Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

dodgyknees

i havent ran in 3 weeks ,my last race was kildare hm ,ive done 2 half marathons now my first was 2.08 my last was 1.57 im running 3 years now and want to do dcm this year friends are telling me i will be grand but they have done 2 marathons now ,would i be considered a novice?some body on here told me to do the novice plan ,im hoping to break the 4 hour mark. im just under 15 stone 5 foot 11 ,37 years young,what plan should i do ?and is my time realistic?4 months to dcm.

RoyMcC

DK those times/stats pretty much mirror mine when I was starting out - you're a fair bit younger mind.

You're not a novice runner but you are a novice marathoner. A marathon is a hugely different kettle of fish. You will be grand for DCM but I'd certainly go for the novice plan.

I also think that four hours is a big ask - you've yet to experience the world of pain at 19-20 miles and beyond 4.30 is a reasonable target and then take stock before preparing for the next one, which will be better.

Oisin11178

RoyMcC wrote: »

DK those times/stats pretty much mirror mine when I was starting out - you're a fair bit younger mind.

You're not a novice runner but you are a novice marathoner. A marathon is a hugely different kettle of fish. You will be grand for DCM but I'd certainly go for the novice plan.

I also think that four hours is a big ask - you've yet to experience the world of pain at 19-20 miles and beyond 4.30 is a reasonable target and then take stock before preparing for the next one, which will be better.

4 hours is a big ask yes but with 1.57 already for a half an a good training cycle there is no reason he cant get under 4 hours. 4.30 is a bit slow to aim for to be honest with his previous half time.

PatientBear

RoyMcC wrote: »

DK those times/stats pretty much mirror mine when I was starting out - you're a fair bit younger mind.

You're not a novice runner but you are a novice marathoner. A marathon is a hugely different kettle of fish. You will be grand for DCM but I'd certainly go for the novice plan.

I also think that four hours is a big ask - you've yet to experience the world of pain at 19-20 miles and beyond 4.30 is a reasonable target and then take stock before preparing for the next one, which will be better.

Roy is dead on. And don't worry about the time, completing the distance will be gratifying enough. Also, if you ignore time, you're actually likely to relax more and perform better. Stress out on a time, and it may bother you throughout the race.

I know a girl who did her first marathon in 4 hours 30 mins and she thought it was crap - it was a totally misplaced reaction as she'd turned what was a great achievement into a big disappointment because she was 30 minutes longer on the course... She shouldn't have been so hard on herself.

Bally8

ger664 wrote: »

The 3 Days running is tough to get used to. Remember the rule always have an easy session after a hard one. Day 1 and 3 should be done at a very slow easy recovery pace. Day 2 should be a harder session at higher pace but slower then your PMP.

Muscle soreness and Injury Prevention
Every session should start with an easy/recovery mile or 2. If you are still sore after this,stop and do some gentle stretches on the effected area, if it still sore or hurts stop and rest for a few days.

Thanks ger, I had planned to run my Day 2 at PMP and then Day 3 would include strides. Do you think I would be better off incorporating the srides in Run 2 so then I have an easy/hard/easy session. I was thinking it would be ok to push a little with strides on Day 3 as Day 4 is a rest day?

ger664

Bally8 wrote: »

Thanks ger, I had planned to run my Day 2 at PMP and then Day 3 would include strides. Do you think I would be better off incorporating the srides in Run 2 so then I have an easy/hard/easy session. I was thinking it would be ok to push a little with strides on Day 3 as Day 4 is a rest day?

Do not know if we are getting day numbers mixed up. My day 1,2,3 are referring to the 3 consecutive days running you have in your plan. Plan for this week is easy/easy with strides/easy.

Do the strides on the second day as this is the hard day of the 3 and don't do them flat out. Gradually build up to 10K pace hold for 10-15 strides easy back down. Strides are really not meant to tax the body but just remind it what good running form at pace is.

Rest and Recovery days are as important as the LSR, tempo runs intervals etc. The trick is being able to pull the reigns on these runs. Its just so easy especially when you feel good to overdo a recovery run and get injured.

ger664

dodgyknees wrote: »

i havent ran in 3 weeks ,my last race was kildare hm ,ive done 2 half marathons now my first was 2.08 my last was 1.57 im running 3 years now and want to do dcm this year friends are telling me i will be grand but they have done 2 marathons now ,would i be considered a novice?some body on here told me to do the novice plan ,im hoping to break the 4 hour mark. im just under 15 stone 5 foot 11 ,37 years young,what plan should i do ?and is my time realistic?4 months to dcm.

Do a training plan that is an extension/follow on from whatever half plan you followed for Kildare.

As regards the 4 hour marathon, I'm kinda between both camps here. I agree with Roy that you should aim to finish your first marathon and forget about time but given your half time you are nearer to a sub 4 then a 4:30.

I would say set your PMP time for a sub 4 and honestly reevaluate it half way through your training plan after a half/10 mile race.

dodgyknees

RoyMcC wrote: »

DK those times/stats pretty much mirror mine when I was starting out - you're a fair bit younger mind.

