Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

rasher_m

RHunce wrote: »

Going for a ten miler now, going for seven minute miles. Hope it is not pushing it. Will let you all know how I get on.

Think you should join another thread...you sound like you're just trying to rub it in to the genuine novices on here.

rainbow kirby

offaly odonohue wrote: »

hey guys and girls,

I have decided to try and tackle a marathon.

My background is totally GAA but I enjoyed some long distance running when was at school (8 years ago). I had pretty bad knee injury last year, and made a pact with myself that if i got back playing fball i'd do a marathon... so here I am. I am back playing fball and knee is feeling great picked up couple of muscular niggles due to 12 month layoff but am feeling good

Have just read they first few posts and glanced through Higdon

I just took a notion on sat morn to begin my training and ran over 7 miles in round 50mins, some of joints bit sore this morn but rest of me is intact.
I am thinking that this kinda 'knee jerk' approach is frowned upon but this is my declaration and admission that i'm taking it seriously.

If any body has a recommened type of footwear (thinking asics gel cross trainers or something of that ilk) please drop a post, noticed a couple of blisters this morning

thanks in advance for all help and advice

N

If you're just coming back after a long-term injury layoff, when you haven't done much running in the past apart from GAA training, you are setting yourself up for a world of pain if you try to train for the Dublin marathon this year. You would be far better off building a consistent running base and entering some shorter races (5k-half marathon) before taking the step up.

Best footwear recommendation I can make is to go to a proper running store and get a gait analysis done. Different shoes will suit different people - what works for me might cause injury in someone else.

RHunce

rasher_m wrote: »

Think you should join another thread...you sound like you're just trying to rub it in to the genuine novices on here.

A novice is defined as the following

A person new to a field or activity; a beginner

Regardless of what times I want to be doing I could easily be picking up injuries by doing something incorrectly, by doing too many sessions in a week or I could be tiring myself out from other sports or study. This is where this thread comes in, for advice from people who have been doing this years. I appreciate any advice I can get greatly. I am not here to rub anything into others faces, only to achieve my goal of crossing the finishing line of the DCM in a time that I am happy with.

I was not able to do it in 1.10 today btw, it was 1.15.
Thank you.

sideswipe

rasher_m wrote: »

Think you should join another thread...you sound like you're just trying to rub it in to the genuine novices on here.

Think that maybe a little unfair, I think this is more a case of the over exuberance of youth!! Just read your log RHunce and I would say you seem to be in a big hurry! training for a marathon needs to include patience, as the saying goes.......it's a marathon not a sprint. Take your time, build up a good base and increase the miles slowly. Good luck.

rasher_m

sideswipe wrote: »

Think that maybe a little unfair, I think this is more a case of the over exuberance of youth!! Just read your log RHunce and I would say you seem to be in a big hurry! training for a marathon needs to include patience, as the saying goes.......it's a marathon not a sprint. Take your time, build up a good base and increase the miles slowly. Good luck.

Thats not supposed to be 'unfair', its more of a compliment than anything. The young fella is running faster and longer than any novice I know. He sounds like he would be at home with the intermediates. He may even have some competition there to pit his mileage and speed against :P

ger664

rasher_m wrote: »

Thats not supposed to be 'unfair', its more of a compliment than anything. The young fella is running faster and longer than any novice I know. He sounds like he would be at home with the intermediates. He may even have some competition there to pit his mileage and speed against :P

Just because he is fast does not make him a novice, esp as he may be making the classic mistake of running his runs at too fast a pace.

RHunce

Can you run a 10K race over the coming weeks so that we get an idea of roughly what your training paces should be.

offaly odonohue

rainbow kirby wrote: »

If you're just coming back after a long-term injury layoff, when you haven't done much running in the past apart from GAA training, you are setting yourself up for a world of pain if you try to train for the Dublin marathon this year. You would be far better off building a consistent running base and entering some shorter races (5k-half marathon) before taking the step up.

Best footwear recommendation I can make is to go to a proper running store and get a gait analysis done. Different shoes will suit different people - what works for me might cause injury in someone else.

