Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

Mr Slow

Have you had gait analysis? If you're in the wrong runners you're asking for trouble.

tHE vAGGABOND

I would say no point in taking a step back on the mileage as the extra mileage will stand to you come race day

That is sort of what I was thinking too, thanks mate

I just have to be smart and adapt a training plan to suit me

PDCAT

Went to a highly recommended Physio in Carlow. Told me i had Medial Tibbia Stress Sydrome. Three weeks in January using Cross Trainer and then eased back into the running building up slowly from LSR of 5 miles back to 12 miles.

He recommended changing my runner to Spirra runners. Supposed to provide more protection (spring under the heels i believe). Also recommend that i do some Strengtheing exercises. I normally do these about 3/4 times each day (take about five minutes each time).

If it doesn't clear up in the next week or so, i may go to another recommended physio and get another opinion.

ecoli

PDCAT wrote: »

Went to a highly recommended Physio in Carlow. Told me i had Medial Tibbia Stress Sydrome. Three weeks in January using Cross Trainer and then eased back into the running building up slowly from LSR of 5 miles back to 12 miles.

He recommended changing my runner to Spirra runners. Supposed to provide more protection (spring under the heels i believe). Also recommend that i do some Strengtheing exercises. I normally do these about 3/4 times each day (take about five minutes each time).

If it doesn't clear up in the next week or so, i may go to another recommended physio and get another opinion.

If you are talking about Geoghegan there is no better man for fixing you up. Other than this some other options is rotate your runs (2 on road one week/ one treadmill next week switch round)

Best of luck with the recovery

PDCAT

ecoli wrote: »

If you are talking about Geoghegan there is no better man for fixing you up. Other than this some other options is rotate your runs (2 on road one week/ one treadmill next week switch round)

Best of luck with the recovery

Thanks Ecoli

Yeah, it was himself, very good physio, really knows his stuff, diagnosed the problem within five minutes and got me back running within 2/3 weeks. Will luck into rotating the run's a bit. May also look at running on grass maybe odd time for a change.

Bought a garmin 5 minutes ago from Amazon (god i must be serious).

gerico

Hi All.

I'm planning on running DCM 11 as my third marathon. first was in Barcelona '10 in 4' 22" where i made almost every mistake in the book, as I had finished with gaa/ soccer at 38 and started running with more purpose. I'm amazed now at how naive some of the mistakes I made were.
Dublin 2010 was 3' 55" but I have come to realise that I never pushed myself in training as self preservation always seemed to kick in.
However I have upped my training since January and run comfortably at 8' pmp up to about 13mi. I recently completed the limerick half in 1 45" despite starting too fast.
Anyway my dilemma now is what plan to train with, does anyone rate the program for 3.00 - 4.15 on the official Dublin site http://dublinmarathon.ie/dublinmarathontraining.pdf

I was 40 recently so I would like to break 3.30 or near as possible to mark the occasion. I plan to run 5 times per week with a core session thrown in also.

Any contributions welcome on a training plan/ general advise and also on a good improver's book
Thanks

RayCun

gerico wrote: »

Anyway my dilemma now is what plan to train with, does anyone rate the program for 3.00 - 4.15 on the official Dublin site http://dublinmarathon.ie/dublinmarathontraining.pdf

My problem with that program is 3.00 to 4.15 is a huge range - that plan looks much too hard for a 4.15 runner, but probably too easy for someone trying to break 3. (If you're going for 3.30 it might be perfect )

You should take a look at the Improvers thread

LaHaine

For the past two weeks I've done long slow runs of 18k, which would be a very long run for me. At this point am I better off trying to keep increasing distance or try to keep the same distance now and work on speed? Then I would wait to increase distance when I start my training plan in june.

Or would the long runs now be of more benefit?

curv

Hi All

After reading the Boards DCM threads over the past few years, but never actually ran the thing ! im giving it a go this year, First Marathon

I run occasionally but hoping to get out more consistently from here on in

To keep me motivated i have signed up to the following

- Sportsworld 5 mile
- The Race Series in the Park

& then the DCM in October

Looking forward to taking part in this thread, hoping to learn a few things

C

ecoli

LaHaine wrote: »

For the past two weeks I've done long slow runs of 18k, which would be a very long run for me. At this point am I better off trying to keep increasing distance or try to keep the same distance now and work on speed? Then I would wait to increase distance when I start my training plan in june.

