Dublin Marathon 2011 'improvers' thread

brophya2007

Ok if i put my name into the hat?

Ran DCM last year in 4:26 and would love to go Sub 4.

I know i'm going to have to up the mileage, thinking of following HH Intermediate I training program.

Also if there is anyone in Limerick aiming for the same time that wants to meet up for weekend LSRs PM away.

Andrew

Tetney

Corkie
Similar story for me too. Running Cork again this year after 3.56 last year (my first marathon).

10k last year was 46.15m. This year down to 43.25m.

My long runs are between 8.45 and 9.00 pace. e.g 12 miles at 8.30 pace. 18 miles at 9.00 pace. I wouldnt be the best trainer in the world and am probably shy a few long runs

Still not sure in my head if i should push for 3.30 or target 3.45 and look at 3.30 for Dublin later in the year. I am siding with 3.45 with a hope that the pace makers will be a bit ahead of themselves (assuming there are 15min interval pacers??)

I am thinking the weather cant be as bad as last year which should speed me up a little and my IT band hasnt troubled me (yet) during training which it did last year

Any advise greatly appreciated!! Is Dublin a quicker route than the revised Cork route?

mush500

Hi guys thought I might get on this too. Ran my first marathon in Canberra in May while in Australia and hoping to continue with DCM. Ran 4.55 in that and as it was my first didn't mind but think I could have done better. I think with a summer of training sub 4hr could be achievable, only 25 and have really gotten into running this year.

I followed HH novice plan fro canberra and was going to follow his intermediate II plan for DCM, was just wondering what people's thoughts are on this plan? I looked over P&D 55/18 week plan and looked a little bit much for me at this stage.

RayCun

How much running are you doing at the moment, mush?

mush500

Only did the marathon on april 10th so have been resting since but started running gently last week. Hoping to start training to a plan in july and just keep up some short tuns 3-5 miles until then.

Corkie100

Tetney wrote: »

Corkie

Still not sure in my head if i should push for 3.30 or target 3.45 and look at 3.30 for Dublin later in the year. I am siding with 3.45 with a hope that the pace makers will be a bit ahead of themselves (assuming there are 15min interval pacers??)

I'm exactly the same! Problem with Cork is you just don't know what the weather will throw at you, so it's difficult to make a solid plan. In Dublin, I stayed with the 3.45 pacers for a while and then pushed on after about 5 or 6 miles and it was perfect- hadn't gone out too fast, felt under no pressure and knew they were somewhere behind should i start to drift off the pace, ended up coming in under 3.40. So maybe a similar strategy for both of us in Cork? Avoid the pressure of the 3.30 pacers but use the 3.45s to settle in? Even for a mile or 2? There are pacers for 3.45 as far as I know. I've had a couple of minor setbacks this past week (not injury but minor illness) so not feeling very optimistic at the moment! However, I know i have the miles done so it's just a matter of setting a loose realistic target!

Tetney

Might be a plan. Having followed the 4hr pacers last year i might find it hard to break away from the pacers too soon. I found them a great help last year as i ran back out of the city between 16m and 20m. Once i got to the last relay changeover i felt fine as i had ran that leg last year and knew what lay ahead of me. I might stay with the 3.45 pacers till i get through the tunnel and up to Mahon and see how i feel then.

Based on your times and the fact you are doing speed work you shouldnt have any problems with pace work at 8m pace. What distance are your PMP runs? Could be in the head. Focus on the PMP run as a means to an end and dont think that you have to run that pace for 26.2miles every time you do a PMP run. You should crack the 3.30 this year. I do most of my running on my own and sometimes feel i run too fast and have to tell myself to run slower then PMP.

Did you find Dublin easier then Cork last year or where you just better prepared?

Oisin11178

Tetney wrote: »

Might be a plan. Having followed the 4hr pacers last year i might find it hard to break away from the pacers too soon. I found them a great help last year as i ran back out of the city between 16m and 20m. Once i got to the last relay changeover i felt fine as i had ran that leg last year and knew what lay ahead of me. I might stay with the 3.45 pacers till i get through the tunnel and up to Mahon and see how i feel then.

Based on your times and the fact you are doing speed work you shouldnt have any problems with pace work at 8m pace. What distance are your PMP runs? Could be in the head. Focus on the PMP run as a means to an end and dont think that you have to run that pace for 26.2miles every time you do a PMP run. You should crack the 3.30 this year. I do most of my running on my own and sometimes feel i run too fast and have to tell myself to run slower then PMP.

