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Gardaí struggling to pay bills - AGSI
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And you know that the Garda in question didn't have all the qualifications for the job? That instead of letting his knowledge goto waste, his experience goto waste, they employ him? That his experience in the force didn't stand towards him?HellFireClub wrote: »I know folks on the dole with Hon. Degrees and Masters Degrees. You're talking out of your ar*ehole.0 -
HellFireClub wrote: »And you are obviously not the sharpest tool in the box yourself when you assume that people who are unemployed and on the dole are somehow not carrying a better qualifaction than a Leaving Cert. I know folks on the dole with Hon. Degrees and Masters Degrees. You're talking out of your ar*ehole.
I never said people on the dole arent qualified, but being on the dole doesnt automatically qualify you ahead of someone else.0 -
Less people in Ireland now than in 2008. Was it around 100,000?
That 1% of the guard may just have to get cut. Then there's no corruption to worry about.0 -
How the hell do they "muscle" their way into a job ?? What was stopping you from getting the job on the friday?? Maybe they were employed on merit, just because you werent good enough for the job.
Well maybe im totally wrong and theses guys are just lucky to be so sought after that they are head hunted for jobs on retirement:rolleyes:....so let me get this straight,im in my early 30's with qualifications and a proven employment history who has applied for probably 80 jobs in the last 6 months.I apply for a job in my local fuel depot....but Garda in his mid 50 retires manages to get the position ahead of me within a week of retiring. If you dont see a problem with this then you must have another agenda!!!0 -
Well maybe im totally wrong and theses guys are just lucky to be so sought after that they are head hunted for jobs on retirement:rolleyes:....so let me get this straight,im in my early 30's with qualifications and a proven employment history who has applied for probably 80 jobs in the last 6 months.I apply for a job in my local fuel depot....but Garda in his mid 50 retires manages to get the position ahead of me within a week of retiring. If you dont see a problem with this then you must have another agenda!!!
I still dont understand how he muscled his way into the job. maybe its more the employer you should have beef with?0 -
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Well maybe im totally wrong and theses guys are just lucky to be so sought after that they are head hunted for jobs on retirement:rolleyes:....so let me get this straight,im in my early 30's with qualifications and a proven employment history who has applied for probably 80 jobs in the last 6 months.I apply for a job in my local fuel depot....but Garda in his mid 50 retires manages to get the position ahead of me within a week of retiring. If you dont see a problem with this then you must have another agenda!!!
Maybe he knew the fella who owned the garage? It's the private sector, they can hire who they want, not who's the best for the job. Not like the independent recruitment competitions held for most PS jobs like the civil service/army/guards/fire service etc...Ironic huh?0 -
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Well maybe im totally wrong and theses guys are just lucky to be so sought after that they are head hunted for jobs on retirement:rolleyes:....so let me get this straight,im in my early 30's with qualifications and a proven employment history who has applied for probably 80 jobs in the last 6 months.I apply for a job in my local fuel depot....but Garda in his mid 50 retires manages to get the position ahead of me within a week of retiring. If you dont see a problem with this then you must have another agenda!!!
Good to see an employer going with an older person. Loads of ageism out there.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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I never said people on the dole arent qualified, but being on the dole doesnt automatically qualify you ahead of someone else.
I never said it did. What I said was that it is a stupid state policy that pays a Garda a very generous pension payment, a very generous lump sum, then after this Garda has retired, and he then commences another overpaid PS number for himself, but the state should continue paying the unemployed man/woman 10K a year without trying to save themselves 10K a year by marrying up the very possibly well qualified unemployed person, with what is in all reality, a LOW SKILLED PS counter job in the dole office.
You obviously think that it makes more sense to effectively reserve that job for the local Garda who is in the know with the decision makers in the community and can obviously use his influence to secure this type of vacancy that the unemployed person may never even be aware of, and to continue paying 10K a year to the person who is unemployed and to pursue this clearly braindead policy up and down the country.
