Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

Mr Slow

rom wrote: »

28 running since Sept Did two 1/2 marathons Distance races Cork 1/2 yesterday 1:52:35 (felt very good after it, could have done a few more miles) Bantry Bay run (hilly) start of may 1:58:something (was hell, dehydrated, started too fast and Mallow 10 mile 81mins 5secs (pretty flat) I would like to do sub 4 hours and dublin. Is it too obtomistic. Short races 4 miles - 29 mins. I really like distance running, Lots of the programs only have a single long run in a week. Looking for a training program for to get me in under 4. I feel that I could train a lot harder than I am currently. 35Mile weeks have been ok for me which was probably 3 x 10 milers. I read that it is a good idea to have two paris of shoes so the bounce can return to the 2nd pair. Knee do take a battering. Just over 13 Stone.

Follow a training plan with sub 4 in mind (ie with paced runs at that target pace), no plan will guarantee you a result, if you're in Dublin do the race series, it will give a good indication of how your training is progressing. The half especially about a month before DCM will give the best indication as to whether or not sub 4 is on the cards for you.

rom

mrslow wrote: »

Follow a training plan with sub 4 in mind (ie with paced runs at that target pace), no plan will guarantee you a result, if you're in Dublin do the race series, it will give a good indication of how your training is progressing. The half especially about a month before DCM will give the best indication as to whether or not sub 4 is on the cards for you.

What kind of time should I need to be getting for 1/2 for sub 4 you think if I have the training done correctly for the full. Mcmillian is over optomistic with approx double plus 10 mins.

rainbow kirby

rom wrote: »

What kind of time should I need to be getting for 1/2 for sub 4 you think if I have the training done correctly for the full. Mcmillian is over optomistic with approx double plus 10 mins.

Depends really - if you plan to go sub-4 in your first, then a half in about 1:45-1:50 would be fairly reasonable. I'm a bit of an outlier in that I've broken 4 hours for the marathon (not my first though, broke 4 in my third one), but my half PB is about 3 minutes slower than yours.

floyd333

Hi,

I'm doing the DCM in October. It's my first full marathon.

I've done 3 halfs this year
Waterford, 1:37, (PB with little training)
Connemara, 1:39
Wexford, 1:37 (Windy conditions)

I'd like to go under 3:15 in Dublin. I know it's a big ask for my first but I want to try.

just looking at plans now. I bought the P&D book. Would I have a chance of hitting my goal time with the P&D 18 week 55 mile plan? If not could you recommend other suitable plans?

Cheers.

rom

floyd333 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm doing the DCM in October. It's my first full marathon.

I've done 3 halfs this year
Waterford, 1:37, (PB with little training)
Connemara, 1:39
Wexford, 1:37 (Windy conditions)

I'd like to go under 3:15 in Dublin. I know it's a big ask for my first but I want to try.

just looking at plans now. I bought the P&D book. Would I have a chance of hitting my goal time with the P&D 18 week 55 mile plan? If not could you recommend other suitable plans?

Cheers?

Guy I know did Bandon (which was very hilly) half in 1:31 a few weeks ago and was really happy with 3:29 in Cork (which was very flat) full for his first the other day. He is a full time personal trainer and probably followed a program to a T. Everyone is different but mcmillan says it should take you 3:25 ish also as a guide.

RayCun

I'll post the first week's training plan (and start my own training) two weeks from now.
So how are you all feeling? Nervous? Scared ****less? Relaxed and confident? :pac:
Has anyone started their programme early? Higdon Novice1 or a different plan?

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

I'll post the first week's training plan (and start my own training) two weeks from now.
So how are you all feeling? Nervous? Scared ****less? Relaxed and confident? :pac:
Has anyone started their programme early? Higdon Novice1 or a different plan?

What time are you chasing Ray?

RayCun

mrslow wrote: »

What time are you chasing Ray?

Why, so you can target a minute faster? :pac:
3.20, probably. I'll take my training paces from that time anyway, and see how things go in the race series.
I thought you couldn't run Dublin anyway?

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

Why, so you can target a minute faster? :pac:
3.20, probably. I'll take my training paces from that time anyway, and see how things go in the race series.
I thought you couldn't run Dublin anyway?

Now that I'm doing a 12 week schedule there's no problem, I'll maintain fitness/endurance for the next 2 months and repeat the schedule I've just done at the faster pace. I'll be thrilled with sub 3:30.

