Gardaí struggling to pay bills - AGSI

HellFireClub

Dudess wrote: »

He's not like that. Plus, he's not pushed about being a guard - went into it idealistically and is now disappointed. Same story with many I'd say.

I feel his pain but I think this is where we need to bring the whole PS thing back to... Which is that if you want to do the job for 5-10 years then give it a shot and if you don't like the pay, terms or conditions, then try something else. I worked in jobs in the past where I didn't like the set up and I hung around for too long and I learnt a valuable lesson, which is that if you are not happy somewhere, you owe it to yourself to leave and find greener pastures, wherever they might be and I know it isn't easy now to find work, nobody knows it better than me I can tell ye, but that's life, upwards and onwards...

Bosco boy

Dudess wrote: »

He's not like that. Plus, he's not pushed about being a guard - went into it idealistically and is now disappointed. Same story with many I'd say.

Most I know enjoy the job and are in it because it's what they want to do, There are sh1t times in it and you see a side of life most people will never come close to seeing and if they did there would be less sh1te out of them, but theres also a great sense of job satisfaction from being able to help people which mainly how I view my job, if money was my god I'd have gone into the private sector.

Dudess

HellFireClub wrote: »

if you are not happy somewhere, you owe it to yourself to leave and find greener pastures, wherever they might be and I know it isn't easy now to find work, nobody knows it better than me I can tell ye, but that's life, upwards and onwards...

Whether that's life or not, it's not an option to leave a full-time job at the moment - I think it would be very foolish, unless you were miserable to the point of your health being seriously affected.
I only mentioned the thing about that guy not liking being a guard to show how he's not one of those types for whom you can't say a word against the guards but they'll still whinge themselves.

HellFireClub

Dudess wrote: »

Whether that's life or not, it's not an option to leave a full-time job at the moment - I think it would be very foolish, unless you were miserable to the point of your health being seriously affected.
I only mentioned the thing about that guy not liking being a guard to show how he's not one of those types for whom you can't say a word against the guards but they'll still whinge themselves.

I agree but it's not an option for people in the private sector without any unions or negotiated collective agreements. At least a Garda who does overtime will get paid for it in accordance with the agreement of the day, they might not like the agreement but they will get paid according to it.

Not so in some private sector employments that I know of because the money simply isn't there to pay it...

sdanseo

snubbleste wrote: »

This comes up every single year at the Garda conferences..even during the boom. They are one of the highest paid police forces on the planet.
Anyone remember the 'union' billboarding the place with face photos of garda with bruises in order to either get higher pay or less cuts?

Bull****.

A Garda with 5 years service earns €40,163.33.

An NYPD cop is paid $95,000pa after 5 years, about €66,000.

A South Australian Senior Constable is paid c. $71,000pa (rank and file won't stay at the basic grade for as long so SC is a comparison to a Garda servicg ~ 5 years) - that's about €51,000.

A police officer in the Met (UK) earns about €37,000 after 2 years, presumably more after three additional years to meet my benchmark above.

If anything, Gardaí are very low paid in comparison to their foreign counterparts. The allowances and overtime, some will say, make up for it but these are paid in every police force. In fact the benefits in some UK forces are amazing - the met, for example, get free travel in the London Transport System, for the duration of their service. Anyone who buys an Irish Rail season ticket knows how much that alone can be worth.

I'm not a Garda, but I do hate Garda bashing. They are treated like **** by the department of Justice and it's about time people recognised that. Of all civil servants, they do the hardest job for mediocre pay considering an EO in the civil service (second lowest grade) earns about the same.

K-9

paddy0090 wrote: »

Hang on does the 40k include his 50% pension. I thought it said that 40k was the take home pay. Don't care about the pension levy, private sector has had benfits taxed since the days of McCreevy, PS got away with this because of the weasel ahern. Good to see you catching up!

Private sector rules on taxation apply to Public sector workers too, Pension contributions have generous tax relief, Private or Public Sector, they don't discriminate or do you have examples?

Benefit in kind applies to both sectors or do you have examples otherwise?

parsi

feelingstressed wrote: »

If you're constantly getting overtime you might adapt your lifestyle for it.

But overtime is being cut back a lot and some have to readjust

As said a few times in the thread there are a lot of gardai who are landlords and they might be in serious trouble with several proporties to manage.
With over 10,000 in the force, it's pretty certain there are a least a few in this situation.