How did the Garda manage to get the job when the situation is that there is a recruitment embargo on in the public sector??? Answer me that!0 -
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While I do have some sympathy for members of AGS struggling to pay their bills etc, I have a major issue with them demanding a payrise because a few of them are living beyond their means.
I have bills, mortgage etc like most people in this country, but I try to live within my means. I haven't had a payrise in a number of years and I'm worse off than I was a few years ago due to increased cost of living, fuel costs, higher tax rates etc. However, my employer would laugh at me I demanded a payrise because I couldn't afford to pay my bills etc.
Yes I have a job in the private sector, but at no stage did I ever earn the amounts being quoted here as the average AGS pay rates. So how come I can still afford to live? I adjusted my spending to meet my income, I made cut backs where required and cut out all the extras that were not a necessity for living, cut back on the nights out and tightened the belt.
If anyone in AGS started classing their overtime as a standard portion of their income and getting mortgages and loans based on that than they were foolish to do so. If they stretched themselves financially, then thats hardly the taxpayers fault and why should they have to bail them out?
Between benchmarking and guaranteed overtime, a member of AGS had a very very decent income, a hell of a lot more than I ever earned so crying poverty when all this comes crashing down is going to get little sympathy from me.
Tox0 -
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HellFireClub wrote: »
How did the Garda manage to get the job when the situation is that there is a recruitment embargo on in the public sector??? Answer me that!
Huh? The job I took it was in the Private Sector? A fuel depot?Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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And you are obviously not the sharpest tool in the box yourself when you assume that people who are in the Guards are somehow not carrying a better qualifaction than a Leaving Cert. I know folks in the Guards with Hon. Degrees and Masters Degrees and Doctorates. You're talking out of your ar*ehole.
Minimum entry requirement into the Gardai is a Leaving Certificate. I know several Gardai who have no other qualification than their Leaving Cert. It is fully possible to commence your service as a Garda with a Leaving cert and retire at the end of your career holding the the same qualification.
I don't see how being a Garda distinctly qualifies a person above the consideration of all others, for a low skilled counter job in a dole office, and especially so when there is apparently a recruitment freeze on.0 -
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ToxicPaddy wrote: »While I do have some sympathy for members of AGS struggling to pay their bills etc, I have a major issue with them demanding a payrise because a few of them are living beyond their means.
They're not demanding a pay rise.0 -
HellFireClub wrote: »Minimum entry requirement into the Gardai is a Leaving Certificate. I know several Gardai who have no other qualification than their Leaving Cert. It is fully possible to commence your service as a Garda with a Leaving cert and retire at the end of your career holding the the same qualification.
I don't see how being a Garda distinctly qualifies a person above the consideration of all others, for a low skilled counter job in a dole office, and especially so when there is apparently a recruitment freeze on.
Do you have a job? Have you recently had a job interview? People aren't hired simply on their qualifications, life experience counts for a lot more when going for a job. Someone with a degree from Trinity who's straight out of college won't get a job over someone with a degree from an IT who has 4 years job experience. You really seem to have some sort of superiority complex over guards with their lowly LC and low skill dole office jobs. Maybe the guard got the job because he was good at dealing with members of the public, I dunno, but everything isn't biased against you HellFireClub!!HellFireClub wrote: »I'm referring to a previous poster who stated that he was unemployed and witnessed a local Garda recently retiring and landing a job in the local dole office the following week.
So your basing your arguement on second hand evidence from a boards poster? You actually know none of the details of this particular situation? And you expect your arguements to be taken as reasoned and unbiased? Good man.0 -
Do you have a job? Have you recently had a job interview? People aren't hired simply on their qualifications, life experience counts for a lot more when going for a job. Someone with a degree from Trinity who's straight out of college won't get a job over someone with a degree from an IT who has 4 years job experience. You really seem to have some sort of superiority complex over guards with their lowly LC and low skill dole office jobs. Maybe the guard got the job because he was good at dealing with members of the public, I dunno, but everything isn't biased against you HellFireClub!!
So your basing your arguement on second hand evidence from a boards poster? You actually know none of the details of this particular situation? And you expect your arguements to be taken as reasoned and unbiased? Good man.
