Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

Rantan

in my limited experience that seems like a lot of miles for a sub 4 marathon target - if you keep it up you should defo beat it - I did my second ever marathon this year in 3.42 and my peak week was 38m(once) I averaged around 28 - 34m in the last few weeks of training. If your body is up for it go for it....good luck, you'll fly it..!

househunter

Thanks Rantan. Getting slightly nervous about what I'm taking on now but excited at the same time. I figure it might be the only time I have this much time to put in so why not go for it.

Bally8

I think you should go for it and there is always the option of falling back to a less demanding schedule if things are proving too difficult househunter

househunter

Yep, that true, you can always drop down to something easier but you can't really step up to something harder mid way through so have decided I'm definitely giving it a go, starting Monday

Joeyde

Been keeping up well with my 10km plan last 2 weeks, haven't missed a run. Played tag rugby yesterday and was planning to run the 8km home for my 1hr easy run...disaster, got taken down by someone on my heels and sprained my big toe pretty bad. Got some ice on it fairly quick but its swollen to the size of a club this morning and Im limping about the place. Its a rest day today anyway but I was supposed to run a 5km paced run tomorrow. Going to have to stay off it now for the next few days and maybe get an xray if it stays sore.

Hopefully be back by monday if its just a sprain, planning on a cycle Sunday if its in better shape. 2 weeks left of the 10km plan before my 10km race and then onto the HH.

Avoid all injury prone sports once Im on the HH, no rugby, no soccer...have to make the DCM this year! Just swimming and cycling for cross from now on.

RayCun

Monday | Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3m/5k run|3m/5k with 5*100m strides|3m/5k run|rest|cross|6m/10k LSR

• Some of you are following another plan - that's fine, work away
• Some of you have already started Hal Higdon Novice 1 - that's also fine. If you like you can do the 'strides' bit in your midweek run
• If you're following the Higdon plan, and starting this week, you don't have to do the runs on the days above.
  The long run is usually on the weekend, because that's when people tend to have more time, but it can be Saturday or Sunday. You can run midweek if that works better for you.
  Have at least one day of no running before your long run.
  Run the Wednesday and Thursday runs on consecutive days, if not necessarily Wed and Thurs.
• All runs should be at an easy pace, and the long run even easier. 6 miles isn't so far, you mightn't see the need to run it more slowly. But these long runs will increase in distance pretty quickly, you should get into the habit of running them slowly

5 x 100 metre strides

These are an optional part of the plan, they're not part of the original Higdon programme. I'll be throwing these faster bits into the midweek run, just for a bit of variety. You don't need to do them, but I think they'll help.

For 100m strides, accelerate until you're running at 80-90% of your maximum speed, whatever that is. Hold that pace for about 100 metres (count to 15 in your head, should be close enough). When you are running, try to focus on maintaining good running form - keep your upper body relaxed, your back straight and head up, your arms pumping forward and back, not side to side. (If that feels like too much to think of, focus on one element in each set of strides.) Don't stop dead after the 100m, just relax back down to your regular pace.

Do your first 100m strides after about a mile/2k of running at your regular, easy pace. Wait until your breathing has recovered and you're running easily before doing your second set. Pick a stretch of road or path where you'll have a clear run when you start each set.

This should help improve your running form, making you more efficient and saving you energy on longer distance runs. Plus I always find my regular pace is faster after doing a set of strides!

ecoli

RayCun wrote: »

[/LIST]
5 x 100 metre strides

These are an optional part of the plan, they're not part of the original Higdon programme. I'll be throwing these faster bits into the midweek run, just for a bit of variety. You don't need to do them, but I think they'll help.

For 100m strides, accelerate until you're running at 80-90% of your maximum speed, whatever that is. Hold that pace for about 100 metres (count to 15 in your head, should be close enough). When you are running, try to focus on maintaining good running form - keep your upper body relaxed, your back straight and head up, your arms pumping forward and back, not side to side. (If that feels like too much to think of, focus on one element in each set of strides.) Don't stop dead after the 100m, just relax back down to your regular pace.

Do your first 100m strides after about a mile/2k of running at your regular, easy pace. Wait until your breathing has recovered and you're running easily before doing your second set. Pick a stretch of road or path where you'll have a clear run when you start each set.

This should help improve your running form, making you more efficient and saving you energy on longer distance runs. Plus I always find my regular pace is faster after doing a set of strides!

Normally I would say to hit these at roughly 5k/10k pace. (On a scale of 1-10 ten being all out sprint would put these about a 7) As Ray said all about maintaining good form at a quicker than normal pace

ger664

ecoli wrote: »

Normally I would say to hit these at roughly 5k/10k pace. (On a scale of 1-10 ten being all out sprint would put these about a 7) As Ray said all about maintaining good form at a quicker than normal pace

I would totally agree with this. When I introduced these last year to my routine I did them flat out at first and did my right hamstring as a result.

secondspring

Hi All,

I decided to do the DCM a few months ago and have recently discovered this thread so though I might as well say hello!