If it falls apart and they go bankrupt, then they'll be removed and this might wreck their Garda pension too

It would be interesting to know how many Garda are landlords.

It would be interesting to know how many bwankers are still receiving subsidised loans to fund their investment properties.

HellFireClub

parsi wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how many Garda are landlords.

It would be interesting to know how many bwankers are still receiving subsidised loans to fund their investment properties.

You don't have to trawl too far to see the special arrangements in place!

http://www.gra.cc/ebs_mortgage_assistance.shtml#EBSMarch2011

Members Getting into Difficulty but not yet in Arrears - Update March 2011
Where a member is getting into difficulty in meeting EBS Mortgage Re-payments but is not yet in arrears they should print and complete the FINANCIAL STATEMENT (below) . This form is also available by contacting the retention team at tel. 1850 667 842. The completed Financial Statement form (including loan account numbers and mobile phone number) along with Bank, Income and Loan Statements should be returned to:
EBS Building Society, 2 Burlington Road, Dublin 4.

The Society will then contact the member to discuss the situation and review possible solutions that may include:
- Interest only periods
- Top-ups to cover the breakage cost from fixed to variable rates (subject to LTV of 85%)
- Extension of mortgage term to 35 years / or to 40 years, provided the mortgage will complete before the holder reaches age 70

PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE SPECIAL FACILITIES ARE ONLY AVAILABLE TO GRA MEMBERS

stoneill

And you can even threaten someone with rape without it being blasted all over the news - jasus what's this job coming to?

K-9

Banks are ditching fixed rates and wanting everybody to go on Variables.

Putting in big red lettering weakens your argument, it doesn't add to it, just makes you seem patronising, condescending and a know it all.

angelfire9

bonzos wrote: »

I am unemployed at the moment and I am sick to the teeth of gardai retiring in my local town who retire on a Friday get their lump sum, pension and muscle their way into jobs and start work the following Monday....Its a total disgrace that at a time when 450,000+ people are unemployed,fathers are working in London and flying home once a month to see their kids that this BS is going on!If you are lucky enough to have a job and need the money KEEP WORKING,dont retire,but if you want to retire fair enough put you feet up but dont push your way into a job because you fancy topping up your pension at a time when so many people are crying out for work!!!!

Not true there are set retirement ages!!

IRISHREDSTAR wrote: »

They get a tax free rent allowance which they use to pay their mortgage it's not a urban legend.

Circa €80 p.week will not pay a mortgage!

HellFireClub wrote: »

No, Gardai can get into debt just like the rest of us. They cannot be a Garda and be a bankrupt. Very few people are declared bankrupt in this state.

NO
They cannot get into debt it is nothing to do with bankrupcy!

Everyone’s suffering, of course, and there would be little sympathy for a Garda’s plight from those whose unemployment has meant owning a car at all was always a pipedream, but before you rush to judgment, bear in mind that a Garda has a particular duty the rest of us don’t: he or she is not allowed have debts they cannot repay, by law.
.....
He’s not allowed to juggle the bills and leave debts simmering or he might lose his job. .

Source:http://www.gra.cc/gardai_are_suffering_too_-_eve.shtml

HellFireClub wrote: »

Yeah, we'll certainly be cleaning up with the tax on the lump sum on retirement of 150K, taxable at a marvelous rate of 0%... How many hospital trollies will we be able to buy with that, zero is the answer.

Garda pensions are taxable
First 40k (approx) @20%
remainder @42%

Eric Cartman wrote: »

small violin, sad song,

Im was in the same situation , so I drummed up more work and now I can just about get by

Gardai dont have that option!

stoneill wrote: »

Who cares if it's 1% or 40% or 99% of Gardai cant pay bills.
That's their own fault. You live within your means.
If you can't afford it then don't buy it.
Did they join the force for the money or for the service?
If it was for the money then they are not the right people for the job.