I didn't have a job until recently. I lost my job due to a business closure. I started up my own business and now I've a job. That's for another thead if you want to get into how the PS spastics in every government department that I had to deal with nearly caused me to jump into the nearest f*cking river with their bullsh*t and beaurocracy.
I'm speaking from my own first hand experience, when as I said, I recently went for an interview and was told to my face that my lack of experience of working in a PS environment was something that was going to go against me. I was told this to my face and whether you believe that or not is not something I'm interested in debating with you as I know what I was told.
As for qualifications -vs- experience, I previously ran my own business, I know what a hiring process is because I hired people myself, I know how to evaluate an application, I've no attitude prob as you claim or superiority complex with regard to Gardai having a Leaving cert to get their job.
I'm still making the point which you will refuse to hear, that there is nothing amazingly intricate about a position in a dole office, which makes a Garda especially qualified for such a role over another person with comparable experience in a similar job.
You cannot just face up to the logical and entirely rational argument that if we are going to start fixing this country, we need to put the whole legal mindset aside for a few minutes and start using a bit of basic f*cking cop on.
It doesn't make sense to allow a Garda on a 50K a year pension, who has just received a 100K tax free lump sum, to retire on this kind of a benefit and then the following week, to take up another highly paid job, thereby taking his gross income possibly up to 100K a year although he is meant to be retired. Meanwhile, we are paying this guy 100K a year to sit at a f*cking dole counter and hand out signing on cards, while there are 300 people in a queue in front of him without a job costing the state 56K a week!!!
We need to start calling this kind of insane bullsh*t for the selfish and state destroying absolute nonsense that it is. No more handy numbers for anyone, obtained on the basis of the nod and the wink, that's what has this country broke and enough is enough is what I say.0 -
so basically you're pissed off because a retired public sector worker with likely 20-30 years experience got a job in the public sector over a person who has no experience with the public sector but a degree,by your logic a CEO of a company in the private sector would be a great doctor because he/she has a business degree.HellFireClub wrote: »I didn't have a job until recently. I lost my job due to a business closure. I started up my own business and now I've a job. That's for another thead if you want to get into how the PS spastics in every government department that I had to deal with nearly caused me to jump into the nearest f*cking river with their bullsh*t and beaurocracy.
I'm speaking from my own first hand experience, when as I said, I recently went for an interview and was told to my face that my lack of experience of working in a PS environment was something that was going to go against me. I was told this to my face and whether you believe that or not is not something I'm interested in debating with you as I know what I was told.
As for qualifications -vs- experience, I previously ran my own business, I know what a hiring process is because I hired people myself, I know how to evaluate an application, I've no attitude prob as you claim or superiority complex with regard to Gardai having a Leaving cert to get their job.
I'm still making the point which you will refuse to hear, that there is nothing amazingly intricate about a position in a dole office, which makes a Garda especially qualified for such a role over another person with comparable experience in a similar job.
You cannot just face up to the logical and entirely rational argument that if we are going to start fixing this country, we need to put the whole legal mindset aside for a few minutes and start using a bit of basic f*cking cop on.
It doesn't make sense to allow a Garda on a 50K a year pension, who has just received a 100K tax free lump sum, to retire on this kind of a benefit and then the following week, to take up another highly paid job, thereby taking his gross income possibly up to 100K a year although he is meant to be retired. Meanwhile, we are paying this guy 100K a year to sit at a f*cking dole counter and hand out signing on cards, while there are 300 people in a queue in front of him without a job costing the state 56K a week!!!
We need to start calling this kind of insane bullsh*t for the selfish and state destroying absolute nonsense that it is. No more handy numbers for anyone, obtained on the basis of the nod and the wink, that's what has this country broke and enough is enough is what I say.0 -
so basically you're pissed off because a retired public sector worker with likely 20-30 years experience got a job in the public sector over a person who has no experience with the public sector but a degree,by your logic a CEO of a company in the private sector would be a great doctor because he/she has a business degree.
