I took a gel every 20-25mins and drank carb drink regularly.
I started my carbo loading nearly 1 week prior to DCM. I depleted my carb store on the Tuesday/Wednesday and carbo loaded right up until the morning of DCM. Carbo loading gave me terrible headaches and feeling lethargic up until the day before the race. However I was buzzing on the morning of race and felt invincible. My sport scientist told me to treat your carb store as a fuel tank, and that you have to keep it topped up all race with fructose and glucose carbs, hence the reason for the regualrity of the gels.

I didn't fade at all during DCM and i thought nutrition was the one aspect of
my race I got right.
Not very scientific I know, but it worked for me.

Best of luck.

jonny99

pconn062 wrote: »

Thanks for that, 3:30 seems good and even if I decide to aim for a bit lower (3:40 or something) it would be good to have the 3:30 training in the legs.

Just another angle...setting your sights a little lower will practically guarantee a PB, which you should then be able to beat next time out again, giving you two successful and enjoyable outings.
Back in 2004, i set a pb which was 20mins quicker than my previous, and ive spent 7 years and 18 marathons since trying to replicate it-so be careful what you wish for;)

potsy11

I've got a question, (doing the P&D 18wk / 55m plan)

The long run last week was 16 miles with 10m @ RP. My goal RP for the marathon is 7.28. I did the 10m from mile 5-15 but could only manage 7.42 (avg). HR was sittign at 165-169 for the latter part of the 10m. I could have gone faster but would have been really pushing it.

Given that we are 12 weeks out from DCM would this be normal? Can i expect to improve this Avg Pace?

Cheers in advance.

ger664

potsy11 wrote: »

I've got a question, (doing the P&D 18wk / 55m plan)

The long run last week was 16 miles with 10m @ RP. My goal RP for the marathon is 7.28. I did the 10m from mile 5-15 but could only manage 7.42 (avg). HR was sittign at 165-169 for the latter part of the 10m. I could have gone faster but would have been really pushing it.

Given that we are 12 weeks out from DCM would this be normal? Can i expect to improve this Avg Pace?

Cheers in advance.

How did you calculate your race pace, from a previous run or what you would like to do ?

potsy11

ger664 wrote: »

How did you calculate your race pace, from a previous run or what you would like to do ?

My goal RP is based on 3:15 marathon - 7.28mins/mile
I measured my avg RP during my run with my Polar watch.

Mr Slow

potsy11 wrote: »

I've got a question, (doing the P&D 18wk / 55m plan)

The long run last week was 16 miles with 10m @ RP. My goal RP for the marathon is 7.28. I did the 10m from mile 5-15 but could only manage 7.42 (avg). HR was sittign at 165-169 for the latter part of the 10m. I could have gone faster but would have been really pushing it.

Given that we are 12 weeks out from DCM would this be normal? Can i expect to improve this Avg Pace?

Cheers in advance.

I would have thought that your marathon race pace should be reasonably comfortable at the start of training?

menoscemo

potsy11 wrote: »

I've got a question, (doing the P&D 18wk / 55m plan)

The long run last week was 16 miles with 10m @ RP. My goal RP for the marathon is 7.28. I did the 10m from mile 5-15 but could only manage 7.42 (avg). HR was sittign at 165-169 for the latter part of the 10m. I could have gone faster but would have been really pushing it.

Given that we are 12 weeks out from DCM would this be normal? Can i expect to improve this Avg Pace?

Cheers in advance.

Potsy, when I was doing the PMP runs for DCM last year, my HR was up in 160's as well, but on Race day it was in the low 150's for the same speed. The pace felt a hell of a lot easier on the day than it did in training, given that I was well rested and tapered for the race. I say stick with it because you will get fitter as the training programme goes on and also you will be a lot fresher on the day of the marathon.

average_runner

Also remember you have a load of miles in your legs so they are bound to be tired too.


On marathon day you will be fresh.

Dundalk

Hi Lads and Lassies

I really want to run Dublin this year but was held back by injury for the last few months, Im back running now and feeling good, I kept myself fit enough during the injury and ran a 10k race yesterday in just over 43 mins.

My question is, have I still enough time to get enough long runs under my belt. I ran Dublin in 2009 in 3.28 and would like to match if not beat that time. Im running for Charity and will do the race but should I just train to finish the race or if I train hard between now and race day can I get something like that time again without risking injury again?

firemouth

anybody any ideas on how fast tune up races in P&D programmes should be run?plan on running in the national half girst week of september and dont want to have too great an impact on the rest of my training

Mr Slow

firemouth wrote: »

anybody any ideas on how fast tune up races in P&D programmes should be run?plan on running in the national half girst week of september and dont want to have too great an impact on the rest of my training

I ran flat out for mine for Cork, suffered on the long run next day but put it down to a glycogen depletion exercise.

Jimh

I'm not sure what time to go for this year - I did last years in 4:30 (Age 50/5'10"/16 stone) - This year I am hoping to be nearer 14st 7 - This will be my 4th Marathon - I would not know what a negative split is and have always struggled in the last 5 miles - Dublin last year was the most balanced I had 2.13.30 - 2.16.30. This year I seem to be going a bit quicker - My long runs are coming in at 6.05 min/km and I am not pushing myself in these and I have done a 5 mile in 41:30 and an 11Km on Sat in 59:45 and followed this with a 14 mile LSR in 2:16. I don't want to commit to a time yet - I have Longford and Phoenix Park 1/2's to come and the Athlone 3/4 - I would love 3:59:59 but I think 4:15 is probably more likely. I was thinking of trying to hang on to the 4 hour pacers for as long as I can but am not sure if I will really suffer in the last 5 miles. I am doing Hal Higdon intermediate 2 so 14 is the longest run to date but I did do Barcelona in March

geld

Jimh,

I would aim for the 4:15 as the target. Dropping a half-hour in a year for a marathon would be incredible but a bit unrealistic. My best improvement for the marathon was 13 minutes.