I'm 27 and have been running on and off for about 2 years. I've very limited race experience with my only race in the last year being the Great Ireland Run this year that I finished in 50.15



I have no other expectations for the DCM other than to get through it. I would love to be under 4 hours, and while I think that's achievable, I'm not going to dwell on it.

My personal best (in training) are:

5k - 22.10

10k - 45.50


My upper limit of my LSR's in the past have been around the 20k mark, but not timed unfortunately.


I was a bit disappointed with my Great Ireland Run time, but it was a very warm day, with people dropping like flies around me... so didn't want to risk crashing. I knocked four minutes off it a week later and felt that that was a better indication of my fitness level.


I'm normally around the 5 min/km mark and actually have difficulty getting off that no matter what type of run I'm trying to do. I seem to only have 1 speed when running!

I'm following the Hal Higdon Novice 1 (starting this tuesday) but like the idea of varying it slightly as above.

Also planning on doing the DCM race series.


A few questions...

I do around 100k a week on the bike commuting to work. Is this something I should factor in to my training? Its always given me a good base of fitness... is it worth expanding on while training?

I play a bit of squash and plan to use this as my cross activity. It's a pretty intense game though and I'm usually fairly destroyed afterwards. Maybe its a bit too intense as a cross activity?


I've been looking for advice on my diet too. If anything, I need to put on weight but I'm more concerned about energy levels while training, particularly the LSR's. Any advice on that front?

Keep up the good work on the thread. It's great to be able to see everyone's progress as the weeks roll on!

Cheers


SS

RayCun

You should be well capable of going under 4 hours based on those times.

One of the reasons those strides are included is that it is very easy to end up doing all of your runs at the same pace. If you learn how to run a bit faster on some runs, maybe you'll also learn how to run slower too. It takes a bit of concentration at first, but you can slow down. And its better to start those LSRs and finish them at the same steady pace than to start off at 5 minute kms and crawl in at 6 or 7 minute kms.

There's no need to expand on the cycling, just keep doing what you're doing. You'll have to keep an eye on the squash - I wouldn't be worried about the intensity, as such, but is it giving your legs a chance to recover? And are you risking picking up strains or twists?

ecoli

RayCun wrote: »

You should be well capable of going under 4 hours based on those times.

One of the reasons those strides are included is that it is very easy to end up doing all of your runs at the same pace. If you learn how to run a bit faster on some runs, maybe you'll also learn how to run slower too. It takes a bit of concentration at first, but you can slow down. And its better to start those LSRs and finish them at the same steady pace than to start off at 5 minute kms and crawl in at 6 or 7 minute kms.

This is one of the most important things to learn about running. Everything does not need to be done at quicker paces. Faster does not always equal better. Most of your training (60-80% of weekly mileage) should be conducted at slower than race pace.
You will get the same if not more benefit from slowing your runs down as the majority of people (especially here) make the mistake of running their easy days too fast

Live by the following "Easy days easy, Hard days hard"

secondspring

Thanks guys,

I'll keep you posted on how I get on!

cr17

Hey all, starting training for my first marathon today. Running on and off for last two years, currently doing about 20 miles a week the last 4 months now. My longest race being a 10 mile last year.

P.B for 10k is 47:31

Hoping to finish uder 4 hrs but I am secretly hoping for around 3:45 but we'll see how training goes in next few weeks and months.

Following Hal Higdon Intermediate 1 program as I think I have a good base and that the Novice might frustrate me, but I understand the principles of it, I,ll reassess in a few weeks.

Best of luck to all 1st Timers. looing forward to seeing progress and getting advice.

Bally8

Best of luck to everyone starting this week. Ekk its very exciting!!

househunter

My plan starts today with a rest day which is well needed after Dunshaughlin 10k at the weekend. Don't think i've ever felt so awful after a race! Got the time I was aiming for though so am happy bout that!

Good luck to everyone starting this week!

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

This is one of the most important things to learn about running. Everything does not need to be done at quicker paces. Faster does not always equal better. Most of your training (60-80% of weekly mileage) should be conducted at slower than race pace.
You will get the same if not more benefit from slowing your runs down as the majority of people (especially here) make the mistake of running their easy days too fast

Live by the following "Easy days easy, Hard days hard"

Thats the best advise out there and the key to staying injury free, every run of the week jsut think before you go out the door as to what this run is for ie recovery, session etc and stick to the plan.

curv

Good luck to everyone starting the DCM training this week

Duckee

Good luck to everyone starting the DCM training

I'm starting this week also. 'Ran' the DCM last year but inconsistent training led to my body clapping out half way round the circuit and I came in over 5 and a half hours :mad:

So in the spirit of taking it more seriously this year (and probably having a better base now) I'm starting novice training again and hope to come in sub 4:30.