By my logic, it doesn't make sense to pay the retired Garda anywhere up to 100K a year, (50K pension and up to 50K PS salary for doing a job that doesn't require 30 years experience), sitting at a counter handing out signing on cards, while there are people who would give their right hand for such an opportunity, who are queuing in the same dole office.
You clearly think that a PS worker is somehow entitled to first refusal on these kind of vacancies simply because they have previously worked in a PS environment, like some kind of little, "insider" arrangement between the boyo's in the PS...
The irony of the fact that you are paying for all of this rediculous excess in higher taxes, USC's, levy's, etc, stuff that you and your number are hopping mad over, seems to be completely and utter lost on you.0 -
you still can't seem to understand that,that garda has dealt with the public day in day out for the past 20-30 years,he knows and has investigative qualities which are essential in the dole office and public relations that no degree would give you he is the perfect person for a dole office job,i'm not saying that any public servant should be given a public servant job just because of they worked in the public service for example a carpentry teacher in Fás shouldn't be given a dole office job.In my opinion that garda would be a huge asset to the ground level social welfare staff and the public and a person who has a degree should never be picked over another person just because they have a degree and no experience,it all comes down to the best person suited for the job,which the garda was.HellFireClub wrote: »By my logic, it doesn't make sense to pay the retired Garda anywhere up to 100K a year, (50K pension and up to 50K PS salary for doing a job that doesn't require 30 years experience), sitting at a counter handing out signing on cards, while there are people who would give their right hand for such an opportunity, who are queuing in the same dole office.
You clearly think that a PS worker is somehow entitled to first refusal on these kind of vacancies simply because they have previously worked in a PS environment, like some kind of little, "insider" arrangement between the boyo's in the PS...
The irony of the fact that you are paying for all of this rediculous excess in higher taxes, USC's, levy's, etc, stuff that you and your number are hopping mad over, seems to be completely and utter lost on you.0 -
Huh? The job I took it was in the Private Sector? A fuel depot?
Ah right, read back there, I took it up wrong.HellFireClub wrote: »I didn't have a job until recently. I lost my job due to a business closure. I started up my own business and now I've a job. That's for another thead if you want to get into how the PS spastics in every government department that I had to deal with nearly caused me to jump into the nearest f*cking river with their bullsh*t and beaurocracy.
I'm speaking from my own first hand experience, when as I said, I recently went for an interview and was told to my face that my lack of experience of working in a PS environment was something that was going to go against me. I was told this to my face and whether you believe that or not is not something I'm interested in debating with you as I know what I was told.
As for qualifications -vs- experience, I previously ran my own business, I know what a hiring process is because I hired people myself, I know how to evaluate an application, I've no attitude prob as you claim or superiority complex with regard to Gardai having a Leaving cert to get their job.
I'm still making the point which you will refuse to hear, that there is nothing amazingly intricate about a position in a dole office, which makes a Garda especially qualified for such a role over another person with comparable experience in a similar job.
You cannot just face up to the logical and entirely rational argument that if we are going to start fixing this country, we need to put the whole legal mindset aside for a few minutes and start using a bit of basic f*cking cop on.
It doesn't make sense to allow a Garda on a 50K a year pension, who has just received a 100K tax free lump sum, to retire on this kind of a benefit and then the following week, to take up another highly paid job, thereby taking his gross income possibly up to 100K a year although he is meant to be retired. Meanwhile, we are paying this guy 100K a year to sit at a f*cking dole counter and hand out signing on cards, while there are 300 people in a queue in front of him without a job costing the state 56K a week!!!
We need to start calling this kind of insane bullsh*t for the selfish and state destroying absolute nonsense that it is. No more handy numbers for anyone, obtained on the basis of the nod and the wink, that's what has this country broke and enough is enough is what I say.