Lets do a little calculation here guys so you can see what income we have in our household at present (my husband is a cop)
After 11 years service Gross Pay €46,602
Net Pay per week €565.31
Source: http://www.gra.cc/net_reductions_2008_-2011.shtml

Deductions from payslip (at source) WEEKLY
GRA Subscription €7.05
Life Assurance/ critical illness/ Life Cover €13.50
Garda & Clare Division Benevolent funds €3.76
Medical Aid (Health insurance) €62.33

Which leaves a Net Pay per week on the payslip of €478.67

Assuming a 4 week month this is €1914.70 per month
Monthly expenses:

Mortgage 700
Petrol 240 (60 per week in and out of work for hubby)
Electricity 100
Gas/Heating 100
Food 500 (feeding 2 Adults 2 kids (1 of which is a baby)

Balance per month is down to €274.00
Which (again assuming a 4 week month) is 68.67 per week

Per Annum Equivalent (52 weeks) €3570.84

Now I already hear ye saying that we are doing well to have that kind of money spare every year with all the household bills paid
BUT
Then there comes these little expenses:
Per ANNUM:
House Insurance 400
Car Insurance 400
Car Tax 470
Car Maintenance (1 service) 200
Car Tyres (1 set per year) 280
Non reimbursable Medical Expenses 840 (THIS IS FOR MEDICATION ONLY & ASSUMES ZERO DOCTORS & HOSPITAL VISITS)

These add up to €2590 per year

Which leaves our household with a surplus income of €980.84 or WOW a whole €18.86 per week

Now there are the other things that have to be paid
Christmas Presents for the eldest child
Clothing & Footwear for 2 children
School books & uniforms
These come out of the children's allowance

So in actual fact we live from hand to mouth EVERY WEEK

Neither my husband nor I have bought new clothes for ourselves in YEARS
We have not been on a holiday since our honeymoon
We both drive cars over 7 years old (04 Fiesta and 02Corolla)


His Net pay is down circa €100 per week from 2008 levels

So PLEASE don't tell me that ALL public servants are overpaid

And before any of ye come back saying that he gets overtime and allowances OT is GONE and not every one gets allowances (bar boot & rent and my husband goes through ALOT of shoes every year)

Bosco boy

What's that saying about arguing with fools "they just bring you down to their own level and then beat you with experience" Good night!

angelfire9

Bosco boy wrote: »

What's that saying about arguing with fools "they just bring you down to their own level and then beat you with experience" Good night!

Ditto

Bosco boy

angelfire9 wrote: »

Ditto

I wasn't refering to you

HellFireClub

K-9 wrote: »

Banks are ditching fixed rates and wanting everybody to go on Variables.

Putting in big red lettering weakens your argument, it doesn't add to it, just makes you seem patronising, condescending and a know it all.

The point I'm trying to make by highlighting the sentence, is: "why would these special arrangements be available to GRA members only???"

There's nothing patronising or condascending and all knowing about asking such a fundamental question? There are people out there who are not in secure, well pensioned roles who are not members of the GRA, are they getting the same degree of latitude I wonder in relation to their loan difficulties and in particular I wonder are they being extended top up facilities on a fixed rate loan to convert said loan to a variable rate loan?

It doesn't do the GRA argument any merit to be announcing that these are special arrangements available to GRA members only I think...

Offy

Aw the poor garda, sure why shouldnt they get a pay rise when everyone else is getting a pay cut, my heart bleeds for them.

Offy

HellFireClub wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make by highlighting the sentence, is: "why would these special arrangements be available to GRA members only???"

There's nothing patronising or condascending and all knowing about asking such a fundamental question? There are people out there who are not in secure, well pensioned roles who are not members of the GRA, are they getting the same degree of latitude I wonder in relation to their loan difficulties and in particular I wonder are they being extended top up facilities on a fixed rate loan to convert said loan to a variable rate loan?

It doesn't do the GRA argument any merit to be announcing that these are special arrangements available to GRA members only I think...

Give it up, they are to used to bullying people with threats to be able to offer any real argument.
Next thing we will here is 'Public order act.................'

Bosco boy

Offy wrote: »

Aw the poor garda, sure why shouldnt they get a pay rise when everyone else is getting a pay cut, my heart bleeds for them.

Oh! Now it's pay rise!

sillybird

Offy wrote: »

Aw the poor garda, sure why shouldnt they get a pay rise when everyone else is getting a pay cut, my heart bleeds for them.

If you read the press release they are not asking for a pay rise.

sillybird

HellFireClub wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make by highlighting the sentence, is: "why would these special arrangements be available to GRA members only???"

There's nothing patronising or condascending and all knowing about asking such a fundamental question? There are people out there who are not in secure, well pensioned roles who are not members of the GRA, are they getting the same degree of latitude I wonder in relation to their loan difficulties and in particular I wonder are they being extended top up facilities on a fixed rate loan to convert said loan to a variable rate loan?