Are you following the 55 or 70 mile schedule?

RayCun

the <55 schedule, more or less. Club sessions Tuesday and Thursday, weekend running is from the plan.

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

the <55 schedule, more or less. Club sessions Tuesday and Thursday, weekend running is from the plan.

Will the club sessions interfere with the back to back runs midweek?

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

3.20, probably.

7:30 pace? :eek:

RayCun

4.45 pace
MacMillan says my 5k times are in line with that, and my 5 mile just outside - but as I said, I'll see how the race series goes.

My midweek training won't be from P&D at all, it'll be club Tuesday, recovery Wednesday, club Thursday, so I won't have the distance of the P&D sessions but (in some weeks at least) they'll be harder sessions. Friday/Saturday/Sunday will be closer to P&D, but I'll have to work around races, and will only be able to do recovery runs on Friday, so it won't be exact there either.

I'll get all of the longest runs, and long runs with PMP miles, in so I'm not too worried about going off-plan for the other sessions.

Mr Slow

Mcmillan's pretty optimistic when it comes to marathons imo, I won't be chasing sub 3:20 until I have the time to put in a 70 mile plus week. (Then again I may change my mind just to run past you :cool:)

It sounds like you're going to have a Summer full of juggling;)

LaHaine

RayCun wrote: »

I'll post the first week's training plan (and start my own training) two weeks from now.
So how are you all feeling? Nervous? Scared ****less? Relaxed and confident? :pac:
Has anyone started their programme early? Higdon Novice1 or a different plan?

I havent started my programme yet but ive been making a big effort to increase my milage and to get into the habit of running no matter how busy I am

Im nervous and excited in equal measure. Since the great ireland run ive gotten my ten k time down from 54.30 to 48.30 so im getting a big more confident that im not the worst runner in the world. Also, ive lost a lot of weight so hopefully im starting this in a good position.

Then again, my big mouth means a lot of people know im doing it. Its become a very big deal for me so id hate to not complete it or get injjured. Which, I know can happen to the best runners nevermind me.

Im going to follow hal higdons novice 2 plan and my main goal is to finish. Sub 4 would be amazing but ill see how training goes. Looking forward to seeing other peoples progression and training!

Mr Slow

LaHaine wrote: »

I havent started my programme yet but ive been making a big effort to increase my milage and to get into the habit of running no matter how busy I am

Im nervous and excited in equal measure. Since the great ireland run ive gotten my ten k time down from 54.30 to 48.30 so im getting a big more confident that im not the worst runner in the world. Also, ive lost a lot of weight so hopefully im starting this in a good position.

Then again, my big mouth means a lot of people know im doing it. Its become a very big deal for me so id hate to not complete it or get injjured. Which, I know can happen to the best runners nevermind me.

Im going to follow hal higdons novice 2 plan and my main goal is to finish. Sub 4 would be amazing but ill see how training goes. Looking forward to seeing other peoples progression and training!

Ray pointed out at the beginning of this thread that everyone who made it to the start line made it to the finish from last year's thread, look after yourself in training and you'll do fine.

ecoli

LaHaine wrote: »

I havent started my programme yet but ive been making a big effort to increase my milage and to get into the habit of running no matter how busy I am

Im nervous and excited in equal measure. Since the great ireland run ive gotten my ten k time down from 54.30 to 48.30 so im getting a big more confident that im not the worst runner in the world. Also, ive lost a lot of weight so hopefully im starting this in a good position.

Then again, my big mouth means a lot of people know im doing it. Its become a very big deal for me so id hate to not complete it or get injjured. Which, I know can happen to the best runners nevermind me.

Im going to follow hal higdons novice 2 plan and my main goal is to finish. Sub 4 would be amazing but ill see how training goes. Looking forward to seeing other peoples progression and training!