I had a question about the cross training though if anyone can help. I was thinking of doing some bodyweight workouts/weight training on my cross day, but am a bit worried that it will be too much, especially as it comes in the day before the long run. I would like to develop some muscle (especially when it comes to core strength) but would I be better off swimming/cycling for cross instead?

RayCun

Duckee wrote: »

I had a question about the cross training though if anyone can help. I was thinking of doing some bodyweight workouts/weight training on my cross day, but am a bit worried that it will be too much, especially as it comes in the day before the long run. I would like to develop some muscle (especially when it comes to core strength) but would I be better off swimming/cycling for cross instead?

Swimming/cycling will help with cardio fitness, but you don't need to do anything on cross days. As long as you're not running (and not doing something else that risks injury) it's fine. Weight training is fine, going for a walk is fine, just taking a rest day is fine.

Duckee

RayCun wrote: »

Swimming/cycling will help with cardio fitness, but you don't need to do anything on cross days. As long as you're not running (and not doing something else that risks injury) it's fine. Weight training is fine, going for a walk is fine, just taking a rest day is fine.

I guess I can just decide what to do based on how I feel each week so. Thanks for the advice

dodgyknees

hi there just looking for a programme for my first marathon in dublin i was staring a 22 week programme but ended up on antibiotics so havent ran in 3 weeks so starting to feel a bit of pressure,theirs 19 weeks to dcm and dont want to miss it this year .

merged- have a read over this thread- mod

Mr Slow

Most follow this one for their first.

Hal Higdon Novice 1

ger664

Anyone who has a good running base and has completed a half recently might consider this plan if they feel the Hal Hidgon Mileage is low for the first few weeks.

State of the art Plan

Bally8

So how is everyone doing? I started Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan last week to give myself a week extra in case of injury or life getting in the way.

Its going well so far, I'm on Week 2 Run 3 today- 3 miles. Im very surprised already though at how much its affecting my body. I think its the 3 days running in a row that has shocked my system a bit. Im already achey and stiff walking around! Loving my running at the moment though -long may this feeling last

Nules10

Bally8 wrote: »

So how is everyone doing? I started Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan last week to give myself a week extra in case of injury or life getting in the way.

Its going well so far, I'm on Week 2 Run 3 today- 3 miles. Im very surprised already though at how much its affecting my body. I think its the 3 days running in a row that has shocked my system a bit. Im already achey and stiff walking around! Loving my running at the moment though -long may this feeling last

I have to say i found the first two weeks of the plan tough going too. I am on week 5 of the plan... not sure if i have started way too early :rolleyes: but again its to allow for things that may crop up over the next few months. And i am getting into it now. But have to admit kind of dreading the long runs a bit now that they are going into double figures.

RayCun

Nules10 wrote: »

But have to admit kind of dreading the long runs a bit now that they are going into double figures.

Take them slow and easy. Make sure you have access to water, and maybe bring a gel, for the psychological boost if nothing else. If you can run with some other people it makes the time go faster, if not maybe listen to an ipod.

ger664

Bally8 wrote: »

Its going well so far, I'm on Week 2 Run 3 today- 3 miles. Im very surprised already though at how much its affecting my body. I think its the 3 days running in a row that has shocked my system a bit. Im already achey and stiff walking around! Loving my running at the moment though -long may this feeling last

The 3 Days running is tough to get used to. Remember the rule always have an easy session after a hard one. Day 1 and 3 should be done at a very slow easy recovery pace. Day 2 should be a harder session at higher pace but slower then your PMP.

Muscle soreness and Injury Prevention
Every session should start with an easy/recovery mile or 2. If you are still sore after this,stop and do some gentle stretches on the effected area, if it still sore or hurts stop and rest for a few days.

neilc

RayCun wrote: »

Take them slow and easy. Make sure you have access to water, and maybe bring a gel, for the psychological boost if nothing else. If you can run with some other people it makes the time go faster, if not maybe listen to an ipod.

Good advice, I always have water once the distance goes into double digits but lately I've also started taking gels every 5 or 6 miles on the long runs and have definitely noticed the difference.

househunter

Am on day 4 but only run once so far and that was a very slow 9 miles Really kept to plan and made myself run slower than I ever have for that length of a run.
2nd run is tonight. Bit of a harder one but should be ok I think.

menoscemo

For anyone interested we are having our first group LSR of the season on saturday. Myself and Pistol 75 are meeting at the papal cross at 9am for 16 miles. Feel free to come along for any part of that distance, we can vary the oute to loop back to the car park for wahtever distance you are doing.... The pace will initially be around 9'30/mile though we can go a little slower if anyone wishes.

keep an eye on this thread for LSR plans every week.