Weight watchers....to join, or go it alone?

Flurry

Hi,

Firstly, I hope this is in the correct forum...

I did WW before a few years ago, using the old points system, and it worked really well.

However...a few years and a (fair) few lbs later, and I feel I need to try it again.
I'm just wondering though, is the new Pro Points system a lot better, or should I just use the old info and books I have and use the old points system myself?

How are other people finding the new points system, better or worse? Better results?

Amtmann

Okay, I'll risk attack here to say that you should go it alone. WW actually failed you the first time. You regained some or much of your weight, as do 80-95% of WW customers eventually. Time to try something new so, no?

If you actually learn about nutrition rather than working out how many propoints are in an ice-cream, you'll do better (in my humble opinion).

whiteonion

Try low carb, once you go low carb you don't go back.

Flurry

Tremelo wrote: »

Okay, I'll risk attack here to say that you should go it alone. WW actually failed you the first time. You regained some or much of your weight, as do 80-95% of WW customers eventually. Time to try something new so, no?

If you actually learn about nutrition rather than working out how many propoints are in an ice-cream, you'll do better (in my humble opinion).

You might be right...
It was 6 years ago when I lost weight with WW and got to goal weight. Over the past 6 years though I have slowly put it back on...plus about 2 stone more!
I was quite good with WW the first time though. I wasn't one of those people who would waste points on take-aways and then starve for the rest of the week.
I would love to understand more about nutrition...but wouldn't be sure how to find out when I have eaten enough each day etc. I found the points system really handy as I knew exactly how many I had each day, so knew how much I could eat basically.

whiteonion wrote: »

Try low carb, once you go low carb you don't go back.

I would LOVE to try low carb....but just have no confidence to try it. I know it sounds silly, but I wouldn't have a clue what to have for lunch other than a sandwich or bagel.
I have this (probably stupid) idea in my head that I would be completely hungry on low-carb...and fail straight away.

Do you know of any good online resources and give info on low-carb diets, like alternatives to carb filled foods?

Cutting down on carbs might be a good place for me to start really, as I tend to have a sandwich for lunch every day, and sometimes toast in the morning too.

bulmersgal

the new pro points is more about nutrition your dont go on the kcal and fat in food anymore, its based on protein, carbs and fat. Also fruit now has no points. I'm a yo-yo ww fan but finding this plan a lot easier as its easier to have stuff like fruit without feeling deprived and on a diet. Also if you eat better fresh food they cost a lot less points then a ready meal. Give it a go what have you got to lose, its worked for you before. I cant do it at home as I need to go to a meeting to be motivated otherwise I wouldn't care if the scales went up a little

Amtmann

bulmersgal wrote: »

its worked for you before.

It did not work for them before. They regained all the weight plus an additional two stone.

Birdie086

Hi flurry,
I too lost weight years ago with ww, and i January this year I rejoined, also two stone heavier than the first time I joined.
However, I have found it really difficult and the subliminal messages at meetings eg 'you can't do it alone you need a meeting', and 'get to gold so everytime you come you dont need pay the joining fee', have just fecked up me head.
Anyway over the last few weeks I have been reading the forums around here and have decided that I would rather educate myself regards foods, and gof rom there.
Bascially the tenner a week spent on meetings will go towards extra fruit and veg, I will be removing as much processed foods as possible from my food intake.
One thing I will keep form ww, is having my own weigh in just once a week, adn keeping an honest food diary.
I hope you find a plan that works for you, I feel I am only starting out, even though I lost a stone since January

harr

Hi
I just went back to ww last night after 3 years,the last time i was in ww i lost 5 stone and kept that off for over 2 year but i have slowly started to gain again through my own fault.
looking at the new pro points it does look a lot healthier then the old points system and with fruit now free points.i now have 44 pro points to use daily and the added advantage of 49 free point to use per week.I find ww does work but you need to stick with the healthy life style once you louse the weight.

patsieob

Hi, I have just joined thread also. I was hoping to make a new start today by joining either weight watchers or unislim. Have never been successful with any of them but was hoping from some motivation from this Board. I think I will try and go it alone after reading this thread. Wish me luck.

