Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

AlwaysInjured

Hi guys, would appreciate some opinions here. FOr the Cork Half Marathon I ran all my LSR at about 10min/mile, however this was also my goal pace for the race and I did manage to maintain this for the full 13 miles. My question is if I had run these LSR at a slower pace could i have completed the 13 miles quicker in theory?
Also, I am currently trying to increase my speed on the shorter runs, but I am no athlete! The faster runs I can only manage to get about a 9 min mile pace on these, any faster and I get bad side stitches. Any advise on how to overcome this?

All opinions welcome

RayCun

Your Long Slow Runs should be run about 10% slower than your planned marathon pace.

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

Are you going to be doing all your runs together? I'd disagree with the others a bit, in that if all of your running is two mninutes slower than goal pace, I think you'll have trouble maintaining the faster pace on the day.

I agree with you actually,. What i meant to say was you could in theory do all your recovery runs with your wife and some of your LSR's.
You would have to do all of your pace runs and most of your LSR's at your own pace.

PDCAT

RayCun wrote: »

Are you going to be doing all your runs together? I'd disagree with the others a bit, in that if all of your running is two mninutes slower than goal pace, I think you'll have trouble maintaining the faster pace on the day.

Hi Raycun

Plan i was going to go with is something similiar to below. My last 10k time was 48.13, so was going for a sub 4.

Monday - Recovery run - approx 10.15 pace
Tuesday - Easy run - approx 9.30 pace (will be doing on Treadmill)
Wedneday - Rest
Thursday - Tempo - approx 8.00 pace (will be doing on treadmill)
Friday - Rest
Saturday - LSR - approx 9.30 pace.


However my wife's is abit slower. Was thinking of doing Recovery & LSR with her, if it didn't affect my own performance on the day. Her half marathon time was 2.05.

Her Recovery run - approx 11.45
LSR - 10.37 - 11.47 (Band - according to mcmillan).


Was thinking of running with her on these runs as we both my benefit of having company together. i know she should not be going faster on her runs to suit me, so i was thinking of running slower but only if it wasn't going to affect my own performance.

meijin

Hi, I hope to run the DCM for the first time this year.

I'm following this plan for half marathon at the moment http://runkeeper.com/user/meijin/fitness-class/scheduled-class/466 and want to switch later to this one http://runkeeper.com/fitness-class/running-marathon/9 in time to finish at the end of October. I also plan to run in the preceding race series if all goes well.

Besides running I cycle a bit between run days and/or do light core exercises. Before I was also playing table tennis quite actively for about 6 hours a week for about 2 years, so also weight bearing activity.

So far my runs seem fine, even with the uphill finish

Any feedback or advices welcome.

AlwaysInjured

menoscemo wrote: »

In order to do your long runs successfully your midweek runs also have to increase as the weeks go on. If you insist on only doing 3 runs per week, keep one of the midweek runs in the 5-7 mile range (maybe use it as a MP run or similar) and build the other one up to about 10-12 miles at peak. Having midweek 'semi-long runs' will make the LSR's less daunting and less of a stretch for your body.

It really would be advantageous for you to try to do 5 runs a week though. It is just a matter of adding in recovery runs on 2 of your rest or XT days. I'm talking simply about doing 3-4 milers at a very slow pace (1-2 minutes/mile slower than MP). These will have the effect of increasing your mileage while simultaneously helping your body recover from the tougher workouts.

Hi Menoscemo, thanks a mil for the advise, i have now changed my training plan, using Hal Higdons Novice 1 and made a few amendments to fit in holidays. Let me know what you think of it, i really appreciate all the advise form everyone on this thread. As a lone runner the support and information is invaluable

menoscemo

That looks much better. Best of Luck.

RayCun

meijin wrote: »

I'm following this plan for half marathon at the moment http://runkeeper.com/user/meijin/fitness-class/scheduled-class/466 and want to switch later to this one http://runkeeper.com/fitness-class/running-marathon/9 in time to finish at the end of October.

The longest run in that programme seems to be 16 miles? That's a long way short of marathon distance. Most programmes will have at least one 20 mile run, and a few more in the 17-19 range.