You're not a novice runner but you are a novice marathoner. A marathon is a hugely different kettle of fish. You will be grand for DCM but I'd certainly go for the novice plan.

I also think that four hours is a big ask - you've yet to experience the world of pain at 19-20 miles and beyond 4.30 is a reasonable target and then take stock before preparing for the next one, which will be better.

whats your pb for hm now roy ?and what was your time for your first marathon?

RayCun

ger664 wrote: »

Do not know if we are getting day numbers mixed up. My day 1,2,3 are referring to the 3 consecutive days running you have in your plan. Plan for this week is easy/easy with strides/easy.

Yes, if you're going to do a PMP run, do it instead of the 'easy with strides' run.
There are four runs every week - Tues, Wed,Thurs, Sat.
Sat is the long run.
Tues and Thurs are recovery runs
Wednesday can be a little harder, and we'll be trying strides, tempos, PMP runs throughout the programme. But there should only be one day of faster running each week.

elvis jones

I'm in.

Working on tri and half marathons until Aug 13 and then i can focus on it fully but i'll be up to about 16 mile LSR by then.

Legs aren't able ( shins ) for running 4 or 5 times a week so i'll be replacing some with swimming and cycling.

I plan 5 mile, 8/10 mile and LSR.

Getting my weight down from 240 pounds to 225 at the mo and hope to be at 200 by then which will help with effort needed and time.

I have 4 half marathons before DCM and aiming to do a sub 2h by sept and aiming for about 4:20 on the day !

Bally8

ger664 wrote: »

Do not know if we are getting day numbers mixed up. My day 1,2,3 are referring to the 3 consecutive days running you have in your plan. Plan for this week is easy/easy with strides/easy.

Sorry ger I did mix up the numbers of the days. Im following Novice 2 and it has a lot of the Wednesday runs as Pace. I will definately take your and Raycun's advice and do Tuesday easy/Wed harder/Thurs easy.

Bally8

RayCun wrote: »

Yes, if you're going to do a PMP run, do it instead of the 'easy with strides' run.
There are four runs every week - Tues, Wed,Thurs, Sat.
Sat is the long run.
Tues and Thurs are recovery runs
Wednesday can be a little harder, and we'll be trying strides, tempos, PMP runs throughout the programme. But there should only be one day of faster running each week.

Thanks Ray that makes it all very clear to me. I was trying to do 2 hard runs in a row but realise now thats a reciepe for injury.

RayCun

Monday | Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3m/5km|3m/5km with 5*100m strides|3m/5km|rest|cross|7m/11km


It's pretty much the same as last week - the only difference is an extra mile/kilometre on the LSR, an extra 10 minutes running or so. No problem

RayCun

and because everyone loves tables, here's one for tracking your progress

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
name||||
name||||
name||||
name||||
name||||
name||||
name||||
name||||
name||||


I've entered my own run details for the week to give you the idea.
Quote this post, and delete everything outside the table tags to get a copy you can edit. Replace a name with your own name, and add the number of runs you've done this week, the total distance you've run, plus any comments about those runs.

So, anyone have any questions after that first week of training? Any marathon questions in general?

meijin

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
name||||


10 km today at 6:30/km and avg. HR 142. I felt really good and running seems to be getting more and more natural for me
I do some warm up and stretching before and after the run, from Paula's Radcliffe book I got a while ago - if anybody has better suggestions, let me know.

In previous weeks I did 26.4 km & 27 km in total (4 sessions each week).
My logs are available at http://runkeeper.com/user/meijin/activity

I also cycle on some non-running days, about 1 hour each time, except the trip to Phoenix Park which took me 1 hour each way... I would hope to join you for some weekend run in Phoenix Park, but it's way too early for me and I usually end up running in the evening. I'll be there for the Irish Runner 5 mile.

Nules10

I have just completed week 5 and have done 21.52 miles in total which is 4 sessions one of which was a hill session and my LSR 10 miles in the BAC group run on saturday. Feel great today did a cross train of a hill walk (kind of) of two hours. I can't do the table thingy without undoing everything others have put in sorry
The plan says to drop back to 7 miles of an LSR next week and then up to 12 the next.... seems alot to drop back to 7 and then go up to 12 the following week??

tHE vAGGABOND

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
Vagga|3|24 Miles|Being careful with an injury limited me to 3 runs|
name||||

Not a million miles behind the text of my plan, mile wise, but I was basically missing 2 runs, which should have added 10-12 miles. I have added more miles early since Im missing some key weekends with weddings and stuff.

Injury seems all but sorted now, no issues after the half today, so we are all good. Back to normal!

shels4ever

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
Vagga|3|24 Miles|Being careful with an injury limited me to 3 runs|
shels4ever|6|54|Mostly easy runs, 1 long run and one steady run|

Doing berlin but though i'd drop in here too, havent set a target for Berlin but this is the first marathon that i'm doing propper trainng for. Got around 2 in the past but never under the 4 hour mark.