Monife

harr wrote: »

Hi
I just went back to ww last night after 3 years,the last time i was in ww i lost 5 stone and kept that off for over 2 year but i have slowly started to gain again through my own fault.
looking at the new pro points it does look a lot healthier then the old points system and with fruit now free points.i now have 44 pro points to use daily and the added advantage of 49 free point to use per week.I find ww does work but you need to stick with the healthy life style once you louse the weight.

+1.

Losing weight needs to be a long term, lifestyle change. You have to sincerely WANT to lose the weight and WANT to keep it off. It is very easy to have the mindset, "Ah sure i'll get to goal and then I can eat what I like". That will just get you back to square one. You need to want to change your life and eating habits, forever.

I think any plan would work, once you felt you could stick with it in the longterm.

I find WW a good starting base, especially with the new plan. For me, I wouldn't have been able to start losing weight (3 stone 1lb gone so far since November, another 5 stone 7lb to go) because I wasn't clued up about nutrition or portion sizes. I also find the meeting does instill motivation in me and also getting weighed every week, I know, for myself, if I was doing it at home, I would have given up by now.

The new plan is great. Fruit and veg is 0 points and all the "bad" stuff (like crisps, bread, alcohol, fizzy drinks, processed carbs etc) are seriously high in points. You also have the added safety net of weekly bonus points for unplanned events like dinner out or a bottle of wine and don't have to save your points anymore.

I think only you can decide what weightloss plan is best for you.

Flurry

Monife wrote: »

+1.

Losing weight needs to be a long term, lifestyle change. You have to sincerely WANT to lose the weight and WANT to keep it off. It is very easy to have the mindset, "Ah sure i'll get to goal and then I can eat what I like". That will just get you back to square one. You need to want to change your life and eating habits, forever.

I think any plan would work, once you felt you could stick with it in the longterm.

I find WW a good starting base, especially with the new plan. For me, I wouldn't have been able to start losing weight (3 stone 1lb gone so far since November, another 5 stone 7lb to go) because I wasn't clued up about nutrition or portion sizes. I also find the meeting does instill motivation in me and also getting weighed every week, I know, for myself, if I was doing it at home, I would have given up by now.

The new plan is great. Fruit and veg is 0 points and all the "bad" stuff (like crisps, bread, alcohol, fizzy drinks, processed carbs etc) are seriously high in points. You also have the added safety net of weekly bonus points for unplanned events like dinner out or a bottle of wine and don't have to save your points anymore.

I think only you can decide what weightloss plan is best for you.

Hi,

Thanks for all your replies.

I initially was hoping to give the low card / high protein idea a go....BUT...have opted to try WW again.
I joined on Tuesday, and am determined to make all these changes for life. I have also joined an exercise class, bringing me from 0 exercise to two ridiculously intense hours of exercise a week (1 hr twice a wk). I'm also gonna start walking or (hopefully!) jogging on one of the other days too.

I'm feeling great about it so far!

I'm going to pop over to the WW thread now, to find out the points for some stuff, as the points system has totally changed (for the better). It's great that carbs are taken into consideration now.

Thanks again!

Amtmann

*sigh*

Good luck anyway. You'll need it.

misslt

Tremelo wrote: »

*sigh*

Good luck anyway. You'll need it.

In fairness, it's not the WW plan that makes people put weight back on when they're finished it, its the person themselves. If someone doesn't want to work at keeping weight off then they won't, regardless of how they lost it in the first place!!

If the plan helps someone lose weight then it works for them - it's up to the individual if they do or don't put it back on when theyre finished!

Amtmann

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Short-term thinking at its best. The plan does not work for the vast majority of people on it. The facts prove this.

Sure, you'll lose weight on it. And then, like 80-95% of WW clients, you'll pile it on again just like the OP did.

Any good fat-loss programme works for life, for the maintenance as well as for the loss phase. Clearly, WW does not.

Why is this? It's because WW, as a SUSTAINABLE weight control plan, is an abysmal failure. Low fat ice-cream and low-fat pizzas, weekly points to eat junk, jellies and beer, high points for nutritious, filling, high fat foods. All wrong, all unsustainable, and the statistics prove it. Who will count points for the rest of their lives?