RayCun

PDCAT wrote: »

Monday - Recovery run - approx 10.15 pace
Tuesday - Easy run - approx 9.30 pace (will be doing on Treadmill)
Wedneday - Rest
Thursday - Tempo - approx 8.00 pace (will be doing on treadmill)
Friday - Rest
Saturday - LSR - approx 9.30 pace.
---
Her Recovery run - approx 11.45
LSR - 10.37 - 11.47 (Band - according to mcmillan).

You would probably be better off running only every 2nd or 3rd LSR with her, or perhaps running a few miles of her LSR with her on Saturday, and treating it as a recovery run, then doing your own LSR on Sunday. You LSR should be around 10m/m if you're going for sub-4, and her pace is a good minute slower than that. You're not going to get the same training benefit if you run that slowly.

meijin

RayCun wrote: »

The longest run in that programme seems to be 16 miles? That's a long way short of marathon distance. Most programmes will have at least one 20 mile run, and a few more in the 17-19 range.

Thanks Ray,

Yeah, looks like the idea in that programme, based on the description, is to split the long run into consecutive days, going up to 24 miles over two days. Is it really bad idea? The author provides some reasoning for this, which sounds OK to me, but may sound rubbish to somebody with more experience?

RayCun

meijin wrote: »

Thanks Ray,

Yeah, looks like the idea in that programme, based on the description, is to split the long run into consecutive days, going up to 24 miles over two days. Is it really bad idea? The author provides some reasoning for this, which sounds OK to me, but may sound rubbish to somebody with more experience?

I don't have a lot more experience.
But yes, it sounds like a bad idea to me. I think you really need the experience of running 18-20 miles in training before you run the marathon. It will help you adapt physically to the demands of the distance, and I think mentally it would be very tough to get to 16 miles on race day and think that everything beyond that is uncharted territory.

PDCAT

RayCun wrote: »

You would probably be better off running only every 2nd or 3rd LSR with her, or perhaps running a few miles of her LSR with her on Saturday, and treating it as a recovery run, then doing your own LSR on Sunday. You LSR should be around 10m/m if you're going for sub-4, and her pace is a good minute slower than that. You're not going to get the same training benefit if you run that slowly.

Thanks Ray

yeah, think i'll keep the LSR's as separate but maybe run the recovery's on the monday together.

Bally8

Eek- getting excited now. Im going to start my marathon training on Tuesday. Body feeling injury-free, no niggles or aches. This time last year as I aimed to begin marathon training I came to the realisation that it was hopeless and the achilles pain I had ignored for nearly a year could no longer be ignored. Cue almost 6 months of a lay off while it recovered.

Cant believe Im here a year later, ready to start the training again. Im going to use both Novice 1 and 2 mixing them up a little and adding some tempo and interval runs to try turn myself from plodder to slow jogger

RayCun

I'll be posting the first training schedule next weekend, but I'm sure some of you have already started your own plans.

What are you all wearing for your runs? I hope everyone has a decent pair of runners, and some proper running clothes?

And remember, as you run longer distances you will have to take some steps to prevent chafing. Your clothes will rub against your skin, particularly where there's a seam, and around the nips (for men).
Use Bodyglide (or vaseline, but it may be bad for your clothes?) around the affected areas.
Use plasters, micropore tape, or nipguards to prevent the dreading bleeding nipples.

LaHaine

RayCun wrote: »

I'll be posting the first training schedule next weekend, but I'm sure some of you have already started your own plans.

What are you all wearing for your runs? I hope everyone has a decent pair of runners, and some proper running clothes?

And remember, as you run longer distances you will have to take some steps to prevent chafing. Your clothes will rub against your skin, particularly where there's a seam, and around the nips (for men).
Use Bodyglide (or vaseline, but it may be bad for your clothes?) around the affected areas.
Use plasters, micropore tape, or nipguards to prevent the dreading bleeding nipples.

A lot of lessons learned over the past few months of running - clothes that are fine for a half hour jog can be a nightmare over a ten mile run. Ive had times where i come home and dont even realise the clothes were rubbing until I got into the shower and felt a random bout of pain - like when i wore GAA shorts and they dug a hole across my back! I know exactly what suits now for long runs.

Ive also had some issues with nipples chaffing - and that is NOT fun. Vaseline seems to have solved the problem for me luckily enough.