Did you find Dublin easier then Cork last year or where you just better prepared?

Im meant to be pacing 3.45 this year in cork so will probably see you guys down there:D

Woddle

Just thought I'd mention it's 24 weeks to DM from Monday coming for those going with a longer program.

Tetney

and 24 days to the Cork Marathon. Nearly time to wind down the programme!! :rolleyes:

Oisin11178

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Im meant to be pacing 3.45 this year in cork so will probably see you guys down there:D

3.30 now, better class of person the faster you get haha:D

aficionado

Thanks guys. I'll have a look at those plans and see what way they work this run into the program. My own training plan is going to be heavily tailored due to other activities and I still have to work that out and see how it's all going to fit in!!

I'm not an improver as such, but aiming for sub 3:15 should I come out of the tri season in one piece so I'll be dipping in here and in the novice thread.

Similar situation myself to BetterThanHoyte
Did my first in Conn, aiming for 3.15 in DCM,
Doing my first tri in Dublin 31st August then Im thinking straight into a P&D type program,
That only leaves me with 8 weeks training though with no recovery after the tri,
Is this asking too much?

itsalltrue

itsalltrue wrote: »

Completed the DCM 2010 in 3:57 so i'm planning on pushing for 3:30. I think it might be a bit ambitious but its my goal for the year.

I'm feeling much fitter this year and ran a 10k in 42 mins 2 weeks ago and a forest/road race 5miles in 32.38 so my times are much quicker than this time last year.

In training for the Kildare half so i'm hoping to get close to 1:32/1:34.

Completed the Kildare half in 1:34.22 yesterday so its a new PB. Was really really bad the night before with headaches and stomach pain, even on the morning of the race my stomach was bad. So i'm delighted with that time but i hope to improve it for the Dublin half in September.

After that i know think that a 3:25/3:30 is on the cards

Marthastew

itsalltrue wrote: »

Completed the Kildare half in 1:34.22 yesterday so its a new PB. Was really really bad the night before with headaches and stomach pain, even on the morning of the race my stomach was bad. So i'm delighted with that time but i hope to improve it for the Dublin half in September.

After that i know think that a 3:25/3:30 is on the cards

Congratulations, fantastic PB... Stay strong over the summer and sub 3.30 is on the cards for you in Dublin.

Marthastew

That age old question... How do I run a faster marathon?
I'll join in here if that's ok.

Background

I'm a 45year old female heading into my 6th marathon, Berlin this year. I started running 3years ago when I was persuaded to do a sprint triathlon. Like most people I loved the bike and the run but am a very poor swimmer so after a few (thoroughly enjoyable) triathlons I decided to concentrate on running. I completed DCM 2008 my first marathon, just six months after I started running and was lucky enough to finish in3.56 and with minor ITB problems. Since then i've run Chicago 09; 3.45 which qualified me for Boston 2010 which I ran in 3.47. DCM 2010 is my PB at 3.41 ( it was a day for PBs I think, perfect day) and I've just completed Paris in 3.47, I was hoping to beat my DCM time there but the heat was very tough.


I'm hoping to get some advice from you all....

What's the best way for me to improve my time over the next few months?
I run on my own in the mornings when the kids are at school and have therefore not really been doing any interval training, I lack the motivation on my own. I love the LSRs and have no problem recovering from them. I'm a member of a gym and I usually do a few conditioning classes plus on or two cardio ones a week.

My main two questions are
1. Do I need to introduce interval training (I'm guessing definitely yes) and if so, any tips to simplify it?
2. I'm assuming (and I could be wrong as it's not in any of the plans I've loosely followed) that the classes are adding to my overall fitness and therefore speed, is this correct?

Any advice gratefully received...

menoscemo

Hey Martha, I'm no expert but what I am doing is following an intense 5k/10k training programme before embarking on a marathon Programme. This is what a lot of Boards members have done (e.g Krusty Clown) and have managed to constantly reduce their marathon times as a result. Why not train for a 10k for the next 6-8 weeks then start your marathon programme. A lot of us are targetting the 10k in Dunshaughlin at the end of june.


The idea is if you bring down your 5k-10k speed, then your cruising (marathon) pace should also drop as a result.