I'm not going to get into it any further. I sincerely wish the OP and everyone on WW well, and I genuinely hope they lose excess weight and MAINTAIN a healthy weight thereafter. The odds are quite clearly stacked against them though.

Monife

misslt wrote: »

In fairness, it's not the WW plan that makes people put weight back on when they're finished it, its the person themselves. If someone doesn't want to work at keeping weight off then they won't, regardless of how they lost it in the first place!!

If the plan helps someone lose weight then it works for them - it's up to the individual if they do or don't put it back on when theyre finished!

HUGE +1.

That's what I was trying to get accross in my post but you summed it up brilliantly.

Flurry

Sorry for causing an argument on this thread!!!

I see your point exactly Tremelo...but I am going to START off by doing WW to shift the first few pounds (hopefully). Then, when exams and college are over for good at the end of May I am going to try to still stick to points, but cut out all processed foods and up my protein intake while cutting back on carbs. I'm hoping the new WW points system will be a step towards this.

Thanks for all the replies and different views

Lets hope I can lose the weight...and keep it off this time...

Amtmann

Flurry wrote: »

Then, when exams and college are over for good at the end of May I am going to try to still stick to points, but cut out all processed foods and up my protein intake while cutting back on carbs.

That sounds like a plan

Just remember, the body can typically only metabolise 30g of protein per meal. So eating more than this per meal is ineffectual. The key thing is fat. Fat + protein is a great combination. You'll get both from beef, chicken, pork, lamb, oily fish, nuts, flax, butter, and seeds. Once you avoid processed food and low fat food*, and once you derive your carbs from lots of fruit and veg, you're well on the road to long-term success and well-being.

*low fat food is just full of sugar which creates an insulin spike in your body causing you store fat and crave even more sugar.

misslt

Tremelo wrote: »

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Short-term thinking at its best. The plan does not work for the vast majority of people on it. The facts prove this.

Sure, you'll lose weight on it. And then, like 80-95% of WW clients, you'll pile it on again just like the OP did.

Any good fat-loss programme works for life, for the maintenance as well as for the loss phase. Clearly, WW does not.

Why is this? It's because WW, as a SUSTAINABLE weight control plan, is an abysmal failure. Low fat ice-cream and low-fat pizzas, weekly points to eat junk, jellies and beer, high points for nutritious, filling, high fat foods. All wrong, all unsustainable, and the statistics prove it. Who will count points for the rest of their lives?

I'm not going to get into it any further. I sincerely wish the OP and everyone on WW well, and I genuinely hope they lose excess weight and MAINTAIN a healthy weight thereafter. The odds are quite clearly stacked against them though.

Not necessarily.

What I try to do is maximise my points, get as much food for as little points that will fill me, and that leads me to eating more healthy foods. I won't need to count points for the rest of my life because I'll know whats good for me, what fills me, what doesn't - and using points in WW is a great way of learning what is what.

I don't intend to follow WW for the rest of my life, as I've said in another thread here, I'm using it as a starting point, as a way of learning how to eat healthily.

It's probably safe to say that there aren't a lot of people in Ireland at the moment that are clued in about whats healthy, whats not - granted its getting better but I know, and I know I'm not the only one, that until very recently I hadn't a clue how to eat well.

If someone is only using WW as a quick fix to shift weight and using their points for 'Low fat ice-cream and low-fat pizzas, weekly points to eat junk, jellies and beer' then of course it's not going to work long term for them!

All I'm saying is that the structure can be, and is for me anyway, a great way to start off changing your diet for the better.

Your attitude towards it, by the way, is very unfair to people who might want to try it. You never know, it might work very well for them whereas a low carb or something else might not.

Amtmann

misslt wrote: »

Not necessarily.

What I try to do is maximise my points, get as much food for as little points that will fill me, and that leads me to eating more healthy foods. I won't need to count points for the rest of my life because I'll know whats good for me, what fills me, what doesn't - and using points in WW is a great way of learning what is what.

