Dublin Marathon 2011 'improvers' thread

I am delighted to see this thread, had debated posting on novice thread, but felt it was maybe a question beyond novice running (although I don't consider myself to be in any way fast, accomplished or experienced, just a great big plodder).
I am currently training for the Cork marathon and will also hopefully do Dublin this year. My previous marathon times are 4.13, 3.53 and 3.39. My first one was done on the back of minimal training whereas my 2nd and third were done following Hal Higdon programmes fairly closely.
I'd love to have a crack at breaking 3.30, so My question is this:
Why am I finding my PMP runs so difficult? I do my LSRs at about 9 min pace and have v few problems, and i do mile repeats at the track once a week at 6.50 pace and again i don't find them a big problem (wrecked afterwards always, but not unduly so). But when I try to do the PMP runs at 8 min pace, i feel tired, sluggish, like i can't continue. Is this psychological?? Or would everyone find these hard, given that they combine a bit of speed and a bit of endurance, whereas the other two runs have only one or the other? I generally run 5 times a week, I don't feel I can train more and i rarely feel over-trained.
Or is it that 8 min pace is just too ambitious at this stage? Should I shelve my hopes for sub 3.30 for a while?? When I ran 3.39 in Dublin last year, the whole thing went perfectly, ran a slightly negative split and felt my training had been bang on (original aim was 3.45).
Any thoughts welcome!

RayCun wrote: »

I think Corkie is planning to race... Cork so isn't so far away from his goal race.
What does your normal training week look like? Are you following a particular plan? What are your race times for other distances?

Actually her goal race, I'm female!
Well, I'm inclined to agree with earlier post and my original thoughts were to go for 3.30 in Dublin and just take it handy in Cork. My 3.39 was in Dublin last october, but i would if anything feel fitter now. My Training week usually has one interval session (4 x mile repeats at 6.50 pace), one lsr (now up to 20 miles at 9 min pace), one PMP run (as complained about earlier) and usually 2 other recovery runs of varying distances and speed (depending on who's around to drag along with me!). I must admit i probably over-race if anything, I do a lot of shorter races so these might be taking the spring out of my step too! My current Pbs (from 2011) are:
5 mile: 35.10
10km: 43.30
10 Mile: 72. 20
Half-mara 1.40 (from Dec 2010)
Thanks for all comments so far, am inclined to think some of it is psychological too though, as i spend most of my paced run thinking 'oh God I'd never manage 26 miles at this pace' etcetc and i usually feel much better after a few miles. I'll try a few PMP runs at a slower pace and see what happens, if it's very much more comfortable then I have my answer.

Great to see this thread.

I am jsut getting back into the swing of things from several months off.

Have been doing max of 20-25 miles a week for the last 3-4 weeks.

I did Dublin the last 2 years and came in at 3.27 in both races. Made a slight improvement of 20 secs in one year.

i am aiming for 3.15-3.20. What training plans can people recommend?

cheers

None atm... Base work for the next month or so. Will start on a programme near the end of May. Will be coming looking for advice on good ones then... Shall pop in from time to time between then though to say hello

I bet corkie if you get a bit of company for your 8 min mile pmp runs you will feel 10 times better. In your mind it sounds like you have built it up as a big deal and you are suffering. According to your times 8 min miles should be no bother to you. 8 min miles and 7 min miles ect... is just a mental barrier, they are just like any other time.

Oisin11178 wrote: »

I bet corkie if you get a bit of company for your 8 min mile pmp runs you will feel 10 times better. In your mind it sounds like you have built it up as a big deal and you are suffering. According to your times 8 min miles should be no bother to you. 8 min miles and 7 min miles ect... is just a mental barrier, they are just like any other time.

I think you're spot on with this one, because although I said earlier I find speed work ok, I know that's only because I run in a group at the track and the buzz and chat keeps me going. I also do the long runs in a group when possible, although this is the one session I really don't mind doing on my own. I am currently trying to round up a few pals to do the pmp runs, think it will definitely help. My shorter race times continue to improve and as I have no probs getting the miles in for the long runs, I really don't think my target is over-ambitious.Thanks!!

pistol_75 wrote: »

Haha. No she was only my training partner not my life partner. My wife is however due our first baby on 12th September so will have to factor this into training.

Without turning this into the 'baby / pregnancy due dates' - my wife is also expecting and due on the 17 October! She is going to the Rotunda so at least if she is overdue she can wave at me from the window!!:D

Corkie100 wrote: »

Or is it that 8 min pace is just too ambitious at this stage? Should I shelve my hopes for sub 3.30 for a while?? When I ran 3.39 in Dublin last year, the whole thing went perfectly, ran a slightly negative split and felt my training had been bang on (original aim was 3.45).
Any thoughts welcome!

Hi Corkie

Just spotted this thread today. I could nearly have written your original post.

We are in a very similar place. I too am training for Cork. I too am hoping for 3:29:59. I too have real doubts about whether or not I can achieve this time. My level of optimism / pessimism is also driven by how I feel on my PMP runs.

My Saturday PMP runs are my most daunting run of the week. I cruise through my LSRs at around 8:45 pace with a sprinkling of 9:00 miles, not a bother. I ran tempos earlier in my schedule at peak pace 7:30, recently these hit sub 7:00 pace. I feel tired after tempos but not unduly so, it’s a tempo run after all.

But the PMP is where I ‘struggle’ (sometimes just mentally). I always hit my target it’s just some-days it feels like a lot of hard-work and I then I think there is no way I could keep this up for 26 miles.

One difference between us is that I made a decision before starting my schedule to run my PMP at 7:45 pace, that’s 15” faster than what I plan to run in Cork. Of late actually I’ve been running closer to 7:40 pace. This decision could blow up in my face, if it does I hope I can at least still PB in Cork.

While running my PMPs I’m optimistic because:

• I’m running 15” to 20” faster a mile than I’ll have to on race-day.
• It feels easier now than when I started the program.
• The marathon route will be flatter than this, and I always worry most about pace when I’m heading up a hill.
• The second half of my 10 mile PMPs I’ve run faster than the first half.
• I’ll be fresher on race day after a gorgeous three week taper. No tempos in the legs from earlier in the week.
• I’ll have race-adrenaline on race-day that should make everything feel at least 5” a mile easier.
• I’ll have people to talk to / listen to to make the miles pass easier. I’ve run all my PMPs on my own, obsessing over every step.
• I’m now running on road, last year I ran 99% of my training on grass and suffered on race day accordingly.

3:30 will be a challenge for sure. But I guess that in itself is something to look forward to, it keeps me focused and it certainly stops me from being complacent in the build-up.

Good Luck, 32 days and counting!!


My PBs are:
Marathon 3:51 Cork 2010 (first marathon)
Half Marathon 1:40 Dublin 2010
10 Mile 1:17 Frank Duffy 2010 (although I’ve done two consecutive 1:16s in training in the last few weeks, and I wasn’t racing these)
I also ran Cork to Cobh last year 15M at 7:48 pace and felt relatively comfortable.