Bally8

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
Vagga|3|24 Miles|Being careful with an injury limited me to 3 runs|
shels4ever|6|54|Mostly easy runs, 1 long run and one steady run|
Bally8|4|20 miles|This is my second week of Novice 2. Got an easy run, a PMP, a easy run with strides and a 9 mile lsr in. Out on the kayaks twce this week too. Happy days!|

Bally8

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
Vagga|3|24 Miles|Being careful with an injury limited me to 3 runs|
shels4ever|6|54|Mostly easy runs, 1 long run and one steady run|
Bally8|4|20.85 miles|This is my second week of Novice 2. Got an easy run, a PMP, a easy run with strides and a 9 mile lsr in. Out on the kayaks twce this week too. Happy days!|
Nules10|4|21.52 miles|On week 5|


Added Nules- hope thats ok

Duckee

Bally8 wrote: »

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
Vagga|3|24 Miles|Being careful with an injury limited me to 3 runs|
shels4ever|6|54|Mostly easy runs, 1 long run and one steady run|
Bally8|4|20.85 miles|This is my second week of Novice 2. Got an easy run, a PMP, a easy run with strides and a 9 mile lsr in. Out on the kayaks twce this week too. Happy days!|
Nules10|4|21.52 miles|On week 5|
Duckee|4|24.4km|week 1 down. 1 long run, 3 easy. Trying to learn how to run slow on mid-week runs|


Hope I've done this right.

RayCun

Nules10 wrote: »

The plan says to drop back to 7 miles of an LSR next week and then up to 12 the next.... seems alot to drop back to 7 and then go up to 12 the following week??

The week with 7 is basically a recovery week. The 7 should feel easy (which is a confidence booster, since 7 was the longest run in the programme a few weeks earlier), and the easier week gives your legs a bit of a rest before you go up to 12. The same thing happens later in the programme too - there's 16, 12, 18, 14, 20.

liamog

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
Vagga|3|24 Miles|Being careful with an injury limited me to 3 runs|
shels4ever|6|54|Mostly easy runs, 1 long run and one steady run|
Bally8|4|20.85 miles|This is my second week of Novice 2. Got an easy run, a PMP, a easy run with strides and a 9 mile lsr in. Out on the kayaks twce this week too. Happy days!|
Nules10|4|21.52 miles|On week 5|
Duckee|4|24.4km|week 1 down. 1 long run, 3 easy. Trying to learn how to run slow on mid-week runs|
liamog|3|27.64km|Week 1 finished, a 5km BHAA Race and then two more runs to round it off|

Concerned2

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
Vagga|3|24 Miles|Being careful with an injury limited me to 3 runs|
shels4ever|6|54|Mostly easy runs, 1 long run and one steady run|
Bally8|4|20.85 miles|This is my second week of Novice 2. Got an easy run, a PMP, a easy run with strides and a 9 mile lsr in. Out on the kayaks twce this week too. Happy days!|
Nules10|4|21.52 miles|On week 5|
Duckee|4|24.4km|week 1 down. 1 long run, 3 easy. Trying to learn how to run slow on mid-week runs|
liamog|3|27.64km|Week 1 finished, a 5km BHAA Race and then two more runs to round it off|
Concerned25|27.17 miles|Missed 1 planned session, legs currently have loads of aches|

Concerned2

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles/km This Week|Comments
RayCun|4|31.3km|two club sessions, two recovery runs|
meijin|4|28.5km||
Vagga|3|24 Miles|Being careful with an injury limited me to 3 runs|
shels4ever|6|54|Mostly easy runs, 1 long run and one steady run|
Bally8|4|20.85 miles|This is my second week of Novice 2. Got an easy run, a PMP, a easy run with strides and a 9 mile lsr in. Out on the kayaks twce this week too. Happy days!|
Nules10|4|21.52 miles|On week 5|
Duckee|4|24.4km|week 1 down. 1 long run, 3 easy. Trying to learn how to run slow on mid-week runs|
liamog|3|27.64km|Week 1 finished, a 5km BHAA Race and then two more runs to round it off|
Concerned2|5|27.17 miles|Missed 1 planned session, legs currently have loads of aches|

oops , missed a '|' in the last post

TomD101

Hey, can I join in on the thread?

Thinking of doing the marathon this year. I'm 24 and have just finished the triathlone sprint and am looking for a new challenge.

I haven't run long distances before, did a 10 mile race last year in the phoenix park in 84mins.

Ran the dublin docklands 8km in 35mins a few weeks ago.

My 10km time would be 45-46mins.

Should I just start the Hal Higdon plan a few weeks in?

RayCun

TomD101 wrote: »

Hey, can I join in on the thread?

Sure. How much running have you done in the last few weeks?

TomD101

Hi Ray,

Been training 5-6 days a week for last six weeks. Mainly swimming and cycling, most runs were short bric's after cycling.

I've done two 10km runs in last three weeks though seperately.

Not a lot / any experience of distances longer than 10k though

RayCun

You should be able to jump in on this week of the training plan. How does that look to you?

TomD101

Yeah it looks do-able! Thanks !