Awh I havent really set a goal on this years DCM (just a marathon) guess I was little over enthuasiatic and just posted in this years thread:rolleyes:

Thanks for the info on the footwear

Would you recommend I post experiences and progress on a more general thread? and sure i can dip in and out of here see how other novices are fairing.

rasher_m

offaly odonohue wrote: »

Awh I havent really set a goal on this years DCM (just a marathon) guess I was little over enthuasiatic and just posted in this years thread:rolleyes:

Thanks for the info on the footwear

Would you recommend I post experiences and progress on a more general thread? and sure i can dip in and out of here see how other novices are fairing.

Or alternatively he could train for the race series...5 miles, 10 miles and half marathon and see how he is progressing and then gauge whether or not he should run DCM from that.

My father was a pure footballer and ran his first marathon without other experiences behind him, he also ran it in 3 hrs 20 mins so I wouldnt rule out a marathon for this guy.

He just needs to be careful and take it easy.

PhoenixParker

Been lurking on this forum on and off since I took up running in January.

Done a 5k, a 10k and am down for the Mini-marathon next week. Consistently running 20k a week at the moment, with one 10k and 2 - 3 other shorter runs. I'm slow. Very slow, about 7min km on a good day!

I'm not running the DCM, but I've signed up for the race series 5mile, 10mile and half marathon which I guess a few of you will be running along the way? I won't be contributing to this thread since I'm not running the marathon, but wouldn't mind tagging along on slower training sessions in the Phoenix Park over the summer.

Mr Slow

rasher_m wrote: »

My father was a pure footballer and ran his first marathon without other experiences behind him, he also ran it in 3 hrs 20 mins so I wouldnt rule out a marathon for this guy.

There are exceptions to every rule, best advice is to play it safe.

RHunce

That's the background I'm coming from as well. Just football.

I have a log myself now in here so if ye want to pop in and offer some advice I won't say no.

I'll locate a 10k which is close to me over the coming months and let ye know how I get on. Thanks.

rasher_m

RHunce wrote: »

That's the background I'm coming from as well. Just football.

I have a log myself now in here so if ye want to pop in and offer some advice I won't say no.

I'll locate a 10k which is close to me over the coming months and let ye know how I get on. Thanks.

You have your own log....ya must have been afraid of the big boys in intermediate

Seriously though....you should stick on this blog if you feel your training merits the novice tag...i dont think it does though.

Mr Slow

Ryan Hall ran 15 miles for his first run ever as a teenager, he's a natural. He was still a novice though, requiring guidance on how to achieve the best results from his training. We had someone last year who ran all his LSR's at 8 min miles and was a league apart from the rest of us, he did not have a good day at DCM!

BTH

mrslow wrote: »

We had someone last year who ran all his LSR's at 8 min miles and was a league apart from the rest of us, he did not have a good day at DCM!

What happened him on the day? Went out too fast? I'm actually doing my long runs slightly under 8min miles (7:40-7:55 depending). Would be interested to see where he felt he went wrong.

ecoli

Though not quite a story about a novice but principle the same I had an athlete who ran all his runs close to 7 min pace. He was able for it without breaking down but it was alot faster than he should have been (3.08 marathon runner).He had completed a few marathons at this stage but couldnt manage to get near the 3 hour mark.
In the 6 months building up to his next marathon I made sure he never went quicker than 7.30 and many of his easy runs were up as far as 8 min. Results? He went from a 3.08 runner to a 2.56 min runner in the space of 6 months. There are times in your training when you have to run fast and times when you dont. Every run has its own purpose and its own pace do it too slow or too quick and you are not getting the benefits your training plan is aiming for from each session. Your LSRs dont always have to be done at MP and will sometimes benefit more from the slower running

Mr Slow

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

What happened him on the day? Went out too fast? I'm actually doing my long runs slightly under 8min miles (7:40-7:55 depending). Would be interested to see where he felt he went wrong.