It doesn't do the GRA argument any merit to be announcing that these are special arrangements available to GRA members only I think...

Ammm because its a Garda Credit Union??

Its well worth reading angelfire9 excellent post above.

Get over it. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Offy

sillybird wrote: »

If you read the press release they are not asking for a pay rise.

Yet, just wait for it! hey want 25M to protect the queen and the other twat from the states, they want better cars cos of the bad weather but what they want most of all is to realise they dont have the publics support nor will they have until such time as they treat the public with some respect when dealing with them. We pay yer wages after all.

HellFireClub

angelfire9 wrote: »

Garda pensions are taxable
First 40k (approx) @20%
remainder @42%

Em noooo, if you retire after 40 years service or in the case of Gardai, you can retire at 50, you are entitled to 1.5 times your final salary as a lump sum and that lump sum is tax free if I understand the source below correctly.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-pension-worth-836411m-1664588.html

K-9

Look the same argument was made in the 80's, when my Dad was paying 65% taxes and more on overtime, he was still begrudged his border duty. We didn't have medical cards or other perks like rent assistance or Mortgage Social Welfare payments, free bus passes, I'd to thumb lifts because we couldn't afford a bus pass.

I'd have sympathy for an argument of "where has the civic and public duty gone and it isn't just about pay". Unfortunately I never see that point on boards, it's all about what they get, not what an honour it is to serve the state and get the tricolour wrapped around the cascet.

My Dad had that honour. I suspect they'll all moan about "what where the Guards doing giving a guard of honour to an ex member", "should have been out catching criminals"

Somethings never change, boom or bust, some people know the price of everything, the value of nothing.

Offy

K-9 wrote: »

Look the same argument was made in the 80's, when my Dad was paying 65% taxes and more on overtime, he was still begrudged his border duty. We didn't have medical cards or other perks like rent assistance or Mortgage Social Welfare payments, free bus passes, I'd to thumb lifts because we couldn't afford a bus pass.

I'd have sympathy for an argument of "where has the civic and public duty gone and it isn't just about pay". Unfortunately I never see that point on boards, it's all about what they get, not what an honour it is to serve the state and get the tricolour wrapped around the cascet.

My Dad had that honour. I suspect they'll all moan about "what where the Guards doing giving a guard of honour to an ex member", "should have been out catching criminals"

Somethings never change, boom or bust, some people know the price of everything, the value of nothing.

They should be out catching criminals!

HellFireClub

sillybird wrote: »

Ammm because its a Garda Credit Union??

Its well worth reading angelfire9 excellent post above.

Get over it. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just not listening to people in highly secure positions on very well paid salaries and allowances, claiming that they are being screwed, when I personally know of some folks in the private sector who are doing up to 5-8 hours a week for free, without hope of overtime, because their boss needs them in on Saturday or to get through stuff from home in the evenings or out of hour meetings just to keep the doors open.

At least when a Garda does overtime, it gets paid and paid well.

K-9

Offy wrote: »

They should be out catching criminals!

I'll give you a pass, that was funny!

K-9

Offy wrote: »

They should be out catching criminals!

On a serious note I think the respect has been lost, on both sides. A reflection of the celtic tiger and the bubble and it's sad.

Guards and Public Servants were not that well paid but overall respected. They seeked to be benchmarked and get comparable pay to the private sector and hey presto! Money doesn't buy you respect, it's intangible!

sillybird

Offy wrote: »

Yet, just wait for it! hey want 25M to protect the queen and the other twat from the states, they want better cars cos of the bad weather but what they want most of all is to realise they dont have the publics support nor will they have until such time as they treat the public with some respect when dealing with them. We pay yer wages after all.

Firstly I'm not a Garda. Wake up and get real. You've obviously had a run in with a cop in the past and venting your anger. Do you honestly think its your normal everyday cop that will be asking for money to protect the Queen etc. Blame the Dpt of Justice etc. The majority do a good job at protecting and serving our communities.
I know I'd certainly love to have a job in the PS!! wouldn't you FFS. Then I'd like to see you post about bashing the PS when you have worked in it.

I think your in the minority in saying that the Garda don't have public support. Why don't you respect the Garda? Because they are getting paid too much?? No need to paint them all with the same brush.

Over and out...

HellFireClub

angelfire9 wrote: »

Not true there are set retirement ages!!



Circa €80 p.week will not pay a mortgage!