Or would the long runs now be of more benefit?

Out of interest what does the rest of your week look like. What you could do is increase your mileage throughout the week not just on your LSR. The bigger gap between your LSR and the rest of your week is going to put your body through more stress. Your long run should only be between 20-25% of your overall weekly mileage max. If you plan to increase your mileage spread it out over the course of your week proportional to your LSR

Regarding the Speed v Distance argument I would say speed progression is a natural by product of distance. As you get stronger your easy runs will feel easier and as such your pace will get quicker naturally. Think of yourself as a car the more you build the engine up the more your speed will increase. Are you better to be a 1.1 trying to go top speed and risk blowing a gasket or building up to a 3 litre having the power to cope with the higher speeds

RayCun

Welcome to the thread curv.

Between now and the start of the training plan you should try to get some consistency into your running, getting out 3/4 times a week, so that the first week feels pretty easy.

bambera

Just thought I'd pop in and say hello (long time lurker around these parts) as I am also planning to do the DCM this year.

I haven't signed up for it yet as I am giving myself until the end of June to assess where I'm at and if I can realistically do it without over doing it.

I'm following one of the plans on the DCM website. The reason I've started already is to give myself extra weeks for building up the kms on the LSR (for instance I'd rather do 3 X 16km instead of 2 X 16km before moving up to a 19km)

Just wanted to say best of luck to everyone who's planning their first this year also.:)

coco7

Another lurker here and planning DCM as my first! A bit of background, I've been running for about 16 months now and have run a number of races last year, mainly 10k's but have 2 half marathons under my belt since then. I resisted the urge to go for DCM last year so hopefully the extra training this year will pay off in Oct.
In terms of times I finished the Connemara half last month in 1h52m and Raheny 5mile in 39 mins earlier this year. Averaging about 15-20 miles a week at the moment (3/4 runs per week) so will try to keep that up for the next few weeks (only constraint are my hols in mid June for 2 weeks).
Looking at the HH plans I might consider the novice 2 as it seems to start of with a bit more mileage but very open to suggestions from the experts! Well best of luck to all!

ger664

coco7

Whatever plan you use you should be able to comfortably do the first weeks mileage schedule and the Long Run. Making to big a jump in weekly mileage or LSR length is asking for trouble. You have a good solid running base already so between now and the end of June try to get your weekly mileage and LSR gradually up until they reach the level of your plans first week.

RayCun

coco7 wrote: »

Looking at the HH plans I might consider the novice 2 as it seems to start of with a bit more mileage but very open to suggestions from the experts! Well best of luck to all!

Hi coco, the main difference between the plans is in the midweek run - novice2 includes PMP runs while everything in novice1 is at an easy pace.
Novice2 does start with some higher mileage weeks though, so I agree with ger - try to get your weekly miles into the 20-25 range before you start the plan. Also, if you are taking a rest day after each run now, start running on consecutive days to be prepared for that aspect of the programme.

coco7

RayCun wrote: »

Hi coco, the main difference between the plans is in the midweek run - novice2 includes PMP runs while everything in novice1 is at an easy pace.
Novice2 does start with some higher mileage weeks though, so I agree with ger - try to get your weekly miles into the 20-25 range before you start the plan. Also, if you are taking a rest day after each run now, start running on consecutive days to be prepared for that aspect of the programme.

Cheers for the advice, have a bit of a cold this week but hopefully will be able to start putting this plan in action in a few days...

RHunce

Hi all, firstly please don't laugh or put me down but I have plans to do the Dublin marathon this October and break the 3hr 30 minute mark. Now I am currently 18 and will be 19 when running this race.

I understand it is quite a distance alright but I am quite fit already from other sports and have recently taken up 10k running myself. I am consistently running one mile every 6.40mins. I do know though this is over a much shorter distance than in a marathon.