The sensible thing to do would be to tag onto the 4:15 pacer. If you do go with the 4:00 pacer beware not to do too much too soon.

After rereading your post I think you have it right in terms of a plan touched with a bit of wishful thinking. BTW well done on the weight loss and best of luck.

Oisin11178

geld wrote: »

Jimh,

I would aim for the 4:15 as the target. Dropping a half-hour in a year for a marathon would be incredible but a bit unrealistic. My best improvement for the marathon was 13 minutes.

The sensible thing to do would be to tag onto the 4:15 pacer. If you do go with the 4:00 pacer beware not to do too much too soon.

After rereading your post I think you have it right in terms of a plan touched with a bit of wishful thinking. BTW well done on the weight loss and best of luck.

You reckon 30 mins in 1 year is unrealistic?. The chap has already said hes aiming to be 20 pounds lighter and his training is faster. These 2 things alone give him a great chance of a sub 4 in my opinion. There is a long way to go to dublin lets not get carried away with the negativity.

rainbow kirby

Oisin11178 wrote: »

You reckon 30 mins in 1 year is unrealistic?

I don't think it's unrealistic, I went from 4:27 (Dublin '10) -> 3:59 (Barcelona '11) in around four and a half months. If he keeps his training solid, there's no reason why he can't make big improvements. I wouldn't be setting a definite target until he's done the half and his last few LSRs, that will give him a much better indication of what sort of shape he's in.

geld

Oisin11178 wrote: »

lets not get carried away with the negativity.

I wasn't been negative but was being realistic. Anyway as both you and RK say now probably is not the time to be making a time prediction as it's too early. Maybe JimH you can come back closer to the date and make a call then. (...and then prove me wrong on the day!!)

Jimh

Thanks for your replies - I am going to try to break two hours at the Longord 1/2 and then see if I can get lower in Phoenix - If that goes OK I am going to try to get close to 3 hours in Athlone though I remember the number of hills that never seem to end in the last 3 miles - I will decide after that - McMillan is showing around 4:10 to 4:15 at the moment - The 14 miler today followed the 11K fast run yesterday so we will see how it goes

Tec Diver

Jimh wrote: »

I'm not sure what time to go for this year - I did last years in 4:30 (Age 50/5'10"/16 stone) - This year I am hoping to be nearer 14st 7 - This will be my 4th Marathon - I would not know what a negative split is and have always struggled in the last 5 miles - Dublin last year was the most balanced I had 2.13.30 - 2.16.30. This year I seem to be going a bit quicker - My long runs are coming in at 6.05 min/km and I am not pushing myself in these and I have done a 5 mile in 41:30 and an 11Km on Sat in 59:45 and followed this with a 14 mile LSR in 2:16. I don't want to commit to a time yet - I have Longford and Phoenix Park 1/2's to come and the Athlone 3/4 - I would love 3:59:59 but I think 4:15 is probably more likely. I was thinking of trying to hang on to the 4 hour pacers for as long as I can but am not sure if I will really suffer in the last 5 miles. I am doing Hal Higdon intermediate 2 so 14 is the longest run to date but I did do Barcelona in March

Hi Jimh, your times/paces are quite similar to mine, although I'm a few years younger. I did Connemara in 4:26 as my first but I'm hoping for sub-4 this time. Mind you I'm doing a lot of training as I wasn't trained enough in April (partly due to a chest infection).
I'd say aim for 4:15 and see how the energy is for the last 6-8k for a final push.
Eoin

Mr Slow

geld wrote: »

I wasn't been negative but was being realistic.

Just to add my 2 cents, I ran DCM Oct 2010 in 4:15 and Cork June 2011 in 3:43. I aim to run DCM in 3:30 which would be 45 mins in a year.

RayCun

It's easier to make the big gains in the early years of running, though perhaps Jimh hasn't had a long period of sustained running, and if this is his first year running consistently he can improve a lot.

Jimh

I started the Running in earnest in Jan 2010 when I decided I should run a Marathon for my 50th Birthday and did Newry in the May - Dublin in the October - Barcelona in March 2011 (But not in a good state of training then due to the bad winter) - Prior to that I was a Gym Treadmill runner never usually more than 5K with the occasional 10K. Newry was my first race no 1/2 or 10k before then.

Jimh

Training seems to be going well ( by my standards)
43 Miles for the week with a 2.23.53 for 15 miles at the end of 5 consecutive runs - The splits were 1.13 against 1.11 for second half so I was well happy with that. The dream of a sub - 4 is still alive. Longford 1/2 might give a better indication next week

Jimh

Longford 1/2 Marathon in 1:54:56 - With only two days rest beforehand - Is the sub 4 hour on now? + I had a negative split of over a minute

Mr Slow

Jimh wrote: »

Longford 1/2 Marathon in 1:54:56 - With only two days rest beforehand - Is the sub 4 hour on now? + I had a negative split of over a minute

The series half would be a much better indicator, it won't hurt to train for sub 4 in the interim.

neilc

Mr Slow wrote: »

I ran flat out for mine for Cork, suffered on the long run next day but put it down to a glycogen depletion exercise.

Ditto, did the Warriors Run yesterday as hard as I could and a 17 mile LSR today. Suffering now but hoping it'll be worth in in Berlin in 4 weeks.