I don't intend to follow WW for the rest of my life, as I've said in another thread here, I'm using it as a starting point, as a way of learning how to eat healthily.

All I can say is that this is a sensible and admirable intention.

If someone is only using WW as a quick fix to shift weight and using their points for 'Low fat ice-cream and low-fat pizzas, weekly points to eat junk, jellies and beer' then of course it's not going to work long term for them!

True, and the reason I said that is because the WW thread at the top of this forum is full of posts made by people who do just that.

Your attitude towards it, by the way, is very unfair to people who might want to try it. You never know, it might work very well for them whereas a low carb or something else might not.

There is nothing "unfair" about pointing to the abysmally low long-term success rate of WW. Is it really unfair to say to someone, "fine, try it if you like, but you've a 90% chance of getting very fat again afterwards". It might not be gentle or sensitive, but again, the facts speak for themselves. I happen to think that life is too short to be on a never-ending weight-loss/weight-gain roller coaster.

harr

i for one know ww helped me no end when i started my weight loss, with out it i would have no clue on healthy eating a part from the basics facts.i lost 5 stone in about 6 months and kept going to meetings for a year to help me maintain my weight.I kept this weight off for over 3 years and its my own fault i put some of it back on not ww.I never counted points after i finished ww because i knew what to eat and what foods to avoid,its a simple formal to losing weight burn more calories than you eat but most people need that little bit of a helping hand and that is where ww does help a lot.The motivation for me was that some body else was weighing me every week, i know this might sound stupid to some but its what got me to work hard to lose the weight.
so i say everyone to there own way, if weightwatchers helps good and stick with it if not do something different.It helped me in the past so i dont see why it should not help me again.;)

misslt

Tremelo wrote: »

All I can say is that this is a sensible and admirable intention.

True, and the reason I said that is because the WW thread at the top of this forum is full of posts made by people who do just that.

There is nothing "unfair" about pointing to the abysmally low long-term success rate of WW. Is it really unfair to say to someone, "fine, try it if you like, but you've a 90% chance of getting very fat again afterwards". It might not be gentle or sensitive, but again, the facts speak for themselves. I happen to think that life is too short to be on a never-ending weight-loss/weight-gain roller coaster.

Thanks - and to the bit you edited all I will say is that if I'm back to where I am now then I have no-one to blame but myself.

Granted, there are people who do that but again that's not WW's fault!

Your somewhat blinkered attitude towards it is the bit that annoys me, have you tried it?

You're absolutely right, life is too short to be constantly battling against your weight but if you learn how do it properly then you should be okay. It's just in some cases WW is the way people want to learn how to do it.

Amtmann

misslt wrote: »

Your somewhat blinkered attitude towards it is the bit that annoys me, have you tried it?

"Blinkered"? Facts misslt, facts. Always follow the facts. Abysmally low long-term success rates. Why do I need to say more?

Of course I haven't tried WW. Why would I a) pay someone money for something that I can do myself and b) pay to do something that has an abysmally low success rate? Heck, does a day go by without someone posting on the WW thread about gaining while on the programme or about re-joining WW for the second or third time? Even the people who've said it works for them (such as the last poster) had to rejoin because they regained weight. They didn't count the points. Just as I asked above, who will count points for the rest of their lives?

I'll tell you one thing though. I have plenty of cousins and aunts and uncles who have been on, or are on, or who have rejoined WW over the course of years. Not a single one of them has a healthy BMI, or has maintained a healthy BMI for 2 years post WW.

If you are one of the 10% who somehow manages to make WW work for you for years and years of weight maintenance, then I commend you. Don't ignore the other 90% though. They're the majority.

misslt

Tremelo wrote: »

"Blinkered"? Facts misslt, facts. Always follow the facts. Abysmally low long-term success rates. Why do I need to say more?

Of course I haven't tried WW. Why would I a) pay someone money for something that I can do myself and b) pay to do something that has an abysmally low success rate? Heck, does a day go by without someone posting on the WW thread about gaining while on the programme or about re-joining WW for the second or third time? Even the people who've said it works for them (such as the last poster) had to rejoin because they regained weight. They didn't count the points. Just as I asked above, who will count points for the rest of their lives?