Its not always a bad thing to tell everyone and their uncle you are doing it sometimes its a motivation to get out on them tough days

Few tips to try remain injury free from my own personal experience

Stretching: Does not have to be done at the time before your run just stretch often when you can. Look at stretching like you would a run. This can be something to do on your days off or ten min before your leave the office or before you go to bed. Just be sure when you stretching remember not to over stretch and breath during your stretches to allow the muscles relax

H2o: Hydration is important. If you are dehydrated the cells in your muscles become tight and turgid. This increases the risk of pulling something. Where you can have a bottle of water beside you and swig often

Listen to your body: If you feel a niggle or that get it checked or look at it. Often cheaper to go once to get a niggle checked than going to a physio 1-2 times a week for a few weeks. Dont feel guilty if you need to take time off because of a niggle and dont rush back to try make up for missing training. Stick to schedule and dont try make up for lost time

Perkina3

mrslow wrote: »

Ray pointed out at the beginning of this thread that everyone who made it to the start line made it to the finish from last year's thread, look after yourself in training and you'll do fine.

Would like to just second the above...Once you get to that start line you will run, walk, crawl...... be dragged over that finish line. Any niggles or injuries make sure you get them looked at ASAP and get them fixed. Don't try and train through it.... it will make it worse....

Nules10

I am at the end of my second week of my programme. Following HH novice1 but want to vary some of the mid week runs with tempos, hill reps and intervals. Should i just take it week to week or have it more structured than that??

Joeyde

Hi all,

Want to jump in here, been reading it for a bit so might at well post. Running 2 years now but had a 5 month break for an injury. Back strong the last couple of months and competing in sprint triathlons. Only one timed 5km race of 21:30 couple of weeks ago. I run 10kms training in around 50mins but never pushed for a race. Hope to do a few races in the next few weeks to get times. I do alot of cycling and swimming at the moment so I will fit the running in more and wont have to worry about cross training :P.

Im aiming for sub four and just looking over plans. Might do the HH but with interval training thrown in once/twice a week as I think it has benefited me greatly over the last couple of months.

Hoping this thread will keep me focused and out getting the miles in the legs.

Mr Slow

There will be group long runs in the Phoenix Park announced on this thread once the average long run is up around 10/12 miles. This year there will be 2 pace groups. 9:30 - 10 min miles and 8:30 - 9 min miles.

RayCun

Nules10 wrote: »

I am at the end of my second week of my programme. Following HH novice1 but want to vary some of the mid week runs with tempos, hill reps and intervals. Should i just take it week to week or have it more structured than that??

Week to week is fine. When I start posting the weekly plans I'll include different midweek runs.

Joeyde

To avoid confusion and to get into the habit are we going to be always working in miles? Can we have a standard? Im working in KM all the time so if we are working on mileage RE pace and distances I will swap now to get used to it. Sounds stupid probably but I find it a pain switching between but not bothered which which I work in.

RayCun

I can post the distances in both miles and km.
There is no particular pace set in the plan, so it doesn't matter whether you are running 6 minute kms or 10 minute miles

Joeyde

Thanks Raycun, much appreciated. And thanks for the time and effort on the thread.

Im thinking of doing a 10km training plan for the first 2 months before jumping into the plan. I see some other threads suggesting it. I think Im going to start the sub 45 plan for 8 weeks and then join the marathon specific training for the remaining 12. I want to improve my 10km and my speed, seen as I have a bit of a base already Im hoping this will healp me reach my sub 4 goal.

any thoughts?

RayCun

The people doing a 10k training plan first, time it so that the 10k plan finishes before the marathon training begins. Which 10k plan are you thinking of doing, and how much do you run now? Week 7 of the Higdon Novice 1 plan is 3/6/3/12 miles (5/10/5/20 km) - if you are running that kind of distance now, and at the end of your 10k plan, it could work. But if that would be a big step up then you should follow the marathon training plan from the start so you are building gradually.

Joeyde

RayCun wrote: »

Week 7 of the Higdon Novice 1 plan is 3/6/3/12 miles (5/10/5/20 km) - if you are running that kind of distance now, and at the end of your 10k plan, it could work. But if that would be a big step up then you should follow the marathon training plan from the start so you are building gradually.

Thanks RayCun, I understand what your saying, I going to do the time to run sub45 min plan which has some longer runs and Ill tailor it so I can jump in to the HH. I think it suits my fitness and goals at the moment. Ill keep some updates of my progress and how the transition goes later on. Hoping to join some boardsies for the LSR pace runs in the park later on in the programme.