The guidelines would tell you to run 45 secs to 1 minute slower on your LSR's than your PMP and as ecoli says each run has a purpose. The person I was referring to had run everything at speed and the long runs are about time on your feet, getting the body used to the mental and physical demands of running the full distance. If you cover your LSR too quickly you'll do well not to suffer on the day.

RHunce

One of the exact reasons why I need this thread

Can anybody please give me the low down on the lingo, LSR, Tempo, PMP, cross etc and anything else you can think of.

Thanks

BTH

mrslow wrote: »

The guidelines would tell you to run 45 secs to 1 minute slower on your LSR's than your PMP and as ecoli says each run has a purpose. The person I was referring to had run everything at speed and the long runs are about time on your feet, getting the body used to the mental and physical demands of running the full distance. If you cover your LSR too quickly you'll do well not to suffer on the day.

So I'm not too far off anyway. I plan on aiming for 3:10 which I feel is very doable for me. That's 7:15 pace so around the 8 min pace is where I should be aiming.

My target is based on what I would expect to do a half in +10%, and comparing to others I know who ran last year. I'll be running a half later in the summer and it I'm off on my prediction there I'll re-evaluate.

ecoli

RHunce wrote: »

One of the exact reasons why I need this thread

Can anybody please give me the low down on the lingo, LSR, Tempo, PMP, cross etc and anything else you can think of.

Thanks

LSR - Long Slow Run
Tempo - Pace which you could hold for a 1 hour race (not the sprint at the end etc but evenly paced race) People say this ranges from your 10 mile to your Half Marathon pace
PMP- Projected/Planned Marathon pace - This is used by some plans in which they tell you to do runs at the pace you plan to do your marathon at. Not all plans advocate this
HMP - Half Marathon Pace
Cross Training - Basically alternative ways to boost your fitness and suppliment your running. Examples are Swimming, rowing, cycling etc

Mr Slow

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

So I'm not too far off anyway. I plan on aiming for 3:10 which I feel is very doable for me. That's 7:15 pace so around the 8 min pace is where I should be aiming.

My target is based on what I would expect to do a half in +10%, and comparing to others I know who ran last year. I'll be running a half later in the summer and it I'm off on my prediction there I'll re-evaluate.

I'd go a little slower on at least some of those LSR's maybe your 20 milers, the training schedules can be pretty taxing.

menoscemo

RHunce wrote: »

One of the exact reasons why I need this thread

Can anybody please give me the low down on the lingo, LSR, Tempo, PMP, cross etc and anything else you can think of.

Thanks

LSR= Long Slow Run- Your weekly long run should be done at 45sec-1 minute slower than your planned marathon pace (PMP)

Tempo- Typically you might run a tempo run every fortnight or so. A tempo run might involve 2-5 miles in and around the pace you could run a 10mile or Half Marthon in (so typically about 30 seconds faster than PMP).

Someone suggested you run a race soon and plug your time into mcmillan: here is the Mcmillan site: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm Here he gives you what kind of times you can expect for other races and what kind of times you should be running in training. E.G based on your 75 minutes for 10 miles, you can see a long run pace of 8'31-9'30/mile and an easy run pace of 8'30-9'00/mile. I'm sure you'd run faster in a 10 mile race though so it is definately useful to do a race.


Bear in mind that while Mcmillan is a useful tool, he is normally wildly optimistic on his marathon times for novices. For example. he predicted a time of 3'40 based on my 5 mile time and 3'35 based on a 5k race before my first marathon, but I actually only managed 4hrs 15.

In order for mcmillan to predict an accurate marathon time based on a shorter race, you really need to have been running for years and have a few thousand miles in the legs at least. (My opinion).

BTH

mrslow wrote: »

I'd go a little slower on at least some of those LSR's maybe your 20 milers, the training schedules can be pretty taxing.

I'm well aware that I'll most likely drift beyond 8min miles once I'm getting closer to 20miles and thats fine. My training isn't going to follow any standard plan due to swimming and biking, but i've three 15milers in the last 4 weekends, and these have been comfortable enough in what is already a taxing schedule. Only going to get one LSR in during the next four weekends, so my head-start will be well gone!!