What I struggle with though is over sweating when out road running. I do not have a bottle of water with me and tend to become very dehydrated which ultimately slows me down. I think this shouldn't be a problem though with the water check pts around the Dublin course.

Now having calculated the distance and the time I wish to run the marathon in I would have to be clocking 8 minute miles. I do feel this is achievable given my time at the moment as I can afford to bring it down to a nice jog for me. I have an extra 1.20 minutes to spare on my 10k time.

What I really want to know is it possible? With the right amount of training, to go from 10k's to 26.2 miles at my age? I know my uncle did it 15 years ago in 3.30 having literally never trained once and even stopped to answer natures call :pac: . Anyway any advice would be great. I also plan to do the Adidas series in the build up to it. Thanks

Pisco Sour

Whats your 10k PB?

RayCun

How many miles a week do you run, over how many sessions? What is the furthest distance you've run?

MaroonTam

RHunce,

I would say your goal is possible, yes.

I am making a few assumptions here (the others have asked pertinent questions which will help the advice you receive), one being that at 18-19 you are probably still in full time education and you will have exams to contend with over the coming months.

Running Training for a marathon is a big commitment time wise. You will need to be running 4-6 days a week (some even advocate 7). That can be hard when you have exams to study for.

If you can commit to the time, I would still advise you to wait until 2012 for your first Marathon.
Follow a good training plan right through the race series (up to Half Marathon) for 2011.
Train consistiently and get an established routine.
You will find the marathon a much more acheivable goal and you will be more likely to stick with running.

If you chose 2011, there will be plenty of advice and support on Boards, so stick with us

RHunce

04072511 wrote: »

Whats your 10k PB?

40 mins 49 secs

RayCun wrote: »

How many miles a week do you run, over how many sessions? What is the furthest distance you've run?

Having done it on and off for the passed year the most I have done is 24 miles in a week over 3 sessions due to other commitments such as GAA training and matches. I have my Leaving Cert this June as well but tbh running is an outlet to get away from that as the GAA is over until August. Furthest I have run to date is 9 miles and have done that quite comfortably, although I did stop once to tie my lace and catch a breath!

MaroonTam wrote: »

RHunce,

I would say your goal is possible, yes.

I am making a few assumptions here (the others have asked pertinent questions which will help the advice you receive), one being that at 18-19 you are probably still in full time education and you will have exams to contend with over the coming months.

Running Training for a marathon is a big commitment time wise. You will need to be running 4-6 days a week (some even advocate 7). That can be hard when you have exams to study for.

If you can commit to the time, I would still advise you to wait until 2012 for your first Marathon.
Follow a good training plan right through the race series (up to Half Marathon) for 2011.
Train consistiently and get an established routine.
You will find the marathon a much more acheivable goal and you will be more likely to stick with running.

If you chose 2011, there will be plenty of advice and support on Boards, so stick with us

Time is not a problem, I will be running solidly over my Leaving Cert as a break from books etc then after that I have the whole summer to build up my miles up until October. With only a few college hours in the first few weeks then I can remain training hard until October 31st!

I was planning on following this training session: http://dublinmarathon.ie/dublinmarathontraining.pdf using the 3.00 to 4.15 guide.

Thanks for your help so far

ger664

RHunce

With the proper training on your 10K time you should easily get the 3:30, but as this is your first marathon I would use Hals novice training plan (check 1st post), as any sub 3:30 plans are going to be tough on a first time marathoner. On the day just run and enjoy it and let the time take care of itself you have loads of time to train and run a faster one.

Your problem will lie with your GAA commitment as you will have 2 training days and weekend matches. If you want to do both just do the LSR and Medium long run from the plan. Make sure these runs are slow around 8min/mile pace should do, you will be doing enough hard work with the GAA. Once you get to Sept and the GAA is gone continue with the full plan.