No need for that. As for not going into it you seem to go into it in a few threads I've seen you post on, your business failed and commiserations on that, nobody goes around calling the self employed and private sector failures because of businesses failing and the crash. Taking your bad experience out on the entire Public Sector isn't very smart either.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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you still can't seem to understand that,that garda has dealt with the public day in day out for the past 20-30 years,he knows and has investigative qualities which are essential in the dole office and public relations that no degree would give you he is the perfect person for a dole office job,i'm not saying that any public servant should be given a public servant job just because of they worked in the public service for example a carpentry teacher in Fás shouldn't be given a dole office job.In my opinion that garda would be a huge asset to the ground level social welfare staff and the public and a person who has a degree should never be picked over another person just because they have a degree and no experience,it all comes down to the best person suited for the job,which the garda was.
He'll be paying a huge amount of tax on his pension and wage too.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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you still can't seem to understand that,that garda has dealt with the public day in day out for the past 20-30 years,he knows and has investigative qualities which are essential in the dole office and public relations that no degree would give you he is the perfect person for a dole office job,i'm not saying that any public servant should be given a public servant job just because of they worked in the public service for example a carpentry teacher in Fás shouldn't be given a dole office job.In my opinion that garda would be a huge asset to the ground level social welfare staff and the public and a person who has a degree should never be picked over another person just because they have a degree and no experience,it all comes down to the best person suited for the job,which the garda was.
I never said anyone should be picked over, but there should be a priority on getting people who are unemployed, back into full time job roles. That is not possible when those kind of jobs are being reserved as handy numbers for the PS boyo's, and that is the only explanation that there can be here when here is a recruitment embargo on in the PS...
The same kind of nonsense bullsh*t is going on in the hospitals. A recruitment embargo in place and temp nursing agencies being paid 70K-100K a year to provide nursing cover, while we educate our own nurses for free and then export them 'cos we have no full-time positions for them, go figure!
We simply cannot afford as a state to be paying a Garda 50K a year for a pension, and then another 50K a year for a salary, when we have just shy of 500,000 people on the dole, surely one of whom is equally qualified for this low skill job, who is costing the state 30K a year, (10K in benefit payments and 20K in post taxes, VAT, PAYE, PRSI, USC,'s, etc)...
It's this mindset of notional entitlement in this country from PS workers that they have first refusal on these jobs that wrecks my head. It's an inbred and cult like type of extreme selfishness I think, a kind of class separation system that keeps certain types of jobs circulated amongst a particular class who have gotten far too used to these positions.0 -
i don't know where to start on you other than that your views are highly generalist and inaccurate.HellFireClub wrote: »I never said anyone should be picked over, but there should be a priority on getting people who are unemployed, back into full time job roles. That is not possible when those kind of jobs are being reserved as handy numbers for the PS boyo's, and that is the only explanation that there can be here when here is a recruitment embargo on in the PS...
The same kind of nonsense bullsh*t is going on in the hospitals. A recruitment embargo in place and temp nursing agencies being paid 70K-100K a year to provide nursing cover, while we educate our own nurses for free and then export them 'cos we have no full-time positions for them, go figure!
We simply cannot afford as a state to be paying a Garda 50K a year for a pension, and then another 50K a year for a salary, when we have just shy of 500,000 people on the dole, surely one of whom is equally qualified for this low skill job, who is costing the state 30K a year, (10K in benefit payments and 20K in post taxes, VAT, PAYE, PRSI, USC,'s, etc)...
It's this mindset of notional entitlement in this country from PS workers that they have first refusal on these jobs that wrecks my head. It's an inbred and cult like type of extreme selfishness I think, a kind of class separation system that keeps certain types of jobs circulated amongst a particular class who have gotten far too used to these positions.0 -
Ah right, read back there, I took it up wrong.
No need for that. As for not going into it you seem to go into it in a few threads I've seen you post on, your business failed and commiserations on that, nobody goes around calling the self employed and private sector failures because of businesses failing and the crash. Taking your bad experience out on the entire Public Sector isn't very smart either.
Yeah I post here regularly, I speak of my own honest and quite recent experiences and I make no apolgies for it.
My points on here are often grounded within my own recent experiences. When sales started taking a nosedive, it wasn't open to me to maintain my cost base as a business and just borrow without any ammendment into the future without adapting to new and very rapidly changing realities, and I was runinng what I considered was an efficient business.