POC123

Hi...This may be in the wrong thread but I need your help!!!
I'm a relative novice...only started running 2 years ago after giving up playing competitive football...did the 2009 DCM in 4:15 (hadnt really been following any plan...I did the race series in the park and figured that I might try the DCM...even if I had to walk a mile, run a mile after 15 or 16 miles).
I took a year off to 'carb load'...i.e. put on 3 stone by eating ice-cream, crisps and lot and lots of malteasers and yorkies....before deciding last September to give it another go.
Lost the 3 stone again and had was doing about 20 mile per week by Jan. Decided to do the run republic plan for the Belfast Marathon at start of May...deviated from the plan 4 weeks before hand and ran a measured 26.2 in 3:33 (instead of the 20mile LSR)...as a result I made a hash of Belfast, painfully finishing in 3:52 and lots of cramping.
Signed up right away after that to do Cork...had a very comfortable run there (met Mr Slow for a few miles around the halfway point as I/we followed the 3:45 pacers...I think we agreed i was a boards.ie lurker...so decided to take the plunge and sign in!!!)...nothing in the legs to push home after 17 miles...came in at 3:52 again but no pain or cramping so happy with that.
Plan was to rest for a few months and keep a 15-20 mile base and then do DCM 2011 witha 3:30 training plan.....but...
I signed up to do the dingle marathon in September (11 weeks from this Saturday) and dont really know whast to do in terms of training/rest/LSR's etc...
Do I jump in at week 5 of a 16 week plan or do I trawl the web to try and find some hybrid 11 week plan?? Sucess for me in Dingle would be in around 3:50...its meant to be pretty hilly esp towards the end...
Any ideas...I'm really just making it up as I go with training but have started doing some speed/interval runs

Still hoping to do the DCM in October...would love to do a 3:30

Thanks!

Mr Slow

POC123 wrote: »

Hi...This may be in the wrong thread but I need your help!!!
I'm a relative novice...only started running 2 years ago after giving up playing competitive football...did the 2009 DCM in 4:15 (hadnt really been following any plan...I did the race series in the park and figured that I might try the DCM...even if I had to walk a mile, run a mile after 15 or 16 miles).
I took a year off to 'carb load'...i.e. put on 3 stone by eating ice-cream, crisps and lot and lots of malteasers and yorkies....before deciding last September to give it another go.
Lost the 3 stone again and had was doing about 20 mile per week by Jan. Decided to do the run republic plan for the Belfast Marathon at start of May...deviated from the plan 4 weeks before hand and ran a measured 26.2 in 3:33 (instead of the 20mile LSR)...as a result I made a hash of Belfast, painfully finishing in 3:52 and lots of cramping.
Signed up right away after that to do Cork...had a very comfortable run there (met Mr Slow for a few miles around the halfway point as I/we followed the 3:45 pacers...I think we agreed i was a boards.ie lurker...so decided to take the plunge and sign in!!!)...nothing in the legs to push home after 17 miles...came in at 3:52 again but no pain or cramping so happy with that.
Plan was to rest for a few months and keep a 15-20 mile base and then do DCM 2011 witha 3:30 training plan.....but...
I signed up to do the dingle marathon in September (11 weeks from this Saturday) and dont really know whast to do in terms of training/rest/LSR's etc...
Do I jump in at week 5 of a 16 week plan or do I trawl the web to try and find some hybrid 11 week plan?? Sucess for me in Dingle would be in around 3:50...its meant to be pretty hilly esp towards the end...
Any ideas...I'm really just making it up as I go with training but have started doing some speed/interval runs

Still hoping to do the DCM in October...would love to do a 3:30

Thanks!

Hello again, you were looking pretty comfortable in Cork. Did you have to let that nice blonde lady off or did she finish with you?:D

It seems to me that you're jumping the gun and rushing at these races, why not defer Dingle for the year and do a solid plan for DCM, we're 20 weeks out so that gives you 2 weeks to find a good plan. I can recommend P&D, it saw me to a very comfortable 3:43 (previous pb was 4:15). If you're determined to do Dingle they have a 12 week plan.

Note: I would not recommend P&D for those running their first marathon

RayCun

The improvers thread might be a better place for this, but anyway...

which plan were you going to follow for Dingle? What does week 5 of that plan look like compared to your current training? There are some 12 week marathon plans you could consider, eg. the Pfitziger and Douglas sub55 mile plan.

Dingle is pretty hilly, from what I know of it. And it looks like you're destroying your times by running too many marathons, and training too fast - your best time this year was on a 26.2 mile training run?