Bally8

God this novice thread is turning out to be very daunting. When I was part of the one 2 years ago most people were aiming to get home in one piece or 4hrs 30 kind of times. This year so far a lot of ye want way faster times. Yikes for me:eek:

Nules10

Bally8 wrote: »

God this novice thread is turning out to be very daunting. When I was part of the one 2 years ago most people were aiming to get home in one piece or 4hrs 30 kind of times. This year so far a lot of ye want way faster times. Yikes for me:eek:

I am with you on this one bally8 I am just looking to finish in one piece. Glad to know i am not alone thinking there are some fast times mentioned in here. So yikes for me too

RayCun

Don't worry, there'll be plenty of people targeting slower times too.

tHE vAGGABOND

Im thinking one or two people have unrealistic expectations too tho [at least I hope so!]

Being able to run a shortish distance in a good time, does not necessarily translate too a very fast marathon, as we all know there is more to it then that

RHunce

That's what I'm thinking about my time but I'm going to trust the training that I will be doing and my current fitness levels.

I'll be delighted to finish but even happier with a 3.30

RayCun

There were a lot of questions in the last couple of year's threads about whether it was a good idea to race shorter distances during marathon training. I would say yes, for several reasons, but with one warning first -

If you race on the weekend, as a novice marathon runner, you are probably going to miss out on your long run. (Even a race midweek can throw that week's training off) That's alright if it's only happening now and again, and you're getting enough LSRs in to build to 20 during your training. But if you race too often, your training will suffer. How often is too often? My rule of thumb is to race only once a month.

But with that caveat, you should definitely go out and race during training -

Constant training can become a real grind, where you feel you're forcing yourself out for yet another long run. Racing is fun, it breaks the monotony of training, and can give you something to look forward to that's closer than the marathon.

Races are practice for the marathon. What do you wear? What do you eat? How will you get there? What do you need to carry? How will you feel? You can get some idea of this on training runs, but you'll learn more from lining up in a race.

How fast should you run in the marathon? What are your limits? You won't really find out from training, because on a training run you shouldn't be pushing yourself as far as you can go. And although you know you can run faster, does that mean 30 seconds faster? A minute faster? More? The best way to find out is to race shorter distances, and find your limits there. It's not a completely accurate predictor of how fast you can run a marathon, but it's the closest thing you have.

(I always plug my racing times into the McMillan Calculator. Last year, as long as I kept getting times that were 'equivalent' to a sub-4 marathon, I was confident I could do it on race day)

BrokenMan

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Im thinking one or two people have unrealistic expectations too tho [at least I hope so!]

Being able to run a shortish distance in a good time, does not necessarily translate too a very fast marathon, as we all know there is more to it then that

I'm thinking that myself lookign at soem of the times and its certainly something that happened to me, and others, last year.

RayCun do you think it would be worthwhile to try and do up somesort of table where people from last year or anyone for that matter could put in their 10K best, 1/2 marathon best, McMillan Predicted time, Goal time and Actual time, maybe with a column for a comment as well. It might help peopl eto set their targets 'better' if they see a good spread of real data from real people. In general it seems that the Mcmillan calculator is a bit optomistic for a first marathon.

RayCun

My race times from last year/McMillan predicted marathon time were
January Raheny 5 mile - 46.34 - 4.33.56
March - MSB 5k - 25.12 - 4.05.40
April - GIR 10k - 53.45 - 4.12
May - Sportsworld 5 mile - 39.59 - 3.55.12
(July - Irish Runner 5 was short, but I was faster than at Sportsworld)
August Frank Duffy 10 mile - 80.55 - 3.46.35
September Half Marathon - 1.48.34 - 3.48.58

My marathon time was 3.58.06
(The best predictor of my marathon time turned out to be doubling my half time and adding 10%)

Sub 4 was the fastest target I ever set, and getting under 40 in May made me more confident of that.

I think in all of my races last year I went out hoping that I'd be able to finish comfortably rather than race my fastest possible time. That was doubly true of the marathon. It is such a long distance, it's very hard to know how you're going to react to 15/20 miles at race pace. A lot of people blow up completely in the last ten miles - and when things go wrong in the marathon, they can go really badly wrong. You don't just miss your target, you miss it by an hour as you walk the last six miles in.

For your first marathon, you should seriously consider setting a slightly softer target and finishing strong. It makes such a difference at the end of the race to be the person who is finishing as fast they started (or even a bit faster) while everyone around you is falling away.