The runners i have now are perfect but i dont think they will last until the marathon so ill be buying a new pair soon to break them in slowly. Probably just the newer version of the mizuno wave rider that I currently wear as i find them perfect. Ill take a trip out to Amphibian King to try them anyway as they were great the last time i went out there.

I havent followed a specific training plan so far but i have been getting some good miles in. Body is getting used to the abuse!

Looking forward to this thread getting busier as Im driving all my friends mad talking about running all the time already!

rainbow kirby

Also just a word to the ladies - this would be a good time to get some new sports bras if you don't already have a good one (also get fitted if you can, a very high percentage of women wear the wrong size). If anything rubs at all (seams, straps, fastening at the back etc), BodyGlide or Vaseline will save you some absolute misery.

Mr Slow

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Also just a word to the ladies - this would be a good time to get some new sports bras if you don't already have a good one (also get fitted if you can, a very high percentage of women wear the wrong size). If anything rubs at all (seams, straps, fastening at the back etc), BodyGlide or Vaseline will save you some absolute misery.

Sexism!

tHE vAGGABOND

Sexism!

Larger blokes could also heed that advice, so its not really

Mr Slow

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Larger blokes could also heed that advice, so its not really

Yes but it was directed at the ladies not simply 'Those with b/moobs'

meijin

Hi, so I did 3 miles yesterday and 6 miles today. Hmm... am I running too fast? I was trying to run slower than usual today.
I also did the Joe Daly Memorial Charity Cycle Rally this morning (almost 20 miles). Yeah, maybe it was too much during one weekend, but the cycling didn't seem to affect my run much.

RayCun

meijin wrote: »

Hi, so I did 3 miles yesterday and 6 miles today. Hmm... am I running too fast?

Your 10k run was about 40 seconds/km slower than your 5k run - that seems about right. How do they compare to your pace in races?

meijin

RayCun wrote: »

Your 10k run was about 40 seconds/km slower than your 5k run - that seems about right. How do they compare to your pace in races?

I didn't race before... so I guess I'll know more after the "Irish Runner 5 Mile"

ger664

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Larger blokes could also heed that advice, so its not really

Mr Slow wrote: »

Yes but it was directed at the ladies not simply 'Those with b/moobs'

My daugther got me one of those for Fathers Day:eek:

househunter

I'm planning to run my first marathon in October (Dublin) and had decided to use the P&D plan that peaks at 55 miles a week, because my husband is also using that plan and I liked the variation in it.

Starting to doubt that thats a good idea now though. I'm nowhere near as fast as he is (I would be hoping for maybe sub 4 hrs) so maybe it would be over ambitious to go for this. I'm not worried about not being able to do the mileage or the hard work. Have got myself up to 35-35 miles a weeks for the last 4-5 weeks, including intervals, tempo runs, long runs etc., running 5 times a week, and I feel fine but maybe I uped the mileage too quickly. I've been running consistently for about 18 months (3-5 times a week) and have run distances up to half marathon until now.

I have heard that these plans are really aimed at people looking to do sub 3.30. Perhaps I should go for a Hal Higdon plan or something else? Any recommendations would be appreciated

RayCun

Why are you doubting your decision to use this plan? Have you had any problems completing the distances, or following the different kind of runs? If you feel fine, why not stick with it?

househunter

I haven't started it yet
Been working towards a 10k this weekend.
Its just that I'm worried that I'm too slow to be attempting a plan like this. I'm due to start it on Monday.
Maybe I should just go for it.

RayCun

All of the paces in the P&D plan are based off your running paces - your half-marathon pace, or 5k pace, or planned marathon pace, whatever - so it doesn't matter how fast or slow you are.

Are you running Dunshaughlin?

househunter

Yep, am running Dunshaughlin.
OK, maybe I should stick with the plan. I think I have a decent base at this stage and would really like to give the marathon my best shot

RayCun

Yeah, I think you should give it a shot.
I think it's a plan for more experienced runners (than the Higdon plans), because of the variety of runs it contains, but not necessarily faster runners.

Keep an eye out for Boards tops in Dunshaughlin, there'll be a few of us down there.

househunter

Will do