Under no circumstances was it open to me to keep on staff that there was no work for or to allow people to dictate to me what the set up was going to be, and I don't see why it should be any different in a public sector workplace.
And as for the subject matter of this particular thread, people moaning because either they had lifestyle issues, or had made poor investment choices or both, I don't see why I sholud have been burdened by those issues to any extent when I was an private sector employer and I don't see why a public sector employer should be listening to those issues now either.0 -
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i don't know where to start on you other than that your views are highly generalist and inaccurate.
That's the same charge that every PS minded person lays against their accuser. The language that you guys speak is the language of procrastination and fudge. It is not within your ability to call a bullsh*t situation and set up, a bullsh*t situation and set up, unless that is, it can be used as some kind of a platform to argue for better terms & conditions.
Paying people on extremely generous state penions, recipients of 150K tax free lump sums, to do full time work while we are doing nothing to get people in unemployment, into full time jobs, it's a stupid policy and it's bullsh*t.
Of course you can't see it like that, because it would hit you in the pocket to see it like that and you are probably one of these gullies who comes on here whinging that they can't survive on a salary of 50K a year before expenses and allowances...0 -
i'm not in the public service,i'm in the private sector and speaking from a neutral view,please continueHellFireClub wrote: »That's the same charge that every PS minded person lays against their accuser. The language that you guys speak is the language of procrastination and fudge. It is not within your ability to call a bullsh*t situation and set up, a bullsh*t situation and set up, unless that is, it can be used as some kind of a platform to argue for better terms & conditions.
Paying people on extremely generous state penions, recipients of 150K tax free lump sums, to do full time work while we are doing nothing to get people in unemployment, into full time jobs, it's a stupid policy and it's bullsh*t.
Of course you can't see it like that, because it would hit you in the pocket to see it like that and you are probably one of these gullies who comes on here whinging that they can't survive on a salary of 50K a year before expenses and allowances...0 -
If they don't like the job they are in, they can get a job in the overpaid private sector!
Oh wait...:rolleyes:0 -
It points out that 120 gardaí did not receive any money in their pay cheques last January because once some of the standing order bills were paid and the extra taxes taken - there was nothing left.
small violin, sad song,
Im was in the same situation , so I drummed up more work and now I can just about get by0 -
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HellFireClub wrote: »That's the same charge that every PS minded person lays against their accuser. The language that you guys speak is the language of procrastination and fudge. It is not within your ability to call a bullsh*t situation and set up, a bullsh*t situation and set up, unless that is, it can be used as some kind of a platform to argue for better terms & conditions.
Paying people on extremely generous state penions, recipients of 150K tax free lump sums, to do full time work while we are doing nothing to get people in unemployment, into full time jobs, it's a stupid policy and it's bullsh*t.
Of course you can't see it like that, because it would hit you in the pocket to see it like that and you are probably one of these gullies who comes on here whinging that they can't survive on a salary of 50K a year before expenses and allowances...
Man you have serious issues, I'm sorry your business went down, but just because you worked hard and it didn't work out, doesn't mean that public servants don't work hard. You honestly can't really believe that all PS workers sit around doing nothing and then go collect massive amounts of money while laughing at people on the dole.
Also there is no policy to just hire PS pensioners into other PS jobs. It's not some sort of club where everyone helps each other out. PS reform is needed, but that doesn't mean that PS workers on the ground don't work hard at whatever they're doing. The very fact that you've had problems with PS with respect to your business shows that its the system that doesn't work not the people at the bottom trying to keep it all ticking over (with regard to civil servants).
Also remember public servants pay their taxes like everyone else so it's their service too, it really shouldn't be an 'us' and 'them' situation as conditions vary massively across the PS, from clerical officers who make just above the minimum wage to some lecturers paid super-salaries of €250,000+.
Also just as a point, I'd like to see you wrestle drunk scumbags out of a fight on a Saturday night and then say Guards are lazy procrastinators!0
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