NO
They cannot get into debt it is nothing to do with bankrupcy!


Source:http://www.gra.cc/gardai_are_suffering_too_-_eve.shtml


Garda pensions are taxable
First 40k (approx) @20%
remainder @42%


Gardai dont have that option!



Lets do a little calculation here guys so you can see what income we have in our household at present (my husband is a cop)
After 11 years service Gross Pay €46,602
Net Pay per week €565.31
Source: http://www.gra.cc/net_reductions_2008_-2011.shtml

Deductions from payslip (at source) WEEKLY
GRA Subscription €7.05
Life Assurance/ critical illness/ Life Cover €13.50
Garda & Clare Division Benevolent funds €3.76
Medical Aid (Health insurance) €62.33

Which leaves a Net Pay per week on the payslip of €478.67

Assuming a 4 week month this is €1914.70 per month
Monthly expenses:

Mortgage 700
Petrol 240 (60 per week in and out of work for hubby)
Electricity 100
Gas/Heating 100
Food 500 (feeding 2 Adults 2 kids (1 of which is a baby)

Balance per month is down to €274.00
Which (again assuming a 4 week month) is 68.67 per week

Per Annum Equivalent (52 weeks) €3570.84

Now I already hear ye saying that we are doing well to have that kind of money spare every year with all the household bills paid
BUT
Then there comes these little expenses:
Per ANNUM:
House Insurance 400
Car Insurance 400
Car Tax 470
Car Maintenance (1 service) 200
Car Tyres (1 set per year) 280
Non reimbursable Medical Expenses 840 (THIS IS FOR MEDICATION ONLY & ASSUMES ZERO DOCTORS & HOSPITAL VISITS)

These add up to €2590 per year

Which leaves our household with a surplus income of €980.84 or WOW a whole €18.86 per week

Now there are the other things that have to be paid
Christmas Presents for the eldest child
Clothing & Footwear for 2 children
School books & uniforms
These come out of the children's allowance

So in actual fact we live from hand to mouth EVERY WEEK

Neither my husband nor I have bought new clothes for ourselves in YEARS
We have not been on a holiday since our honeymoon
We both drive cars over 7 years old (04 Fiesta and 02Corolla)


His Net pay is down circa €100 per week from 2008 levels

So PLEASE don't tell me that ALL public servants are overpaid

And before any of ye come back saying that he gets overtime and allowances OT is GONE and not every one gets allowances (bar boot & rent and my husband goes through ALOT of shoes every year)

But the rent allowance which is tax free is a very generous 4,162.48 Euro a year, which is 346.87 Euro a month. I appreciate you sharing your figures with us, but you are not experiencing anything that other folks living within a single income environment are not also experiencing.

It seems to me yet again that the Gardai are trying to make the case for them to be sufficiently paid so that only one of the parents/couple has to work. That isn't the case for any other couple who are living on one average industrial wage, so why should it be the case that Gardai get paid better so that the rule of thumb that we have in this country which seems to be that if you have a family you need two parents working, why should Gardai be exempt from this, which is the norm for all other couples I know where there isn't an exceptional circumstance such as for example a high earner such as a GP, solicitor or a hospital consultant out earning the crust for the family???

Offy

sillybird wrote: »

Firstly I'm not a Garda. Wake up and get real. You've obviously had a run in with a cop in the past and venting your anger. Do you honestly think its your normal everyday cop that will be asking for money to protect the Queen etc. Blame the Dpt of Justice etc. The majority do a good job at protecting and serving our communities.
I know I'd certainly love to have a job in the PS!! wouldn't you FFS. Then I'd like to see you post about bashing the PS when you have worked in it.

I think your in the minority in saying that the Garda don't have public support. Why don't you respect the Garda? Because they are getting paid too much?? No need to paint them all with the same brush.

Over and out...

I could not disagree more! I blame the cops that beat up our students for protesting. I blame ......ah to tell the truth I dont give a toss, they earn a moderate income and so what if 1% cant manage their income? Who other than that 1% cares? I certainly dont. But really they are overpaid and they do provide a crap service most of the time cos they dont give a crap themselves. Thats Irelands problem, nobody really gives a crap, no wonder we're going down the crapper, everythings crap!!! Crap pay. Crap interest rates. Crap HSE. Crap government. Crap IMF. Crap weather. Crap crap crap but I still love it keep moaning Ireland, thats the way to go!!!!!!