Nules10

Decided to start my Marathon training plan tonight. I am off on holidays on saturday but thought if i start now it might encourage me to keep going during my holidays. If i don't i will start when i get back. I have decided for now to follow Hal hidgon novice 1... for now but may change. I like doing tempos and intervals as they keep it from getting too tedious and there is none on this plan. So while on holidays i might devise a better plan. So anyone with any input/advice would be great. I am just looking to finish as it is my first marathon. I did the Kildare half in 2:03.
so today i did 3 miles in 27:55 pace 9:16... but this was torture to be honest dont know what happened. I am just wrecked.... i need a holiday

papamike

In putting together my training plan I noted that I have two family weddings either side of the 10 Mile Race in August so my LSR those weekends (~15 milers) will more than likely be less than ideal but hope to get my Saturday run in the morning of the weddings. The rest of the weeks schedule should be ok but given the importance of the LSRs especially for a novice should I start the plan two weeks early to allow for these 'recovery' days;)?

Regarding a plan I have been looking at the Runners World 3:45 plan which seems good but will await Mrslow's report on Cork and the 55 mile plan he followed before making a final decision.

PDCAT

Hi Folks

Contemplating running DCM if i can stay injury free.

Just couple of questions if that's ok.

What's the difference between HH Novice 1 & Novice 2?
Seem's to be extra miles in Novice 2?
How do i know,which one's for me?.


Also

Does this Plan/Pace look ok for novice aiming for 4 hours. Have taken training times roughly from Mcmillian Calculator

Monday - Recovery run = 10.45 Pace
Tueday - Tempo = 8.15 Pace
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - Easy = 9.45 Pace
Friday - Rest
Saturday - LSR = 9.45 Pace
Sunday - X Training (Walk/Cycle).

These pace's seem rather slow for me as i generally run a bit faster than this but i think i'm running too fast. All help appreciated.

ger664

PDCAT

Whichever plan you can now comfortably do the mileage and the LSR of its first week.

As regards what paces to train, these are normally got from your latest 10K or greater race.

If you think that these paces are on the slow side then they are most likely correct.

butlerjustine

Hey I haven't been on in a while. I have my sister's wedding on Aug 20th so I'm missing the 10mile race, does anyone know of other 10 miles races around august?

I was concerned a couple of months ago about my 10k pb (57 min) but I'm down to 55:18 (mini marathon yesterday) so I'm chuffed. I't hard to imagine 20 miles on top of that though.

LaHaine

On long runs on hot days my feet are beginning to get some bad blisters. I have some nike socks which have been good but are all worn out. Thinking about getting some of those 1000mile socks. Anyone recommend them? Or any alternatives?

Can't wait to get started on my training plan. Decided to use hal higdons novice 2 programme. Looking forward to the structure it will bring to my running.

rainbow kirby

Relatively cheap options: MoreMile socks from Start Fitness - there is a deal going at the moment where you can get 4 pairs for £10. Also, Aldi or Lidl socks when they get them in - they should be about €4 a pair.

Slightly more expensive: Hilly Twin Skin socks are pretty good for preventing blisters. Alternatively, get another pair of the same Nike socks. If you're near any branch of Decathlon at any stage over the summer, their Kalenji Run 800 socks are great - I paid about €7 for them in Paris.

Really expensive: X-Socks - they are about €20 a pair.

rom

28 running since Sept Did two 1/2 marathons Distance races Cork 1/2 yesterday 1:52:35 (felt very good after it, could have done a few more miles) Bantry Bay run (hilly) start of may 1:58:something (was hell, dehydrated, started too fast and Mallow 10 mile 81mins 5secs (pretty flat) I would like to do sub 4 hours and dublin. Is it too obtomistic. Short races 4 miles - 29 mins. I really like distance running, Lots of the programs only have a single long run in a week. Looking for a training program for to get me in under 4. I feel that I could train a lot harder than I am currently. 35Mile weeks have been ok for me which was probably 3 x 10 milers. I read that it is a good idea to have two paris of shoes so the bounce can return to the 2nd pair. Knee do take a battering. Just over 13 Stone.