I'll tell you one thing though. I have plenty of cousins and aunts and uncles who have been on, or are on, or who have rejoined WW over the course of years. Not a single one of them has a healthy BMI, or has maintained a healthy BMI for 2 years post WW.

If you are one of the 10% who someone manages to make WW work for you for years and years of weight maintenance, then I commend you. Don't ignore the other 90% though. They're the majority.

Fair enough, and absolutely the majority has re-gained and then re-joined, but my point is that's their own fault, not the WeightWatchers plan.

It's a weight loss plan, not a maintenance plan - so the onus falls on the person to ensure they maintain their weight.

And yes I'm using the word blinkered because you appear to be very dismissive of it from the get go, instead of appreciating the fact that someone might want to use it to lose weight in the first place - the structure etc as I've said is a great starting point for someone wanting to do this.

I hope I'm one of the 10% and I intend to be - its completely up to me

Davei141

misslt wrote: »

Fair enough, and absolutely the majority has re-gained and then re-joined, but my point is that's their own fault, not the WeightWatchers plan.

It's a weight loss plan, not a maintenance plan - so the onus falls on the person to ensure they maintain their weight.

And yes I'm using the word blinkered because you appear to be very dismissive of it from the get go, instead of appreciating the fact that someone might want to use it to lose weight in the first place - the structure etc as I've said is a great starting point for someone wanting to do this.

I hope I'm one of the 10% and I intend to be - its completely up to me

Read over your own post, you probably don't realize it but you summed up exactly why WW is a load of rubbish.

10% success rate, how could it possibly fail...

misslt

They're two separate points.

Weight watchers, as far as I know, doesn't claim to be a maintenance plan, and I wouldn't use it as a maintenance plan.

If someone uses WW to LOSE weight then it's done its job.

If they leave WW and regain weight then that's their own fault.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not maintenance, but it can and does help people to lose weight. It has nothing to do with keeping it off, if a person reaches goal and stops following it.

Each to their own, if it helps me lose weight then I'm happy with it.

Amtmann

misslt wrote: »

It's a weight loss plan, not a maintenance plan - so the onus falls on the person to ensure they maintain their weight.

That is why it's not a good plan. Losing weight is actually the easy part. A good weight plan makes a lifelong lifestyle change sustainable. Which is why I recommended the primal blueprint to the OP, who actually tried WW and is now the net total of 28lbs heavier after it.

And yes I'm using the word blinkered because you appear to be very dismissive of it from the get go

Not from the get go. I dismiss NOTHING from the get go. I base all my judgments on facts and statistics. A 90% failure rate will certainly cause me to dismiss something though, I'll give you that.

instead of appreciating the fact that someone might want to use it to lose weight in the first place - the structure etc as I've said is a great starting point for someone wanting to do this.

They might want to. But here's the thing: knowing, as we do, that most people regain the weight, and knowing, as we do, that there are OTHER weight loss options available that have far greater success rates, then why would anyone go with the weaker option?

If you can lose weight with two plans, but only maintain a healthy weight with one of the two, then why on earth would you chose the one with the catastrophic failure rate?

Anyway, look, the OP asked for opinions, and I gave him one. Mine was based on the cold hard facts of WW's failure rate, not on prejudice or blinkeredness. I suggested the Primal Blueprint, which is demonstrably marvelous. The OP has opted to go for the one with the epic failure rate. I mean that's what it comes down to. Sure, I believe that the OP will lose weight on WW. However, I'm also 90% sure that he/she will also regain it, despite best intentions. It's what the statistics point to. Why bother losing it in the first place if that's the likely outcome? Far better to lose it and keep it off by doing something that actually works long-term, and which doesn't result in a lifelong guilt-complex about food.

I hope I'm one of the 10% and I intend to be - its completely up to me

I HONESTLY hope you are too. But if for any reason you find yourself failing on WW, do not blame yourself. Blame the programme. And then try a better programme

harr

Tremelo wrote: »

"Blinkered"? Facts misslt, facts. Always follow the facts. Abysmally low long-term success rates. Why do I need to say more?