P.S. to keep endurance up, I am keeping my weekend LSR's much longer than the 10k programmes perscribe and pacing a few marathons. Hopefullt hat will mean a 12 week marathon programme will be sufficient.

ecoli

Marthastew wrote: »

My main two questions are
1. Do I need to introduce interval training (I'm guessing definitely yes) and if so, any tips to simplify it?

Any advice gratefully received...

Intervals dont have to be anything fancy. You can get the same benefits from simplifying it by doing something like the following

warm up (very easy jog) 6 x 1 min easy, 1 min hard, cooldown (very easy jog)

You can introduce this once a week and build adding either extra reps (one week 6 two weeks later move to 7/8) or adding how long you are doing (start off at 1 min building to 2min, 3min)

Another type is tempo

This is simply increasing the pace to half marathon pace for a duration (roughly 20 min) as you get fitter you can go for longer.

These are just some simple tricks. Training doesnt have to be overly complicated and many old school runners believe you are better off keeping things simple and just getting the miles in

RubyK

What training plan to follow - DCM '11
I think it's close enough now to start thinking about what training plan I should go with for DCM '11, so I'm looking for some advice on what one to follow. I'm hoping to go sub 3.45.

I loosely followed Hal Higdons Novice 2 plan, which got me a 3.59.19 finish in DCM '10. Currently, I'm running 30-35 mpw.

Any advice would be appreciated

menoscemo

RubyK wrote: »

What training plan to follow - DCM '11
I think it's close enough now to start thinking about what training plan I should go with for DCM '11, so I'm looking for some advice on what one to follow. I'm hoping to go sub 3.45.

I loosely followed Hal Higdons Novice 2 plan, which got me a 3.59.19 finish in DCM '10. Currently, I'm running 30-35 mpw.

Any advice would be appreciated

I'd Highly recommed P&D's 35-55 mpw week plan. Sounds like you'll fit straight into it like a glove. I highly recommend buying the book as well as it really describes very well the science of running and the reasoning behind all the runs.

RubyK

Thanks for that meno, I'll have a look on amazon for it.

RayCun

I'll be using P&D <55 to plan my weekend, slower runs. Midweek I'll have two club sessions, which should cover the faster running, and two recovery runs.

menoscemo

RubyK wrote: »

Thanks for that meno, I'll have a look on amazon for it.

This is it
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Marathoning-Peter-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
I'll be down in wexford pacing the Half on Sunday if you need a lend if it? Dunno if you're doing that race?

RubyK

That's very kind of you meno, thanks very much, but I've just ordered it online. Thanks again

Corkie100

Hi All,
hope it's still ok to use this thread for q's about cork city marathon, I know there's a separate thread for that, but i've come across posts here from runners who seem to be at a v similar level to myself so I'm using the thread as a general 'marathon improvers' thread rather than just for DCM (although that will hopefully be my next target after Cork).
Anyway.... Taper time. Any tips? I feel I always make a mess of this part. Basically, it's 2 weeks to go. I did my 22 miler last weekend (3 weeks out from mara), ran 4 days rather than 5 this past week, still did my track work, an 8 mile PMP and a 16 mile LSR. Just wondering, where exactly should the reduction happen in the next week? Obviously shorter long run, but is it better to take more complete days rest, or keep running 5 days at lower intensity and with less mileage? Will a bit of speed work keep the edge in me? My long run yesterday was, I have to admit, an absolute disaster, but am ignoring it (stomach cramps, sore throat, bad weather) as I am injury free and delighted to be so! However, it did chip away at my confidence a bit, so looking to regain that if possible between now and June 6th!
Many thanks in advance!

ecoli

Corkie100 wrote: »

Hi All,
hope it's still ok to use this thread for q's about cork city marathon, I know there's a separate thread for that, but i've come across posts here from runners who seem to be at a v similar level to myself so I'm using the thread as a general 'marathon improvers' thread rather than just for DCM (although that will hopefully be my next target after Cork).
Anyway.... Taper time. Any tips? I feel I always make a mess of this part. Basically, it's 2 weeks to go. I did my 22 miler last weekend (3 weeks out from mara), ran 4 days rather than 5 this past week, still did my track work, an 8 mile PMP and a 16 mile LSR. Just wondering, where exactly should the reduction happen in the next week? Obviously shorter long run, but is it better to take more complete days rest, or keep running 5 days at lower intensity and with less mileage? Will a bit of speed work keep the edge in me? My long run yesterday was, I have to admit, an absolute disaster, but am ignoring it (stomach cramps, sore throat, bad weather) as I am injury free and delighted to be so! However, it did chip away at my confidence a bit, so looking to regain that if possible between now and June 6th!
Many thanks in advance!