Of course I haven't tried WW. Why would I a) pay someone money for something that I can do myself and b) pay to do something that has an abysmally low success rate? Heck, does a day go by without someone posting on the WW thread about gaining while on the programme or about re-joining WW for the second or third time? Even the people who've said it works for them (such as the last poster) had to rejoin because they regained weight. They didn't count the points. Just as I asked above, who will count points for the rest of their lives?

I'll tell you one thing though. I have plenty of cousins and aunts and uncles who have been on, or are on, or who have rejoined WW over the course of years. Not a single one of them has a healthy BMI, or has maintained a healthy BMI for 2 years post WW.

If you are one of the 10% who someone manages to make WW work for you for years and years of weight maintenance, then I commend you. Don't ignore the other 90% though. They're the majority.

i regained weight because i was stupid in what i was eating and i knew my diet was wrong,i did stop counting points because there was no way i was going to be counting points for the rest of my life its not practical.
i look at a ww meeting like a AA or gamblers anonymous meeting some people have a problem with over eating and they need some support a person attending a AA meeting knows drinking will kill them the same way as an over eater will die early from various health issues,its very hard for someone who can control there eating to under stand this concept.
I know ww is a business is there just for financial gain but even if only 10% of people keep the weight off is this not a good thing?i kept my weight off for 3 years and due to health matters last year had to stop training this is when my weight crept back up.
Dont knock people because they want to try to get healthy at least they are getting off there arse and trying, criticise the people who refuse to even try and do something about there weight.

Amtmann

harr wrote: »

i regained weight because i was stupid in what i was eating and i knew my diet was wrong,i did stop counting points because there was no way i was going to be counting points for the rest of my life its not practical.

Eureka!

i look at a ww meeting like a AA or gamblers anonymous meeting some people have a problem with over eating and they need some support a person attending a AA meeting knows drinking will kill them the same way as an over eater will die early from various health issues,its very hard for someone who can control there eating to under stand this concept.

I was obese at one point too, so I know what it's like. I was addicted to sugar and was ignorant about nutrition. WW would not have helped me with either of those problems.

I know ww is a business is there just for financial gain but even if only 10% of people keep the weight off is this not a good thing?

On the contrary, it's a disaster for the other 90% who part with their money.

i kept my weight off for 3 years and due to health matters last year had to stop training this is when my weight crept back up.

But you said above it crept back up in part because you stopped counting points.

Dont knock people because they want to try to get healthy at least they are getting off there arse and trying, criticise the people who refuse to even try and do something about there weight.

I'm not knocking anyone. I'm simply pointing out that most people who do WW are fat again within 36 months. You would think this would be a helpful thing to point out to those looking to lose weight. There's too much heart and not enough head at play here it seems.

Davei141

Its very irritating also knowing the abysmal success rate they always jump out of the WW megathread to recruit in droves yet are never seen on any thread with proper advice.

harr

Tremelo wrote: »

Eureka!



I was obese at one point too, so I know what it's like. I was addicted to sugar and was ignorant about nutrition. WW would not have helped me with either of those problems.



On the contrary, it's a disaster for the other 90% who part with their money.



But you said above it crept back up in part because you stopped counting points.




I'm not knocking anyone. I'm simply pointing out that most people who do WW are fat again within 36 months. You would think this would be a helpful thing to point out to those looking to lose weight. There's too much heart and not enough head at play here it seems.

I know where you are coming from but people need to start some where and its there own fault if they don't use ww as a stepping stone to learning more about nutrition and what food they put into there body's,i stopped counting points because i did not need to count any more as i knew what foods were good and bad for me.
I was a year counting points while i was tending ww,but i still managed to stay slim and healthy for nearly 3 years without counting points.The main reason i put on weight on was me acting stupid with food and not been able to use the gym.

harr

Davei141 wrote: »

Its very irritating also knowing the abysmal success rate they always jump out of the WW megathread to recruit in droves yet are never seen on any thread with proper advice.

i did go to other threads looking for and got great advice on my diet and i kept a food diary until i was not allowed to any more,but i do need the support i get from my ww meetings.