Second last week your best bet is to do a half effort of your usual week. Therefor same amount of days same types of sessions etc but just less. For example cut easy runs by mile or two cut reps in intervals by a rep or two and cut long run by few miles (more like 10 - 13 max depending on what you have been doing overall through your plan). The idea is to decrease the volume rather than the intensity. Many people see taper as a chance to shut down but you still need to keep your legs awake

pistol_75

Hi guys,

Did the marathon last year in 4:59 without a proper base and definitly not enough training. It was also my first year doing any sort of running. Have trained on over the winter and did a recent 10K in 48:26 and two 1/2 marathons in 10 days in 1:48:12 & 1:45:22 with a 14 mile LSR in between so am miles ahead of where I was last year already :rolleyes:

D.C.M is now 23 weeks ago so am now drawing my training plan for this and looking for some advice and time I should be aiming towards regarding training paces.

Bought the advance marathoning book 2 weeks ago and have looked at the plan for up to 55 miles per week so far.

Regarding time my initial goal at the start of the year was to go under 4:15 which then got revised to 4 but I am not thinking of aiming at 3:45 which is roundabout where McMillan has me at the moment.

Most programs are 18 weeks but my wife is due our first baby in early September so should I start a couple of weeks earlier to allow for this bearing in mind there will probably at least one or two weeks where things will be all over the place? Knowing that even if I wanted to at this stage it would not be wise to stop training completly?

Your thoughts please?

Woddle

pistol_75 wrote: »

Most programs are 18 weeks but my wife is due our first baby in early September so should I start a couple of weeks earlier to allow for this bearing in mind there will probably at least one or two weeks where things will be all over the place? Knowing that even if I wanted to at this stage it would not be wise to stop training completly?

Your thoughts please?

It can be difficult to get out with a new arrival, there will be a few missed days here and there but as long as it's not the main workouts I wouldn't be too worried. Try and get used to early morning runs when mammy and baby are still asleep and learn to live on little sleep
Nothing stopping you from getting out now and just building up the miles, it'll pay off.
I also wouldn't be overly concerned with goal times just yet, there'll be plenty of races along the way to give you an idea.

Woddle

Finished week 1 of 24 and it went well.
60ish km (37 miles) in total and will pretty much do the same runs for the next 5 weeks aswell.
1 x long and hilly
1 x mile reps
3 x easy

Has anyone else started yet?

Marthastew

menoscemo wrote: »

Hey Martha, I'm no expert but what I am doing is following an intense 5k/10k training programme before embarking on a marathon Programme. This is what a lot of Boards members have done (e.g Krusty Clown) and have managed to constantly reduce their marathon times as a result. Why not train for a 10k for the next 6-8 weeks then start your marathon programme. A lot of us are targetting the 10k in Dunshaughlin at the end of june.


The idea is if you bring down your 5k-10k speed, then your cruising (marathon) pace should also drop as a result.

P.S. to keep endurance up, I am keeping my weekend LSR's much longer than the 10k programmes perscribe and pacing a few marathons. Hopefullt hat will mean a 12 week marathon programme will be sufficient.

Thanks for that, training for a shorter distance is a great way of focussing. I've signed up for the docklands 8k to get my speed up a bit and I've also just ordered Advanced Marathoning as suggested above. I had two super 8k runs last week where I managed to keep my pace at 7.30min miles. I must sign up for the 5 and 10 miles in Phoenix park, I imagine they'll fill up fast this year.

Marthastew

ecoli wrote: »

Intervals dont have to be anything fancy. You can get the same benefits from simplifying it by doing something like the following

warm up (very easy jog) 6 x 1 min easy, 1 min hard, cooldown (very easy jog)

You can introduce this once a week and build adding either extra reps (one week 6 two weeks later move to 7/8) or adding how long you are doing (start off at 1 min building to 2min, 3min)

Another type is tempo

This is simply increasing the pace to half marathon pace for a duration (roughly 20 min) as you get fitter you

These are just some simple tricks. Training doesnt have to be overly complicated and many old school runners believe you are better off keeping things simple and just getting the miles in

Thanks for that, great way of simplifying interval and tempo training for me. Plus I also like the idea of classifying myself as an" old school runner"!:)